GOD'S character

Hillsage said:

Ive written a number of articles also. I started to enumerate them here, but after several minutes I decided who cares, and deleted it. So let’s just deal with the facts of your post concerning my post. Number one; your post said nothing that either refuted OR explained my scriptural supported Exodus post which pointed out the weakness of poster #5 and his comment. Secondly, concerning your post, is the weakness of proof implying that there’s some ‘law of God’ which isn’t inherently written in the heart of every human being, according to scripture Romans 2:14. This is what leads me to the position which I think pretty much negates all the opinions of what I call the ‘Jewish wannabes’ in the church today. The ‘written’ physical laws which were inspired by the ‘name/nature’ of Jehovah God were written for physical Israel which came after Jacob became Israel.

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Your post is just so filled with kindness and love toward those who draw conclusions you don't (Jewish wannabe's, really???). As for your "points," you said Abraham didn't know the Torah but Genesis 26:5 directly and succinctly opposes your view. You're welcome to retain that view, but I hold to the notion that Abraham obeyed God's laws and commandments just as the bible says he did.

Have a great day. I won't respond to you again until you apologize for the Jewish wannabe comment. That both demeans the Jewish people and the practices that Jesus himself took part in!

Original Happy Camper said:

Hebrews 13:8
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
Malachi 3:6
For I am the Lord, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

Love God with all your heart, soul, and mind
First four of the ten commandments tells us how to love GOD.

and love each other as Jesus loves us.
Last six of the ten commandments tells us how to love our neighbor.

Please provide your methods of how to love God and your neighbor.

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God gave more than 10 commandments. What happened to the dietary laws given in Leviticus? Peter ate food with the Gentiles that was forbidden for Jews to eat. Also the commandment that all Jews must be circumcised. Who was it that determined circumcision is no longer necessary? The church in Jerusalem made the decision. What scriptures did they refer to in order to come to this decision? They had no scriptures. They came to this decision the same way the church has always made decisions by ecumenical council. The collective members together with the guidance of the Holy Spirit determined the course of action the church would take. Sunday worship was established the same way.

Original Happy Camper said:

Only definition of sin in the Biblet
1 John 3:4
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

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Or not! Nothing in this verse about the law OR transgression.

Romans 14:23 whatsover is not of faith is sin.

This being a ‘verse’ whose compete written ‘context’ is in opposition to ‘sin’ being reduced to your apparent ‘letter of the law’ definition.

Adam and Eve sinned thus the law was in the Garden of Eden.

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And the only law we know of in the garden was “Don’t eat the fruit or you’ll die”. Which of ‘The Ten’ is that? Or where is ‘that commandment’ ever part of any law applied to you or me or anyone?

Cain Killed his brother over a sacrifice to the Lord that was rejected.

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Was that the reason? Or was the reason because of what Cain may have said in response to the “word” God spoke to Cain, and which Cain relaid to Able in verse 8? A conversation we know nothing about?

Thus the Sanctuary laws has to be in the beginning as was the Ten Commandments

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Simply your opinion Based upon a ‘leap’ which you think is logical, whereas I do not.
So far the only law revealed has been ‘the law of sin leads to death’

Read and Understand
Genesis 4 King James Version (KJV)
16 And Cain went out from the presence of the Lord, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden.

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I have “read”. And as far as “understanding” is concerned, tell me why Cain was still in “the presence of the Lord” even after killing Cain? Especially since the POV of nominal Christianity is that even Adam and Eve lost the ‘presence of God’ when kicked out of the Garden. If you understand ‘that’ maybe it will influence how you “understand” what I’m understanding.....or maybe not.

Ken Rank said:

Your post is just so filled with kindness and love toward those who draw conclusions you don't (Jewish wannabe's, really???).

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No more haughty than thinking because I’ve “written articles” somehow makes me an authority you should listen to. IOW I deleted what I perceived was simply inspirationally written by the very same ‘spirit’ you now accuse me of. I’ve lost dear breathren who left fellowship with us because of the ‘mess’ of being divisive Mess-ianics.

As for your "points," you said Abraham didn't know the Torah but Genesis 26:5 directly and succinctly opposes your view.

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Sorry but if you think that should sway me, you would ‘do well’ to move on without me

Have a great day. I won't respond to you again until you apologize for the Jewish wannabe comment. That both demeans the Jewish people and the practices that Jesus himself took part in!

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Do well then.

BNR32FAN said:

God gave more than 10 commandments. What happened to the dietary laws given in Leviticus? Peter ate food with the Gentiles that was forbidden for Jews to eat. Also the commandment that all Jews must be circumcised. Who was it that determined circumcision is no longer necessary? The church in Jerusalem made the decision. What scriptures did they refer to in order to come to this decision? They had no scriptures. They came to this decision the same way the church has always made decisions by ecumenical council. The collective members together with the guidance of the Holy Spirit determined the course of action the church would take. Sunday worship was established the same way.

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I might just say I agree, but would also add that one thing often lacks in the “abundance of councellors” being used by many of those “councils” today. ‘That’ being ‘the Spirit’ which reveals a ‘word’ from the “mouth” of God, and not just the mouths of men moved by a religious spirit. Isaiah 30:1, 2

Hillsage said:

No more haughty than thinking because I’ve “written articles” somehow makes me an authority you should listen to. IOW I deleted what I perceived was simply inspirationally written by the very same ‘spirit’ you now accuse me of. I’ve lost dear breathren who left fellowship with us because of the ‘mess’ of being divisive Mess-ianics.

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You missed the point, I have AN article that gives 10-15 examples of the Torah in use before Sinai. As for messy-antics, I've spent a great deal of time over the last 10 years reaching out to the divisive ones within that realm. I know it as well as anyone.

You still slandered the Jews, and by extension, messiah as he remains the Lion of the tribe if Jewdah.

Shalom.

Hillsage said:

Abraham Issac AND JACOB never knew the law of Lord/Jehovah. They never even knew the name of the law giving Jehovah. And the covenant of Jacob was with ‘God Almighty/ El Shaddai’. It was not the law of Moses given by Jehovah...according to scripture. Exodus 6:2-3

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1 John 5:3 NLT
Loving God means keeping his commandments, and his commandments are not burdensome.

Genesis 26:4-5
I will cause your descendants to become as numerous as the stars of the sky, and I will give them all these lands. And through your descendants all the nations of the earth will be blessed.
I will do this because Abraham listened to me and obeyed all my requirements, commands, decrees, and instructions.

Original Happy Camper said:

This chart shows us that God and His law have the exact same characteristics, revealing that the Ten Commandment law is actually God’s character in written form—written so that we can better comprehend God.

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You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts. 2cor3:3

BNR32FAN said:

It is my understanding that we are no longer to abide under the letter of the law but instead the purpose of which the law was written. Love God with all your heart, soul, and mind and love each other as Jesus loves us. All of the laws and commands of the prophets are based on these two commandments.

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Another way of looking at it is:
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law
Gal5:22&23

The fruit of the Spirit is the embodiment of how God wants you to live. Against it therefore, there is no law

stephen pollard said:

Another way of looking at it is:
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law
Gal5:22&23

The fruit of the Spirit is the embodiment of how God wants you to live. Against it therefore, there is no law

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Indeed because LOVE is the fulfilling [doing] of God's LAW in all those who BELIEVE..

ROMANS 13:8-10
[8], Owe no man anything, but to love one another: for he that loves another has fulfilled the law.
[9], For this, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not kill, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, You shall not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, namely, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
[10], Love works no ill to his neighbor: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

That is why Jesus says; on these two great commandments of LOVE to God and man hang all the law and the prophets *MATTHEW 22:36-40.

Hope this helps.

Original Happy Camper said:

This chart shows us that God and His law have the exact same characteristics, revealing that the Ten Commandment law is actually God’s character in written form—written so that we can better comprehend God. It is no more possible to change God’s law than to pull God out of heaven and change Him. Jesus showed us what the law—that is, the pattern for holy living—looks like when expressed in human form. God’s character cannot change; therefore, neither can His law.


GOD IS THE LAW IS
Good Luke 18:19 1 Timothy 1:8
Holy Isaiah 5:16 Romans 7:12
Perfect Matthew 5:48 Psalms 19:7
Pure 1 John 3:2,3 Psalms 19:8
Just Deuteronomy 32:4 Romans 7:12
True John 3:33 Psalms 19:9
Spiritual 1 Corinthians 10:4 Romans 7:14
Righteousness Jeremiah 23:6 Psalms 119:172
Faithful 1 Corinthians 1:9 Psalms 119:86
Love 1 John 4:8 Romans 13:10
Unchangeable James 1:17 Matthew 5:18
Everlasting Genesis 21:33 Psalms 111:7,8


6. Did Jesus abolish God's law while He was here on earth?
“Do not think that I came to destroy the Law. … I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. … Till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled” (Matthew 5:17, 18).

Answer: No, indeed! Jesus specifically asserted that He did not come to destroy the law, but to fulfill (or keep) it. Instead of doing away with the law, Jesus magnified it (Isaiah 42:21) as the perfect guide for holy living. For example, Jesus pointed out that “You shall not murder” condemns anger “without a cause” (Matthew 5:21, 22) and hatred (1 John 3:15), and that lust is a form of adultery (Matthew 5:27, 28). He said, “If you love Me, keep My commandments” (John 14:15).

Written in Stone! | Bible Study Guides | Amazing Facts

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If Jesus did not arrive in order to annul the written law. Then you need to be circumcised as Jesus was circumcised, and on the eighth day.

If Jesus visited us with express purpose of establishing a new, higher, spiritual law, thereby nullifying the written law. Then you will not be circumcised as that then becomes a work of the flesh.

It's that simple.

klutedavid said:

If Jesus did not arrive in order to annul the written law. Then you need to be circumcised as Jesus was circumcised, and on the eighth day.

If Jesus visited us with express purpose of establishing a new, higher, spiritual law, thereby nullifying the written law. Then you will not be circumcised as that then becomes a work of the flesh.

It's that simple.

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Why David? Where does it say in God's 10 Commandments that are written on stone that you need to be circumcised? GOD's LAW (10 Commandments) give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTOUESNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; PSALMS 119:172. You are mixing up the SHADOW laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT *EXODUS 24:7 that point to Christ and God's plan of salvation in the NEW COVEANT.

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CIRCUMCISION was a SHADOW law pointing to a NEW HEART...

COLOSSIANS 2:11. In whom also you are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ

FORTOLD IN THE OLD AND NEW TESTAMENT SCRIPTURES….

DEUTERONOMY 30:6 [6] And the LORD your God will CIRCUMCISE YOUR HEART AND THE HEART OF YOUR DECENDENCE, TO LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART AND WITHYOU’RE YOUR SOUL, THAT YOU MAY LIVE.

JEREMIAH 4:4 [4] CIRCUMCISE YOURSELF TO THE LORD, AND TAKE AWAY THE FORESKINS OF YOUR HEART, you men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem: lest my fury come forth like fire, and burn that none can quench it, because of the evil of your doings.

DEUTERONOMY 10:16 [16] CIRCUMCISE therefore THE FORESKIN OF YOUR HEART, and be no more stiff-necked.

NEW COVENANT FULFILLMENT of the SHADOWS of the CEREMONIAL ORDINANCE of CIRCUMCISION pointing the CIRCUMCISION of the HEART through faith in Christ…

ROMANS 2:25-29 [25] For circumcision verily profits, if you keep the law: but if you are a breaker of the law, your circumcision is made uncircumcision. [26], Therefore if the uncircumcision keeps the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? [27], And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfils the law, judge you, who by the letter and circumcision do transgress the law? [28], FOR HE IS NOT A JEW, WHO IS ONE; NEITHER IS THAT CIRCUMCISION, WHICH IS OF THE OUTWARD FLESH: [29], BUT HE IS A JEW WHICH IS ONE INWARDLY; AND CIRCUMCISION IS THAT OF THE HEART, IN THE SPIRIT AND NOT IN THE LETTER; WHOSE PRAISE IS NOT OF MEN BUT OF GOD.

1 CORINTHIANS 7:19 [19] CIRCUMCISION IS NOTHING, AND UNCIRCUMCISION IS NOTHING, BUT THE KEEPING OF THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD.

This is the operation of GOD in the NEW COVENANT…

HEBREWS 8 [10], For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord; I WILL PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR MINDS, AND WRITE THEM IN THEIR HEARTS: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

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CONCLUSION; The CEREMONIAL ORDINANCE of CIRCUMCISION is a Shadow law from the MOSAIC BOOK of the OLD COVENANT pointing to a NEW HEART to LOVE and OBEY GOD in the NEW COVENANT. The SHADOW laws of the OLD COVENANT that are REPLACED CEREMONIAL ORDINANCES of CIRCUMCISION from the Mosaic BOOK of the Covenant are the within CHAPTER CONTEXT BEFORE COL 2:14. God's 10 Commandments written on stone are God's eternal law that Gives up the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL. You need to read them in the letter because you can walk in the Spirit. The letter shows us our need of Christ that we may be FORGIVEN by FAITH. *GALATIANS 3:22-25

Hope this helps

Hillsage said:

I might just say I agree, but would also add that one thing often lacks in the “abundance of councellors” being used by many of those “councils” today. ‘That’ being ‘the Spirit’ which reveals a ‘word’ from the “mouth” of God, and not just the mouths of men moved by a religious spirit. Isaiah 30:1, 2

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Yes I would have to agree on that. The councils of Florence and Trent are two I definitely disagree with. Actually pretty much all of Christianity disagrees with those two in particular. Except of course for the RCC. I would say their councils pretty much went “South” after the schism of 1054.

LoveGodsWord said:

Indeed because LOVE is the fulfilling [doing] of God's LAW in all those who BELIEVE

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Jesus was circumcised.

Your not emulating Jesus.

Jesus was under the law and apparently you are not, your ignoring the law.

Either, Jesus annulled circumcision or Jesus did not annul circumcision, which is it?
Do not steal is the law. Circumcision is the law.
Both are required to be obeyed in the law.

ROMANS 2:25 [25] For circumcision verily profits, if you keep the law:

LoveGodsWord said:

Why David? Where does it say in God's 10 Commandments that are written on stone that you need to be circumcised? GOD's LAW (10 Commandments) give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTOUESNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; PSALMS 119:172. You are mixing up the SHADOW laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT *EXODUS 24:7 that point to Christ and God's plan of salvation in the NEW COVEANT.

...........

CIRCUMCISION was a SHADOW law pointing to a NEW HEART...

COLOSSIANS 2:11. In whom also you are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ

FORTOLD IN THE OLD AND NEW TESTAMENT SCRIPTURES….

DEUTERONOMY 30:6 [6] And the LORD your God will CIRCUMCISE YOUR HEART AND THE HEART OF YOUR DECENDENCE, TO LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART AND WITHYOU’RE YOUR SOUL, THAT YOU MAY LIVE.

JEREMIAH 4:4 [4] CIRCUMCISE YOURSELF TO THE LORD, AND TAKE AWAY THE FORESKINS OF YOUR HEART, you men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem: lest my fury come forth like fire, and burn that none can quench it, because of the evil of your doings.

DEUTERONOMY 10:16 [16] CIRCUMCISE therefore THE FORESKIN OF YOUR HEART, and be no more stiff-necked.

NEW COVENANT FULFILLMENT of the SHADOWS of the CEREMONIAL ORDINANCE of CIRCUMCISION pointing the CIRCUMCISION of the HEART through faith in Christ…

ROMANS 2:25 [25] For circumcision verily profits, if you keep the law: but if you are a breaker of the law, your circumcision is made uncircumcision. [26], Therefore if the uncircumcision keeps the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? [27], And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfils the law, judge you, who by the letter and circumcision do transgress the law? [28], FOR HE IS NOT A JEW, WHO IS ONE; NEITHER IS THAT CIRCUMCISION, WHICH IS OF THE OUTWARD FLESH: [29], BUT HE IS A JEW WHICH IS ONE INWARDLY; AND CIRCUMCISION IS THAT OF THE HEART, IN THE SPIRIT AND NOT IN THE LETTER; WHOSE PRAISE IS NOT OF MEN BUT OF GOD.

1 CORINTHIANS 7:19 [19] CIRCUMCISION IS NOTHING, AND UNCIRCUMCISION IS NOTHING, BUT THE KEEPING OF THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD.

This is the operation of GOD in the NEW COVENANT…

HEBREWS 8 [10], For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord; I WILL PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR MINDS, AND WRITE THEM IN THEIR HEARTS: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

..................

CONCLUSION; The CEREMONIAL ORDINANCE of CIRCUMCISION is a Shadow law from the MOSAIC BOOK of the OLD COVENANT pointing to a NEW HEART to LOVE and OBEY GOD in the NEW COVENANT. The SHADOW laws of the OLD COVENANT that are REPLACED CEREMONIAL ORDINANCES of CIRCUMCISION from the Mosaic BOOK of the Covenant are the within CHAPTER CONTEXT BEFORE COL 2:14. God's 10 Commandments written on stone are God's eternal law that Gives up the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL. You need to read them in the letter because you can walk in the Spirit. The letter shows us our need of Christ that we may be FORGIVEN by FAITH. *GALATIANS 3:22-25

Hope this helps

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Where does it say the 10 commandments is God’s law? When God gave the commandments they were just that, commandments. The Jews built their system of law around God’s commandments. Not just the 10 commandments but the 613 commandments. Their law added many more restrictions than God’s commandments did. If your speaking of the Torah your not speaking of just the 10 commandments. If your speaking of only the 10 commandments why are you not concerned with the other 603 commandments? Are they any less important commandments of God?

BNR32FAN said:

Where does it say the 10 commandments is God’s law? When God gave the commandments they were just that, commandments. The Jews built their system of law around God’s commandments. Not just the 10 commandments but the 613 commandments. Their law added many more restrictions than God’s commandments did. If your speaking of the Torah your not speaking of just the 10 commandments. If your speaking of only the 10 commandments why are you not concerned with the other 603 commandments? Are they any less important commandments of God?

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Yes, they see the ten commandments as special, God's real law. Every other other law has failed in their eyes. That is what they are taught, the ten are the moral law. The other six hundred laws plus the admonition of the prophets, is all mere ceremonial law, failed law.

klutedavid said:

Jesus was circumcised.

Your not emulating Jesus.

Jesus was under the law and apparently you are not, your ignoring the law.

Either, Jesus annulled circumcision or Jesus did not annul circumcision, which is it?
Do not steal is the law. Circumcision is the law.
Both are required to be obeyed in the law.

ROMANS 2:25 [25] For circumcision verily profits, if you keep the law:

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Hi David, please feel free to address the whole post that you are quoting from there is many scriptures provided there that disagree with you.

Jesus fulfilled all aspects of the OLD COVENANT laws which included both God's 10 commandments written on stone and the Shadow laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT *EXODUS 34:28; EXODUS 24:7. If he did not then he would not be our perfect sacrifice.

MATTHEW 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.

Why?

Because the NEW COVENANT had not commenced as mankind did not have the gift of God's dear son [perfect sacrifice] that all the shadow laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT pointed to *LEVITICUS 16 etc. The NEW COVENANT did not commence until after the death, buriel, resurrection and ascension of Christ as our Great high Priest in the Heavenly Sanctuary. This is what the Shadow laws of the OLD COVENANT pointed to in the NEW. *HEBREWS chapters 7-10.
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You have provided your scripture out of CONTEXT with your interpretation of it. ROMANS 2:25 read like this with the context added in.

ROMANS 2:25-29 [25] For circumcision verily profits, if you keep the law: but if you are a breaker of the law, your circumcision is made uncircumcision. [26], Therefore if the uncircumcision keeps the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? [27], And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfils the law, judge you, who by the letter and circumcision do transgress the law? [28], FOR HE IS NOT A JEW, WHO IS ONE; NEITHER IS THAT CIRCUMCISION, WHICH IS OF THE OUTWARD FLESH: [29], BUT HE IS A JEW WHICH IS ONE INWARDLY; AND CIRCUMCISION IS THAT OF THE HEART, IN THE SPIRIT AND NOT IN THE LETTER; WHOSE PRAISE IS NOT OF MEN BUT OF GOD.

WHY?

Because we all need to be BORN again to LOVE and LOVE is the fulfilling of God's LAW in all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW GOD's WORD. *HEBREWS 8:10-12; 1 JOHN 3:3-10; ROMANS 13:8-10.

Hope this helps

klutedavid said:

Jesus was circumcised.

Your not emulating Jesus.

Jesus was under the law and apparently you are not, your ignoring the law.

Either, Jesus annulled circumcision or Jesus did not annul circumcision, which is it?
Do not steal is the law. Circumcision is the law.
Both are required to be obeyed in the law.

ROMANS 2:25 [25] For circumcision verily profits, if you keep the law:

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Have you written your Torah scroll yet?

klutedavid said:

Yes, they see the ten commandments as special, God's real law. Every other other law has failed in their eyes. That is what they are taught, the ten are the moral law. The other six hundred laws plus the admonition of the prophets, is all mere ceremonial law, failed law.

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Are you saying they pick and choose which of God’s commandments they want to obey?