True students of the bible always find religious lies in every denominational church IMO. There is no perfect 'church' yet IMO.
As far as I'm concerned, if your spirit died or was dead, then you'd die or be dead physically. Jesus never died physically until '
HE gave up his spirit, into the Father's hand'....THEN '
He breathed his last. Or as bible believers used to correctly say....'EXPIRED'.
James tells us that without the spirit your body is literally dead. A point which I think agrees with why Jesus literally died.
JAM 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead,....
I think that, for me, a correct understanding of this Eph 2:1 verse is an equivalent understanding, of a line in the movie "
The Green Mile". A movie concerning inmates on 'death row'. When those prisoners walked by, guards/inmates would say
"Dead man walking" The point being, they weren't anymore physically 'dead' than the prodigal son was physically 'dead' when his father saw him returning and said; "
This my son who was DEAD is alive again."
The same understanding from above can also be applied to the following verse, which again simply means your body is under a similar 'death sentence' even though the spirit of CHRIST IS IN YOU....HELLLO!!!
ROM 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the spirit is life because of righteousness.
Shouldn't this person above, with 'CHRIST IN HIM/HER' be spiritually alive????? And yet, their walking around in a 'body which is dead because of sin'....or under a 'death sentence'.
Lastly, when Jesus raised a young maiden from the DEAD, scripture says it was because Jesus called her spirit to return. Uhhh does that mean a dead spirit gives life to a dead/expired body???? I don't think so personally.
LUK 8:49 While he was still speaking, a man from the ruler's house came and said, "Your daughter is dead; do not trouble the Teacher any more."...8:53 And they laughed at him, knowing that she was dead. 54 But taking her by the hand he called, saying, "Child, arise." 55 And her spirit returned, and she got up at once; and he directed that something should be given her to eat.
I'm of the persuasion that the spirit you are born with is just as alive as the evil spirits are alive. I'm also of the persuasion that your 'sin nature' is in your flesh. Even Paul said "In my flesh dwells no good thing." Uhhh would that mean Paul forgot his born again spirit and the spirit of Christ were 'in there'? No that isn't what he meant either. He knew where the sin nature resided. And it wasn't in his 'body' but in his'flesh'....there is a difference.
ROM 8:3 For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do: sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh...
I greatly appreciate your response. You have certainly given me a lot to think about and study out.
The quote by James is a very clear challenge. The word He uses, pneuma, is translated breath or spirit, as opposed to the word for soul. It is clearly used to mean spirit much more than breath in the New Testament; but I can't help but wonder if the better translation in James 2:26 wouldn't have been breath. For the body without breath is unquestionably dead, even to an unbeliever.
There are five verses where soul and spirit are both used in the same context and they are very interesting verses (see below if interested). In fact, Paul even refers to the saving of the spirit, the soul, and the body. God refers to Himself as having a soul. So, Scripture confirms that there is a spirit, a soul, and a body composing a man.
And, yet, when Jesus and Stephen are dying, they specifically surrender their spirits, unless they are using "pneuma" to mean breath, as in "receive my breath". In each case, when they said this, they both, immediately, breathed their last breath. I understand that pneuma is translated spirit consistently, so one could easily argue against that. But, James 2:26 could easily be understood in that context to--as pneuma meaning "breath", since James also refers to saving a man's soul (psuche)--not spirit--from death in James 5.
So, the question still remains, are we born spiritually dead (though with a soul and body) or are we born spiritually alive but so entrenched in the flesh nature--even those who are born to a healthy born-again set of parents--that we aren't spiritually alive for long, necessitating our being born again to come into a relationship with God?
Thank you again! If you want to read more of what I found and summarized above, see below:
In the Old Testament, when we were first created, God breathed into our nostrils:
"And Jehovah God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." (ASV Genesis 2:7)
The word used there for soul is not ruwach (the word for spirit) but:
5315 vp,n< nephesh {neh'-fesh}
Meaning: 1) soul, self, life, creature, person, appetite, mind, living being, desire, emotion, passion 1a) that which breathes, the breathing substance or being, soul, the inner being of man 1b) living being 1c) living being (with life in the blood) 1d) the man himself, self, person or individual 1e) seat of the appetites 1f) seat of emotions and passions 1g) activity of mind 1g1) dubious 1h) activity of the will 1h1) dubious 1i) activity of the character 1i1) dubious
Origin: from 05314; TWOT - 1395a; n f
Usage: AV - soul 475, life 117, person 29, mind 15, heart 15, creature 9, body 8, himself 8, yourselves 6, dead 5, will 4, desire 4, man 3, themselves 3, any 3, appetite 2, misc 45; 751
And in that context, this makes sense. When God made us, He breathed into our flesh and we came alive.
In the New Testament, Matthew's Gospel in Greek was translated to use a different word than James used. For example, Jesus said:
"And be not afraid of them that kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell." (ASV Matthew 10:28)
That word, psuche, as opposed to pneuma, was used multiple times in the New Testament:
5590 yuch, psuche {psoo-khay'}
Meaning: 1) breath 1a) the breath of life 1a1) the vital force which animates the body and shows itself in breathing 1a1a) of animals 1a12) of men 1b) life 1c) that in which there is life 1c1) a living being, a living soul 2) the soul 2a) the seat of the feelings, desires, affections, aversions (our heart, soul etc.) 2b) the (human) soul in so far as it is constituted that by the right use of the aids offered it by God it can attain its highest end and secure eternal blessedness, the soul regarded as a moral being designed for everlasting life 2c) the soul as an essence which differs from the body and is not dissolved by death (distinguished from other parts of the body)
Origin: from 5594; TDNT - 9:608,1342; n f
Usage: AV - soul 58, life 40, mind 3, heart 1, heartily + 1537 1, not tr 2; 105
4151 pneu/ma pneuma {pnyoo'-mah}
Meaning: 1) a movement of air (a gentle blast 1a) of the wind, hence the wind itself 1b) breath of nostrils or mouth 2) the spirit, i.e. the vital principal by which the body is animated 2a) the rational spirit, the power by which the human being feels, thinks, decides 2b) the soul 3) a spirit, i.e. a simple essence, devoid of all or at least all grosser matter, and possessed of the power of knowing, desiring, deciding, and acting 3a) a life giving spirit 3b) a human soul that has left the body 3c) a spirit higher than man but lower than God, i.e. an angel 3c1) used of demons, or evil spirits, who were conceived as inhabiting the bodies of men 3c2) the spiritual nature of Christ, higher than the highest angels and equal to God, the divine nature of Christ 4) of God 4a) God's power and agency distinguishable in thought from his essence in itself considered 4a1) manifest in the course of affairs 4a2) by its influence upon the souls productive in the theocratic body (the church) of all the higher spiritual gifts and blessings 4a3) the third person of the trinity, the God the Holy Spirit 5) the disposition or influence which fills and governs the soul of any one 5a) the efficient source of any power, affection, emotion, desire, etc.
Origin: from 4154; TDNT - 6:332,876; n n
Usage: AV - Spirit 111, Holy Ghost 89, Spirit (of God) 13, Spirit (of the Lord) 5, (My) Spirit 3, Spirit (of truth) 3, Spirit (of Christ) 2, human (spirit) 49, (evil) spirit 47, spirit (general) 26, spirit 8, (Jesus' own) spirit 6, (Jesus' own) ghost 2, misc 21; 385
Here is an five interesting verses where both are used together. The first is a prophetic word from God through Elijah. At least three of the remaining four are given to us through the Apostle Paul:
"Behold, my servant whom I have chosen; My beloved in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my Spirit upon him, And he shall declare judgment to the Gentiles." (ASV Matthew 12:18)
"So also it is written, The first man Adam became a living soul. The last Adam became a life-giving spirit." (ASV 1 Corinthians 15:45)
"And the God of peace himself sanctify you wholly; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved entire, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ." (ASV 1 Thessalonians 5:23)
"For the word of God is living, and active, and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing even to the dividing of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and quick to discern the thoughts and intents of the heart." (ASV Hebrews 4:12)
"Only let your manner of life be worthy of the gospel of Christ: that, whether I come and see you or be absent, I may hear of your state, that ye stand fast in one spirit, with one soul striving for the faith of the gospel;" (ASV Philippians 1:27)
In fact, the word, psuche, is used to refer to the person/life/being of a human 36 times in the New Testament. Here are some particularly interesting ones:
ASV Mark 12:30 "and thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength."
ASV Mark 8:37 "For what should a man give in exchange for his soul?"
ASV Acts 2:27 "Because thou wilt not leave my soul unto Hades, Neither wilt thou give thy Holy One to see corruption."
ASV Acts 4:32 And the
multitude of them that believed were of one heart and soul: and not one of them said that aught of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.
ASV Romans 2:9 tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that worketh evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Greek;
ASV Hebrews 10:38 But my righteous one shall live by faith: And if he shrink back,
my soul hath no pleasure in him.
ASV Hebrews 10:39 But we are not of them that shrink back unto perdition; but of them that have
faith unto the saving of the soul.
ASV James 5:20 let him know, that he who converteth a sinner from the error of his way
shall save a soul from death, and shall cover a multitude of sins.
ASV 1 Peter 2:11 Beloved, I beseech you as sojourners and pilgrims, to
abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul;
ASV 3 John 1:2 Beloved, I pray that in all things thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.
ASV Revelation 16:3 And the second poured out his bowl into the sea; and it became blood as of a dead man; and
every living soul died, even the things that were in the sea.
When Stephen and Jesus, the only two we have record of doing so in the New Testament, surrendered something, they surrendered and asked God to receive their pneuma. \
ASV Acts 7:59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon the Lord, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit. (note: The greek word translated "receive my" actually means "take hold of", so it appears he is asking Jesus for active intervention on behalf of His spirit, not a passive receiving)
ASV Luke 23:46 "And Jesus, crying with a loud voice, said, Father, into thy hands I commend My Spirit: and having said this, he gave up the ghost."
Just a note: "he gave up the ghost" is a translation used three times in the KJV/ASV (the other two in Mark's account), it is translated from one Greek word, which doesn't mean that. It simply means:
1606 evkpne,w ekpneo {ek-pneh'-o}
Meaning: 1) to breathe out, breathe out one's life, breathe one's last, expire
Origin: from 1537 and 4154; TDNT - 6:452,876; v
Usage: AV - give up the ghost 3; 3
Is it possible that the translators mistranslated James 2:26. Consider this alternative translation:
"As the body without breath is dead, so faith without works is dead also." I think we can all agree that when a body stops breathing, it is dead.