Worldview discussion

Hawkins

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I am looking for some people who are not Christians to have a discussion with to better understand their worldview. The discussion will focus on answers to at least four topics which worldviews deal with: origin, meaning, morality, and destiny. The discussion can be done here in this thread, in a private message, in person (If you live near Charlotte, NC), on Facebook, or through email. It can be made public or kept private. If you are or anyone you know is interested, please let me know. Thanks!

Origin:
It is a choice between "God did it" and "a shear fluke". Perhaps we need a billion universes in order for one to have the parameters required to form the fundamental particles in our universe, subsequently to facilitate life within a specific time frame.
I recently heard that there are a bunch of constants in our physics if altered then all the forces will be destructive instead of forming the particles we have in this universe. Some philosophical hypothesis thus says that in order to justify the value of these constants in our universe, there could be billions of universes with varied values out of which only one can be with the values of our universe. This hypothesis is never falsifiable as we humans don't have the ability to go out of our own universe to do speculations. Even when we can, we can't go to a universe with destructive chaos that even carbon can't exist as an element!

My own theory on the other hand is that our universe (at least the part cored or centered around planet earth) is not a singular 3D space. It's rather a mixture of 2 to 3 spaces interacting with each other. This not only allows particle types in our physical space (forming our body), but also particle types in the other interacting spaces (forming our soul). It's not a fluke, but made by God. To me, you have to make assumptions anyway, either one way or another (such as the multiverses).

These spaces interacting with each other such that our physics of field forces cannot be consistent. That's why we demand a super theory such as the string theory which is under development.

Meaning:
This is faith based anyway. If you make assumptions (or rather beliefs) such as multiverses, then you can come to the conclusion that life can be meaningless. If you have faith that life is from God then God has a purpose for our lives. Scientists assumed whatever for us to believe with faith. It's ok because they are the professionals. Moses on the other hand and as witness, declared that his information is from God. I think that it's also ok because that's how our history is coming from. To put it another way, if God is true there's no other way that we can get to know His existence except for believing in human witnessing (i.e., when God has a good reason to hide behind). To simply put, if God has a good reason not to confront humans at the moment, then the only way humans can have a chance to get to the truth of God is by believing in accounts of human testimonies.

I don't usually assume historians are liars simply because they are the only way for us to reach history. We don't have an alternative way to get to know history. It's ok for me to accept witnesses of God such as what Moses said and wrote.

Morality:
Morality is more like a pizza with different toppings. The original core (the pizza) is provided by God but altered at the different stages of human development since infantry and in womb. For example, it can be affected by the culture of a society (adding a topping to the pizza). Somehow I have one less topping than my fellows for me to notice the odd.

Destination:
When using a secular assumption, then it will be destroyed by fire. That's the time when our sun is burnt out. Somehow the Bible also said that our world ends with fire, this may refer to something else instead of the burning out of our sun.
 
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Tayla

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Our "self" changes all the time , is often self-contradictory, and very much mortal.
I'm open to the notion that consciousness is a universal property of reality and that we return to a greater Whole upon death. But our "selves" are but constructs, as frail and as mortal as the rest of us.
Seems that if you assume the "self" survives death, then you have to assume it was born in the past. But if it was born, why would it not die?

The other option for a "self" surviving death is that it is eternal and changes with time as you note. But is this changeable "self" really me after I no longer have a body or before I had one? (Or as I get older and more frail?)

Even so, the Buddhist idea of a "One Mind" which we all dissolve back into seems flawed somehow. Seems there is no reason for it to differentiate into fleeting temporary "selfs" who desire permanence, only to be disappointed by death.

I think the answer lies elsewhere.
 
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Tayla

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Actual ethics tends to go more along the lines of: "If I eat/serve this thing here, will it cause harm?"

My spirituality (which focuses mostly on knowing myself and others better) contributes to my moral conduct by fostering empathy and understanding, but that does NOT render ethics a spiritual endeavour in and of itself.
I like the definition of morality and ethics as relating to the good of others, to the good of all (if such a thing is even possible). But there is a sense in which something is good because it isn't bad. For example, I don't consume most entertainment and media because I don't want the bad stuff portrayed rattling around in my head. This choice of mine is purely selfish.
 
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holo

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The other option for a "self" surviving death is that it is eternal and changes with time as you note. But is this changeable "self" really me after I no longer have a body or before I had one? (Or as I get older and more frail?)
What what is this self, anyway? What part of you could you remove and no longer be a self? It seems to me that we can't pinpoint any such essence in ourselves.
 
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anonymous person

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Origin:
It is a choice between "God did it" and "a shear fluke". Perhaps we need a billion universes in order for one to have the parameters required to form the fundamental particles in our universe, subsequently to facilitate life within a specific time frame.
I recently heard that there are a bunch of constants in our physics if altered then all the forces will be destructive instead of forming the particles we have in this universe. Some philosophical hypothesis thus says that in order to justify the value of these constants in our universe, there could be billions of universes with varied values out of which only one can be with the values of our universe. This hypothesis is never falsifiable as we humans don't have the ability to go out of our own universe to do speculations. Even when we can, we can't go to a universe with destructive chaos that even carbon can't exist as an element!

My own theory on the other hand is that our universe (at least the part cored or centered around planet earth) is not a singular 3D space. It's rather a mixture of 2 to 3 spaces interacting with each other. This not only allows particle types in our physical space (forming our body), but also particle types in the other interacting spaces (forming our soul). It's not a fluke, but made by God. To me, you have to make assumptions anyway, either one way or another (such as the multiverses).

These spaces interacting with each other such that our physics of field forces cannot be consistent. That's why we demand a super theory such as the string theory which is under development.

Meaning:
This is faith based anyway. If you make assumptions (or rather beliefs) such as multiverses, then you can come to the conclusion that life can be meaningless. If you have faith that life is from God then God has a purpose for our lives. Scientists assumed whatever for us to believe with faith. It's ok because they are the professionals. Moses on the other hand and as witness, declared that his information is from God. I think that it's also ok because that's how our history is coming from. To put it another way, if God is true there's no other way that we can get to know His existence except for believing in human witnessing (i.e., when God has a good reason to hide behind). To simply put, if God has a good reason not to confront humans at the moment, then the only way humans can have a chance to get to the truth of God is by believing in accounts of human testimonies.

I don't usually assume historians are liars simply because they are the only way for us to reach history. We don't have an alternative way to get to know history. It's ok for me to accept witnesses of God such as what Moses said and wrote.

Morality:
Morality is more like a pizza with different toppings. The original core (the pizza) is provided by God but altered at the different stages of human development since infantry and in womb. For example, it can be affected by the culture of a society (adding a topping to the pizza). Somehow I have one less topping than my fellows for me to notice the odd.

Destination:
When using a secular assumption, then it will be destroyed by fire. That's the time when our sun is burnt out. Somehow the Bible also said that our world ends with fire, this may refer to something else instead of the burning out of our sun.

These are very interesting and thought provoking views you have here Hawkins. Thank you for sharing them with us all here! I will be asking more questions in part 2 of our worldview discussion and I look forward to reading more about what you have to say on these matters.
 
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anonymous person

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What what is this self, anyway? What part of you could you remove and no longer be a self? It seems to me that we can't pinpoint any such essence in ourselves.

This is a good question and one which philosophers of self attempt to answer. Discussing it now, however, would take us too far afield from our discussion but I will try to incorporate it into our future discussions.
 
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