Pro-Life means sex creates souls?

Natsumi Lam · Oct 8, 2018

Of course he sees us before we are formed. He sees all past, present future.

But it still doesnt answer the following...

1. How you biblically came to the conclusion that a A soul chooses..has a choice where it goes.

2. A soul is not imparted upon conception because the soul might think it is a waste of their time to be a fetus.

DamianWarS · Oct 8, 2018

Fascinated With God said:
Whenever God decides. I believe in omnipotence. What practical significance would an answer to this question make? Sooner or later, it doesn't matter theologically.

Yes, when the soul is incarnated it is subject to human free will, but that has no bearing on when the soul was created.

it is a subject of theology since our Lord became incarnate himself.

Fascinated With God · Oct 8, 2018

DamianWarS said:
it is a subject of theology since our Lord became incarnate himself.

That is the worst possible example for your case since Christ is the only uncreated being and it is a violation of the Nicene Creed to claim he did not exist before conception.

Fascinated With God · Oct 8, 2018

Natsumi Lam said:
1. How you biblically came to the conclusion that a A soul chooses..has a choice where it goes.

That is speculation, I never said it came from the Bible.

Natsumi Lam said:
2. A soul is not imparted upon conception because the soul might think it is a waste of their time to be a fetus.

We are all made in the image of God and Christ most definitely existed before he was conceived. To deny that is a violation of the Nicene Creed.

Natsumi Lam · Oct 8, 2018

How do you explain Luke 1:15.
:15 [ Greek Font Size: BYZ / TR | For he shall be (5704) great in the sight of the Lord, andshall drink (5632) neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled (5701) with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.

So it is not good enough for a human soul to infultrate a fetus but good enough for the Holy Ghost to infill a fetus?

Fascinated With God · Oct 8, 2018

DamianWarS said:
it is a subject of theology since our Lord became incarnate himself.

Natsumi Lam said:
2. A soul is not imparted upon conception because the soul might think it is a waste of their time to be a fetus.

Thanks to both of you. You asked some great questions and my OP is quite lengthy now as a result of including many of my answers to you. It looks much more coherent now. Right or wrong, at least I have my assertion explained much more clearly thanks to you.

DamianWarS · Oct 8, 2018

Fascinated With God said:
That is the worst possible example for your case since Christ is the only uncreated being and it is a violation of the Nicene Creed to claim he did not exist before conception.

if the argument is about the soul forcibly being entrapped in a developing fetus like a prison then what about our Lord? He endured the humiliation of not just becoming man but also incarnate in life since conception. Why do we deserve better? How does scripture inform as otherwise?

Terminating a life that God has ordained I think is the question here, your contention seems to be that conception doesn't need to be the ordained moment so this informs your views of abortion but this is not just a trivial matter and it is important that how we are informed on this through scripture is clear and responsible. What I see is Scripture does not make this distinction of life without soul and I think the incarnation of the Lord does help support these values. If Christ is to be said to be 100% human than should that not mean his entire process of fetal development also followed that of a human including when soul joined flesh?

Natsumi Lam · Oct 8, 2018

Fascinated With God said:
That is speculation, I never said it came from the Bible.

We are all made in the image of God and Christ most definitely existed before he was conceived. To deny that is a violation of the Nicene Creed.

Then why are you holding strong to your belief without biblical backing? Experience?

Christ, God and the Holy Spirit are the alpha and omega. The beginning and the end. Not man or we would be omnipotent and omnipresent too if we were made exactly like Them. Jesus is God in the form of man. He was not a created soul. He always was.

Fascinated With God · Oct 8, 2018

Natsumi Lam said:
For he shall be (5704) great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink (5632) neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled (5701) with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.

So it is not good enough for a human soul to infultrate a fetus but good enough for the Holy Ghost to infill a fetus?

Future tense again.

Fascinated With God · Oct 8, 2018

Natsumi Lam said:
Then why are you holding strong to your belief without biblical backing? Experience?

Christ, God and the Holy Spirit are the alpha and omega. The beginning and the end. Not man or we would be omnipotent and omnipresent too if we were made exactly like Them. Jesus is God in the form of man. He was not a created soul. He always was.

We are made in the image of God. For us not to pre-exist before conception would violate that.

Natsumi Lam · Oct 8, 2018

Fascinated With God said:
Future tense again.

Exactly...if you read later in the chapter Elizabeth became prego after the prophecy. She shall bear a son vs 1:13.

It goes onto say the Holy Spirit will be imparted while he is still in the womb to which the fetus leaped at the sound of Mary and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit too.

So if the Holy Spirit infills a fetus, why is it not good enough to have a soul while in the tummy?

Natsumi Lam · Oct 8, 2018

Fascinated With God said:
We are made in the image of God. For us not to pre-exist before conception would violate that.

Then we also have to be omnipresent and opnipotent right? God doesnt sin. We sin. That is why we need Jesus. If we didnt sin, we wouldnt need Jesus. So we are not a complete carbon copy.

Natsumi Lam · Oct 8, 2018

If a fetus is important to God that He infills a baby with His Holy Spirit, should we not also value a fetus as much as God does?

SgtBen · Oct 8, 2018

Obviously, when sex is between a man and a woman, and the egg is fertilized by the sperm, yes, I believe there is a soul that comes of a fetus, which in turn is a baby, a person, and it is up to the makers of such a beautiful soul as to how to deal with this, which is a person who has a soul.

Some are aborted. That is a loss, but the little baby's soul goes straight to Jesus and God. The little one did not ask to be killed.

I think the best way to deal with any unwanted baby is don't kill him/her. Find better options as adoption. Get help from pro-life places.

There are options.

Fascinated With God · Oct 8, 2018

Natsumi Lam said:
If a fetus is important to God that He infills a baby with His Holy Spirit, should we not also value a fetus as much as God does?

Your examples are future tense. Put yourself in the position of Christ incarnating. When would YOU want to show up?

Fascinated With God · Oct 8, 2018

Natsumi Lam said:
Then we also have to be omnipresent and opnipotent right? God doesnt sin. We sin. That is why we need Jesus. If we didnt sin, we wouldnt need Jesus. So we are not a complete carbon copy.

The fact that we are not carbon copies doesn't mean we should be opposites with him infinitely old at conception and us 0.

Natsumi Lam · Oct 8, 2018

Fascinated With God said:
Your examples are future tense. Put yourself in the position of Christ incarnating. When would YOU want to show up?

It doesnt matter when i want to show up. It is when God has me show up. The story of John is a perfect example of the hand of God orchistrating the impartation of the Holy Spirit into a fetus. Apparently God is cool doing that, why could he not impart a soul too while He is there. Or did John's soul choose to wait until birth as to not be a fetus and crowd the Holy Spirit?

Why did John leap at the sound of Mary and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit?

Fascinated With God · Oct 8, 2018

Natsumi Lam said:
Why did John leap at the sound of Mary and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit?

Babys only kick in the 3rd trimester.

Fascinated With God · Oct 8, 2018

Natsumi Lam said:
It doesnt matter when i want to show up.

You are evading the question. If you pre-existed would you want to be trapped in the body of a mindless entity?

Fascinated With God · Oct 8, 2018

Natsumi Lam said:
It doesnt matter when i want to show up. It is when God has me show up.

Christ is not a [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]. What you are brushing over is that it would be masochism to want to be trapped like that.

Pro-Life means sex creates souls?

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