As a Christian, it is important, no imperative, that we love the sinner in order to lead them to grace.
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Appreciating people
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~Anastasia~
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We should always try to appreciate other people. It is good to "make excuses" for people - not because it really excuses them (their sin is between themselves and God ultimately) ... but because it helps us to not judge them and at the same time get puffed up ourselves because "we are not like that sinner".
Have you ever noticed that when we are in a huge hurry for something urgent, we might make excuses for ourselves for driving a little faster, or taking that little break in traffic? After all, we are late for work, or for an important medical appointment, or there's been an emergency and we are needed, etc. Yet when someone does it to us, our first inclination might be to think they are just being an obnoxious jerk. (At least those were the way my thoughts used to run - Lord help me.)
Anyway, I have found it infinitely more beneficial to allow the other person whatever I can think of for their reason. Yes, they just cut me off and almost caused an accident, but maybe they just got a call their child is in the emergency room. Someone was terribly rude to me at the supermarket, but maybe they had an awful day and just lost their job, or got bad news from the doctor. If we go about in our thoughts trying to understand and extend compassion to others for whatever they might do, and assign the best motives possible to them whenever we can - it makes the job of loving others and thinking less of ourselves so much easier. With practice it becomes natural.
Why people charge so much for a single meter? Well ... it's a common enough business practice. Maybe they never really thought about it. Maybe they consider it a convenience to offer to break up a roll. Maybe they see it as potentially saving money and keeping extra unnecessary goods out of someone's storage space. Who knows? Try to think the best of them and leave it at that. If I can't think of a good reason for what someone is doing, I just blame myself for not being creative enough. If I've had enough practice already thinking the best of other folks, the tendency carries over even when I can't come up with a good reason. But often I am able to develop a lot of compassion for people I actually interact with or see on the road, and I can pray for them. I don't really know their situation. But at least I don't make my heart harder and more proud by reacting as humans often tend to do. And if I pray for them, maybe it helps them in the end too.
Have you ever noticed that when we are in a huge hurry for something urgent, we might make excuses for ourselves for driving a little faster, or taking that little break in traffic? After all, we are late for work, or for an important medical appointment, or there's been an emergency and we are needed, etc. Yet when someone does it to us, our first inclination might be to think they are just being an obnoxious jerk. (At least those were the way my thoughts used to run - Lord help me.)
Anyway, I have found it infinitely more beneficial to allow the other person whatever I can think of for their reason. Yes, they just cut me off and almost caused an accident, but maybe they just got a call their child is in the emergency room. Someone was terribly rude to me at the supermarket, but maybe they had an awful day and just lost their job, or got bad news from the doctor. If we go about in our thoughts trying to understand and extend compassion to others for whatever they might do, and assign the best motives possible to them whenever we can - it makes the job of loving others and thinking less of ourselves so much easier. With practice it becomes natural.
Why people charge so much for a single meter? Well ... it's a common enough business practice. Maybe they never really thought about it. Maybe they consider it a convenience to offer to break up a roll. Maybe they see it as potentially saving money and keeping extra unnecessary goods out of someone's storage space. Who knows? Try to think the best of them and leave it at that. If I can't think of a good reason for what someone is doing, I just blame myself for not being creative enough. If I've had enough practice already thinking the best of other folks, the tendency carries over even when I can't come up with a good reason. But often I am able to develop a lot of compassion for people I actually interact with or see on the road, and I can pray for them. I don't really know their situation. But at least I don't make my heart harder and more proud by reacting as humans often tend to do. And if I pray for them, maybe it helps them in the end too.
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Hmmm, well yeah I could have been more specific. I wasn't really talking about being cut off in traffic, that's more of a rudeness than a wrongness. The day easily goes on and it hasn't changed the course of it..
Anyhow, I have come to realise that the idea I had toward peace, just isn't practical at all. It would be too wrong to find excuses for the wrongness that some people do.
I suppose I have to be content, ultimately, in order to remain who I am in holy spirit. So, try to be more as a child and let those wrong ones be wrong as a child does when their parents are wrong (except to also know that I do not need to concede to their wrongness - an authority that children haven't yet formed).
I guess that's the purpose of scriptures like Matthew 10:14 and Proverbs 27:12 with Proverbs 27:22 and Proverbs 26:4.
Still, there is value in the idea of looking toward the good in them, as to find the light of Christ that we are made to be (Colossians 1:16).
Who is a God like You
pardoning iniquity, overlooking transgression,
for the remnant of His heritage?
He will not retain His anger forever,
because He delights in mercy.
Micah 7:18
Anyhow, I have come to realise that the idea I had toward peace, just isn't practical at all. It would be too wrong to find excuses for the wrongness that some people do.
I suppose I have to be content, ultimately, in order to remain who I am in holy spirit. So, try to be more as a child and let those wrong ones be wrong as a child does when their parents are wrong (except to also know that I do not need to concede to their wrongness - an authority that children haven't yet formed).
I guess that's the purpose of scriptures like Matthew 10:14 and Proverbs 27:12 with Proverbs 27:22 and Proverbs 26:4.
Still, there is value in the idea of looking toward the good in them, as to find the light of Christ that we are made to be (Colossians 1:16).
Who is a God like You
pardoning iniquity, overlooking transgression,
for the remnant of His heritage?
He will not retain His anger forever,
because He delights in mercy.
Micah 7:18
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~Anastasia~
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I don't mean (to be clear) that we should call evil good. There's always a danger in being misunderstood.
Maybe I should have said it's more an exercise in putting ourself in someone's else's place, and trying to put the best possible understanding on others.
People may do evil things certainly. But in the absence of truly objective evil, it's a very bad idea to assign evil motives to others. And as far as I can see, selling any item by the piece at a higher cost per unit than the whole isn't inherently evil. It's standard business practice. If we assume bad motives for such a thing, we risk entrenching the habit of judging others not in the way we are commanded to judge, but in the way we are warned not to do (their motives, hearts, salvation).
I hope I haven't misrepresented what I intended to say. There's always that risk with this topic.
Maybe I should have said it's more an exercise in putting ourself in someone's else's place, and trying to put the best possible understanding on others.
People may do evil things certainly. But in the absence of truly objective evil, it's a very bad idea to assign evil motives to others. And as far as I can see, selling any item by the piece at a higher cost per unit than the whole isn't inherently evil. It's standard business practice. If we assume bad motives for such a thing, we risk entrenching the habit of judging others not in the way we are commanded to judge, but in the way we are warned not to do (their motives, hearts, salvation).
I hope I haven't misrepresented what I intended to say. There's always that risk with this topic.
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"If only I had a traveller's lodging place in the wilderness, then I might leave my people and get away from them! For they are all adulterers, a bunch of traitors."
From my experience of speaking with those who have become so embittered from their experiences of speaking with other Christians, their having turned away "thinking Christians are crazy", it is actually the lies and hypocrisy of those who have taken to preach false doctrine in the name of Jesus that is responsible for the desolation (eg: 1 Corinthians 14:23).
They cling to their beliefs and oppose truth when it is manifest in their midst. They bend their tongues like a bow. Lies, not faithfulness prevail in the land.
"For they go from evil to evil and do not know me," says Adonai.
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GTW27
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Knowing what is in man, gives understanding to why they do what they do, and why they say what they say, and why they believe(the lie) what they believe. How can we not love them," for truly, they know not what they do". Looking for good in man, is like looking for sight, in a blind man.First, let the blind man see(feel) the Good(Him) in us, then perhaps in time they also will see.
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I wish it were that simple, truly. I am speaking of (and you have no idea what my OP was about), those who refuse to listen when listening would show them the wrong they do. Look what such types did to Jesus, rather having Barabbas. See how they covered their ears and dragged Stephen outside to stone him. No, such types I cannot appreciate. They are as much to me a brood of vipers as they were to Jesus.
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Sure, as some further advice, consider what love is described as through 1 Corinthians 13, as understanding your motive to speak on this thread. Verse 6 is my favourite one:
it does not rejoice over injustice but rejoices in the truth;
Knowing the truth will set you free.
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GTW27
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Blessings in Christ Jesus! My motive to write on your Op is purely to state that truly they know not what they do. You do not have to apreciate them that do such things, but you are called to love them. Love overcomes all things, bares all things, and endures all things, including them. They only do what their father does. And I thank you once again for your kind words.Do you not remember that I was the one that paid you a compliment once on these boards? And if you must judge, judge with righteous(His) judgement. Have a Blessed day!
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Hmmm, no I do not remember your compliment! (if you could jog my memory I would be interested to know the context for that).
The trouble I am having, it seems, is not that I am not able to love the ones who, as you say, "know not what they do", while they persist to do what is wrong after I have told them that what they are doing is wrong. Sofaras that goes, there is a distinction between those I can't love and those I don't appreciate, the difference being that I can love those I don't appreciate so long as they remain contrite and able to receive correction.
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I think this is a complicated question and I thank you for raising it because it is something I also struggle with. For instance we have this from Paul: "Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things." 1 Corinthians 13.7 (ESV). I think one interpretation of this is that we should believe in the best in others and this is something that I try to do. That is I try to give other people the benefit of the doubt. But I try not to let myself get taken advantage of (that is believe everything someone tells me) as we should "Look out for the dogs, look out for the evildoers..." (Philippians 3:2 ESV) and also "The simple believes everything, but the prudent gives thought to his steps" (Proverbs 14:15 ESV). So there is a balance but I definitely try to assume the best unless circumstances or the Lord indicate to me otherwise.
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It is a struggle of endurance, to remain in the spirit of love, despite that the world all around us has waxed cold with iniquity. The problem I find, as Anastasia has mentioned, is that the world makes sin "normal", so that I am despised, unappreciated, for teaching the righteousness of Torah.. and the world suffers because it does not care about righteousness. Now, granted that Jesus lived in a culture where He had scripture at His disposal, as the entire culture was adjudicated according to scripture. Now, however, the culture thinks of scripture as a hobby and the laws adjudicate increasingly against righteousness, so that sin itself is encouraged by law. Furthermore, Christians teach, as Anastasia has done, that it is just a normal part of life. I don't appreciate that. This is why Christianity is indistinct. This is why I am wrongly thought of when I speak of The Gospel. I do not appreciate that. Most seriously, I struggle to love the ones who so wrongly dare to do opposite to righteousness, only because they have some desire to exert their power over me. (That was expressed a bit in the OP, BTW). They are liars, and I just cannot love liars.
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That theology introduces conflict with some key principles of the faith, as found in Psalms 119:113-115, Psalms 139:21, John 20:23, Proverbs 17:15, for example.
Matthew 5:46 and Matthew 6:15 seem like the closest match for what you have stated here:
"If you love only those who love you, what gain can you have?"
And
"If you forgive others their transgressions, Your Heavenly Father will also forgive you, but if you do not forgive others, neither will Your Heavenly Father forgive your transgressions".
If you look carefully, these are not commandments as you have said, but as advice toward our choices.
.. It is a digression though, and I wouldn't like you to think that I am not loving or unforgiving. If you had seen the OP, you would have been more equipped to participate in this thread without having got the wrong idea.
Anyhow, because the conversation has got to this point, I should show that there is other scripture that sometimes requires us to not forgive, or to restrain our love (more examples can be seen in 2 John 1:10-11, Matthew 18:17, Matthew 10:13-15), and which compromise would be to let wickedness triumph (Proverbs 25:26).
.. anyhow, all I have said is that I can't love liars, which I meant more specifically not those who tell lies, but those who oppose the truth:
Do I not hate those who hate You, Adonai?
Do I not loathe those who rise against You?
I hate them with total hatred—
I consider them my enemies.
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