Do Countries Like Denmark Show That Socialism Works ?

Dawnhammer · Nov 19, 2017

brinny said:
i think i know what you mean...

Doubtful.....last thread I said I was looking forward to reading your post mortem memoirs as soon as possible...and you thought it was a compliment.

Kind of says it all.

brinny · Nov 19, 2017

Dawnhammer said:
Doubtful.....last thread I said I was looking forward to reading your post mortem memoirs as soon as possible...and you thought it was a compliment.

Kind of says it all.

Thank you. I appreciate you thinking of me.

I really should start that fan club.

Larniavc · Nov 19, 2017

Ygrene Imref said:
That is why you have to be Perfect in order to run the most perfect, idealized government system.

The leader would have to be genuinely humble, gracious, patient, just, loving, caring, etc. in order to make sure the State was running justly and optimally, as well as stay so humble as to not "scrape some off the top," as it were.

So, like Jesus?

High Fidelity · Nov 19, 2017

Certain countries are socialistic in nature and the Scandinavian countries are an example of that.

However, it is worth stating the painfully obvious for those that miss the point(wilfully or otherwise) that no, obviously Denmark is not 100% socialist just as the United States is not 100% capitalist.

A blend between the two is very common but in many countries, certain policies that many would consider socialist are more prevalent.

Most people claim they're socialist in a synonymous manner equally reflective of most people referring to the U.S. as capitalist.

rturner76 · Nov 19, 2017

High Fidelity said:
Certain countries are socialistic in nature and the Scandinavian countries are an example of that.

However, it is worth stating the painfully obvious for those that miss the point(wilfully or otherwise) that no, obviously Denmark is not 100% socialist just as the United States is not 100% capitalist.

A blend between the two is very common but in many countries, certain policies that many would consider socialist are more prevalent.

Most people claim they're socialist in a synonymous manner equally reflective of most people referring to the U.S. as capitalist.

You are so right. There is a difference between having "some socialized systems" which even the USA has (Social Security/SNAP) and being a Socialist Nation (the old USSR, no ownership of private property/no private business)

OldWiseGuy · Nov 19, 2017

rturner76 said:
You are so right. There is a difference between having "some socialized systems" which even the USA has (Social Security/SNAP) and being a Socialist Nation (the old USSR, no ownership of private property/no private business)

"Socially conscious" would better describe those countries.

Ygrene Imref · Nov 19, 2017

brinny said:
You mean like in Venezuela and Cuba, for instance?

Yes.

However, Western cultured nations dependent on Capitalism will fail also - those types of countries usually try to evade the inevitable by artificially inflating markets, corrections, encouraging consumers to put all their money into the market, and war.

I am not only talking about the States. Any capitalist country will also fail (albeit not as fast as the paradigm shift to socialism fails, perhaps.)

Ygrene Imref · Nov 19, 2017

Larnievc said:
So, like Jesus?

I was trying to allude to this LONG ago with what I thought was "obvious subtlely."

Every earthly system would fail without a Perfect Leader(ship), and I said "leader(ship)" needs to be perfect because, in the case of Christ He will also have entities in leadership roles of entire nations. They also have to be perfect.

The complexity of demand for perfection in leadership is what makes idealized systems like socialism and communism impossible for corruptible creatures - even if the leader is "good." Every step down the chain of command exponentiates the possibility of uncontrollable corruption.

Idealised systems also require a mature society - one that would consider the needs of the "community" rather than self. I know we like to think we are selfless, but the world as a whole (or, a nation) certainly isn't ready to be as selfless as needed to yield a successful idealized system.

brinny · Nov 19, 2017

Ygrene Imref said:
Yes.

However, Western cultured nations dependent on Capitalism will fail also - those types of countries usually try to evade the inevitable by artificially inflating markets, corrections, encouraging consumers to put all their money into the market, and war.

I am not only talking about the States. Any capitalist country will also fail (albeit not as fast as the paradigm shift to socialism fails, perhaps.)

Speaking of Socialism:

Ygrene Imref · Nov 19, 2017

brinny said:
Speaking of Socialism:

I dont have to watch this video to know why it failed.

Humans were in control. Socialism and communism is idealized; you need an idealized leader (read: perfect) for it to work.

Then, that leader(ship) needs to be awesomely perfect to prosper.

brinny · Nov 19, 2017

Ygrene Imref said:
I dont have to watch this video to know why it failed.

Humans were in control. Socialism and communism is idealized; you need an idealized leader (read: perfect) for it to work.

Then, that leader(ship) needs to be awesomely perfect to prosper.

The guy in the video is speaking of his country and how socialism destroyed it.

Ygrene Imref · Nov 19, 2017

brinny said:
The guy in the video is speaking of his country and how socialism destroyed it.

I know, precisely because of my thesis: socialism and communism - and any other idealized system for the people - will undoubtedly fail because it requires a perfect leader(ship), and so far there is only one perfect Human alive.

It doesn't matter what country it is, or who its people are. All systems end in corruption and vanity. The only reason capitalism does so well is because it is a selfish economy focused on capital alone, and that feeds the beast(s) primal human psychology (ego, pride and greed to name a few.) It is easier to do for self than to do for others all of the time.

If you name any more situations/countries/people, it will be the same thing. I am not sure what your purpose is.

Larniavc · Nov 20, 2017

Ygrene Imref said:
I know, precisely because of my thesis: socialism and communism - and any other idealized system for the people - will undoubtedly fail because it requires a perfect leader(ship), and so far there is only one perfect Human alive.

It doesn't matter what country it is, or who its people are. All systems end in corruption and vanity. The only reason capitalism does so well is because it is a selfish economy focused on capital alone, and that feeds the beast(s) primal human psychology (ego, pride and greed to name a few.) It is easier to do for self than to do for others all of the time.

If you name any more situations/countries/people, it will be the same thing. I am not sure what your purpose is.

I agree.

brinny · Nov 20, 2017

brinny said: ↑
The guy in the video is speaking of his country and how socialism destroyed it.

Ygrene Imref said:
I know, precisely because of my thesis: socialism and communism - and any other idealized system for the people - will undoubtedly fail because it requires a perfect leader(ship), and so far there is only one perfect Human alive.

It doesn't matter what country it is, or who its people are. All systems end in corruption and vanity. The only reason capitalism does so well is because it is a selfish economy focused on capital alone, and that feeds the beast(s) primal human psychology (ego, pride and greed to name a few.) It is easier to do for self than to do for others all of the time.

If you name any more situations/countries/people, it will be the same thing. I am not sure what your purpose is.

i disagree. As stated in the title, it invites varying views as to whether socialism is ever a "good" or "positive" thing, according to those who have witnessed it, and have a point of view about it. And their views are certainly warranted and certainly should be allowed.

Ygrene Imref · Nov 20, 2017

brinny said:
i disagree. As stated in the title, it invites varying views as to whether socialism is ever a "good" or "positive" thing, according to those who have witnessed it, and have a point of view about it. And their views are certainly warranted and certainly should be allowed.

Well certainly you have a point in that respect; that is a microcosmic view of Socialism. Every human's opinion matters - except when it doesn't. Everyone has a truth - until confronting the truth.

Even bigotry, ignorance and racism works on a microcosmic level.

But, on the whole socialism and/or communism will never work stand alone unless the leader(ship) is perfect. Failure is always inevitable. Most socialist or communist nations are not 100% that, and they incorporate some measure of Capitalism. In fact, I would say if nations are capitalist, they are a monarchy - which is just royal capitalism projected onto the citizens as two-sided wealth system.

brinny · Nov 20, 2017

Ygrene Imref said:
Well certainly you have a point in that respect; that is a microcosmic view of Socialism. Every human's opinion matters - except when it doesn't. Everyone has a truth - until confronting the truth.

Even bigotry, ignorance and racism works on a microcosmic level.

But, on the whole socialism and/or communism will never work stand alone unless the leader(ship) is perfect. Failure is always inevitable. Most socialist or communist nations are not 100% that, and they incorporate some measure of Capitalism. In fact, I would say if nations are capitalist, they are a monarchy - which is just royal capitalism projected onto the citizens as two-sided wealth system.

Thank you for your response, however i'm not clear regarding how it relates to my post.

Nevertheless, thank you for responding.

Janice Orbi · Oct 15, 2018

Ygrene Imref said:
I would respectfully, but vehemently disagree - unless I misunderstand you.

The goal of Columbian and Western capitalistic success is being rich (read: being well off enough to not have to work.) That is because no one wants to be a slave - which is what anyone who has to work to gain resources is; no one wants to work for a living unless they like what they do (which, then is not psychological/literal slavery.) Capitalism gets people to agree to willingly become slaves to mammon again - as capitalism is about gaining more capital. In exchange, you are afforded services and securities in case anything should happen to prevent you from contributing your work to create capital.

This grotesque, draconian logic is a distortion guidelines God gave the Hebrews on how to treat slaves. No American or Western "consumer," for example, is released from debt after 7 years, or 50 years.

Therefore, people work to try to get out of debt, and have just enough resources to survive without being a slave (ebed). The sorcery is that after consumers were convinced to have currency overseen by a private entity, the right to determine the worth of currency fell out of the hands of the people and went into the hands of a few.

Well then I suppose both capitalism and socialism and communism you also would be slaves because is each of those societies you have to work.

SolomonVII · Oct 15, 2018

Janice Orbi said:
Well then I suppose both capitalism and socialism and communism you also would be slaves because is each of those societies you have to work.

Maybe a big reason that the Scandinavian systems have had some success is because that culture installs values about work being a privilege rather than slavery.
Nobody has to work in a system where the taxpayer is going to keep everyone comfortable.
Taxpayers only become slaves when people don’t share common values about work, and live off of the toil of the taxpayer as they pursue their own interests without sharing in the work.

Janice Orbi · Oct 15, 2018

I was just trying to point out that working does not make you a slave. At least that is how I view it.

Do Countries Like Denmark Show That Socialism Works ?

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