Why a literal 1,000 years?

Benjamin Calvary said:

Seriously? Steve G.? He (though I like him as a personality) doesn't have much of a position on anything (including prophecy, and pretty much just throws all the erroneous options on the table), and is seriously in error on basic material, demonstrable upon request.

I would like to enter his forums, and share with him a thing or two (everytime I attempt to email him I get nothing or a bounced) ...

Click to expand...

mmksparbud said:

Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

All the saved are with Jesus---all the wicked are dead--there is no one left---an empty destroyed earth is his bottomless pit for 1000 years. It is alluded to in Jeremiah.

Click to expand...

Dave L said:

It's not a literal chain. How do you bind a spirit (Satan) with a physical chain?

Click to expand...

DamianWarS said:

why does revelation have to follow the same way other books of the bible use cardinal numbers?

Click to expand...

Benjamin Calvary said:

If you are desiring to see evidence for such, then perhaps a prayerful study of Revelation 20 itself would be of use.

Isaiah 24 and Revelation 19-22 parallelism (short notes):

World Destroyed - Isaiah 24:1-20
High Ones on High - Isaiah 24:21
Kings of the Earth - Isaiah 24:21
Prisonsers in the Pit - Isaiah 24:22
Many Days - Isaiah 24:22
New Jeruslam/Zion - Isaiah 24:23
Reign Gloriously - Isaiah 24:23
Sun and Moon Ashamed - Isaiah 24:23
Remnant - Isaiah 4:3
Ancients - Isaiah 24:23

World Destroyed - Revelation 19:11-21; 16:18-21
Satan - Revelation 20:1-2
Kings - Revelation 19:19
Prison/Pit - Revelation 20:1-2
The Thousand Years - Revelation 20:1,2,3,4,5,6,7
New Jerusalem/Zion - Revelation 21:2
King of Kings - Revelation 19:11,16
No Need of Sun or Moon - Revelation 21:23
Remnant - Revelation 22:14
Heavenly Elders Council - Job 1-2; Revelation 4:4,10, 5:5,6,8,11,14, 7:11,13, 11:16,14:3, 19:4

It also parallels to Psalms 37.

Armageddon, the gathering to war against the Lamb (and his body) - Psalms 37:14,12,35
The Day of the LORD, the final thousand years, beginning, middle and ending - Psalms 37:13
Final Destruction of the Wicked - Psalms 37:1,2,9a,10,20,22b,28b,34b,36,38
Heavens & Earth Made New, saints reign upon the earth made new, forever - Psalms 37:3,9b,11,18,22a,28b,29,34a,37

It is dealing with normal earth time between the 2nd (John 14:1-3; 1 Thessalonians 4:16, etc) and 3rd Advents (Zechariah 14:1~; Revelation 20:7-11~) of Jesus Christ, known as "the Day of the LORD" (Isaiah 2:12, 13:6,9, 34:8; Jeremiah 46:10; Lamentations 2:22; Ezekiel 13:5, 30:3; Joel 1:15, 2:1,11,31, 3:14; Amos 5:18,20; Obadiah 1:15; Zephaniah 1:7,8,14,18, 2:2,3; Zechariah 14:1; Malachi 4:5; Acts 2:20; 1 Corinthians 5:5; 2 Corinthians 1:14; 1 Thessalonians 5:2; 2 Peter 3:10 -- 2 Peter 3:10, tied in context to 2 Peter 3:8, which is citing Psalms 90:4) or "the last day" (John 6:39,40,44,54, 11:24, 12:48) throughout scripture, and ties into 2 Peter 3:8; Psalms 90:4; Hosea 6:2; Ecclesiastes 6:6; John 11:6.

The location of this “reign” of Jesus and the saints, for “a thousand years” is never said to be on the plague wracked, utterly sin polluted and totally cursed and devastated “earth”, wherein even the upper heaven [atmosphere] is burned away by the second Advent [Genesis 3:17, 5:29, 8:21; Isaiah 34:4; 2 Peter 3:10-12; Revelation 6:14; 11:19, 15:1,6,8, 16:9,17-21, 18:4,8 21:9, 22:18 KJB]. So likewise for the passages of “Isaiah 2, 11, 65; Amos 9; Zechariah 14”. Read prayerfully and carefully for oneself. Where then is the “thousand year” reign of Jesus and the saints to be? It is to be in Heaven, the “third” [2 Corinthians 12:2 KJB].

The “reign upon the earth” comes after 1,000 years [Revelation 20:2,3,4,5,6,7 KJB], for the “saints” must be both resurrected and/or translated, glorified, and brought back to Heaven [John 14:1-4; 1 Thessalonians 4:17, etc KJB] at the Second Advent and First Great Resurrection, to “reign” in Heaven, for 1,000 years [Revelation 20:4,5a,6 KJB] going over the record books of the lost [1 Corinthians 6:2,3 KJB]:

[1] The “thousand years” reign “in Heaven” [Psalms 50:5; Matthew 5:3,8,10,12, 6:20, 13:30, 24:31; Mark 10:21, 13:27; Luke 6:23, 18:22, 23:43; John 14:2-3, 17:24; Colossians 1:5; Hebrews 10:34; 1 Peter 1:4; Revelation 7:9, 14:3, 19:1 KJB; “Paradise”, Luke 23:43; 2 Corinthians 12:4; Revelation 2:7 KJB] with Christ Jesus [1 Thessalonians 4:16-17; Revelation 20:6 KJB] and

[2] The “reign on earth” [“made new”, not this sin polluted Earth; 2 Peter 3:13; Isaiah 65:17, 66:22; Revelation 21:1 KJB] that lasts “forever and ever” [Revelation 5:10 KJB; “meek inherit earth” [“made new”, not this sin polluted Earth], Psalms 37:9,11,34; Proverbs 11:31; Isaiah 25:8, 65:21; Daniel 7:27; Matthew 5:5; Revelation 5:10 KJB].

As for the word "bottomless pit", as found in the GNT TR of Revelation 9:1,2,11, 11:7, 17:8, 20:1, it is the Koine Greek "αβυσσου" [abussou, or abyssou], in GNT TR of Revelation 20:3, it is again "αβυσσον" [abusson, or abysson], which in the transliterated English is the word "abyss", which according to the first use in Genesis, means the "deep", being in "darkness", and "without form and void [empty of/having no life]", thus is associated with a dark chaotic wilderness/desert [water or earth], symbolic of death/no life (see Revelation 9:1,2,11, 17:8, 20:1,3; Luke 8:31; Romans 10:7. See also the so-called LXX uses in (LXX) Genesis 1:2, 7:11, 8:2; Deuteronomy 8:7, 33:13; Job 38:16,30, 41:32 (41:24); Psalms 33:7 (32:7), 71:20 (70:20), 71:21 (70:21), 78:15 (77:15), 106:9 (105:9), 107:26 (106:26), 135:6 (134:6); Proverbs 8:24; Isaiah 44:27, 51:10, 63:13; and in the apocryphal books/texts of (LXX) Daniel 3:54; Wisdom 10:19; Sirach 24:5,29.), as per: Jeremiah 4:23-28, 25:15-38; Zephaniah 1:2-3,14-18; Isaiah 2:6-22, 11:4, 24:1-6,17-22, 34:1-17 and in Psalms 37:13 already mentioned above and in Psalms 149:8 (and surrounding context).

If one were to consider the so-called 'ECF' and the studies of others, a thread was kindly posted already on the subject by user 'EvangAlived', seen here (a great resource tool) - Ante-Nicene 'fathers' 7,000 year old earth, based on 7 days of Genesis & Psa. 90:4; 2 Pet. 3:8

It is also listed here in more detail in the first posting than on these forums - The 7 days of Genesis & 7,000 years old earth view (Ps. 90:4, II Pet. 3:8)), + Ante-Nicene view

It is also now online available as a download, as stated by user "EvangAlived" here - TinyUpload.com - best file hosting solution, with no limits, totaly free

Excellent material.

The 1,000 years 'sealing' away of Satan on the desolate earth (for he is bound by 'chain' of circumstance (Psalms 73:6; Lamentations 3:7), since the devil can easily break physical chains (Mark 5:4), is also tied directly to the '7 seals' by language, as see here: TinyUpload.com - best file hosting solution, with no limits, totaly free

Revelation 20:4, is directly tied to Daniel 7:22 (in its 4 "time" portions), by language (Revelation 20:4 "judgment was given unto them", Daniel 7:22 "judgment was given to the saints of the most High", which again ties into Psalms 149).

Revelation 20, is also directly ties to Revelation 9, 11, & 17, by language, speaking of the "the bottomless pit" "key" (9 & 20), "the king" (9), "beast" (11 & 17), and "dragon" (20).

Revelation 20, is also tied directly to Leviticus 16 & 23 by event:

Leviticus 16:8,10,20 -- Revelation 20:1
Leviticus 16:21-22 -- Revelation 20:2-3

Click to expand...

HTacianas said:

The rejection of a literal 1000 year reign of Christ on the earth happened long before 1000 AD. Some sense of euphoria or panic or whatever other reason for people to have believed Jesus was returning in 1000 AD by necessity contradicted the Nicene Creed.

Click to expand...

BABerean2 said:

Revelation 20 is full of symbolic language.

As Brother Dave pointed out Satan cannot be bound by a steel chain from the hardware store.

Will a hole in the ground with a metal lid on it hold Satan?

The "time of the judgment of the dead" is found in Revelation 11:18.
When is the judgment found in Revelation 20?

Christ returns "in flaming fire" at His Second Coming in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10.
When does the fire come in Revelation 20?

If the sheep and goat judgment of Matthew 25:31-46 is literal, there will be no mortals left after the Second Coming of Christ.

Since we have Christ returning in Revelation 16:15-16 and also in chapter 19, we know the Book of Revelation is not in chronological order.

.

Click to expand...

BABerean2 said:

Revelation 20 is full of symbolic language.

As Brother Dave pointed out Satan cannot be bound by a steel chain from the hardware store.

Will a hole in the ground with a metal lid on it hold Satan?

Click to expand...

DavidPT said:

satan is a spirit being of sorts. There could be such places in existence that confine spirit beings, but not that it would need to involve metal lids though. Have you ever visited and experienced the spiritual realm where spirit beings like God, angels, and satan dwell? I'm guessing probably not. You therefore don't know for a fact what that realm all consists of. What about when satan gets cast into the LOF? Does that mean he can get out eventually simply because he is a spirit being, thus can't literally be confined anywhere?

Click to expand...

DavidPT said:

Why not? The book of Revelation isn't the only place a thousand years is mentioned. Why would the pattern apply to all other cardinal numbers, but not to 1000 as well?


If someone said---If I have told you once, I have told you a thousand times, stop doing that.

Most people wouldn't take the thousand times in a literal sense in the above. Provide some common sayings like the above, but have those examples involving a thousand years instead, where it would be obvious that the thousand years are not to be taken in a literal sense, the same way it's obvious the thousand times above isn't meant to be taken literally.

What some don't seem to grasp, the cattle upon a thousand hills.(Psalms 50:10) is not the same concept as a thousand years. Yet those who try to disprove that the 1000 years are meaning literal years, typically use Psalms 50:10 to try and support their argument. Just because it's obvious that a literal thousand hills are not meant, that doesn't prove it's equally obvious a literal thousand years is not meant, simply because both have the number 1000 in common. Who could argue that the number 1000 can never be meaning literal at any time, but that it has to always be taken non literally every single time?

Click to expand...

JM said:

When it comes to eschatology I use the sliding scale. 1 being very unlikely to 10 being very likely. I give the the literal understanding of the 1,000 years a 4. That leaves room for correction.

Yours in the Lord,

jm

Click to expand...

DamianWarS said:

From what I can turn up (3 examples outside of Rev 20) is 1000 years are referenced as extreme contrasts, the classic example is 2 Peter 3:8 but others follow a similar style (Psalm 90:4, Ecclesiastes 6:6) These examples, if they reveal a pattern at all, would show that a 1000 years is a type of hyperbole and should not be taken literal and it tends to mean an unimaginable length of time.

Click to expand...

BABerean2 said:

2Pe_2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;


Jud_1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

.

Click to expand...

JM said:

Ok, no one posted a chart. Here you go!


View attachment 243144

Click to expand...

DavidPT said:

Why does it have to involve hyperbole though? Let's take the Ecclesiastes 6:6 example you brought up.

Ecclesiastes 6:6 Yea, though he live a thousand years twice told, yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place?

If a thousand years are not meaning a literal thousand years, but that a thousand years by itself can mean 2000 years, or 3000 years, or 10,000 years, so on and so on, why does the text say twice told? Why would it need to say twice told in that case? How does it make good sense to use an alleged hyperbolic number having to do with twice told? Isn't that the way many are reasoning the thousand years in Revelation 20, that it's not meaning 1000 literal years, but that it is meaning 2000 years and counting? Thus 1000 years can mean 2000 years, or 3000 years, so on and so on, depending when this non literal thousand years initially finishes? Doesn't it make better sense that the thousand years in Ecclesiastes 6:6 are meaning a literal thousand years, thus---- Yea, though he live two thousand years, yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place?

Click to expand...

DamianWarS said:

Why does Jesus says we should forgive 70x7? If the Ecc text is taken literally then what of 2001 years? Maybe that's the magic number that changes it all. Rather it is saying an impossible length of time and twice that contributes no more. It's like saying "an infinity + 1". "Twice told" puts greater emphasis on it and has more impact than saying 2000, otherwise the author would just say 2000. Of course if you say that above 2000 makes a difference then it misses the point; the text has the same meaning if it were 10,000 years or a million.

Click to expand...

DavidPT said:

As to what Jesus said in regards to 7x70, it is obvious to me, though perhaps not obvious to everyone else, that He was referring to the 70 weeks in Daniel 9 by saying that.

But as to the Ecc text, I think you are missing my point. The text says twice told. That only makes sense if the amount of years being specified literally mean the amount specified.

Take eternity for instance. What does that involve? An unspecified amount of years, so to speak. No one would say eternity twice told since that wouldn't make sense in the least. And if 1000 years are also meaning an unspecified amount of years, where it could be meaning 10,000 years, or even a million years, how does it make sense using an unspecified amount of years twice told? Does the text mean, if a man live a million years twice told, or if a man live a billion years twice told, or does it simply mean what it says, a thousand years twice told? IOW a literal thousand years twice told?

Click to expand...

DavidPT said:

Does not the text indicate they are cast down into hell per your translation above? Where and what would hell be meaning per your understanding? Would you see that as a place, or see it as something else altogether?

Click to expand...