Why a literal 1,000 years?

mmksparbud · Oct 13, 2018

DavidPT said:
Why would anyone need to reign in heaven a thousand years? To do and accomplish exactly what? Also, does this mean in heaven they view time the same way we do on earth? After all, years have to do with earthly matters. Check out Genesis 1 again. Before the beginning meant there, there apparently was no such thing as years which are derived from 24 hour days.

1Co_6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

We won't be judging the good angels, obviously, just the evil ones. Not that we decide what their judgement is--God does that. But we all have the opportunity to view the books of those that are lost. There are going to be people in heaven that you are going to wonder how they got there, and there are those you were sure would be there and aren't. Such as why is your Sainted aunt Bertha not there but that weird Uncle Fred is when you thought it would be the other way around. I would definitely want to know why my Aunt isn't there--What about Stephen--when he sees Paul up there? He'll freak! If Mothrr Theresa isn't there--I want to know why not! We get to review the judgements of God and be fully in agreement with those judgements.
No time is not important in heaven. Not necessarily because there is none--but it doesn't matter. However--God has His timing for everything. And when He sets a time--that is it. God is very precise about everything He does. Everything about creation was set in time. All prophecies are timed. He has His own special wristwatch!

BABerean2 · Oct 13, 2018

mmksparbud said:
We won't be judging the good angels, obviously, just the evil ones.

2Pe_2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

Jud_1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

Rev 11:15 Then the seventh angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, "The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!" (When do the kingdoms of this world become the kingdoms of God and Christ "forever"? How long is "forever"?)

Rev 11:18 The nations were angry, and Your wrath has come, And the time of the dead, that they should be judged, And that You should reward Your servants the prophets and the saints, And those who fear Your name, small and great, And should destroy those who destroy the earth."

2Ti 4:1 I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom:

.

DavidPT · Oct 13, 2018

JM said:
Convince me the 1,000 years of Revelation must be understood as 1,000 literal years, please.

Yours in the Lord,

jm

I tend to think what settles it is this. If this 1000 years in question occur in this age prior to the 2nd coming, it would then be unreasonable to interpret these as literal years adding up to 1000 total.

But if this 1000 years in question occur in the next age after the 2nd coming, it would then not be unreasonable to interpret these as literal years adding up to 1000 total.

Obviously those who conclude this thousand years occur in this age before the 2nd coming, fully know their interpretation cannot possibly work if these 1000 years have to be a literal 1000 years. Except unless one is PostMil. Postmil is not a popular view these days, though I'm certain there are still some that hold that position. But they are going to be in a minority compared to Premil and Amil.

Benjamin Calvary · Oct 14, 2018

shilohsfoal said:
So youbelieve new jetusalem,comes down,outof heaven before the earth passes away?

Revelation 20:9 And they marched across the broad expanse of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. But fire came down from heaven and consumed them.

Putting the cart before the horse.

Depends on what you mean by "earth" passes away.

"The earth" does not "pass away" until Revelation 20:9.

The New Jerusalem comes down before that event, as in Revelation 21, and elsewhere shows, Zechariah 14. It will be as the ARK of Noah was on the "Sea" of Fire.

Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

The New Jerusalem in those places is not landed on Mt. Moriah, but the Mount of Olives area (to the east, as typified in Ezekiel).

Eze_11:23 And the glory of the LORD went up from the midst of the city, and stood upon the mountain which is on the east side of the city.

So, "no" I am not putting cart before the horse in the least. Revelation is written in the structure of the 7 branch candlestick. Therefore, be careful in reading Revelation, along with the repetitions in 20 & 21.

The enemies (Gog and Magog (the 2nd great resurrection, the unjust), all the wicked who ever lived (basically) since Cain, along with Lucifer and fallen angels, once he has this massive group raised) will surround the city that came down.

[1] Jesus comes down first, levels the mount of Olives (in/to the east) into a plain

Zec 14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

[2] the saints of God come down after/with Jesus.

Jud 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, (this text is dualistic, in the 2nd (angels) and 3rd advents (angels and saved humanity))
Jud 1:15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

[3] wicked are raised by Jesus and proclaim:

Mat_23:39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

[4] the New Jerusalem comes down after that, as the saints watch.

Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

Rev 21:10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

[5] Jesus and all the saints re-enter the city, and 'hold up', as the wicked were resurrected and surround the city.

Psa 122:1 A Song of degrees of David. I was glad when they said unto me, Let us go into the house of the LORD.
Psa 122:2 Our feet shall stand within thy gates, O Jerusalem.
Psa 122:3 Jerusalem is builded as a city that is compact together:
Psa 122:4 Whither the tribes go up, the tribes of the LORD, unto the testimony of Israel, to give thanks unto the name of the LORD.
Psa 122:5 For there are set thrones of judgment, the thrones of the house of David.

Isa 1:8 And the daughter of Zion is left as a cottage in a vineyard, as a lodge in a garden of cucumbers, as a besieged city.

Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

[6] wicked are destroyed by the fire:

Zec 14:12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

(please notice that Zechariah 14:12 is after Zechariah 14:2)

Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Benjamin Calvary · Oct 14, 2018

BABerean2 said:
OK.

How do you deal with "the time of the judgment of the dead", with "reward" for some, and "destruction" for others in Revelation 11:18, since there is another reference to the judgment of the dead in Revelation 20?

Well, Revelation 11:18 is not a single event. It is multiple events in a single verse to begin with. For instance, "nations were angry" ties to Revelation 17; "thy wrath is come" is the 7 last plagues, "and the time of the dead, that they should be judged" is the 1,000 years, as per Revelation 20:4; Daniel 7:22; Psalms 149, etc. The "dead" are the wicked humans being judged by God's people based upon the word and its punishment for sin, see 1 Corinthians 6:2. The "reward" is the resurrection of the good saints, as well as the coming inheritance, and destroy them which destroy the earth (actually has a two fold application, in the last plagues and 2nd Advent, and the final fire in the 3rd advent)

BABerean2 said:
How many mortals are left alive on the planet after the sheep and goat judgment in Matthew 25:31-46?
How does this affect your view of Revelation 20?

Matthew 25:31-46, comes from Ezekiel 34:17 -

Eze 34:17 And as for you, O my flock, thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I judge between cattle and cattle, between the rams and the he goats.

Matthew 25, ties into the 2nd and 3rd Advents, which is a single "day". The "Day" of the LORD., the beginning and ending of the 1,000 years, as endcapped.

Therefore, in both instances, 2nd Advent (beginning of the 1,000 years), all wicked human life is destroyed by the brightness of His coming, that was then presently alive, and in the 3rd Advent (at the end of the 1,000 years), all the wicked who ever lived (basically) will be forever annihilated by fire after their resurrection.

The only humans left alive on earth will be the righteous at the end of the 1,000 years as they go forth from the New Jerusalem which had come down in Revelation 20, etc.

BABerean2 said:
If Christ returns "in flaming fire" at His Second Coming in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10, how does this agree with your view of when the fire comes in Revelation 20?

Easy. It is the same "Day" of the LORD, but two instances (one at the beginning, the other at the ending).

The brightness that comes with Jesus in the 2nd Advent destroys all then wicked living, as in Revelation 17, see "Armageddon".

The 3rd Advent fire, is as Noahs Flood, destroying all wicked who ever lived, after their resurrection, etc, Revelation 20, Zechariah 14, Isaiah 24, Psalms 37 and 149 and so on. Gog and Magog, which is the ultimate ending of Armageddon, the great anti-type.

BABerean2 said:
How do you make 2 Timothy 4:1 work with your view of Revelation 20?

2Ti 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;

You misunderstand the word "judge" and the timings (plural) of "His appearing" and "his kingdom".

Those wicked living at the 2nd Advent will be destroyed by the brightness of His coming, but there is still the final executive judgment to be meted out.

Judgment takes place in Heaven, as already noted. There are multiple phases to judgment (for instance, there is judgment going on right now, Revelation 9:13-15, 14:6-7; Leviticus 16 & 23) The final execution phase is in Revelation 20.

This is why the Bible says:

Pro_28:5 Evil men understand not judgment: but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Now, I am not calling you evil. I am saying, that all those who desire to understand will understand as they seek the LORD, and any who choose not to, will not.

BABerean2 · Oct 14, 2018

Benjamin Calvary said:
Well, Revelation 11:18 is not a single event. It is multiple events in a single verse to begin with. For instance, "nations were angry" ties to Revelation 17; "thy wrath is come" is the 7 last plagues, "and the time of the dead, that they should be judged" is the 1,000 years, as per Revelation 20:4; Daniel 7:22; Psalms 149, etc. The "dead" are the wicked humans being judged by God's people based upon the word and its punishment for sin, see 1 Corinthians 6:2. The "reward" is the resurrection of the good saints, as well as the coming inheritance, and destroy them which destroy the earth (actually has a two fold application, in the last plagues and 2nd Advent, and the final fire in the 3rd advent)

Matthew 25:31-46, comes from Ezekiel 34:17 -

Eze 34:17 And as for you, O my flock, thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I judge between cattle and cattle, between the rams and the he goats.

Matthew 25, ties into the 2nd and 3rd Advents, which is a single "day". The "Day" of the LORD., the beginning and ending of the 1,000 years, as endcapped.

Therefore, in both instances, 2nd Advent (beginning of the 1,000 years), all wicked human life is destroyed by the brightness of His coming, that was then presently alive, and in the 3rd Advent (at the end of the 1,000 years), all the wicked who ever lived (basically) will be forever annihilated by fire after their resurrection.

The only humans left alive on earth will be the righteous at the end of the 1,000 years as they go forth from the New Jerusalem which had come down in Revelation 20, etc.

Easy. It is the same "Day" of the LORD, but two instances (one at the beginning, the other at the ending).

The brightness that comes with Jesus in the 2nd Advent destroys all then wicked living, as in Revelation 17, see "Armageddon".

The 3rd Advent fire, is as Noahs Flood, destroying all wicked who ever lived, after their resurrection, etc, Revelation 20, Zechariah 14, Isaiah 24, Psalms 37 and 149 and so on. Gog and Magog, which is the ultimate ending of Armageddon, the great anti-type.

2Ti 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;

You misunderstand the word "judge" and the timings (plural) of "His appearing" and "his kingdom".

Those wicked living at the 2nd Advent will be destroyed by the brightness of His coming, but there is still the final executive judgment to be meted out.

Judgment takes place in Heaven, as already noted. There are multiple phases to judgment (for instance, there is judgment going on right now, Revelation 9:13-15, 14:6-7; Leviticus 16 & 23) The final execution phase is in Revelation 20.

This is why the Bible says:

Pro_28:5 Evil men understand not judgment: but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Now, I am not calling you evil. I am saying, that all those who desire to understand will understand as they seek the LORD, and any who choose not to, will not.

You are redefining multiple passages of scripture to make your premill doctrine work.

You are claiming the "time of the judgment of the dead" in Revelation 11:15-18 does not occur shortly after the 7th trumpet, even though that is where it is found in the text.

You are claiming the sheep and goat judgement of Matthew 25:31-46 does not occur at the Second Coming of Christ, because you need mortals left to populate your millennium.

You are claiming that judgment occurs in heaven, but the wicked dead will not be found in heaven in the presence of God.

Are you claiming Christ does not return "in flaming fire" taking vengeance on those who do not know God, in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10?

Are you also claiming a pretrib removal of the Church, even though the New Covenant is "everlasting" in Hebrews 13:20, and there is only one people of God in John 10:16?
Are you promoting a form of Dual Covenant Theology, which is based on race, that was brought to America by John Nelson Darby about the time of the Civil War?

.

Benjamin Calvary · Oct 14, 2018

BABerean2 said:
You are claiming the sheep and goat judgement of Matthew 25:31-46 does not occur at the Second Coming of Christ, because you need mortals left to populate your millennium.

What? I specifically stated that there are 0 (Zero, Nada, None, Zip, Zilch, Big Fat Goose Egg, Bubkiss) humans left alive on earth during the basic length of the 1,000 years.

I even earlier cited numerous texts to that effect:

Jeremiah 4:23-28, 25:15-38; Zephaniah 1:2-3,14-18; Isaiah 2:6-22, 11:4, 24:1-6,17-22, 34:1-17 and in Psalms 37:13 already mentioned above and in Psalms 149:8 (and surrounding context).

I specifically stated Matthew 25 relates to the "Day" of the LORD which is a 1,000 years long, with two parts, beginning (2nd) and ending (3rd) on earth, with that 1,000 years between in Heaven.

Benjamin Calvary · Oct 14, 2018

BABerean2 said:
You are claiming the "time of the judgment of the dead" in Revelation 11:15-18 does not occur shortly after the 7th trumpet, even though that is where it is found in the text.

I specifically stated that it comes in order of event, and that Revelation 11:18 is not all one instance of time (as numerous other texts aren't). The judgment of the dead is the 1000 years which comes after the 7th trump. Where are you not understanding what I said?

Benjamin Calvary · Oct 14, 2018

BABerean2 said:
You are claiming that judgment occurs in heaven, but the wicked dead will not be found in heaven in the presence of God.

Correct, for that portion of judgment as cited. The wicked dead are there by proxy, through their deeds written in the books. Do you need me to cite the many texts on the record books of Heaven?

Later on, the wicked dead actually physically stand before God in Revelation 20, when all are on earth again (wicked through resurrection) and righteous through their return with Christ in the 3rd Advent.

Benjamin Calvary · Oct 14, 2018

BABerean2 said:
Are you also claiming a pretrib removal of the Church,

No such thing as 'pre-trib'. Saints go through much tribulation, even two portions of Jacobs trouble, of the long drawn out, and the short intense. I have another study on that.

Benjamin Calvary · Oct 14, 2018

BABerean2 said:
You are redefining ...

No, you just misunderstood everything I pretty much said.

BABerean2 · Oct 14, 2018

Benjamin Calvary said:
Matthew 25, ties into the 2nd and 3rd Advents, which is a single "day". The "Day" of the LORD., the beginning and ending of the 1,000 years, as endcapped.

Therefore, in both instances, 2nd Advent (beginning of the 1,000 years), all wicked human life is destroyed by the brightness of His coming, that was then presently alive, and in the 3rd Advent (at the end of the 1,000 years), all the wicked who ever lived (basically) will be forever annihilated by fire after their resurrection.

The only humans left alive on earth will be the righteous at the end of the 1,000 years as they go forth from the New Jerusalem which had come down in Revelation 20, etc.

'What? I specifically stated that there are 0 (Zero, Nada, Zip, Zilch, Big Fat Goose Egg, Bubkiss) humans left alive on earth during the basic length of the 1,000 years."

How can you have "Zero" mortals during the basic length of the 1,000 years, and then have righteous mortals at the end of the 1,000 years ?

.
I

shilohsfoal · Oct 14, 2018

Benjamin Calvary said:
Depends on what you mean by "earth" passes away.

"The earth" does not "pass away" until Revelation 20:9.

The New Jerusalem comes down before that event, as in Revelation 21, and elsewhere shows, Zechariah 14. It will be as the ARK of Noah was on the "Sea" of Fire.

Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

The New Jerusalem in those places is not landed on Mt. Moriah, but the Mount of Olives area (to the east, as typified in Ezekiel).

Eze_11:23 And the glory of the LORD went up from the midst of the city, and stood upon the mountain which is on the east side of the city.

So, "no" I am not putting cart before the horse in the least. Revelation is written in the structure of the 7 branch candlestick. Therefore, be careful in reading Revelation, along with the repetitions in 20 & 21.

The enemies (Gog and Magog (the 2nd great resurrection, the unjust), all the wicked who ever lived (basically) since Cain, along with Lucifer and fallen angels, once he has this massive group raised) will surround the city that came down.

[1] Jesus comes down first, levels the mount of Olives (in/to the east) into a plain

Zec 14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

[2] the saints of God come down after/with Jesus.

Jud 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, (this text is dualistic, in the 2nd (angels) and 3rd advents (angels and saved humanity))
Jud 1:15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

[3] wicked are raised by Jesus and proclaim:

Mat_23:39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

[4] the New Jerusalem comes down after that, as the saints watch.

Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

Rev 21:10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

[5] Jesus and all the saints re-enter the city, and 'hold up', as the wicked were resurrected and surround the city.

Psa 122:1 A Song of degrees of David. I was glad when they said unto me, Let us go into the house of the LORD.
Psa 122:2 Our feet shall stand within thy gates, O Jerusalem.
Psa 122:3 Jerusalem is builded as a city that is compact together:
Psa 122:4 Whither the tribes go up, the tribes of the LORD, unto the testimony of Israel, to give thanks unto the name of the LORD.
Psa 122:5 For there are set thrones of judgment, the thrones of the house of David.

Isa 1:8 And the daughter of Zion is left as a cottage in a vineyard, as a lodge in a garden of cucumbers, as a besieged city.

Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

[6] wicked are destroyed by the fire:

Zec 14:12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

(please notice that Zechariah 14:12 is after Zechariah 14:2)

Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

You keep saying New Jerusalem comes down from heaven before te earth passes away but that is putting the cart before the horse.
This is very clear .

Revelation 21:1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and earth had passed away, and the sea was no more.
Revelation 21:2 I saw the holy city, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

I know these ate only two simple verses and im not quotingall sorts of verses from different parts of the bible like you but im quite sure these two simple verses are clear.

1- The earths passes away.
2-A new heaven,and new earth are seen.
3-New Jerusalem,comes down out of heaven.

So where are the saints when Gog invades Israel and surrounds them?

Revelation 20:9 And they marched across the broad expanse of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. But fire came down from heaven and consumed them.

This verse says those saints who have been,reigning with Christ for the previous 1000 years are on earth.

And they shall continue to reign even after Gog is destryed and New Jerusalem comes down from heaven.

FredVB · Oct 14, 2018

I won't continue about this, to argue about it. None of us know about it with certainty, I don't, and others here don't. And most minds are made up, and are not going to change. But our salvation is what is important, and that does not depend on our position regarding these things.

When one thousand years is mentioned, what time, and specifically what amount of time, is being referred to?

Revelation 20
I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand. He seized the dragon, the old serpent, which is the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole inhabited earth, and bound him for a thousand years, and cast him into the abyss, and shut it, and sealed it over him, that he should deceive the nations no more, until the thousand years were finished. After this, he must be freed for a short time. I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus, and for the word of God, and such as didn’t worship the beast nor his image, and didn’t receive the mark on their forehead and on their hand. They lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. The rest of the dead didn’t live until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over these, the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with him one thousand years.

And after the thousand years, Satan will be released from his prison, and he will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to the war; the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. They went up over the width of the earth, and surrounded the camp of the saints, and the beloved city. Fire came down out of heaven from God, and devoured them. The devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet are also. They will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

I saw a great white throne, and him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away.

Do I think it must be exactly precisely one thousand years? No, not really. But I would think it to be close, as an approximate. The sea of ten cubits diameter in Solomon's tenple was said to have a circumference three times its diameter, of course it would have been pi times the diameter, but an approximation is used.

Specific things are involved here in this depiction of the thousand years. Jesus would have returned, Satan bound to have no effect on this earth and its inhabitants for that time, of about a thousand years. The saints reign with him. The suggestion is this damaged world is improved. Jerusalem is at last the city of peace Jerusalem was supposed to be known as, and the witness for trusting Christ goes forth from there, along with all being subject to his rule.

The ultimate things with removal of what is here and a new heaven and earth brought in is depicted as following those things. I won't agree the new Jerusalem is coming down. It is the highest mountain, it will reach from the top in the heavens to its base on the new earth.

Benjamin Calvary · Oct 14, 2018

FredVB said:
...None of us know about it with certainty, I don't, and others here don't...

You may not know with certainty, but I do, as I believe what is written. You may keep your doubts to your position, but please do not attempt to 'vote' for me. Thank you.

Benjamin Calvary · Oct 14, 2018

shilohsfoal said:
I know these ate only two simple verses and im not quotingall sorts of verses from different parts of the bible like you but im quite sure these two simple verses are clear.

Who ever stated that the texts weren't clear? Certianly not I. I stated the opposite, that they are clear. It is that you do not have their order correctly because you do not have the structure of Revelation in mind, nor its cycles of repetition as I demonstrated.

That a verse comes immediately after a prevous verse, does not mean that they are always consecutively in time.

See Genesis 1-2. Genesis 2:5 onward, rewinds, and focuses upon the 6th Day, whereas in Genesis 2:1-3, it was already the events of th 7th day.

This is seen in Daniel, as well, see Daniel 7:1-12 (Daniel), and then see Daniel 7:13-14 (Gabriel, sums up all of Daniel 7:1-12), then see Daniel 7:15-22 (repeats Daniel), then see Daniel 7:23-28 (repeats Gabriel).

Revelation is similarly written, just as a super example, see 7 churches, 7 seals and 7 Trumpets. They all re-cover the same ground and time from different persepctives. This is demonstrated by language itself and the structure of Revelation in the shape of the 7 branch candlestick.

Benjamin Calvary · Oct 14, 2018

BABerean2 said:
How can you have "Zero" mortals during the basic length of the 1,000 years, and then have righteous mortals at the end of the 1,000 years ?

God brings the righteous saints with him at Jesus 3rd Advent, and they land upon the earth (texts already cited), and also the wicked humans are also then raised and surround that city (that came down from Heaven).

Again, read these texts, and ask yourself, when are they fulfilled:

Jeremiah 4:23-28, 25:15-38; Zephaniah 1:2-3,14-18; Isaiah 2:6-22, 11:4, 24:1-6,17-22, 34:1-17 and in Psalms 37:13 already mentioned above and in Psalms 149:8 (and surrounding context).

Jer 4:23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.
Jer 4:24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
Jer 4:25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
Jer 4:26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.
Jer 4:27 For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.
Jer 4:28 For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black: because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.

The 7 last plagues, the great earthquake, the atmosphere being torn in two, and even the sun and moon will be moved out of their places, for God will even shake the Heaven, and Jesus 2nd advent leaves the earth in desolate state, taking all the redeemed with Him back to Heaven to the Fathers House (John 14:1-3), and the wicked then living are destroyed by the brightness of that 2nd Advent, and will not live again until the 3rd, the end of the 1,000 years, and satan and his angels are left alone in the pit (desolated earth) as a prison, unable to leave.

shilohsfoal · Oct 14, 2018

Benjamin Calvary said:
Who ever stated that the texts weren't clear? Certianly not I. I stated the opposite, that they are clear. It is that you do not have their order correctly because you do not have the structure of Revelation in mind, nor its cycles of repetition as I demonstrated.

That a verse comes immediately after a prevous verse, does not mean that they are always consecutively in time.

See Genesis 1-2. Genesis 2:5 onward, rewinds, and focuses upon the 6th Day, whereas in Genesis 2:1-3, it was already the events of th 7th day.

This is seen in Daniel, as well, see Daniel 7:1-12 (Daniel), and then see Daniel 7:13-14 (Gabriel, sums up all of Daniel 7:1-12), then see Daniel 7:15-22 (repeats Daniel), then see Daniel 7:23-28 (repeats Gabriel).

Revelation is similarly written, just as a super example, see 7 churches, 7 seals and 7 Trumpets. They all re-cover the same ground and time from different persepctives. This is demonstrated by language itself and the structure of Revelation in the shape of the 7 branch candlestick.

The two verses are in order and the events contained in the two verses are in order.
You are wrong.

Revelation 21:1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and earth had passed away, and the sea was no more.
Revelation 21:2 I saw the holy city, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

Simple enough for a child to understand.

BABerean2 · Oct 14, 2018

Benjamin Calvary said:
God brings the righteous saints with him at Jesus 3rd Advent, and they land upon the earth (texts already cited), and also the wicked humans are also then raised and surround that city (that came down from Heaven).

You have two groups above which cannot reproduce to produce your righteous mortals at the end of your millennium.

How do you propose to solve your problem?

Your claim that the resurrected wicked dead are going to attempt to attack the Saints from heaven is a new twist.
Why would Christ resurrect the wicked dead so that they can attack His Saints?

.

Benjamin Calvary · Oct 14, 2018

BABerean2 said:
You have two groups above which cannot reproduce to produce your righteous mortals at the end of your millennium.

How do you propose to solve your problem?

Ummm, why would anyone need to reproduce? All that is over by then and no longer needed.

Why a literal 1,000 years?

Well-Known Member

Newbie

Well-Known Member

Persistent - testing the system.

Persistent - testing the system.

Newbie

Persistent - testing the system.

Persistent - testing the system.

Persistent - testing the system.

Persistent - testing the system.

Persistent - testing the system.

Newbie

Jacks or better to open

Regular Member

Persistent - testing the system.

Persistent - testing the system.

Persistent - testing the system.

Jacks or better to open

Newbie

Persistent - testing the system.

Similar threads