Daniel's 70 weeks and the fulfillment of the New Covenant

BABerean2 · Oct 12, 2018

A great deal of time is spent on this forum discussing a future 70th week of Daniel.

Based on Matthew 10:5-7, and Romans 1:16, and Galatians 1:14-18, the Gospel was taken "first" to Daniel's people for a period of about 7 years before Paul began his ministry to the Gentiles.

Are we supposed to believe the angel Gabriel came to reveal the timeline of the Messiah who would fulfill the New Covenant already promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34, and then the angel failed to even mention the New Covenant fulfilled by Christ?
(Hebrews 12:22-24)

Pastor John Otis on Daniel chapter 9

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Christian Gedge · Oct 12, 2018

Is it a coincident that the same angel, Gabriel, who gave the vision to Daniel, also visited Mary concerning the birth of Messiah? It has occurred to me the Gabriel may have had the job of overseeing the progress of the 70 weeks over the entire 490 years.

What think ye? :idea:

mkgal1 · Oct 12, 2018

I think you're right.

Gabriel was also the messenger of the Lord mentioned in Zechariah's story (Zechariah the priest, John the Baptizer's father / Elizabeth's husband) recorded in Luke 1:19:

v 19. The angel replies, “I am Gabriel” (a name Zechariah may have recognized from the book of Daniel). I stand in the presence of God, and I have been sent to speak to you and to bring you this good news."

LittleLambofJesus · Oct 12, 2018

mkgal1 said:
I think you're right.

Gabriel was also the messenger of the Lord mentioned in Zechariah's story (Zechariah the priest, John the Baptizer's father / Elizabeth's husband) recorded in Luke 1:19:

v 19. The angel replies, “I am Gabriel” (a name Zechariah may have recognized from the book of Daniel). I stand in the presence of God, and I have been sent to speak to you and to bring you this good news."

Greetings mkgal1.
You have just reminded me of a great thread you started recently. Will have to start posting on it again. :oldthumbsup:

[I have it perpetually bookmarked :angel:

]

New House New Stones

Luke 1
5 There was in the days of Herod king of Judea a certain priest named Zacharias, of the division of Abijah, and his wife of the daughters of Aaron, and her name Elizabeth.
8 And it came to pass, in his acting as priest in the order of his course before God,
9 according to the custom of the priesthood, his lot was to make perfume, having gone into the Sanctuary of the Lord,
10 and all the multitude of the people were praying without, at the hour of the perfume
11 And a Messenger of the Lord appeared to him, standing at the right of the Altar of the incense.
12 And having seen him, Zechariah was troubled, and fear fell upon him.

Now look at Revelation

Revelation 8:3
Then another Messenger, having a golden censer, came and stood at the Altar.
He was given much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all the Saints upon the golden Altar which was before the throne.

Studies In The Scriptures - Tabernacle Shadows - Chapter 1

The Camp--The Gate--
The Court----The Brazen Altar--The Laver----
The Tabernacle---
The First Veil--- The Table--The Lampstand--The Golden Altar--
The Second Veil--The Mercy Seat and Ark

The Significance of These and Their Antitypes.

http://www.christiandiscussionforums.org/v/showthread.php?t=143947
What is the Court in Reve 11:2 symbolizing?

Douggg · Oct 12, 2018

Christian Gedge said:
Is it a coincident that the same angel, Gabriel, who gave the vision to Daniel, also visited Mary concerning the birth of Messiah?

Good observation, Gedge. Thanks.

BABerean2 · Oct 13, 2018

The "Seed Promise" starts in Genesis 3:15, and is found in Genesis 12:3, and runs throughout the whole Old Testament.
Christ confirms this fact on the road to Emmaus in Luke 24:25-27.

Daniel 9 is the timeline of His arrival as the Messiah who would fulfill the New Covenant in His blood. (Matthew 26:28, Hebrews 12:22-24)

This scripture should be one of the greatest proofs of our faith.
It is sad that this passage has been hijacked by man-made doctrines, especially within the last 200 years.

I am shocked by the number of New Covenant deniers that we have on this forum. (1 John 2:27)

The battle between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant began in Acts chapter 15, and continues to the present.
During most of that time the Judaisers have won the day.

Act 15:24 Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, "You must be circumcised and keep the law"—to whom we gave no such commandment—

Daniel Chapter 9: Dr. Kelly Varner

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mkgal1 · Oct 13, 2018

BABerean2 said:
I am shocked by the number of New Covenant deniers that we have on this forum. (1 John 2:27)

I agree especially with this. It's not just here on the forum.....I think it's prevalent in American christianity in general.

mkgal1 · Oct 13, 2018

I just came across this book review, and I believe part of the problem is missing the main plot of the Bible - which is explained here:

Quoting from review of Jesus the Temple: Perrin's basic aim is to provide a historical Jesus study that brings out how closely Jesus identifies "himself and his movement" with "Yahweh's eschatological temple" (p. 12). The ushering in of the new eschatological temple of God occurs in accordance with the following plot. Jesus and the NT writers identify pervasive corruption on the part of the priesthood who oversee the Jerusalem temple. This corruption has risen to the level of "apostasy within the temple," which means that "the abomination that causes desolation" (Dan 9:27) has appeared in the temple (p. 12). The abomination's presence in the temple signals that the prophesied time of tribulation has come. The tribulation will culminate in the destruction of the Jerusalem temple. In place of the temple, Jesus establishes the eschatological temple, which includes himself as the new temple and his followers who are in union with him (pp. 11-12, 77-78, 110). Like other "counter-temple movements" from the time of Jesus, Jesus' followers distinguish themselves from the corrupt temple leadership by identifying themselves "both as and for the poor" (pp. 77-78). ~ Jesus the Temple

Another article about Perrin's book and N.T. Wright's work:
Worship: The Temple and Wright’s Paul and the Faithfulness of God

Quote from above linked article:
The point of the Temple—this is where I want to develop considerably further what was said in the earlier volumes—is that it was where heaven and earth met. It was the place where Israel’s God, YHWH, had long ago promised to put his name, to make his glory present. The Temple, and before it the wilderness tabernacle, were thus heirs, within the biblical narrative, to moments like Jacob’s vision, the discovery that a particular spot on earth could intersect with, and be the gateway into, heaven itself. In the later period, even synagogues could sometimes be thought of as meeting places between heaven and earth; how much more the actual Temple.

The Temple was not simply a convenient place to meet for worship. It was not even just the ‘single sanctuary’, the one and only place where sacrifice was to be offered in worship to the one God. It was the place above all where the twin halves of the good creation intersected. When you went up to the Temple, it was not as though you were ‘in heaven’. You were actually there. That was the point. ~ Worship: The Temple and Wright’s Paul and the Faithfulness of God

LittleLambofJesus · Oct 13, 2018

BABerean2 said:
The battle between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant began in Acts chapter 15, and continues to the present.
During most of that time the Judaisers have won the day.
.

There is also a battle between the OC/Moses and NC/Abraham/Jesus showing in Revelation

Did you notice that a lot of the words used in the covenantle parable of the rich man and Larzarus in Luke 16 are used in the covenantle book of Revelation, [particularly, the great City/Queen in Revelation 18?]
Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary

The wearing of purple was associated particularly with royalty . . ." (p. 863, "Purple"). In addition, the New Bible Dictionary tells us: "The use of linen in OT times was prescribed for priests (Ex. 28:39). The coat, turban and girdle must be of fine linen." (p. 702, "Linen").So we see that the garments worn by this rich man were symbolic of royalty and the priesthood

Hebrews 7:12 For being translated<3346> the Priesthood, out of necessity also, of Law a translation<3331> is becoming

Luke 16:
19 Yet a certain Man was rich<4145> and in-slipped/enedidusketo <1737> (5710) purple<4209> and fine-linen<1040> making-merry<2165> according to a-day shiningly<2988>
20 Yet a certain poor-one<4434> was to name lazarus who had been cast toward the gate/pulwna <4440> of him having sores-abiding

Revelation 2:9
I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich<4145>) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Judeans, and are not, but are a synagogue of the Satan.

Revelation 3:17
“Because thou say, ‘I am being rich<4145>, and have become rich<4147>, and have need of nothing'—
and do not know that thou are wretched, miserable, poor<4434>, blind, and naked—

Luke 16
19 Yet a certain Man was rich<4145> and in-slipped/enedidusketo <1737> (5710) purple<4209> and fine-linen<1040>
making-merry<2165> according to a-day shiningly/splendidly<2988>

Revelation 18
7 As much as glorifies herself, and indulges be giving to her tormenting and mourning that in her heart she is saying 'I am sitting a Queen and widow not I am and mourning not I shall be seeing'.
14 And the fruits that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and splendid/shining-things<2986> are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all.
16 “and saying, ‘woe! woe! that great City
that was clothed in fine linen<1039>, purple<4209>, and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls!
20 “Make merry<2165> over Her, O heaven, and you Saints and Apostles and Prophets,
because God has judged for You the judgment against Her.”

OC King/Rich Man and Queen/Jezebel [Revelation 2:20]?

1 King 21:25
But there was no one like Ahab who sold himself to do wickedness in the sight of the LORD, because Jezebel his wife stirred him up.

She who sits as queen, not widow, never mourns

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LittleLambofJesus · Oct 13, 2018

BABerean2 said:
I am shocked by the number of New Covenant deniers that we have on this forum. (1 John 2:27)
.

mkgal1 said:
I agree especially with this. It's not just here on the forum.....I think it's prevalent in American christianity in general.

Yes it appears that way, especially within some sects of Christianity [which I think most of us know which ones]
When does "NEW" not mean"NEW"

Jeremiah 31:31
" Behold, the days are coming, says Yahweh, when I will make a NEW<2319> Covenant........

Josua 9:13
[Matthew 9:16-17 Mark 2:2 Luke 5:37-18]
and these are the wine-bottles which we filled, new, and lo, they have rent;
and these, our garments and our sandals, have become old, from the exceeding greatness of the way.'

Luke 5:37
[Matthew 9:17 Joshua 9:13]
"And no one is casting young/neon <3501> wine into OLD/palaiouV<3820> skins/bottles, if yet no surely shall be ruined the young wine of the skins/bottles,
and it shall be being poured-out and its skin shall be perishing.
38 but young wine into NEW/kainouV <2537> skins/bottles is to be cast, and both are preserved together.
39 And no one drinking Old immediately is willing young, for he is saying, 'for the the Old is kind/mellow'".

Hebrews 8:13
in the saying 'NEW,' He hath made the first OLD,
and what doth become obsolete and is old is nigh disappearing.

That brings to mind this thread I created.

Did Christ come to establish a New or Renewed Covenant with Israel?

LittleLambofJesus said:
According to what I have heard from Messianic Jews, they say Christ simply "renewed" the Covenant spoken of in Jeremiah 31/Hebrews 8 instead of making it "new".
What are the views of those here concerning that? Thanks

*
It is New
49 vote(s)
68.1%
It is a Renewal
13 vote(s)
18.1%
What is the difference?
3 vote(s)
4.2%
I am not sure
3 vote(s)
4.2%
Other
4 vote(s)
5.6%

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BABerean2 · Oct 15, 2018

Brother David H J Gay is one of the leading proponents of New Covenant Theology.

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BABerean2 · Oct 17, 2018

The New Covenant: Bob George

Jer_31:31 "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah—

Mat_26:28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Mar_14:24 And He said to them, "This is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many.

Luk_22:20 Likewise He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you.

1Co_11:25 In the same manner He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood. This do, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me."

2Co_3:6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

Heb_8:8 Because finding fault with them, He says: "BEHOLD, THE DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH—

Heb_8:13 In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Heb_9:15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.

Heb_12:24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.

(NKJV)

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Daniel's 70 weeks and the fulfillment of the New Covenant

BABerean2

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Christian Gedge

Well-Known Member

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mkgal1

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33

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LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

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Douggg

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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BABerean2

Newbie

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mkgal1

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33

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mkgal1

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33

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LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

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LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

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BABerean2

Newbie

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BABerean2

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