The problem with legalism

Emli · Oct 7, 2018

Hammster said:
If they were in Christ, they would bear fruit. It’s His responsibility, remember?

Read the verses again please.

John 15:2 "Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit."

Apparently you're wrong, or else God's Word is wrong. I trust Him and not you.

God only produces fruit in those who choose to abide in Him. His promises are for those who love Him.

Hammster · Oct 7, 2018

GodsGrace101 said:
What you believe makes God responsible when we sin.
If we do not obey, did God fail?

We will eventually. He disciplines those He loves.

Hammster · Oct 7, 2018

Emli said:
Read the verses again please.

John 15:2 "Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit."

Apparently you're wrong, or else God's Word is wrong. I trust Him and not you.

God only produces fruit in those who choose to abide in Him. His promises are for those who love Him.

So who is responsible for fruit? Now you are saying it’s us.

GodsGrace101 · Oct 7, 2018

Hammster said:
What am I supposed to be responding to here?

When did we lose our free will...
Which we need to abandon God and our salvation.

I believe we still have our free will.
If you think we cannot leave God, it means you think we've lost our free will upon salvation.

So,,,When did we lose our free will?
Scripture please.

Emli · Oct 7, 2018

Hammster said:
I’m not the one who makes Him a horrible Father. You believe He sends His disobedient children to hell.

You believe that He sends people to Hell, without even trying to save them. Because He doesn't want to save them? He makes them alive in Christ, but then just lets them fall for no reason? Was He tired? Or why else did He fail them?

I believe that He wants no one to perish, but that He won't force anyone to come to Heaven who doesn't want to. That makes Him merciful. And those branches were never His children, they were in Christ by having the Holy Spirit, but were never obedient to Him. That is why they were cut off.

Hammster · Oct 7, 2018

GodsGrace101 said:
When did we lose our free will...
Which we need to abandon God and our salvation.

I believe we still have our free will.
If you think we cannot leave God, it means you think we've lost our free will hpon salvation.

So,,,When did we lose our free will?
Scripture please.

We can only act according to our nature. Our unregenerate nature hates God. Our regenerate nature loves Him. So it’s unnatural for the regenerate to act like the unregenerate. So there’s no abandoning our salvation.

Emli · Oct 7, 2018

Hammster said:
So who is responsible for fruit? Now you are saying it’s us.

Where did you possibly get that from my post where I said that God is the One who produces fruit in us?

stephen pollard · Oct 7, 2018

Jenniferdiana said:
but i still know enough that i love him enough to return to him and give my life to him though i havent done that yet, and one of the reasons is because i am a bit scare and still feel attach to this life and all i ever known..

This reminds me of me, a long, long time ago. My life was in a mess, and don't we cry out to God when it is. I told God he could have my life, but after I told him that I was a bit scared. For me, to offer my life meant giving everything up for God, but there were still things in me, that if I was honest, I wasn't sure I would completely give. The thing is, God takes you at your word, and then you find a time when he wants you to make good your promise. And if you do not give, what you said you would give, I have found it brings much unhappiness. So in my view, it is best to be sure you will give what you are offering, no peace otherwise

Hammster · Oct 7, 2018

Emli said:
You believe that He sends people to Hell, without even trying to save them. Because He doesn't want to save them? He makes them alive in Christ, but then just lets them fall for no reason? Was He tired? Or why else did He fail them?

I believe that He wants no one to perish, but that He won't force anyone to come to Heaven who doesn't want to. That makes Him merciful. And those branches were never His children, they were in Christ by having the Holy Spirit, but were never obedient to Him. That is why they were cut off.

I also agree that He won’t force anyone to come to Him. He doesn’t need to. He just changes our hearts.

GodsGrace101 · Oct 7, 2018

Hammster said:
We can only act according to our nature. Our unregenerate nature hates God. Our regenerate nature loves Him. So it’s unnatural for the regenerate to act like the unregenerate. So there’s no abandoning our salvation.

So. Total depravity.
God does it all.
Understood and just as I suspected.
Tomorrow H.
Good night.

Emli · Oct 7, 2018

Hammster said:
I also agree that He won’t force anyone to come to Him. He doesn’t need to. He just changes our hearts.

Then what do you think that John 15:2 means? Without ignoring a single word or twisting it?

Hammster · Oct 7, 2018

Emli said:
Where did you possibly get that from my post where I said that God is the One who produces fruit in us?

Okay. Then if a branch isn’t bearing fruit, they are just appearing to be in Him. Think wheat and tares.

GodsGrace101 · Oct 7, 2018

Hammster said:
I also agree that He won’t force anyone to come to Him. He doesn’t need to. He just changes our hearts.

He changes our heart and treats us as idiots so we Think were doing what we want.
Wish I could post some links...

Hammster · Oct 7, 2018

GodsGrace101 said:
So. Total depravity.
God does it all.
Understood and just as I suspected.
Tomorrow H.
Good night.

Sola deo Gloria.

Hammster · Oct 7, 2018

Emli said:
Then what do you think that John 15:2 means? Without ignoring a single word or twisting it?

Wheat and tares.

Hammster · Oct 7, 2018

GodsGrace101 said:
He changes our heart and treats us as idiots so we Think were doing what we want.
Wish I could post some links...

You sound bitter.

Emli · Oct 7, 2018

Hammster said:
Wheat and tares.

Cannot be. Because the wheat was sown by God. The tares were sown by the enemy.

John 15 speaks about Jesus, as He is the True Vine. John 15:2 says that those branches were in Him. That means that they were in the Vine. Can satan graft a branch into Christ?

Here are more verses about this:
"Romans 11: 17. And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; 18. Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. 19. Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. 20. Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: 21. For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. 22. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. 23. And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again. 24. For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?" Romans 11:17-24

~Zao~ · Oct 7, 2018

stephen pollard said:
This reminds me of me, a long, long time ago. My life was in a mess, and don't we cry out to God when it is. I told God he could have my life, but after I told him that I was a bit scared. For me, to offer my life meant giving everything up for God, but there were still things in me, that if I was honest, I wasn't sure I would completely give. The thing is, God takes you at your word, and then you find a time when he wants you to make good your promise. And if you do not give, what you said you would give, I have found it brings much unhappiness. So in my view, it is best to be sure you will give what you are offering, no peace otherwise

2 Thessalonians 3:16, Romans 5:1, Philippians 4:7, Romans 12:18

Peace is the foundation that Christ set in place. And from that joy flows. Peace of the law in the Spirit given by the Son, the first-born who has already been made heir of all things. The law that was given by the angels was been superseded because of that.

Hammster · Oct 7, 2018

Emli said:
Cannot be. Because the wheat was sown by God. The tares were sown by the enemy.

John 15 speaks about Jesus, as He is the True Vine. John 15:2 says that those branches were in Him. That means that they were in the Vine. Can satan graft a branch into Christ?

Here are more verses about this:
"Romans 11: 17. And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; 18. Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. 19. Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. 20. Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: 21. For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. 22. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. 23. And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again. 24. For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?" Romans 11:17-24

If you don’t like wheat and tares, then there’s the parable of the soils. Only one soil shows a regenerate heart...the one that bore fruit. The others even had some growth at first.

I’m sure you’ve know some folks who attend church and look like good Christians. Then they fall away. Fortunately, John explains this for us in 1 John 2.

They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us. - 1 John 2:19

Emli · Oct 7, 2018

Hammster said:
If you don’t like wheat and tares, then there’s the parable of the soils. Only one soil shows a regenerate heart...the one that bore fruit. The others even had some growth at first.

I’m sure you’ve know some folks who attend church and look like good Christians. Then they fall away. Fortunately, John explains this for us in 1 John 2.

They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us. - 1 John 2:19

But the chapter isn't about going to church. It is about Jesus and being in Him specifically. The only way we can be in Him is if we have the Holy Spirit. That is what it says.

The problem with legalism

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