What does it means "The Son is eternally begotten from The Father"?

Begotten can be understood to mean "of the same nature" in light of the Nicene Creed when it states God from God, light from light, True God from True God. Jesus isn't made in God's image like the rest of us; He is God's image because He is God.

David Cabrera said:

I know The Son existed before all times, and he is of the same substance of The Father. However, I get confused with the idea of "begotten". Can you explain?

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It is meant to describe the relationship between the Father and Son. That relationship is generational, even though there is no beginning.

The relationship between yourself and your father is generational, but you had a beginning. Even if you had no beginning, your relationship with your father would still be generational.

We say that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father, making the relationship between the Father and Holy Spirit processional.

Alone, these are merely terms we use to describe the relationships between the Persons of the Trinity. But just as there was no time that the Son was generated, though He is generational, there was no time that the Holy Spirit proceeded, though He is processional.

David Cabrera said:

I know The Son existed before all times, and he is of the same substance of The Father. However, I get confused with the idea of "begotten". Can you explain?

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I believe everyone struggles to understand the incarnation.

Jesus took on the form of a man (begotten), but Jesus did not have an earthly father. So Jesus is not a full blooded descendant of Adam.

Begotten and not created, means Jesus chose to take the form of a man, to accomplish His divine mission. Jesus was not technically a man as we understand the term. Though Jesus was a flesh and blood male, the truth is Jesus actually came from above. This is the critical distinction between Jesus and us.

John 3:13
No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven, the Son of Man.

John 3:31
He who comes from above is above all, he who is of the earth is from the earth and speaks of the earth.

John 3
He who comes from heaven is above all.

John 6
33 For the bread of God is that which comes down out of heaven, and gives life to the world.

John 6
38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.

John 6
58 This is the bread which came down out of heaven; not as the fathers ate and died; he who eats this bread will live forever.

John 6
62 What then if you see the Son of Man ascending to where He was before?

John 7
29 I know Him, because I am from Him, and He sent Me.

John 8
14 Jesus answered and said to them, “Even if I testify about Myself, My testimony is true, for I know where I came from and where I am going.

John 8
23 And He was saying to them, “You are from below, I am from above; you are of this world, I am not of this world."

John 8
42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and have come from God.

John 8
58 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.”

John 13
3 Jesus, knowing that the Father had given all things into His hands, and that He had come forth from God and was going back to God.

John 16
28 I came forth from the Father and have come into the world; I am leaving the world again and going to the Father.

John 16
30 Now we know that You know all things, and have no need for anyone to question You; by this we believe that You came from God.

John 17
8 for the words which You gave Me I have given to them; and they received them and truly understood that I came forth from You, and they believed that You sent Me.

klutedavid said:

I believe everyone struggles to understand the incarnation.

Jesus took on the form of a man (begotten), but Jesus did not have an earthly father. So Jesus is not a full blooded descendant of Adam.

Begotten and not created, means Jesus chose to take the form of a man, to accomplish His divine mission. Jesus was not technically a man as we understand the term. Though Jesus was a flesh and blood male, the truth is Jesus actually came from above. This is the critical distinction between Jesus and us.

John 3:13
No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven, the Son of Man.

John 3:31
He who comes from above is above all, he who is of the earth is from the earth and speaks of the earth.

John 3
He who comes from heaven is above all.

John 6
33 For the bread of God is that which comes down out of heaven, and gives life to the world.

John 6
38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.

John 6
58 This is the bread which came down out of heaven; not as the fathers ate and died; he who eats this bread will live forever.

John 6
62 What then if you see the Son of Man ascending to where He was before?

John 7
29 I know Him, because I am from Him, and He sent Me.

John 8
14 Jesus answered and said to them, “Even if I testify about Myself, My testimony is true, for I know where I came from and where I am going.

John 8
23 And He was saying to them, “You are from below, I am from above; you are of this world, I am not of this world."

John 8
42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and have come from God.

John 8
58 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.”

John 13
3 Jesus, knowing that the Father had given all things into His hands, and that He had come forth from God and was going back to God.

John 16
28 I came forth from the Father and have come into the world; I am leaving the world again and going to the Father.

John 16
30 Now we know that You know all things, and have no need for anyone to question You; by this we believe that You came from God.

John 17
8 for the words which You gave Me I have given to them; and they received them and truly understood that I came forth from You, and they believed that You sent Me.

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I have always been a little confused about that quote of yours from John 3:13 as it conflicts with this quote from 2 Kings...

2 Kings 2:11 As they continued walking and talking, a chariot of fire and horses of fire separated the two of them, and Elijah ascended in a whirlwind into heaven.

gordonhooker said:

I have always been a little confused about that quote of yours from John 3:13 as it conflicts with this quote from 2 Kings...

2 Kings 2:11 As they continued walking and talking, a chariot of fire and horses of fire separated the two of them, and Elijah ascended in a whirlwind into heaven.

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Thanks for the reply, Gordon Hooker.

I am not sure where you see the conflict, you may need to expand on your reply?

klutedavid said:

Thanks for the reply, Gordon Hooker.

I am not sure where you see the conflict, you may need to expand on your reply?

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Hmmmm...

You don't see conflicting statements between these two verses?

2 Kings 2:11 As they continued walking and talking, a chariot of fire and horses of fire separated the two of them, and Elijah ascended in a whirlwind into heaven.

and

John 3:13 No one has ascended into heaven except the one who descended from heaven, the Son of Man.

They contradict one another...

"Begotten of the Father before all ages" does not point to the Incarnation. As said above, it is more a matter that Father and Son relate as Father and Son, and there is an eternal sense to the word "begotten" - it does not take place at a moment in time. It also means the Father is the eternal Source (which is why we insist on not adding the Filioque to the Creed, because likewise the relationship of the Holy Spirit to the Father is explained in His proceeding/spirating/being breathed from the Father (Who is again the ultimate Source).

In a sense we can understand. But then in another sense, we cannot, as mere creatures.

But the Incarnation was a moment in time, when the Eternal God deigned to take on human flesh and become fully man - that is reflected in the part of the Creed that says "who for us men and for our salvation, came down from heaven and was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary and became man".

We need to be sure not to confuse the two, or we can easily get into error.

gordonhooker said:

Hmmmm...

You don't see conflicting statements between these two verses?

2 Kings 2:11 As they continued walking and talking, a chariot of fire and horses of fire separated the two of them, and Elijah ascended in a whirlwind into heaven.

and

John 3:13 No one has ascended into heaven except the one who descended from heaven, the Son of Man.

They contradict one another...

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I agree, they would contradict if we take Elijah going to Heaven as literally THE Heaven to dwell with God. But there is more than one heaven isn't there. Paul said he was taken to the third Heaven
Then when Jesus died at Calvary he told the thief: Today you will be with me in paradise. Some take that to mean Heaven, but Jesus told his disciples he would be in the heart of the earth when he died at Calvary. And when he rose from the grave, he told Mary not to touch him for he had not yet ascended to his Father in Heaven.
So I would not take the Elijah example as literal myself to mean to dwell with God in Heaven

If Jesus is going to raise up those who believe in him on the last day(of this present earth) why would people from the OT go straight to Heaven, whilst those under the new covenant do not?

gordonhooker said:

Hmmmm...

You don't see conflicting statements between these two verses?

2 Kings 2:11 As they continued walking and talking, a chariot of fire and horses of fire separated the two of them, and Elijah ascended in a whirlwind into heaven.

and

John 3:13 No one has ascended into heaven except the one who descended from heaven, the Son of Man.

They contradict one another...

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No they do not conflict

Is Enoch in heaven?

Hebrews 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

But in this verse Hebrews 11:13 the Bible tells us that no one have received the promise yet

Hebrews 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

And in another verse the Bible tells us no man hath ascended up to heaven.

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
Hebrews 11:5 is accurate; Enoch is in heaven.

Hebrews 11:13 is also correct, because when it says, "These all died in faith," to whom does the "these all" refer? To the specific ones just mentioned. Verse 6 had introduced a different point being made in that chapter, and then Paul mentions Noah, then Abraham, then Sara: "These all died in the faith, not having received the promises." It referred to those three individuals, not Enoch. Then there is another explanatory verse or two, and then Paul begins with Abraham again, with different details.

John 3:13 does not contradict Hebrews 11:5, either. If we look at the context, Jesus has been talking to Nicodemus, and Nicodemus seems to be having trouble understanding (or accepting) what Jesus was saying. Jesus made an analogy of the wind. It causes an observable effect even though one cannot see it. That is how it happens with the Holy Spirit's work, too.

Then Nicodemus wanted to know "How can these things be?" This all seemed new to him. And Jesus gently chided him for his lack of perception. Verse 12, if read with verse 13, will make verse 13 clearer. "If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe it not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven."

In other words, "You don't believe me in either earthly or spiritual matters. What other man will you believe about spiritual matters? Has any man ever gone to heaven to learn heavenly wisdom? No. In fact, though, One has come down from heaven to tell you spiritual things-- the Son of man--who is right in front of you!"

Context must be checked out whenever verses seem to conflict. Since the Bible is the Word of God, any time it doesn't seem to make sense to us, the problem is with our puny minds, not the inspired work from heaven.

Is Enoch in heaven? - Powered by Kayako Resolve Help Desk Software

gordonhooker said:

Hmmmm...

You don't see conflicting statements between these two verses?

2 Kings 2:11 As they continued walking and talking, a chariot of fire and horses of fire separated the two of them, and Elijah ascended in a whirlwind into heaven.

and

John 3:13 No one has ascended into heaven except the one who descended from heaven, the Son of Man.

They contradict one another...

Click to expand...

Elijah did not descend from heaven and then ascend back into heaven again. The context of John chapter three, indicates that Jesus came down from above, Jesus has divine power to descend, and then to ascend again to heaven.

Jesus was from above, the authentic ruler of the earth and the heavens. Nicodemus on the other hand was from below, the same as Elijah was.

Elijah did not descend and then ascend back into heaven. Elijah was carried aloft by a fiery whirlwind and probably towards some lower heavenly realm.

As there are multiple levels of heaven that are mentioned in the scripture. It is probably unlikely, that Elijah's ascent into heaven is the same heaven, that Jesus is talking about in this chapter of John.

David Cabrera said:

What does it mean The Father is the "source" of the Son?

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I think any answer I give will be logically unsatisfying.

The Father is the Source of both the Son and the Holy Spirit.

However - there was never a time that the Son was not.

I asked if that meant whether God existed not in Trinity in some "time before time" (since we can't express it any other way).

I have been answered variously

1. No, because the action of begetting/processing was always eternal

2. We don't try to delve into such things (when we try to figure things out about the deep things of God that are not handed down by the Fathers we risk falling into heresy)

So. I'm not sure if someone more theologically educated can explain what it means. I didn't ask that simple question but tried to figure out what it might mean or not mean.

But that's as far as I can go.

It's a good question I think.

Saint Gregory Nazianzen