The problem with legalism

cobblestone said:

Probably because they don't see Christ in the rightful place. John 6:62; Acts 7:56

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Good point!

Hammster said:

It was a direct response to your post.

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Technically yes, but it wasn't a response to the subject of my post.

Hammster said:

Read the verse. He did it.

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My question was how do we become the righteousness of God? Hint: The answer is in the verse.

stephen pollard said:

I think where the Holy Sprit is concerned, he dwells in all Christians, but do we as Christians allways submit to his leading? Are we allways prepared to listen to him, and let him guide us into truth? Or, do we sometimes think we can work things out on our own? For I agree, we should come to unity of belief through him, but this so often is not seen to happen

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oh ok. well i havent read my bible much growing up but i feel like the holy spirit was always there with me and ive known him all my life even when i wasnt living a life for God or seeking him. i feel like ive known God all my life too. when i was younger i feel like i felt the holy spirit in little things, like sometimes the weather such as rain and wind makes me feel a oneness in the holy spirit. sometimes i could feel something inside of me calling me to God. I dont know my mind and eyes dwell and focus on one thing, like when i am sitting alone on the porch or someone alone, i could sense a strong presence inside of me and all around me in the air for a few seconds then my mind would just snap back into reality and focus back on the normal thing i was doing. lol that has happen a lot throughout my life, like i feel oneness with creation. to be honest i remember a time i was never in my bible, and God came to me sevenfold. the point im trying to make here is to be honest i am hardly in the bible but the holy spirit teaches things to me in my heart and mind naturally. But i know i cant just rely on that part of me.. i should still be in the word..haha i guess i am lazy..and other reasons is i hate reading. i dont like to read. it makes my mouth tired (if that makes sense). but i still know enough that i love him enough to return to him and give my life to him though i havent done that yet, and one of the reasons is because i am a bit scare and still feel attach to this life and all i ever known..Tis i still dont think people should boast about how they have the holy spirit when they never can never come to an agreement and oneness with others...etc.. blah

Hammster said:

Convict us of sin.

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What Scripture do you base your view on that the Holy Spirit will convict of a sin you are not wanting conviction of?

Hammster said:

He’s does it. It’s a result of His work.

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Yes, it is. But how does it happen?

stephen pollard said:

You clearly do not understand the new covenant from what you wrote. You seem to think, if a person believes Jesus died for all their sins, past, present and future, and they have no righteousness before God of observing the law, they then are afflicted with what you suggest in your post. Just the opposite is true, for those who understand the covenant. Before I copy a previous post I will give you but one example.

A businessman dreaded going away on business gtrips. Leaving his family behind. For everytime he did this he watched inappropriate contentography on his laptop and felt devastated by it. Then, he joined a church where he was taught Jesus died for all his sins, past, present and future/he had no righteousness of obeying the law. He believed it, a short time later he was delivered from his addiction. Right believing leads to right living, hence:

For sin shall no longer be your master, for you are not under law(righteousness of obeying the law) but under grace Rom6:14. Try not to see through the lense of your natural mind, but allow the Holy Spirit to reveal the truth concerning the true message to you

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Hi Mr Pollard,

Stating a judgement on my understanding is just that, nothing more.
It is not clear what you believe I believe other than you are simplifying
a difficult subject too much. What is a good position is actually to state
your own, and then see how scripture reflects this and others understand
what you are sharing. Saying things like "You do not understand the new
covenant" means your approach is just dismissive and provactive.
I hope you gain something from this approach, because it means nothing
to me. Do you know Jonah the prophet and his ministry to Nineveh?
It strikes me that maybe you have no answer to this, so there we have to
agree to part, because until you can answer this you cannot answer Jesus

As the crowds increased, Jesus said, "This is a wicked generation. It asks for a miraculous sign, but none will be given it except the sign of Jonah."
Luke 11:29-30

Hammster said:

HE DOES IT!!!!

I can’t get any clearer.

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Yes, you can, you can respond to my question of how we become righteousness of God. The answer is in Scripture.

Your response to me is as you asked me "How was the Universe created?" and I answered "God did it!". That doesn't explain how God created the Universe. Neither does your response explain anything except say "God did it!" but that is far from enough knowledge to understand how we live our lives in Him.

Hammster said:

Okay, maybe I can.

1 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins
2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience-
3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.
4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us,
5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ-by grace you have been saved-
6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,
7 so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, - Ephesians 2:1-8

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Finally!!!

stephen pollard said:

This is the covenant I will make with them


after that time, says the Lord.


I will put my laws in their hearts,


and I will write them on their minds.’b]'>




17 Then he adds:




‘Their sins and lawless acts


I will remember no more




Heb10:16&17








The power of sin is the law(of righteousness) 1Cor15:56








So God did an amazing thing, he created a covenant where he removed the true power of sin from believers lives by sending Jesus to pay the price of our sin, hence: Their sins and lawless deeds I will remember no more. Law of righteousness removed for the believer. But that is not what is written first in the quotation, that is added. For you only get a saviour from your sin, if what is written in the Holy, just and perfect law of God is firstly written in your mind and placed on your heart. What does that mean? It means, you in your mind know how God wants you to live, and in your heart you want to live that way(for that is where the law has been placed) And that law will never be removed from your heart as long as you live. You cannot ignore what is in your heart and mind!




The born again Christians heartfelt desire to obey(for that is where the law has been placed) can now come to fruition, for what opposes obedience(sin) was dealt a crushing blow by Christ dying to remove its true power from your life. And so Paul states:




Do we then nullify the law by this faith(a righteousness of faith in Christ not observing the law) Not at all! Rather we uphold the law Rom3:31








The problem is, in the reality of so many Christians lives, they only have half a covenant. The law is within them, for the Holy Spirit will enter your life at conversion and write the law in your mind and place it on your heart. You do not have to ask him to do it, or believe he will do it. He will automatically do it. But you are asked to believe the other part on which the new covenant stands, for it is the part that removes sins power from your life

​

‘Their sins and lawless acts


I will remember no more​

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The above seems to be incomplete.
Half a covenant? A covenant is an agreement, but what is described here is
neither complete or the missing half explained. Cannot say more than this.

LightLoveHope said:

Hi Mr Pollard,

Stating a judgement on my understanding is just that, nothing more.
It is not clear what you believe I believe other than you are simplifying
a difficult subject too much. What is a good position is actually to state
your own, and then see how scripture reflects this and others understand
what you are sharing. Saying things like "You do not understand the new
covenant" means your approach is just dismissive and provactive.
I hope you gain something from this approach, because it means nothing
to me. Do you know Jonah the prophet and his ministry to Nineveh?
It strikes me that maybe you have no answer to this, so there we have to
agree to part, because until you can answer this you cannot answer Jesus

As the crowds increased, Jesus said, "This is a wicked generation. It asks for a miraculous sign, but none will be given it except the sign of Jonah."
Luke 11:29-30

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If I tell you Jesus died for all a believers sins,
past, present and future and they have no righteousness of obeying the law and you respond with:
'' people disregard Jesus words. Those who seem to hate the law, seem to be avoiding guilt and
the conviction of sin which they are carrying. Exactly a state which Jesus
would condemn as doomed to judgement, rather than repenting and walking
in sorrow and grief before the Lord.'''


It is obvious to me you do not understand the message of the person who wrote half the books of the new covenant

Hammster said:

Your question really makes no sense.

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Well, you must be getting your understanding from some where, right?

LightLoveHope said:

The above seems to be incomplete.
Half a covenant? A covenant is an agreement, but what is described here is
neither complete or the missing half explained. Cannot say more than this.

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I think we should leave it there, I agree

stephen pollard said:

If I tell you Jesus died for all a believers sins,
past, present and future and they have no righteousness of obeying the law and you respond with:
'' people disregard Jesus words. Those who seem to hate the law, seem to be avoiding guilt and
the conviction of sin which they are carrying. Exactly a state which Jesus
would condemn as doomed to judgement, rather than repenting and walking
in sorrow and grief before the Lord.'''


It is obvious to me you do not understand the message of the person who wrote half the books of the new covenant

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I understand what you are saying. You have a set of beliefs that you accept and
if another does not agree with one of them, they are just wrong.

It is a way of believing, but it does not lead to discussion or debate, just some
no communicative statements.

One reason the church came up with the nicene creed was to avoid such issues
simply. As you declare yourself a "christian" aligning yourself with a theological
tradition is not your style. I on the other hand am a baptist with a theology similar
to Wesley and the methodists. Now if you reject these well thought through positions
then discussion is somewhat limited.