I don't feel safe at my church anymore

snowgirl14

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My husband and I have attended the same church since we moved here after graduating college. It's not only our spiritual home, but many of our friends attend as well. Amyway, we had the same pastor until last Spring when he got a job offer he couldn't refuse. It did not take us too long to find a new one and he's been...ok. He's a great speaker, but sometimes gets a bit too political ( he's never formally endorsed anyone or any policy from the pulpit). Yesterday, he preached the most disturbing sermon I have ever heard...

We have been going through a series on the ten commandments, and yesterday was on lying/bearing false witness. Instead of the focus of the sermon being about the lies we tell everyday and all, his focus was about how this is becoming not only the norm, but celebrated in our society. He then went on for about 20 minutes about the sexual assault and rape accusations women are making against "nobel men like Brett Kavanaugh to smear their reputations and upheave the Biblical value of male headship." He then said at another point "the #metoo movement celebrates and encourages lying." The most disturbing part about all of this was at the end when he said "moral, modest, Christian women do not have to be concerned about being raped. I was appalled! I spent the entire time squirming in my seat, and almost walked out. I looked around to see if anyone did, and nobody did. My best friend was raped in college, I could think of nothing yesterday other than the memories of coming home to her crying.

After church, we went to lunch as we always do with our friends. I asked the other the women if they were just as appalled, we've all received at least persistant unwanted attention from men. Their response indicated otherwise, though one texted me afterward saying she understood and got where I was coming from but "It was a challenging sermon to women, but remember God heals scars and it's our duty to trust and submit." I talked to my husband about it when we got home and while he was sympathetic at first, my best friend came up (he was there) and he said "Well, she's not entirely innocent, she had been drinking and wearing a revealing outfit." I couldn't believe it! I've known him and we've been together since high school, and he's incredibly respectful. He did apologize later and said his "guy brain" just took over for a second, and volunteered to sleep on the couch to give me space.

I emailed my church elders my concerns. One just replied "Thank you for your telling us your concerns." Another replied, "A good sermon is supposed to make us feel uncomfortable," and "Perhaps God was convicting me for something in my past, and I was misunderstanding. I should talk to my husband, it's his duty to spiritually guide me." I don't know what to do or where to go anymore. I don't feel comfortable or even safe going to my church knowing those are my pastor's views, and everyone so far is defending him.
 

Mountainmanbob

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Being as all of us not perfect your pastor may repent from that message in the coming days?

Good pastors preach straight from the Bible and don't get hung up in these things of our world.

Preferred --
Expository preaching.
As found in many reformed churches.

M-Bob
 
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Tolworth John

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I don't feel comfortable or even safe going to my church knowing those are my pastor's views, and everyone so far is defending him.

I think your best course of action is to talk this over with your husband and then o talk to the minister.

In the past women who were raped were not believed, now any claim of rape is believed.

There has to be an evaluation of the evidence before charges are brought and both parties need to be protected untill a court has decided on the evidence.

In todays overly sexualised world women are seen as available by some men and they will pick on any women, modestly dressed or not.

So do express your concerns to your minister.
 
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Kerensa

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I'm so sorry to hear this, friend. I wouldn't be at all comfortable having a pastor who aired those views in church either.

I personally would consider another church too, if this were my situation. But I can't tell you what would be the right answer in your circumstances, and really, neither can any other person — I think it's something you will need to take to God in prayer. It isn't your husband's duty to spiritually guide you, or your pastor's, or your friends' — you have your own direct connection to God, as His beloved child, and you can trust Him to show you what is the truly right thing to do in this instance.

God bless :glowingstar:
 
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RDKirk

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Time to consider another church.

There were two problems. One is spending time making the Kavanaugh issue a Body of Christ issue...which it is not.

The other is making the Ford issue a Body of Christ issue...which it is not.

If the pastor had something to say about modesty or submission or anything else like that, it should have been based on scripture (if it could be), not on news headlines.

It also needs to be understood by American pastors that the Body of Christ is not confined to America. What is gospel in one place is gospel in another, what is instruction to the Body in one place is identical instruction to the Body in another.

Your pastor is clearly unaware of Christian women being raped in places like Pakistan --regardless of the fact that they are covered from head to toe--and then prosecuted for having provoked "good Muslim men."
 
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Dave L

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My husband and I have attended the same church since we moved here after graduating college. It's not only our spiritual home, but many of our friends attend as well. Amyway, we had the same pastor until last Spring when he got a job offer he couldn't refuse. It did not take us too long to find a new one and he's been...ok. He's a great speaker, but sometimes gets a bit too political ( he's never formally endorsed anyone or any policy from the pulpit). Yesterday, he preached the most disturbing sermon I have ever heard...

We have been going through a series on the ten commandments, and yesterday was on lying/bearing false witness. Instead of the focus of the sermon being about the lies we tell everyday and all, his focus was about how this is becoming not only the norm, but celebrated in our society. He then went on for about 20 minutes about the sexual assault and rape accusations women are making against "nobel men like Brett Kavanaugh to smear their reputations and upheave the Biblical value of male headship." He then said at another point "the #metoo movement celebrates and encourages lying." The most disturbing part about all of this was at the end when he said "moral, modest, Christian women do not have to be concerned about being raped. I was appalled! I spent the entire time squirming in my seat, and almost walked out. I looked around to see if anyone did, and nobody did. My best friend was raped in college, I could think of nothing yesterday other than the memories of coming home to her crying.

After church, we went to lunch as we always do with our friends. I asked the other the women if they were just as appalled, we've all received at least persistant unwanted attention from men. Their response indicated otherwise, though one texted me afterward saying she understood and got where I was coming from but "It was a challenging sermon to women, but remember God heals scars and it's our duty to trust and submit." I talked to my husband about it when we got home and while he was sympathetic at first, my best friend came up (he was there) and he said "Well, she's not entirely innocent, she had been drinking and wearing a revealing outfit." I couldn't believe it! I've known him and we've been together since high school, and he's incredibly respectful. He did apologize later and said his "guy brain" just took over for a second, and volunteered to sleep on the couch to give me space.

I emailed my church elders my concerns. One just replied "Thank you for your telling us your concerns." Another replied, "A good sermon is supposed to make us feel uncomfortable," and "Perhaps God was convicting me for something in my past, and I was misunderstanding. I should talk to my husband, it's his duty to spiritually guide me." I don't know what to do or where to go anymore. I don't feel comfortable or even safe going to my church knowing those are my pastor's views, and everyone so far is defending him.
I always avoid churches with political bias. “They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.” (1 John 4:5)
 
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Mountainmanbob

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In a church with good church discipline it is the elders job to keep an eye on the pastor and when he steps out of line to let him know it.
M-Bob
 
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I think that when he said that "moral, modest Christian women do not need to be concerned about being raped", it would have been time to stand up, walk out of the church and never return.
 
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snowgirl14

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I think your best course of action is to talk this over with your husband and then o talk to the minister.

In the past women who were raped were not believed, now any claim of rape is believed.

There has to be an evaluation of the evidence before charges are brought and both parties need to be protected untill a court has decided on the evidence.

In todays overly sexualised world women are seen as available by some men and they will pick on any women, modestly dressed or not.

So do express your concerns to your minister.

My husband did tell me it's okay if I need to step away for a time, and he'll let me know on Sunday if anything is said. He did concede that last quoted statement flirted a line.
 
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timewerx

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Pastors who preach like that have abandoned sound reasoning and must be ignored.

Tell your husband to stop going to that church either. Ignorance and false teaching is contagious and that's not a joke, nor overstatement.
 
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DW1980

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My husband and I have attended the same church since we moved here after graduating college. It's not only our spiritual home, but many of our friends attend as well. Amyway, we had the same pastor until last Spring when he got a job offer he couldn't refuse. It did not take us too long to find a new one and he's been...ok. He's a great speaker, but sometimes gets a bit too political ( he's never formally endorsed anyone or any policy from the pulpit). Yesterday, he preached the most disturbing sermon I have ever heard...

We have been going through a series on the ten commandments, and yesterday was on lying/bearing false witness. Instead of the focus of the sermon being about the lies we tell everyday and all, his focus was about how this is becoming not only the norm, but celebrated in our society. He then went on for about 20 minutes about the sexual assault and rape accusations women are making against "nobel men like Brett Kavanaugh to smear their reputations and upheave the Biblical value of male headship." He then said at another point "the #metoo movement celebrates and encourages lying." The most disturbing part about all of this was at the end when he said "moral, modest, Christian women do not have to be concerned about being raped. I was appalled! I spent the entire time squirming in my seat, and almost walked out. I looked around to see if anyone did, and nobody did. My best friend was raped in college, I could think of nothing yesterday other than the memories of coming home to her crying.

After church, we went to lunch as we always do with our friends. I asked the other the women if they were just as appalled, we've all received at least persistant unwanted attention from men. Their response indicated otherwise, though one texted me afterward saying she understood and got where I was coming from but "It was a challenging sermon to women, but remember God heals scars and it's our duty to trust and submit." I talked to my husband about it when we got home and while he was sympathetic at first, my best friend came up (he was there) and he said "Well, she's not entirely innocent, she had been drinking and wearing a revealing outfit." I couldn't believe it! I've known him and we've been together since high school, and he's incredibly respectful. He did apologize later and said his "guy brain" just took over for a second, and volunteered to sleep on the couch to give me space.

I emailed my church elders my concerns. One just replied "Thank you for your telling us your concerns." Another replied, "A good sermon is supposed to make us feel uncomfortable," and "Perhaps God was convicting me for something in my past, and I was misunderstanding. I should talk to my husband, it's his duty to spiritually guide me." I don't know what to do or where to go anymore. I don't feel comfortable or even safe going to my church knowing those are my pastor's views, and everyone so far is defending him.

I am so sorry to hear this. I don't know your pastor (obviously!) but I would be looking for a new Church immediately. Dismissing your concerns as "your issue" is wrong, and suggesting that "modest" women are at no risk of rape shows a shocking lack of understanding of the issues, and I would suggest a shocking lack of pastoral care. How does he know these issues don't directly affect his congregation? Did he consider the impact of his words on women (and men!) who have been raped, or the victims of violence. I wonder if he would feel the same about male rape? Is he aware that 16% of men have been the victims of domestic violence? Or would he just dismiss that too? (sometimes it helps to re-frame an issue - in this case, the gendered issues detracting from the violence committed).

Your husband apologised, so I would suggest talking through your feelings with him, and if your best friend is ok with it, would she be willing to talk about her experience to your husband? I think that would be an amazing way for him to understand, and if she is up to it, gives her one small positive from that horrific ordeal.

If the elders and pastor cannot see what's wrong with this, then I would suggest as difficult as it can be, it may be time to move on.

Praying for you :)
 
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snowgirl14

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Incorrect. Women lying have ruined so many innocent men. You are clearly missing the pastor's point.

1 in 3 American women have been sexually assaulted or raped. If you don't know any women who have, it's because none of them have opened up to you. In my own relationships, I'd say that holds up; whereas I've know guy I know, nor do they though, anyone who has been falsely accused. Regardless, I'm not here to debate.
 
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snowgirl14

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I don't think she does. If my guess is right(and I think it is) she probably misquoted and twisted what the pastor said to make him sound awful. Typical thing people do today.

Nope. I quoted verbatim. I'm very auditory.
 
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Phil 1:21

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The most disturbing part about all of this was at the end when he said "moral, modest, Christian women do not have to be concerned about being raped.

Incorrect. Women lying have ruined so many innocent men. You are clearly missing the pastor's point.
Assuming the above bolded quote is correct (and we have no reason to think otherwise), what exactly do you think the pastor's point was in stating this?
 
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JoeP222w

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My husband and I have attended the same church since we moved here after graduating college. It's not only our spiritual home, but many of our friends attend as well. Amyway, we had the same pastor until last Spring when he got a job offer he couldn't refuse. It did not take us too long to find a new one and he's been...ok. He's a great speaker, but sometimes gets a bit too political ( he's never formally endorsed anyone or any policy from the pulpit). Yesterday, he preached the most disturbing sermon I have ever heard...

We have been going through a series on the ten commandments, and yesterday was on lying/bearing false witness. Instead of the focus of the sermon being about the lies we tell everyday and all, his focus was about how this is becoming not only the norm, but celebrated in our society. He then went on for about 20 minutes about the sexual assault and rape accusations women are making against "nobel men like Brett Kavanaugh to smear their reputations and upheave the Biblical value of male headship." He then said at another point "the #metoo movement celebrates and encourages lying." The most disturbing part about all of this was at the end when he said "moral, modest, Christian women do not have to be concerned about being raped. I was appalled! I spent the entire time squirming in my seat, and almost walked out. I looked around to see if anyone did, and nobody did. My best friend was raped in college, I could think of nothing yesterday other than the memories of coming home to her crying.

After church, we went to lunch as we always do with our friends. I asked the other the women if they were just as appalled, we've all received at least persistant unwanted attention from men. Their response indicated otherwise, though one texted me afterward saying she understood and got where I was coming from but "It was a challenging sermon to women, but remember God heals scars and it's our duty to trust and submit." I talked to my husband about it when we got home and while he was sympathetic at first, my best friend came up (he was there) and he said "Well, she's not entirely innocent, she had been drinking and wearing a revealing outfit." I couldn't believe it! I've known him and we've been together since high school, and he's incredibly respectful. He did apologize later and said his "guy brain" just took over for a second, and volunteered to sleep on the couch to give me space.

I emailed my church elders my concerns. One just replied "Thank you for your telling us your concerns." Another replied, "A good sermon is supposed to make us feel uncomfortable," and "Perhaps God was convicting me for something in my past, and I was misunderstanding. I should talk to my husband, it's his duty to spiritually guide me." I don't know what to do or where to go anymore. I don't feel comfortable or even safe going to my church knowing those are my pastor's views, and everyone so far is defending him.

You need to talk with your husband and you need to schedule an appointment with the Pastor and/or
Elders. This is not something to be discussed through email as email messages are far too often misinterpreted and misunderstood.

Be prepared to back up your concerns Biblically with humility, working alongside your husband.

If you can back up your issues Biblically, and your Pastors and/or Elders refuse to turn from an unbiblical view, it is time to find a new church.

The Bible gives no precedence for leaving a church if you don't like the message. However, if a church and it's leadership is proclaiming an unbiblical view and refuses to repent of it after being graciously and humbly challenged, it is time to leave that church, because they are leaving biblical doctrine.
 
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LoricaLady

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My husband and I have attended the same church since we moved here after graduating college. It's not only our spiritual home, but many of our friends attend as well. Amyway, we had the same pastor until last Spring when he got a job offer he couldn't refuse. It did not take us too long to find a new one and he's been...ok. He's a great speaker, but sometimes gets a bit too political ( he's never formally endorsed anyone or any policy from the pulpit). Yesterday, he preached the most disturbing sermon I have ever heard...

We have been going through a series on the ten commandments, and yesterday was on lying/bearing false witness. Instead of the focus of the sermon being about the lies we tell everyday and all, his focus was about how this is becoming not only the norm, but celebrated in our society. He then went on for about 20 minutes about the sexual assault and rape accusations women are making against "nobel men like Brett Kavanaugh to smear their reputations and upheave the Biblical value of male headship." He then said at another point "the #metoo movement celebrates and encourages lying." The most disturbing part about all of this was at the end when he said "moral, modest, Christian women do not have to be concerned about being raped. I was appalled! I spent the entire time squirming in my seat, and almost walked out. I looked around to see if anyone did, and nobody did. My best friend was raped in college, I could think of nothing yesterday other than the memories of coming home to her crying.

After church, we went to lunch as we always do with our friends. I asked the other the women if they were just as appalled, we've all received at least persistant unwanted attention from men. Their response indicated otherwise, though one texted me afterward saying she understood and got where I was coming from but "It was a challenging sermon to women, but remember God heals scars and it's our duty to trust and submit." I talked to my husband about it when we got home and while he was sympathetic at first, my best friend came up (he was there) and he said "Well, she's not entirely innocent, she had been drinking and wearing a revealing outfit." I couldn't believe it! I've known him and we've been together since high school, and he's incredibly respectful. He did apologize later and said his "guy brain" just took over for a second, and volunteered to sleep on the couch to give me space.

I emailed my church elders my concerns. One just replied "Thank you for your telling us your concerns." Another replied, "A good sermon is supposed to make us feel uncomfortable," and "Perhaps God was convicting me for something in my past, and I was misunderstanding. I should talk to my husband, it's his duty to spiritually guide me." I don't know what to do or where to go anymore. I don't feel comfortable or even safe going to my church knowing those are my pastor's views, and everyone so far is defending him.
I think the sermon's content was outrageous. It seems, frankly, to be promoting an atmosphere where any victimized women will feel too intimidated, and bullied, to want to speak up. I would say get out of that Church ASAP and would certainly avoid any private moments with that Pastor and those who are supporting him.

There was no reason for him to even go over the senate hearings. It was a put down to women. Period.
 
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