Why a literal 1,000 years?

shilohsfoal · Oct 11, 2018

HTacianas said:
I believe that your interpretation of Rev 20 is of a literal 1000 years. I also believe that you have never studied the chiliasm controversy in the early Church nor have you studied the canons of the ecumenical councils.

Please don't be upset by this, but I do not accept your authority over the authority of the Church. Your interpretation of the Revelation is at odds with the interpretation of the Church.

So you dont believe the litteral words of God?

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection! The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with Him for a thousand years.

Would you have believed Gods litteral word if it fit your fiqurative veiw or would you still deny Gods litteral word?

shilohsfoal · Oct 11, 2018

Revelation 20:7 When the thousand years are complete, Satan will be released from his prison,

Then there is this verse which state satan is bound for 1000 years.

Revelation 20:7 When the thousand years are complete, Satan will be released from his prison,

Now why would this even be in the bible if it were not true?
Is there anyone here who wishes to say this vese is not the truth?

HTacianas · Oct 11, 2018

shilohsfoal said:
So you dont believe the litteral words of God?

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection! The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with Him for a thousand years.

Would you have believed Gods litteral word if it fit your fiqurative veiw or would you still deny Gods litteral word?

To say that I do not believe the literal word of God is a fallacy.

I do not believe in your authority to set aside the canons of an ecumenical Council nor your authority to disregard the Nicene Creed. If you have that authority, where did you get it from?

shilohsfoal · Oct 11, 2018

HTacianas said:
To say that I do not believe the literal word of God is a fallacy.

I do not believe in your authority to set aside the canons of an ecumenical Council nor your authority to disregard the Nicene Creed. If you have that authority, where did you get it from?

You go ahead and believe whatever fairy tales you wish to believe by whoever wrote them.
I will believe God.

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection! The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with Him for a thousand years.

JM · Oct 11, 2018

Handmaid for Jesus said:
That is too funny. If you have already been persuaded that it is not literal, why do you want to be convinced otherwise?

DavidPT said:
I suspect he has no genuine desire to be convinced. That would be like me starting a thread entitled---convince me the Pretrib rapture is correct. And since I am already convinced it is not correct, it would basically be meaning that I'm playing mindgames with Pretribbers by starting a thread like that, giving the false impression that I'm open to the idea when I'm really not.

When it comes to eschatology I use the sliding scale. 1 being very unlikely to 10 being very likely. I give the the literal understanding of the 1,000 years a 4. That leaves room for correction.

Yours in the Lord,

jm

nonaeroterraqueous · Oct 11, 2018

HTacianas said:
I am talking about the Church present at the Council of Constantinople.

381 A.D. was right at the time when the church ceased to be spiritual movement and transformed into more of a political movement. That was around the time that the Roman church came into being and retroactively claimed lineage all the way back to Peter, while the Orthodoxy developed into a full-blown state-sponsored institution. It was at that time that the church came to see itself as the Millennial Reign of Christ, his kingdom on Earth, and the Patriarch of Rome came to see himself as the Vicar of Christ, a literal and direct substitute for our savior as head of his Millennial Kingdom, until his return. Under these circumstances, it should not be surprising that the church was officially Amillennial.

However, the literal interpretation of the thousand years was still up for grabs, even at this time. When the first thousand years came to an end there was widespread expectation of Christ's return. People sold their land, gave away property and abstained from all sex, even marital sex. Why? Because the church was officially Amillennial. If they were living in the Earthly reign of Christ, then that Millennial Reign was to last until 1000 A. D. When Christ did not in fact return, one of two things had to happen: either they had to reject the notion of a literal thousand years, or they had to reject the notion of the Roman Church, as well as its other Orthodox sisters as being the literal Millennial reign of Christ. If they had taken the latter route, then the role of the Pope and your Patriarchs would have been downgraded. No one should be surprised which one they chose.

DamianWarS · Oct 11, 2018

JM said:
Convince me the 1,000 years of Revelation must be understood as 1,000 literal years, please.

Yours in the Lord,

jm

why 1000 years? because the text says 1000 years and it is not unreasonable to think it refers to a literal amount of time.

It's also not unreasonable to think it does not refer to a literal 1000 years based on the style of Revelation but you make it out that you're puzzled why people would think this. They think it because it says it, what greater explanation do you need?

dad · Oct 11, 2018

JM said:
Convince me the 1,000 years of Revelation must be understood as 1,000 literal years, please.

Yours in the Lord,

jm

In that same time if a man dies at a hundred years old he will be considered a child. Have you reason to think that really means 'dies at seven years old, or seven million years old'? No. There is no reason to assume that the first 1000 years of the kingdom on earth are not special.

Benjamin Calvary · Oct 11, 2018

JM said:
Convince me the 1,000 years of Revelation must be understood as 1,000 literal years, please.

Yours in the Lord,

jm

If you are desiring to see evidence for such, then perhaps a prayerful study of Revelation 20 itself would be of use.

Isaiah 24 and Revelation 19-22 parallelism (short notes):

World Destroyed - Isaiah 24:1-20
High Ones on High - Isaiah 24:21
Kings of the Earth - Isaiah 24:21
Prisonsers in the Pit - Isaiah 24:22
Many Days - Isaiah 24:22
New Jeruslam/Zion - Isaiah 24:23
Reign Gloriously - Isaiah 24:23
Sun and Moon Ashamed - Isaiah 24:23
Remnant - Isaiah 4:3
Ancients - Isaiah 24:23

World Destroyed - Revelation 19:11-21; 16:18-21
Satan - Revelation 20:1-2
Kings - Revelation 19:19
Prison/Pit - Revelation 20:1-2
The Thousand Years - Revelation 20:1,2,3,4,5,6,7
New Jerusalem/Zion - Revelation 21:2
King of Kings - Revelation 19:11,16
No Need of Sun or Moon - Revelation 21:23
Remnant - Revelation 22:14
Heavenly Elders Council - Job 1-2; Revelation 4:4,10, 5:5,6,8,11,14, 7:11,13, 11:16,14:3, 19:4

It also parallels to Psalms 37.

Armageddon, the gathering to war against the Lamb (and his body) - Psalms 37:14,12,35
The Day of the LORD, the final thousand years, beginning, middle and ending - Psalms 37:13
Final Destruction of the Wicked - Psalms 37:1,2,9a,10,20,22b,28b,34b,36,38
Heavens & Earth Made New, saints reign upon the earth made new, forever - Psalms 37:3,9b,11,18,22a,28b,29,34a,37

It is dealing with normal earth time between the 2nd (John 14:1-3; 1 Thessalonians 4:16, etc) and 3rd Advents (Zechariah 14:1~; Revelation 20:7-11~) of Jesus Christ, known as "the Day of the LORD" (Isaiah 2:12, 13:6,9, 34:8; Jeremiah 46:10; Lamentations 2:22; Ezekiel 13:5, 30:3; Joel 1:15, 2:1,11,31, 3:14; Amos 5:18,20; Obadiah 1:15; Zephaniah 1:7,8,14,18, 2:2,3; Zechariah 14:1; Malachi 4:5; Acts 2:20; 1 Corinthians 5:5; 2 Corinthians 1:14; 1 Thessalonians 5:2; 2 Peter 3:10 -- 2 Peter 3:10, tied in context to 2 Peter 3:8, which is citing Psalms 90:4) or "the last day" (John 6:39,40,44,54, 11:24, 12:48) throughout scripture, and ties into 2 Peter 3:8; Psalms 90:4; Hosea 6:2; Ecclesiastes 6:6; John 11:6.

The location of this “reign” of Jesus and the saints, for “a thousand years” is never said to be on the plague wracked, utterly sin polluted and totally cursed and devastated “earth”, wherein even the upper heaven [atmosphere] is burned away by the second Advent [Genesis 3:17, 5:29, 8:21; Isaiah 34:4; 2 Peter 3:10-12; Revelation 6:14; 11:19, 15:1,6,8, 16:9,17-21, 18:4,8 21:9, 22:18 KJB]. So likewise for the passages of “Isaiah 2, 11, 65; Amos 9; Zechariah 14”. Read prayerfully and carefully for oneself. Where then is the “thousand year” reign of Jesus and the saints to be? It is to be in Heaven, the “third” [2 Corinthians 12:2 KJB].

The “reign upon the earth” comes after 1,000 years [Revelation 20:2,3,4,5,6,7 KJB], for the “saints” must be both resurrected and/or translated, glorified, and brought back to Heaven [John 14:1-4; 1 Thessalonians 4:17, etc KJB] at the Second Advent and First Great Resurrection, to “reign” in Heaven, for 1,000 years [Revelation 20:4,5a,6 KJB] going over the record books of the lost [1 Corinthians 6:2,3 KJB]:

[1] The “thousand years” reign “in Heaven” [Psalms 50:5; Matthew 5:3,8,10,12, 6:20, 13:30, 24:31; Mark 10:21, 13:27; Luke 6:23, 18:22, 23:43; John 14:2-3, 17:24; Colossians 1:5; Hebrews 10:34; 1 Peter 1:4; Revelation 7:9, 14:3, 19:1 KJB; “Paradise”, Luke 23:43; 2 Corinthians 12:4; Revelation 2:7 KJB] with Christ Jesus [1 Thessalonians 4:16-17; Revelation 20:6 KJB] and

[2] The “reign on earth” [“made new”, not this sin polluted Earth; 2 Peter 3:13; Isaiah 65:17, 66:22; Revelation 21:1 KJB] that lasts “forever and ever” [Revelation 5:10 KJB; “meek inherit earth” [“made new”, not this sin polluted Earth], Psalms 37:9,11,34; Proverbs 11:31; Isaiah 25:8, 65:21; Daniel 7:27; Matthew 5:5; Revelation 5:10 KJB].

As for the word "bottomless pit", as found in the GNT TR of Revelation 9:1,2,11, 11:7, 17:8, 20:1, it is the Koine Greek "αβυσσου" [abussou, or abyssou], in GNT TR of Revelation 20:3, it is again "αβυσσον" [abusson, or abysson], which in the transliterated English is the word "abyss", which according to the first use in Genesis, means the "deep", being in "darkness", and "without form and void [empty of/having no life]", thus is associated with a dark chaotic wilderness/desert [water or earth], symbolic of death/no life (see Revelation 9:1,2,11, 17:8, 20:1,3; Luke 8:31; Romans 10:7. See also the so-called LXX uses in (LXX) Genesis 1:2, 7:11, 8:2; Deuteronomy 8:7, 33:13; Job 38:16,30, 41:32 (41:24); Psalms 33:7 (32:7), 71:20 (70:20), 71:21 (70:21), 78:15 (77:15), 106:9 (105:9), 107:26 (106:26), 135:6 (134:6); Proverbs 8:24; Isaiah 44:27, 51:10, 63:13; and in the apocryphal books/texts of (LXX) Daniel 3:54; Wisdom 10:19; Sirach 24:5,29.), as per: Jeremiah 4:23-28, 25:15-38; Zephaniah 1:2-3,14-18; Isaiah 2:6-22, 11:4, 24:1-6,17-22, 34:1-17 and in Psalms 37:13 already mentioned above and in Psalms 149:8 (and surrounding context).

If one were to consider the so-called 'ECF' and the studies of others, a thread was kindly posted already on the subject by user 'EvangAlived', seen here (a great resource tool) - Ante-Nicene 'fathers' 7,000 year old earth, based on 7 days of Genesis & Psa. 90:4; 2 Pet. 3:8

It is also listed here in more detail in the first posting than on these forums - The 7 days of Genesis & 7,000 years old earth view (Ps. 90:4, II Pet. 3:8)), + Ante-Nicene view

It is also now online available as a download, as stated by user "EvangAlived" here - TinyUpload.com - best file hosting solution, with no limits, totaly free

Excellent material.

The 1,000 years 'sealing' away of Satan on the desolate earth (for he is bound by 'chain' of circumstance (Psalms 73:6; Lamentations 3:7), since the devil can easily break physical chains (Mark 5:4), is also tied directly to the '7 seals' by language, as see here: TinyUpload.com - best file hosting solution, with no limits, totaly free

Revelation 20:4, is directly tied to Daniel 7:22 (in its 4 "time" portions), by language (Revelation 20:4 "judgment was given unto them", Daniel 7:22 "judgment was given to the saints of the most High", which again ties into Psalms 149).

Revelation 20, is also directly ties to Revelation 9, 11, & 17, by language, speaking of the "the bottomless pit" "key" (9 & 20), "the king" (9), "beast" (11 & 17), and "dragon" (20).

Revelation 20, is also tied directly to Leviticus 16 & 23 by event:

Leviticus 16:8,10,20 -- Revelation 20:1
Leviticus 16:21-22 -- Revelation 20:2-3

DamianWarS · Oct 11, 2018

DavidPT said:
Since I take it be literal, can you convince me that it can't be literal?

What is one of the reasons I am convinced it has to be literal? For one thing, all throughout the OT and NT, when a cardinal number is followed by years, those amount of years are always taken as literal years every single time. That is the pattern. The question is, is 1000 a cardinal number or not? If it is, and that when it is followed by years, this same pattern has to apply here as well.

At least two ways to debunk this. 1---show that it is not always the case throughout the OT and NT, when a cardinal number is followed by years, those amount of years are always taken as literal years every single time. 2---show that 1000 is not a cardinal number.

why does revelation have to follow the same way other books of the bible use cardinal numbers?

shilohsfoal · Oct 12, 2018

HTacianas said:
To say that I do not believe the literal word of God is a fallacy.

I do not believe in your authority to set aside the canons of an ecumenical Council nor your authority to disregard the Nicene Creed. If you have that authority, where did you get it from?

Its amazing how much you remind me of others who asked the same question.

Mark 11:28 "By what authority are You doing these things?" they asked. "And who gave You the authority to do them?"

shilohsfoal · Oct 12, 2018

Benjamin Calvary said:
If you are desiring to see evidence for such, then perhaps a prayerful study of Revelation 20 itself would be of use.

Isaiah 24 and Revelation 19-22 parallelism (short notes):

World Destroyed - Isaiah 24:1-20
High Ones on High - Isaiah 24:21
Kings of the Earth - Isaiah 24:21
Prisonsers in the Pit - Isaiah 24:22
Many Days - Isaiah 24:22
New Jeruslam/Zion - Isaiah 24:23
Reign Gloriously - Isaiah 24:23
Sun and Moon Ashamed - Isaiah 24:23
Remnant - Isaiah 4:3
Ancients - Isaiah 24:23

World Destroyed - Revelation 19:11-21; 16:18-21
Satan - Revelation 20:1-2
Kings - Revelation 19:19
Prison/Pit - Revelation 20:1-2
The Thousand Years - Revelation 20:1,2,3,4,5,6,7
New Jerusalem/Zion - Revelation 21:2
King of Kings - Revelation 19:11,16
No Need of Sun or Moon - Revelation 21:23
Remnant - Revelation 22:14
Heavenly Elders Council - Job 1-2; Revelation 4:4,10, 5:5,6,8,11,14, 7:11,13, 11:16,14:3, 19:4

It also parallels to Psalms 37.

Armageddon, the gathering to war against the Lamb (and his body) - Psalms 37:14,12,35
The Day of the LORD, the final thousand years, beginning, middle and ending - Psalms 37:13
Final Destruction of the Wicked - Psalms 37:1,2,9a,10,20,22b,28b,34b,36,38
Heavens & Earth Made New, saints reign upon the earth made new, forever - Psalms 37:3,9b,11,18,22a,28b,29,34a,37

It is dealing with normal earth time between the 2nd (John 14:1-3; 1 Thessalonians 4:16, etc) and 3rd Advents (Zechariah 14:1~; Revelation 20:7-11~) of Jesus Christ, known as "the Day of the LORD" (Isaiah 2:12, 13:6,9, 34:8; Jeremiah 46:10; Lamentations 2:22; Ezekiel 13:5, 30:3; Joel 1:15, 2:1,11,31, 3:14; Amos 5:18,20; Obadiah 1:15; Zephaniah 1:7,8,14,18, 2:2,3; Zechariah 14:1; Malachi 4:5; Acts 2:20; 1 Corinthians 5:5; 2 Corinthians 1:14; 1 Thessalonians 5:2; 2 Peter 3:10 -- 2 Peter 3:10, tied in context to 2 Peter 3:8, which is citing Psalms 90:4) or "the last day" (John 6:39,40,44,54, 11:24, 12:48) throughout scripture, and ties into 2 Peter 3:8; Psalms 90:4; Hosea 6:2; Ecclesiastes 6:6; John 11:6.

The location of this “reign” of Jesus and the saints, for “a thousand years” is never said to be on the plague wracked, utterly sin polluted and totally cursed and devastated “earth”, wherein even the upper heaven [atmosphere] is burned away by the second Advent [Genesis 3:17, 5:29, 8:21; Isaiah 34:4; 2 Peter 3:10-12; Revelation 6:14; 11:19, 15:1,6,8, 16:9,17-21, 18:4,8 21:9, 22:18 KJB]. So likewise for the passages of “Isaiah 2, 11, 65; Amos 9; Zechariah 14”. Read prayerfully and carefully for oneself. Where then is the “thousand year” reign of Jesus and the saints to be? It is to be in Heaven, the “third” [2 Corinthians 12:2 KJB].

The “reign upon the earth” comes after 1,000 years [Revelation 20:2,3,4,5,6,7 KJB], for the “saints” must be both resurrected and/or translated, glorified, and brought back to Heaven [John 14:1-4; 1 Thessalonians 4:17, etc KJB] at the Second Advent and First Great Resurrection, to “reign” in Heaven, for 1,000 years [Revelation 20:4,5a,6 KJB] going over the record books of the lost [1 Corinthians 6:2,3 KJB]:

[1] The “thousand years” reign “in Heaven” [Psalms 50:5; Matthew 5:3,8,10,12, 6:20, 13:30, 24:31; Mark 10:21, 13:27; Luke 6:23, 18:22, 23:43; John 14:2-3, 17:24; Colossians 1:5; Hebrews 10:34; 1 Peter 1:4; Revelation 7:9, 14:3, 19:1 KJB; “Paradise”, Luke 23:43; 2 Corinthians 12:4; Revelation 2:7 KJB] with Christ Jesus [1 Thessalonians 4:16-17; Revelation 20:6 KJB] and

[2] The “reign on earth” [“made new”, not this sin polluted Earth; 2 Peter 3:13; Isaiah 65:17, 66:22; Revelation 21:1 KJB] that lasts “forever and ever” [Revelation 5:10 KJB; “meek inherit earth” [“made new”, not this sin polluted Earth], Psalms 37:9,11,34; Proverbs 11:31; Isaiah 25:8, 65:21; Daniel 7:27; Matthew 5:5; Revelation 5:10 KJB].

As for the word "bottomless pit", as found in the GNT TR of Revelation 9:1,2,11, 11:7, 17:8, 20:1, it is the Koine Greek "αβυσσου" [abussou, or abyssou], in GNT TR of Revelation 20:3, it is again "αβυσσον" [abusson, or abysson], which in the transliterated English is the word "abyss", which according to the first use in Genesis, means the "deep", being in "darkness", and "without form and void [empty of/having no life]", thus is associated with a dark chaotic wilderness/desert [water or earth], symbolic of death/no life (see Revelation 9:1,2,11, 17:8, 20:1,3; Luke 8:31; Romans 10:7. See also the so-called LXX uses in (LXX) Genesis 1:2, 7:11, 8:2; Deuteronomy 8:7, 33:13; Job 38:16,30, 41:32 (41:24); Psalms 33:7 (32:7), 71:20 (70:20), 71:21 (70:21), 78:15 (77:15), 106:9 (105:9), 107:26 (106:26), 135:6 (134:6); Proverbs 8:24; Isaiah 44:27, 51:10, 63:13; and in the apocryphal books/texts of (LXX) Daniel 3:54; Wisdom 10:19; Sirach 24:5,29.), as per: Jeremiah 4:23-28, 25:15-38; Zephaniah 1:2-3,14-18; Isaiah 2:6-22, 11:4, 24:1-6,17-22, 34:1-17 and in Psalms 37:13 already mentioned above and in Psalms 149:8 (and surrounding context).

If one were to consider the so-called 'ECF' and the studies of others, a thread was kindly posted already on the subject by user 'EvangAlived', seen here (a great resource tool) - Ante-Nicene 'fathers' 7,000 year old earth, based on 7 days of Genesis & Psa. 90:4; 2 Pet. 3:8

It is also listed here in more detail in the first posting than on these forums - The 7 days of Genesis & 7,000 years old earth view (Ps. 90:4, II Pet. 3:8)), + Ante-Nicene view

It is also now online available as a download, as stated by user "EvangAlived" here - TinyUpload.com - best file hosting solution, with no limits, totaly free

Excellent material.

The 1,000 years 'sealing' away of Satan on the desolate earth (for he is bound by 'chain' of circumstance (Psalms 73:6; Lamentations 3:7), since the devil can easily break physical chains (Mark 5:4), is also tied directly to the '7 seals' by language, as see here: TinyUpload.com - best file hosting solution, with no limits, totaly free

Revelation 20:4, is directly tied to Daniel 7:22 (in its 4 "time" portions), by language (Revelation 20:4 "judgment was given unto them", Daniel 7:22 "judgment was given to the saints of the most High", which again ties into Psalms 149).

Revelation 20, is also directly ties to Revelation 9, 11, & 17, by language, speaking of the "the bottomless pit" "key" (9 & 20), "the king" (9), "beast" (11 & 17), and "dragon" (20).

Revelation 20, is also tied directly to Leviticus 16 & 23 by event:

Leviticus 16:8,10,20 -- Revelation 20:1
Leviticus 16:21-22 -- Revelation 20:2-3

The bible states the 1000 years shall take pace upon the earth.And there are actual boundaries given in scripture.

As of now a seven headed ten horned beast along with a little horn is residing there but it shall be taken from hi,and given to those self same saints who reign with Christ.

Daniel 7:17 These four great beasts are four kings who will arise from the earth.
Daniel 7:18 But the saints of the Most High will receive the kingdom and possess it forever--yes, forever and ever.'
Daniel 7:19 Then I wanted to know the true meaning of the fourth beast, which was different from all the others--extremely terrifying--with iron teeth and bronze claws, devouring, crushing, and trampling underfoot whatever was left.
Daniel 7:20 I also wanted to know about the ten horns on its head and the other horn that came up, before which three of them fell--the horn whose appearance was more imposing than the others, with eyes and with a mouth that spoke words of arrogance.
Daniel 7:21 As I watched, this horn was waging war against the saints and prevailing against them,
Daniel 7:22 until the Ancient of Days arrived and pronounced judgment in favor of the saints of the Most High, and the time came for them to possess the kingdom.
Daniel 7:23 This is what he said: 'The fourth beast is a fourth kingdom that will appear on the earth, different from all the other kingdoms, and it will devour the whole earth, trample it down, and crush it.
Daniel 7:24 And the ten horns are ten kings who will rise from this kingdom. After them another king, different from the earlier ones, will rise and subdue three kings.
Daniel 7:25 He will speak out against the Most High and oppress the saints of the Most High, intending to change the set times and laws, and the saints will be given into his hand for a time, and times, and half a time.
Daniel 7:26 But the court will convene, and his dominion will be taken away and completely destroyed forever.
Daniel 7:27 Then the sovereignty, dominion, and greatness of the kingdoms under all of heaven will be given to the people, the saints of the Most High. His kingdom will be an everlasting kingdom, and all rulers will serve and obey Him.'

Its no great mystery where this kingdom is.It was promised to abrahams seed the first time Abraham set eyes on it.

Galatians 3:16 The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. The Scripture does not say, "and to seeds," meaning many, but "and to your seed," meaning One, who is Christ.

Dave L · Oct 12, 2018

DavidPT said:
the Greek word for chain is halusis. All of the below are where this same Greek word is also used. Which verses below support your theory above?

Mark 5:4, Acts 12:7
Eph 6:20
Mark 5:3, Luke 8:29, Acts 12:6, Acts 21:33
Acts 28:20, 2 Ti 1:16

It's not a literal chain. How do you bind a spirit (Satan) with a physical chain?

mmksparbud · Oct 12, 2018

JM said:
Convince me the 1,000 years of Revelation must be understood as 1,000 literal years, please.

Yours in the Lord,

jm

Yes--I agree it is literal. And it makes perfect sense when you also take the concept of the Jewish land sabbath.

Exo 23:10 And six years thou shalt sow thy land, and shalt gather in the fruits thereof:
Exo 23:11 But the seventh year thou shalt let it rest and lie still; that the poor of thy people may eat: and what they leave the beasts of the field shall eat. In like manner thou shalt deal with thy vineyard, and with thy oliveyard.
Exo 23:12 Six days thou shalt do thy work, and on the seventh day thou shalt rest: that thine ox and thine ass may rest, and the son of thy handmaid, and the stranger, may be refreshed.

Six days--then the Sabbath day--six years, then a Sabbath week for the land---6000 years---then 1000 years rest for the whole world. We will be in heaven with Him---Satan is bound to an empty world for all the wicked are dead.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Benjamin Calvary · Oct 12, 2018

shilohsfoal said:
The bible states the 1000 years shall take pace upon the earth...

Show me the specific verses (in the mouth of two or three witnesses) that the 1,000 years reign of the saints, takes place on earth, and not as I showed from the scripture:

[1] The “thousand years” reign “in Heaven” [Psalms 50:5; Matthew 5:3,8,10,12, 6:20, 13:30, 24:31; Mark 10:21, 13:27; Luke 6:23, 18:22, 23:43; John 14:2-3, 17:24; Colossians 1:5; Hebrews 10:34; 1 Peter 1:4; Revelation 7:9, 14:3, 19:1 KJB; “Paradise”, Luke 23:43; 2 Corinthians 12:4; Revelation 2:7 KJB] with Christ Jesus [1 Thessalonians 4:16-17; Revelation 20:6 KJB] and

[2] The “reign on earth” [“made new”, not this sin polluted Earth; 2 Peter 3:13; Isaiah 65:17, 66:22; Revelation 21:1 KJB] that lasts “forever and ever” [Revelation 5:10 KJB; “meek inherit earth” [“made new”, not this sin polluted Earth], Psalms 37:9,11,34; Proverbs 11:31; Isaiah 25:8, 65:21; Daniel 7:27; Matthew 5:5; Revelation 5:10 KJB].

I'll wait.

What happens is that people cite the texts which say "reign on the earth", but nowhere does it state that this is the 1,000 year period, and confuse it with the eternal (for ever and ever) reign, after all is said an done.

I cited Daniel, properly. Daniel 7:22, when the saints "possess" the Kingdom, is after a "time" happens. Notice that the "time" came. That doesn't happen until after the events I already cited happen.

As for the word "bottomless pit", as found in the GNT TR of Revelation 9:1,2,11, 11:7, 17:8, 20:1, it is the Koine Greek "αβυσσου" [abussou, or abyssou], in GNT TR of Revelation 20:3, it is again "αβυσσον" [abusson, or abysson], which in the transliterated English is the word "abyss", which according to the first use in Genesis, means the "deep", being in "darkness", and "without form and void [empty of/having no life]", thus is associated with a dark chaotic wilderness/desert [water or earth], symbolic of death/no life (see Revelation 9:1,2,11, 17:8, 20:1,3; Luke 8:31; Romans 10:7. See also the so-called LXX uses in (LXX) Genesis 1:2, 7:11, 8:2; Deuteronomy 8:7, 33:13; Job 38:16,30, 41:32 (41:24); Psalms 33:7 (32:7), 71:20 (70:20), 71:21 (70:21), 78:15 (77:15), 106:9 (105:9), 107:26 (106:26), 135:6 (134:6); Proverbs 8:24; Isaiah 44:27, 51:10, 63:13; and in the apocryphal books/texts of (LXX) Daniel 3:54; Wisdom 10:19; Sirach 24:5,29.), as per: Jeremiah 4:23-28, 25:15-38; Zephaniah 1:2-3,14-18; Isaiah 2:6-22, 11:4, 24:1-6,17-22, 34:1-17 and in Psalms 37:13 already mentioned above and in Psalms 149:8 (and surrounding context).

Therefore, again, and without obfuscation, here is what I require from you in your next reply:

Show me the specific verses (in the mouth of two or three witnesses) that the 1,000 years reign of the saints, takes place on earth, and not as I showed from the scripture.

BABerean2 · Oct 12, 2018

mmksparbud said:
Yes--I agree it is literal. And it makes perfect sense when you also take the concept of the Jewish land sabbath.

Revelation 20 is full of symbolic language.

As Brother Dave pointed out Satan cannot be bound by a steel chain from the hardware store.

Will a hole in the ground with a metal lid on it hold Satan?

The "time of the judgment of the dead" is found in Revelation 11:18.
When is the judgment found in Revelation 20?

Christ returns "in flaming fire" at His Second Coming in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10.
When does the fire come in Revelation 20?

If the sheep and goat judgment of Matthew 25:31-46 is literal, there will be no mortals left after the Second Coming of Christ.

Since we have Christ returning in Revelation 16:15-16 and also in chapter 19, we know the Book of Revelation is not in chronological order.

.

mmksparbud · Oct 12, 2018

BABerean2 said:
Revelation 20 is full of symbolic language.

As Brother Dave pointed out Satan cannot be bound by a steel chain from the hardware store.

Will a hole in the ground with a metal lid on it hold Satan?

The "time of the judgment of the dead" is found in Revelation 11:18.
When is the judgment found in Revelation 20?

Christ returns "in flaming fire" at His Second Coming in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10.
When does the fire come in Revelation 20?

If the sheep and goat judgment of Matthew 25:31-46 is literal, there will be no mortals left after the Second Coming of Christ.

Since we have Christ returning in Revelation 16:15-16 and also in chapter 19, we know the Book of Revelation is not in chronological order.

.

No, not always in chronological order. No, Satan can not be bound by a chain---he is bound to an empty destroyed earth with not one living thing in it. Just him and his unholy angels---glaring at each other and contemplating their navels for a 1000 years!

2Pe_3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
2Pe_3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

2Th_2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

When Jesus returns---the saved dead will be resurrected, and along with the saved living will be changed and go up to Jesus. The lost living will be destroyed at His coming--the lost dead will remain dead
Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

All the saved are with Jesus---all the wicked are dead--there is no one left---an empty destroyed earth is his bottomless pit for 1000 years. It is alluded to in Jeremiah.

4:23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.
Jer 4:24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
Jer 4:25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
Jer 4:26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.
Jer 4:27 For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.
Jer 4:28 For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black: because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.

HTacianas · Oct 12, 2018

shilohsfoal said:
Its amazing how much you remind me of others who asked the same question.

Mark 11:28 "By what authority are You doing these things?" they asked. "And who gave You the authority to do them?"

So I'm a pharisee and you're Jesus.

If we can examine this without the hyperbole, you have put me in a position of having to make a choice. My two options are the Ecumenical Councils or you. I know where the Ecumenical Councils got their authority from, it came from Jesus Christ:

Mat 18:19 - Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.

I can take the side of the Ecumenical Councils, or I can take your side. I am giving you the opportunity to state your case and convince me.

Benjamin Calvary · Oct 12, 2018

BABerean2 said:
....

Seriously? Steve G.? He (though I like him as a personality) doesn't have much of a position on anything (including prophecy, and pretty much just throws all the erroneous options on the table), and is seriously in error on basic material, demonstrable upon request.

I would like to enter his forums, and share with him a thing or two (everytime I attempt to email him I get nothing or a bounced) ...

HTacianas · Oct 12, 2018

nonaeroterraqueous said:
381 A.D. was right at the time when the church ceased to be spiritual movement and transformed into more of a political movement. That was around the time that the Roman church came into being and retroactively claimed lineage all the way back to Peter, while the Orthodoxy developed into a full-blown state-sponsored institution. It was at that time that the church came to see itself as the Millennial Reign of Christ, his kingdom on Earth, and the Patriarch of Rome came to see himself as the Vicar of Christ, a literal and direct substitute for our savior as head of his Millennial Kingdom, until his return. Under these circumstances, it should not be surprising that the church was officially Amillennial.

However, the literal interpretation of the thousand years was still up for grabs, even at this time. When the first thousand years came to an end there was widespread expectation of Christ's return. People sold their land, gave away property and abstained from all sex, even marital sex. Why? Because the church was officially Amillennial. If they were living in the Earthly reign of Christ, then that Millennial Reign was to last until 1000 A. D. When Christ did not in fact return, one of two things had to happen: either they had to reject the notion of a literal thousand years, or they had to reject the notion of the Roman Church, as well as its other Orthodox sisters as being the literal Millennial reign of Christ. If they had taken the latter route, then the role of the Pope and your Patriarchs would have been downgraded. No one should be surprised which one they chose.

The rejection of a literal 1000 year reign of Christ on the earth happened long before 1000 AD. Some sense of euphoria or panic or whatever other reason for people to have believed Jesus was returning in 1000 AD by necessity contradicted the Nicene Creed.

Why a literal 1,000 years?

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