Does persevering in the faith imply earning salvation?

aiki · Oct 10, 2018

ClementofA said:
Gal. 5:3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
Gal. 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

What is the "grace" of which Paul writes here? It is that state in which a man stands that requires of him no more than to trust in Christ as his Redeemer, and Justifier, and Sanctifier in order to be fully accepted by God. When a man thinks he can be more acceptable to God by dint of his own obedience, that his keeping of God's commands (in the case of the Galatians, the OT law of circumcision) adds to the finished, perfect work of Christ at Calvary, he has fallen from the "grace wherein he stands" and must now work to achieve by law-keeping what God in Christ has already achieved for him and offers freely to him as a gracious gift.

Paul, however, does not mean by the phrase "fallen from grace" that the Galatian believers were un-saved (and so, by implication, saved by their being careful not to fall from grace). He continues to refer to those "fallen from grace" as "brethren" (vs. 11, vs. 13), warning them that by falling from grace they have become "entangled again with the yoke of bondage" (Galatians 5:1) to the law, not lost their salvation entirely.

ClementofA said:
1 Tim.1:19 holding on to faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected and so have suffered shipwreck with regard to the faith.20 Among them are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan to be taught not to blaspheme.

What does it mean to have "suffered shipwreck" in regards to one's faith? If one has a bias toward a saved-and-lost view, it is easy to assume that Paul means by the phrase that one has lost one's salvation. Not having such a view, I don't assume Paul means this. A ship that is wrecked is not necessarily utterly destroyed or unmade. Such a ship may no longer float and safely carry passengers or cargo, it's hull may be dashed open upon the rocks, listing badly to one side, but it remains a ship nonetheless. Paul appears to be indicating, then, not that Hymenaeus and Philetus were un-saved by their challenges to Paul's teachings, but that they were badly damaged in their faith by the things they were choosing to believe (and urge, wrongly, upon other believers).

Wordkeeper · Oct 10, 2018

Tolworth John said:
This verse explains that all both jew and gentile are saved by Gods action, that we do not earn or deserve our salvation.

Wrong. Not saved. Included.

Ephesians 2:11Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called “uncircumcised” by those who call themselves “the circumcision” (which is done in the body by human hands)— 12remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. 13But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near by the blood of Christ.

Wordkeeper · Oct 10, 2018

Phoebe Ann said:
Romans 4
1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? 2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. 3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. 4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. 6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness. 10 How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision. 11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also: 12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he
had being yet uncircumcised.

13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith. 14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect: 15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all, 17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were. 18 Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations; according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be. 19 And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sara's womb: 20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God; 21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform. 22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness. 23Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him; 24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; 25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

Again speaking about inclusion: Abraham was included in the People of God by grace. But he was judged by a loyal work:

Genesis 22:12He said, “Do not stretch out your hand against the lad, and do nothing to him; for now I know that you fear God, since you have not withheld your son, your only son, from Me.”

James 2:21Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up Isaac his son on the altar? 22You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected; 23and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “AND ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS,” and he was called the friend of God. 24You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

Dave-W · Oct 11, 2018

ClementofA said:
Why?

Because in our own human strength, we are not up to the job.

eleos1954 · Oct 11, 2018

ClementofA said:
Does salvation depend on your libertarian free will choices? If so, then how is that not a work you do or an earning of your salvation?

Does persevering in the faith by libertarian free will, enduring unto the end, cooperating with God, & obeying Christ - as opposed to thrusting away one's faith & becoming lost - imply earning salvation by works?

The free will choice, is to choose Christ or not. When one does .... then the Holy Spirit (Christ in the person) begins His work in the believer ... and this is a life-long process. We stumble along the way, as He works within the believer.

John 15:5

I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing.

Acts 17:28

For “‘In him we live and move and have our being’; as even some of your own poets have said, “‘For we are indeed his offspring.’

Rescued One · Oct 11, 2018

Wordkeeper said:
Again speaking about inclusion: Abraham was included in the People of God by grace. But he was judged by a loyal work:

Genesis 22:12He said, “Do not stretch out your hand against the lad, and do nothing to him; for now I know that you fear God, since you have not withheld your son, your only son, from Me.”

James 2:21Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up Isaac his son on the altar? 22You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected; 23and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “AND ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS,” and he was called the friend of God. 24You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

God is the source of Abraham's works. We are unprofitable servants.

Luke 16:15
And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.

Luke 17
9 Doth he thank that servant because he did the things that were commanded him? I trow not. 10 So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.

Luke 18
13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

1 Chronicles 29
14 But who am I, and what is my people, that we should be able to offer so willingly after this sort? for all things come of thee, and of thine own have we given thee.

Titus 3
3 For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another. 4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, 5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

2 Timothy 1
9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Christ purchased our salvation. We love Him because He first loved us.

John 14
23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. 24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

Romans 8
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

The hard lessons I've endured were blessings in disguise.

Rescued One · Oct 11, 2018

eleos1954 said:
The free will choice, is to choose Christ or not. When one does .... then the Holy Spirit (Christ in the person) begins His work in the believer ... and this is a life-long process. We stumble along the way, as He works within the believer.

John 3
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. 8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Romans 9
14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. 15For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. 17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. 18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

Titus 3
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

BNR32FAN · Oct 11, 2018

ClementofA said:
Does persevering in the faith by libertarian free will, enduring unto the end, cooperating with God, & obeying Christ - as opposed to thrusting away one's faith & becoming lost - imply earning salvation by works?

Col.1:22 But now he has reconciled you by Christ's physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation--
Col.1:23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

1 Cor 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and [that] the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
1 Cor 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which [temple] ye are.

Gal. 5:3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
Gal. 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

1 Tim.1:19 holding on to faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected and so have suffered shipwreck with regard to the faith.20 Among them are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan to be taught not to blaspheme.

I think James 2:14-26 is a great example. James mentions two types of faith. A saving faith that produces works and a dead and useless faith that doesn’t produce works which is not a saving faith. It is not the works that saves a person but the type of faith they have. The Greek word for faith is pistis meaning not only to believe but also faithfulness, trustworthiness, fidelity, and loyalty. These qualities have to do with devotion. If we love someone we are devoted to serving them. God desires our love. Devotion is not a work but a state of mind or heart. When we love God we are devoted to serving Him thru the guidance of the Holy Spirit. This is how faith produces works. Our works are not attributed to us they are attributed to God because they are from the Holy Spirit who is God. Our works are manifest so that God’s glory can be seen by the world and so that others might come into repentance.

Wordkeeper · Oct 11, 2018

Phoebe Ann said:
God is the source of Abraham's works. We are unprofitable servants.

Luke 16:15
And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.

Luke 17
9 Doth he thank that servant because he did the things that were commanded him? I trow not. 10 So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.

Luke 18
13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

1 Chronicles 29
14 But who am I, and what is my people, that we should be able to offer so willingly after this sort? for all things come of thee, and of thine own have we given thee.

Titus 3
3 For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another. 4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, 5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

2 Timothy 1
9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Christ purchased our salvation. We love Him because He first loved us.

John 14
23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. 24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

Romans 8
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

The hard lessons I've endured were blessings in disguise.

Please post verses that show judgment is not according to works.

BNR32FAN · Oct 11, 2018

Wordkeeper said:
Again speaking about inclusion: Abraham was included in the People of God by grace. But he was judged by a loyal work:

Genesis 22:12He said, “Do not stretch out your hand against the lad, and do nothing to him; for now I know that you fear God, since you have not withheld your son, your only son, from Me.”

James 2:21Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up Isaac his son on the altar? 22You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected; 23and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “AND ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS,” and he was called the friend of God. 24You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

The word justified there also means to show or evince one to be righteous. Many people stumble with that verse. Abraham wasn’t made right by his works he was made right by believing.

Tolworth John · Oct 11, 2018

Wordkeeper said:
Wrong. Not saved. Included.

Ephesians 2:11Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called “uncircumcised” by those who call themselves “the circumcision” (which is done in the body by human hands)— 12remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. 13But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near by the blood of Christ.

You need to read what it says.
eph 2 v 8:- For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith

It says we have salvation because of the gift of God. It is not inclusion, it is not aimed at a minority group it is aimmed at everyone.

Dave L · Oct 11, 2018

Dave L said:
Free will = salvation by works from start to finish.

It's worse. It is salvation for the self-righteous and not for those who cannot save themselves........Smile on that for awhile....

Rescued One · Oct 11, 2018

Wordkeeper said:
Please post verses that show judgment is not according to works.

I did. Here are more:

John 3
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

John 5
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Romans 3
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Wordkeeper · Oct 11, 2018

Tolworth John said:
You need to read what it says.
eph 2 v 8:- For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith

It says we have salvation because of the gift of God. It is not inclusion, it is not aimed at a minority group it is aimmed at everyone.

Do you have a different Bible? Because mine says the passage is addressing Gentiles :

Ephesians 2:11Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called “uncircumcised” by those who call themselves “the circumcision” (which is done in the body by human hands)—

The cutting off of Israel sent a tremendous shock through the Ancient Near East.

The Jews tried to recover by insisting on circumcising all the Christians.

The Gentiles insisted on keeping their old status: not circumcised. They reasoned that God was happier with uncircumcised people rather than circumcised. Paul announced not so: All have sinned, there is none righteous, all have fallen short of the glory of God. The same argument of Romans 3:10. Gentiles were not more worthy.

Gentiles were included in the "Grace Through Faith Type Salvation". All the Greek scholars agree that "it" qualifies the neuter antecedent, the phrase "saved by grace through faith".

Even this inclusion was a gift. God made Israel stumble by confusing her: she thought she was the seed, but Christ was sent and became a stumbling block to her.

The only reason God opened the Covenant to Gentiles was because Israel had been made to transgress. So that all could be made sinners, so that all needed mercy.

Romans 11:30For just as you once were disobedient to God, but now have been shown mercy because of their disobedience,31so these also now have been disobedient, that because of the mercy shown to you they also may now be shown mercy. 32For God has shut up all in disobedience so that He may show mercy to all.

Wordkeeper · Oct 11, 2018

Phoebe Ann said:
I did. Here are more:

John 3
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

John 5
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Romans 3
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Then how do you explain 2 Corinthians 5 that we must all appear before the Messiah’s judgment seat, so that we may each receive what was done in the body, good or bad?

Or, back in Romans, what about 14:10–12, where each of us will give an account to God, at his judgment seat? How do you fit that into your system?

For Paul, future justification will be in accordance with the life that has been lived.

And the whole of Romans 5-8—which generations of anxious exegetes have struggled to fit with a Protestant reading of chapter 3—is there to explain how it works: how it works in theory, how it works in practice.

The practice involves reckoning that if one is in the Messiah, one is dead to sin and alive to God; and then, on that basis, and in the power of the Spirit, putting to death the deeds of the body. If that is not happening, then according to the logic of Rom 8:5–11 it must be questioned whether one really belongs to the Messiah at all.

Rescued One · Oct 11, 2018

Wordkeeper said:
Then how do you explain 2 Corinthians 5 that we must all appear before the Messiah’s judgment seat, so that we may each receive what was done in the body, good or bad?

Or, back in Romans, what about 14:10–12, where each of us will give an account to God, at his judgment seat? How do you fit that into your system?

For Paul, future justification will be in accordance with the life that has been lived.

And the whole of Romans 5-8—which generations of anxious exegetes have struggled to fit with a Protestant reading of chapter 3—is there to explain how it works: how it works in theory, how it works in practice.

The practice involves reckoning that if one is in the Messiah, one is dead to sin and alive to God; and then, on that basis, and in the power of the Spirit, putting to death the deeds of the body. If that is not happening, then according to the logic of Rom 8:5–11 it must be questioned whether one really belongs to the Messiah at all.

I agree that those who never received the new birth, don't really love and obey Christ.

Philippians 2:13
For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

1 John 5
9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son. 10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. 11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

Wordkeeper · Oct 11, 2018

Phoebe Ann said:
I agree that those who never received the new birth, don't really love and obey Christ.

Philippians 2:13
For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

1 John 5
9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son. 10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. 11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

Phillipians 2:12Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, 13for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his good purpose.

Continue to work, continue to work.

1 John 5:9We accept human testimony, but God’s testimony is greater because it is the testimony of God, which he has given about his Son. 10Whoever believes in the Son of God accepts this testimony. Whoever does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because they have not believed the testimony God has given about his Son. 11And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life.

13I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.

What is the testimony? It is that the Kingdom of God, eternal type of living, has arrived amongst men.

John 5:39"You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me;

Luke 11:19And if I drive out demons by Beelzebul, by whom do your sons drive them out? So then, they will be your judges. 20But if I drive out demons by the finger of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.

That means the proof that God gave Moses to convince men to leave serving selfish interests for bread that perishes and start serving the interests of God for food which never perishes has come to the new man, humanity in Christ:

Exodus 8:19"This is the finger of God," the magicians said to Pharaoh. But Pharaoh's heart was hardened, and he would not listen to them, just as the LORD had said.

Now we must manifest that Kingdom power:

Matthew 5:16Even so let your light shine before men; that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven.

If your Pastor asks you to evangelise, rescue people out of perishable living, ask him to lay hands on you, otherwise you wont be able to do your work, get them to leave Egypt:

Luke 10:17The seventy returned with joy, saying, “Lord, even the demons are subject to us in Your name.”18And He said to them, “I was watching Satan fall from heaven like lightning. 19“Behold, I have given you authority to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing will injure you. 20“Nevertheless do not rejoice in this, that the spirits are subject to you, but rejoice that your names are recorded in heaven.”

Exodus 32:32Yet now, if You would only forgive their sin... But if not, please blot me out of the book that You have written."

Revelation 20:15Anyone whose name was not found written in the book
of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

Tolworth John · Oct 12, 2018

Wordkeeper said:
Do you have a different Bible? Because mine says the passage is addressing Gentiles :

Ephesians 2:11Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called “uncircumcised” by those who call themselves “the circumcision” (which is done in the body by human hands)—

The cutting off of Israel sent a tremendous shock through the Ancient Near East.

The Jews tried to recover by insisting on circumcising all the Christians.

The Gentiles insisted on keeping their old status: not circumcised. They reasoned that God was happier with uncircumcised people rather than circumcised. Paul announced not so: All have sinned, there is none righteous, all have fallen short of the glory of God. The same argument of Romans 3:10. Gentiles were not more worthy.

Gentiles were included in the "Grace Through Faith Type Salvation". All the Greek scholars agree that "it" qualifies the neuter antecedent, the phrase "saved by grace through faith".

Even this inclusion was a gift. God made Israel stumble by confusing her: she thought she was the seed, but Christ was sent and became a stumbling block to her.

The only reason God opened the Covenant to Gentiles was because Israel had been made to transgress. So that all could be made sinners, so that all needed mercy.

Romans 11:30For just as you once were disobedient to God, but now have been shown mercy because of their disobedience,31so these also now have been disobedient, that because of the mercy shown to you they also may now be shown mercy. 32For God has shut up all in disobedience so that He may show mercy to all.

It might surprise you but unless you are jewish by birth, you are a gentile, so the passage applies to you.

Wordkeeper · Oct 12, 2018

Tolworth John said:
It might surprise you but unless you are jewish by birth, you are a gentile, so the passage applies to you.

Therefore, addressing their sudden inclusion. In other words, it's discussing inclusion, how the Gentile is now included, not salvation, how a person moves forward from inclusion to completion, perfection.

Tolworth John · Oct 12, 2018

Go

Wordkeeper said:
Therefore, addressing their sudden inclusion. In other words, it's discussing inclusion, how the Gentile is now included, not salvation, how a person moves forward from inclusion to completion, perfection.

Going back yet again to what the passage says.
eph 2 v8+9 talks about salvation by faith.

If gentiles have been saved then yes they have also been adopted into God's family etc etc

But they get there because God has saved them, not b ecause of what they have done.

Does persevering in the faith imply earning salvation?

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...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

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