THE LORD'S DAY IS THE SABBATH DAY NOT SUNDAY!

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LoveGodsWord

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Putting words in my mouth that I never said (again). Is that the same as bearing false witness? (seems so)

- Is work a violation of the Sabbath law? (yes)
- Did Jesus admit to working on the Sabbath? (yes)
- Was Jesus a sinner? (no)
- What can we conclude from the facts?

If Jesus worked on the Sabbath, but did not sin in doing so, what does this mean? Either Jesus changed the law, or he set it aside. Can the law be changed? (no, it would no longer be the law) Can the law be set aside? (yes, to make room for grace)

Not really Stephen, I was only showing the fallacy of your argument. Your trying to argue that Jesus broke God's 4th Commandment if he did then how could he be our perfect sacrifice? You say above that Jesus was not a sinner but if Jesus (accoding to you) broke God's 4th commandment than he commited sin because sin is the transgression of God's LAW *1 JOHN 3:4. This would make Jesus a sinner if you believe that he broke God's 4th commandment which is one of the 10 commandments (Exodus 20:1-17). So how you can say Jesus broke God's 4th commandment and Jesus is not a sinner does not make any sense.

Doing Good works on the Sabbath is not breaking God's 4th commandment. This is what Jesus came to teach us *MATTHEW 12:1-12. Jesus was never out doing his own work on the Sabbath building houses and furniture now was he? You may need to read what the actual 4th commandment states. It seems you do not understand it. *EXODUS 20:8-11 is a reference to doing our own work not doing God's WORK.

These are the very words of Jesus brother and they disagree with you.

MATTHEW 5:17-20
[17], Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.
[18], For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
[19], Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
[20], For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Hope this helps
 
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Saint Steven

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Not really Stephen, I was only showing the fallacy of your argument. Your trying to argue that Jesus broke God's 4th Commandment if he did then how could he be our perfect sacrifice? You say above that Jesus was not a sinner but if Jesus (accoding to you) broke God's 4th commandment than he commited sin because sin is the transgression of God's LAW *1 JOHN 3:4. This would make Jesus a sinner if you believe that he broke God's 4th commandment which is one of the 10 commandments (Exodus 20:1-17). So how you can say Jesus broke God's 4th commandment and Jesus is not a sinner does not make any sense.

Doing Good works on the Sabbath is not breaking God's 4th commandment. This is what Jesus came to teach us *MATTHEW 12:1-12. Jesus was never out doing his own work on the Sabbath building houses and furniture now was he? You may need to read what the actual 4th commandment states. It seems you do not understand it. *EXODUS 20:8-11 is a reference to doing our own work not doing God's WORK.

These are the very words of Jesus brother and they disagree with you.

MATTHEW 5:17-20
[17], Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.
[18], For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
[19], Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
[20], For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Hope this helps
Where does the law make provision for good works that would otherwise be a violation of the law?
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Where does the law make provision for good works that would otherwise be a violation of the law?

EXODUS 20:8-11 speciifically states the doing your own works on God's 7th Day SABBATH is breaking it.
MATTHEW 12:1-12 Jesus is stating it is lawful to do GOOD or God's WORK on the Sabbath.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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This is just another stall tactic, as I have asked you in every thread you start about the Sabbath many many times to provide the scripture where Jesus or His Apostles commanded or instructed the Church as to how to specifically observe the Sabbath under the New Covenant.


You never have.


Not one.


Your theology comes from the law of Moses.


Yet you deny the Sabbath requirement that Moses commanded.


You shall keep the Sabbath, therefore, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people. Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. Exodus 31:14-15

JLB

Not really JBL you either agree to have a discussion or you do not which is it?
Do you agree to answer my questions and respond to my posts with all the scriptures in them YES/NO? The only one stalling is you not agreeing to a discussion as I have already agreed. If you do not know what the OLD COVENANT was how can you know what the NEW COVENANT is? You mix up your SHADOW laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT *EXODUS 24:7; HEBEREWS 7-10 with God's eternal law that give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN AND RIGHTOEUSNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; PSALMS 119:172.
 
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StephenDiscipleofYHWH

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Romans 12:2
Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.
John 12:49-50
49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.
 
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StephenDiscipleofYHWH

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Hello brother StephenDiscipleofYHWH, yes it is a bit off topic and would be good for another thread and correct I do disagree. So I will just touch on your post a little here but happy to go through each scripture you have provided in another place.

For me personally I believe the health laws that God has given us still apply because it is the Word of God and I can't find anywhere in God's Word that says these laws have changed. If God says something we should obey him. He has given us health laws for a reason. However I do not judge in relation to food and drink.

2 CORINTHIANS 6:16, And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? FOR YOU ARE THE TEMPLE OF GOD; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

19, What? KNOW YOU NOT THAT YOUR BODY IS THE TEMPLE OF THE HOLY GHOST which is in you, which ye have of God, and YOU ARE NOT YOUR OWN?

the health laws were given to God's people because we are the temple of God and he is the live in us.........

1 CORINTHIANS 3:16, KNOW YOU NOT THAT YOU ARE THE TEMPLE OF GOD, and that the SPIRIT OF GOD DWELLS IN YOU? 17, IF ANY MAN DEFILES THE TEMPLE OF GOD, HIM SHALL GOD DESTROY; FOR THE TEMPLE OF GOD IS HOLY, WHICH TEMPLE YOU ARE.

This includes sin from the heart (Matthew 15:18).

These are some of the dietary laws God has given his people...

GENESIS 9:4 But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat.

DEUTERONOMY 15:23 Only THOU SHALT NOT EAT THE BLOOD thereof; thou shalt pour it upon the ground as water.

LEVITICUS 19:26 Ye shall not eat anything with the blood: neither shall ye use enchantment, nor observe times.

1 SAMUEL 14:34 And Saul said, Disperse yourselves among the people, and say unto them, Bring me hither every man his ox, and every man his sheep, and slay them here, and eat; and SIN NOT AGAINST THE LORD IN EATING WITH THE BLOOD. And all the people brought every man his ox with him that night, and slew them there.

most meats unless kosher have the blood in it...

LEVITICUS 11:47 TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE CLEAN AND THE UNCLEAN, and between the beast that may be eaten and the beast that may not be eaten.

We are not to eat unclean foods...

DEUTERONOMY14:3-21

3, THOU SHALT NOT EAT ANY ABOMINABLE THING.
4, These are the beasts which ye shall eat: the ox, the sheep, and the goat,
5, The hart, and the roebuck, and the fallow deer, and the wild goat, and the pygarg, and the wild ox, and the chamois.
6, And every beast that parteth the hoof, and cleaveth the cleft into two claws, and cheweth the cud among the beasts, that ye shall eat.
7, Nevertheless these ye shall not eat of them that chew the cud, or of them that divide the cloven hoof; as the camel, and the hare, and the coney: for they chew the cud, but divide not the hoof; therefore they are unclean unto you.
8, And the swine, because it divideth the hoof, yet cheweth not the cud, it is unclean unto you: ye shall not eat of their flesh, nor touch their dead carcase.
9, These ye shall eat of all that are in the waters: all that have fins and scales shall ye eat:
10, And whatsoever hath not fins and scales ye may not eat; it is unclean unto you.
11, Of all clean birds ye shall eat.
12, But these are they of which ye shall not eat: the eagle, and the ossifrage, and the ospray,
13, And the glede, and the kite, and the vulture after his kind,
14, And every raven after his kind,
15, And the owl, and the night hawk, and the cuckow, and the hawk after his kind,
16, The little owl, and the great owl, and the swan,
17, And the pelican, and the gier eagle, and the cormorant,
18, And the stork, and the heron after her kind, and the lapwing, and the bat.
19, And every creeping thing that flieth is unclean unto you: they shall not be eaten.
20, But of all clean fowls ye may eat.
21, Ye shall not eat of any thing that dieth of itself: thou shalt give it unto the stranger that is in thy gates, that he may eat it; or thou mayest sell it unto an alien: for thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God. Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk.

ISAIAH 65:2-8
2, I have spread out my hands all the day unto a rebellious people, which walked in a way that was not good, after their own thoughts; 3, A people that provoked me to anger continually to my face; that sacrifices in gardens, and burns incense upon altars of brick;

4, Which remain among the graves, and lodge in the monuments, WHICH EATS SWINES FLESH, and BROTH OF ABOMINABLE THINGS ARE IN THEIR VESSELS; 5, Which say, Stand by thyself, come not near to me; for I am holier than thou. These are a smoke in my nose, a fire that burns all the day. 6, Behold, it is written before me: I will not keep silence, but will recompense, even recompense into their bosom, 7, Your iniquities, and the iniquities of your fathers together, saith the LORD, which have burned incense upon the mountains, and blasphemed me upon the hills: therefore will I measure their former work into their bosom.

8, Thus saith the LORD, As the new wine is found in the cluster, and one saith, Destroy it not; for a blessing is in it: so will I do for my servants' sake, that I may not destroy them all.

ISAIAH 66:4-18
4, I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not. 5, Hear the word of the LORD, ye that tremble at his word; Your brethren that hated you, that cast you out for my name's sake, said, Let the LORD be glorified: but he shall appear to your joy, and they shall be ashamed. 6, A voice of noise from the city, a voice from the temple, a voice of the LORD that rendersrecompence to his enemies.7, Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child. 8, Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children. 9, Shall I bring to the birth, and not cause to bring forth? saith the LORD: shall I cause to bring forth, and shut the womb? saith thy God. 10, Rejoice ye with Jerusalem, and be glad with her, all ye that love her: rejoice for joy with her, all ye that mourn for her:11, That ye may suck, and be satisfied with the breasts of her consolations; that ye may milk out, and be delighted with the abundance of her glory. 12, For thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will extend peace to her like a river, and the glory of the Gentiles like a flowing stream: then shall ye suck, ye shall be borne upon her sides, and be dandled upon her knees.13, As one whom his mother comforts, so will I comfort you; and ye shall be comforted in Jerusalem. 14, And when ye see this, your heart shall rejoice, and your bones shall flourish like an herb: and the hand of the LORD shall be known toward his servants, and his indignation toward his enemies. 15, For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire. 16, For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many. 17, They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, EATING SWINES FLESH, and THE ABOMINATION, AND THE MOUSE, SHALL BE CONSUMED TOGETHER, SAYS THE LORD. 18, For I know their works and their thoughts: it shall come, that I will gather all nations and tongues; and they shall come, and see my glory....

22, For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain. 23, And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD. 24, And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcasses of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

EZEKIEL 22:26 Her priests have violated my law, and have profaned mine holy things: they have put no difference between the holy and profane, NEITHER HAVE THEY MADE A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE CLEAN AND THE UNCLEAN <see Leviticus 11:47>, and have hid their eyes from my SABBATHS, and I am profaned among them.

Some believe that Peter's vision means we can ignore the dietary laws that were given by God...

ACTS 10:1-28
1, There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band, 2, A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God always. 3, He saw in a vision evidently about the ninth hour of the day an angel of God coming in to him, and saying unto him, Cornelius. 4, And when he looked on him, he was afraid, and said, What is it, Lord? And he said unto him, Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God. 5, And now send men to Joppa, and call for one Simon, whose surname is Peter: 6, He lodges with one Simon a tanner, whose house is by the sea side: he shall tell thee what you should do. 7, And when the angel which spake unto Cornelius was departed, he called two of his household servants, and a devout soldier of them that waited on him continually; 8, And when he had declared all these things unto them, he sent them to Joppa.................

9, On the morrow, as they went on their journey, and drew nigh unto the city, Peter went up upon the housetop to pray about the sixth hour:

10, And he became very hungry, and would have eaten: but while they made ready, he fell into a trance,

11, And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth:

12, Wherein were all manner of four footed beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.

13, And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.

14, But Peter said, NOT SO LORD FOR I HAVE NEVER EATEN ANYTHING THAT IS UNCLEAN AND COMMON.

15, And the voice spake unto him again the second time, WHAT GOD HAS CLEANSED, THAT DO NOT CALL COMMON.

16, This was done thrice: and the vessel was received up again into heaven.

17, Now while Peter doubted in himself what this vision which he had seen should mean, behold, the men which were sent from Cornelius had made inquiry for Simon's house, and stood before the gate,

Now the question here to consider is what was it that God had cleansed and we should not call common, this is what Peter was thinking about. While Peter was thinking about what was the meaning of the vision The praying gentile that believed God was at his gate asking for Peter...

18, And called, and asked whether Simon, which was surnamed Peter, were lodged there.

19, While Peter thought on the vision, the Spirit said unto him, Behold, three men seek thee.

20, Arise therefore, and get thee down, and go with them, doubting nothing: for I have sent them.

What was it that God was teaching Peter.....

27, And as he talked with him, he went in, and found many that were come together.

28, And he said unto them, YOU KNOW THAT IT IS AN UNLAWFUL THING FOR A MAN THAT IS A JEW TO KEEP COMPANY, OR COME UNTO ONE OF ANOTHER NATION; BUT GOD HAS SHOWN ME THAT I SHOULD NOT CALL ANY MAN COMMON OR UNCLEAN

So the vision was not about saying that all foods are clean but that now all man it clean and that the Believers can preach the Gospel to the Gentiles...

…………

1 Timothy 4:4-5 For every creature of God is good, and nothing is to be refused if it is received with thanksgiving; 5 for it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

This is a reference of food that can be eaten that is sanctified by the word of God. This is a reference back to what foods God says are clean and unclean not a reference saying you can eat anything.

Hope this helps
Well brother if your willing to start a thread I will post my full view on the subject in it. Or if you would like to discuss it over message I will be happy to do that as well.

God Bless Brother
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Well brother if your willing to start a thread I will post my full view on the subject in it. Or if you would like to discuss it over message I will be happy to do that as well.

God Bless Brother

Either way is fine with me but I do not have time to run another thread ATM. I have already gone through and looked at all the scriptures you have provided earlier and addressed them my end but did not see the point of posting them as the responding post would have been too big and this was not the topic of the OP.

May God bless you as you seek him through his Word
 
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StephenDiscipleofYHWH

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Either way is fine with me but I do not have time to run another thread ATM. I have already gone through and looked at all the scriptures you have provided earlier and addressed them my end but did not see the point of posting them as the responding post would have been too big and this was not the topic of the OP.

May God bless you as you seek him through his Word
Alright I'll just send it to you by message then brother.
 
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Saint Steven

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EXODUS 20:8-11 speciifically states the doing your own works on God's 7th Day SABBATH is breaking it.
MATTHEW 12:1-12 Jesus is stating it is lawful to do GOOD or God's WORK on the Sabbath.
That serves to prove my point.
We agree that Jesus said it was lawful to do good works on the Sabbath, but the law doesn't say that. So, how can what Jesus did be lawful? Only by his own declaration. (not according to the existing law) And not without him changing the law.

You have failed to show where the law make provision for good works that would otherwise be a violation of the law?

Maybe you are beginning to see what I am driving at here. Was Jesus avoiding breaking the law by changing it? By replacing it? Or even putting it aside? (part of replacing it)
 
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Saint Steven

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John 12:49-50
49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.
Good to see that you finally discovered the law written on our hearts, not the Ten Commandments, but God's voice. Those were the commandments Jesus was following.
 
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StephenDiscipleofYHWH

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Good to see that you finally discovered the law written on our hearts, not the Ten Commandments, but God's voice. Those were the commandments Jesus was following.
Exactly the Law written in our hearts(tables of Flesh) the Law of Christ/the Moral law. Which are the Commandments given by God.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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That serves to prove my point.
We agree that Jesus said it was lawful to do good works on the Sabbath, but the law doesn't say that. So, how can what Jesus did be lawful? Only by his own declaration. (not according to the existing law) And not without him changing the law. You have failed to show where the law make provision for good works that would otherwise be a violation of the law? Maybe you are beginning to see what I am driving at here. Was Jesus avoiding breaking the law by changing it? By replacing it? Or even putting it aside? (part of replacing it)

No not at all. I think you just did not like the answer provided with the scriptures. God's 4th Commandment *EXODUS 20:8-11 specifically states what not to do. Doing any of these things break it. There is nothing written in the 4th commandment about doing Good or Doing God's WORK on the Sabbath is there?

In the days of Jesus the religious teachers of the day had placed so many man made traditions around Sabbath keeping that it had become a burden to the people. It was though in their eyes MANKIND was made for the Sabbath. It was so bad in fact that these religious teachers were constantly looking for ways to accuse Jesus of breaking the Sabbath (Matthew 12:1-2; 10; Mark 3:2'; Luke 6:1-2). Jesus rebuked these religious teachers by saying that the Sabbath was made for MAN and NOT MAN for the SABBATH (Mark 2:27 and that he was the CREATOR or LORD of the Sabbath (Mark 2:28) and it was LAWFUL to do GOOD on the SABBATH (Matthew 12:12)

*Now Jesus did not do his own work on the Sabbath did he? Therefore he did not break it.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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It is my right to do so. (or not) Only a bully would demand answers as if he is interrogating prisoners. That's sociopathic behavior. (or worse) I don't care for long posts either. I don't like to write them, and I rarely read them.

Then you are not having a discussion now are you.
 
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Exactly the Law written in our hearts(tables of Flesh) the Law of Christ/the Moral law. Which are the Commandments given by God.
Perhaps you didn't follow what I said. I meant the good works which God prepared in advance for us to do. Individualized instructions that we receive in the moment.

Ephesians 2:10
For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.
 
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Saint Steven

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No not at all. I think you just did not like the answer provided with the scriptures. God's 4th Commandment *EXODUS 20:8-11 specifically states what not to do. Doing any of these things break it. There is nothing written in the 4th commandment about doing Good or Doing God's WORK on the Sabbath is there?

In the days of Jesus the religious teachers of the day had placed so many man made traditions around Sabbath keeping that it had become a burden to the people. It was though in their eyes MANKIND was made for the Sabbath. It was so bad in fact that these religious teachers were constantly looking for ways to accuse Jesus of breaking the Sabbath (Matthew 12:1-2; 10; Mark 3:2'; Luke 6:1-2). Jesus rebuked these religious teachers by saying that the Sabbath was made for MAN and NOT MAN for the SABBATH (Mark 2:27 and that he was the CREATOR or LORD of the Sabbath (Mark 2:28) and it was LAWFUL to do GOOD on the SABBATH (Matthew 12:12)

*Now Jesus did not do his own work on the Sabbath did he? Therefore he did not break it.
How does that apply specifically to what Jesus was doing? Working and gathering food on the Sabbath. Asking a man to carry his mattress. Things like that.
 
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