WHO DO YOU FOLLOW THE TRADITIONS OF MEN OR THE WORD OF GOD (JESUS)?

LoveGodsWord · Oct 5, 2018

bekkilyn said:
Would be nice if these were actually quoted in context. You conveniently left out the preceding verses of Romans 3:31 where Paul isn't talking about re-establishing (or continuing) the law of Moses and the old covenant as you are interpreting it here.

They are topical references on "FAITH" (some call topical bible study) the context and subject matter, scritpure verses scripture is "FAITH" let's look at some examples..

EPHESIANS 2:8-9
[8], For by grace are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
[9], Not of works, lest any man should boast.

ROMANS 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yes, we establish the law.

Paul is showing that we are only saved by FAITH but true FAITH establishes God's LAW through love as shown in..

ROMANS 13:8-10
[8], Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loves another has fulfilled the law.
[9], For this, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not kill, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, You shall not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly summed up in this saying, namely, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
[10], Love works no ill to his neighbor: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

this is the NEW COVENANT promise of those who have FAITH *HEBREWS 8:10-12.

James says it this way..

JAMES 2:18-20; 26
[18], Yea, a man may say, You have faith, and I have works: show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.
[19], You believe that there is one God; you do well: the demons also believe, and tremble.
[20], But will you know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

[26], For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Jesus agrees with James...

JOHN 8:39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus said unto them, If you were Abraham's children, you would do the works of Abraham.

The NEW COVENANT promise is a new heart to love through faith and LOVE is the fulfilling of God's LAW in all those who believe and follow God's WORD *HEBREWS 8:10-12; ROMANS 13:8-10; 1 JOHN 3:3-10

1 JOHN 5:4, For whoever is born of God overcomes the world: and this is the victory that overcomes the world, even our faith.

Yep context is established in faith. Those who practiceknown sin [breaking God's Commandments] do not have faith because they are still practicing sin and their faith is dead.

This is why Jesus says; IF you LOVE me keep my commandmetns *JOHN 14:15

Hope this helps.

bekkilyn · Oct 5, 2018

LoveGodsWord said:
They are topical references on "FAITH" (some call topical bible study) the context and subject matter, scritpure verses scripture is "FAITH" let's look at some examples..

EPHESIANS 2:8-9
[8], For by grace are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
[9], Not of works, lest any man should boast.

ROMANS 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yes, we establish the law.

Paul is showing that we are only saved by FAITH but true FAITH establishes God's LAW through love as shown in..

ROMANS 13:8-10
[8], Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loves another has fulfilled the law.
[9], For this, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not kill, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, You shall not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly summed up in this saying, namely, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
[10], Love works no ill to his neighbor: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

this is the NEW COVENANT promise of those who have FAITH *HEBREWS 8:10-12.

James says it this way..

JAMES 2:18-20; 26
[18], Yea, a man may say, You have faith, and I have works: show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.
[19], You believe that there is one God; you do well: the demons also believe, and tremble.
[20], But will you know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

[26], For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Jesus agrees with James...

JOHN 8:39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus said unto them, If you were Abraham's children, you would do the works of Abraham.

The NEW COVENANT promise is a new heart to love through faith and LOVE is the fulfilling of God's LAW in all those who believe and follow God's WORD *HEBREWS 8:10-12; ROMANS 13:8-10; 1 JOHN 3:3-10

1 JOHN 5:4, For whoever is born of God overcomes the world: and this is the victory that overcomes the world, even our faith.

Yep context is established in faith. Those who practiceknown sin [breaking God's Commandments] do not have faith because they are still practicing sin and their faith is dead.

This is why Jesus says; IF you LOVE me keep my commandmetns *JOHN 14:15

Hope this helps.

Wow, you've managed to cherry-pick even more verses out of context in an attempt to "prove" that faith is the same as obeying the ten commandments, though when you put those verses back into the context of the whole, that's not what their message is stating at all or even what Jesus' commandments are and what they are about and what they mean.

You know what "faith without works" means? Nothing to do with obeying the ten commandments. It's about people who don't show evidence of the fruit of the Spirit. They may believe in the existence of Jesus (like the devils do), but they haven't been transformed in any way by the Spirit. Not because they've broken a law, but because they haven't received Jesus into their hearts.

There is also a very specific definition for faith in the new testament that one can use without having to mangle scripture context. I wonder if you know where it is since it's conveniently left out of your concordances. (I'll give you a hint...it's somewhere in Hebrews.)

To twist scripture away from grace and towards bondage is a false gospel.

LoveGodsWord · Oct 5, 2018

bekkilyn said:
Wow, you've managed to cherry-pick even more verses out of context in an attempt to "prove" that faith is the same as obeying the ten commandments, though when you put those verses back into the context of the whole, that's not what their message is stating at all or even what Jesus' commandments are and what they are about and what they mean.

You know what "faith without works" means? Nothing to do with obeying the ten commandments. It's about people who don't show evidence of the fruit of the Spirit. They may believe in the existence of Jesus (like the devils do), but they haven't been transformed in any way by the Spirit. Not because they've broken a law, but because they haven't received Jesus into their hearts.

There is also a very specific definition for faith in the new testament that one can use without having to mangle scripture context. I wonder if you know where it is since it's conveniently left out of your concordances. (I'll give you a hint...it's somewhere in Hebrews.)

To twist scripture away from grace and towards bondage is a false gospel.

Not at all, you have been shown God's WORD and simply respond with your own. They are God's WORD not mine so your argument is with God not me.

Do you have any scriptures to share or can you prove respond to any post I have provided and show why you think it is not God's WORD? As shown earlier this is a topical bible study and the context is faith.

You have made many accusations how about you prove them? If you cannot why do you not believe and follow God's WORD?

bekkilyn · Oct 5, 2018

LoveGodsWord said:
Not at all, you have been shown God's WORD and simply respond with your own. They are God's WORD not mine so your argument is with God not me.

Do you have any scriptures to share or can you prove respond to any post I have provided and show why you think it is not God's WORD? As shown earlier this is a topical bible study and the context is faith.

You have made many accusations how about you prove them? If you cannot why do you not believe and follow God's WORD?

If you don't want to read the bible, that's your choice.

LoveGodsWord · Oct 5, 2018

bekkilyn said:
If you don't want to read the bible, that's your choice.

If you do not know God's WORD how can you have faith when faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God *ROMANS 10:17? If you have no faith how can you be born of God and overcome the World * 1 JOHN 5:4. If you are not born of God then you are still in your sins and do not know God because you have rejected the gift of God's dear son *1 JOHN 2:3-4; 1 JOHN 3:3-10; ROMANS 6:23; HEBREWS 10:26-27; HEBREWS 6:4-8. Only God's WORD is true and we should believe and follow it. Jesus says those who believe and follow the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God are not following God *MATTHEW 15:3-9. There is nothing hidden that shall not be revealed come judgment day *JOHN 12:47-48; LUKE 8:17; REVELATION 14:12; 22:14

bekkilyn · Oct 5, 2018

LoveGodsWord said:
If you do not know God's WORD how can you have faith when faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God *ROMANS 10:17? If you have no faith how can you be born of God and overcome the World * 1 JOHN 5:4. If you are not born of God then you are still in your sins and do not know God because you have rejected the gift of God's dear son *1 JOHN 2:3-4; 1 JOHN 3:3-10; ROMANS 6:23; HEBREWS 10:26-27; HEBREWS 6:4-8. Only God's WORD is true and we should believe and follow it. Jesus says those who believe and follow the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God are not following God *MATTHEW 15:3-9. There is nothing hidden that shall not be revealed come judgment day *JOHN 12:47-48; LUKE 8:17; REVELATION 14:12; 22:14

Another programmed response. Maybe try reading the bible as a whole so you can begin to understand what some of those verses mean.

LoveGodsWord · Oct 5, 2018

bekkilyn said:
Another programmed response. Maybe try reading the bible as a whole so you can begin to understand what some of those verses mean.

Not at all. It is called God's WORD. We should believe and follow it. Many do not believe and follow it or will they come to it because if they do they will be reproved.

JOHN 3:19-21
[19], And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
[20], For every one that does evil hates the light, neither comes to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
[21], But he that does truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are worked in God.

Many are called but few are chosen.

Natsumi Lam · Oct 6, 2018

This thread has turned into hostility, disrespect and distain. From godly people...this is quite sad...teaches me to come back to CHRISTIAN forums after 10 yrs.

LoveGodsWord · Oct 6, 2018

Natsumi Lam said:
This thread has turned into hostility, disrespect and distain. From godly people...this is quite sad...teaches me to come back to CHRISTIAN forums after 10 yrs.

Not from my side. I have only provided God's WORD. It is not hostile but given to us in love because God is love and is not willing that any of us should perish but that all should come to repentance *2 PETER 3:9. Some do not want to hear it neither will they come to it *JOHN 3:18-21. Some will come to it but many are called and few are chosen *MATTHEW 22:14.

God's Sheep hear his Voice (the Word)

LoveGodsWord · Oct 6, 2018

Continuing on from the OP...

GOD'S WORD vs TRADITIONS OF MEN PART 2/2

PERSECUTION OF THE OBEDIENT BY THE DISOBEDIENT

................

2TIMOTHY 3:12 Yes, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

................

It is amazing how those that do not have God's WORD to supoport their traditions that break the commandments of God accuse those who have God's WORD of things that are not true.

The religious teachers in the days of Jesus said that he had a devil and his followers were a cult this was also independently verifiable in the days of Jesus and the Apostles. Just ask the Jews who hung Jesus on the cross (John 7:20; John 8:48; 52; Matt 10:25 12:24; Acts 28:22).

This could be said of all those who followed Jesus throughout time even before Jesus the religious teachers of the day killed the prophets sent to them by God to share God's WORD (Luke 11:47; Matt 23:31)

Stephen was stoned to death it was independently verified that he was blaspheming because no one could argue with the scriptures that he was presenting (Acts 6:8-15).

Paul, Peter and most of the Apostles were also executed because it was independently verified by the religious teachers of the day that they could not respond to God's WORD they were sharing with them.

Not to mention all those of the reformation and the birth of Protestantism and the inquisition of the Roman Catholic Church which executed millions of God's people because it was independently verified by the Roman Catholic Church that they were all heretics and should be burned at the stake.

Now today you call heretic or cult because it is independently verified because you cannot respond to the scriptures that disagree with your Catholic traditions which has led many to break God's Commandments?

ONLY God's WORD is true and you do not have it to support your tradition that breaks the commandments of God. The WORD of God is sent to help you have a closer walk with God but you reject God's WORD in order to follow the traditions of the fathers.

Jesus and Paul spoke correctly quoting Isaiah;

Well spoke the Holy Spirit by Isaiah the prophet unto our fathers, Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing you shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing you shall see, and not perceive: For the heart of this people is stubborn, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Something to think about who do we BELIEVE and FOLLOW? The teachings and traditions of men that break the Commandments of God or the WORD of GOD. Jesus says those who follow man made traditions that break God's Commandments are not following him...

MATTHEW 15:2-9 [2], Why do your disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread. [3], But he answered and said to them, Why do you also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition? [4], For God commanded, saying, Honor your father and mother: and, He that curses father or mother, let him die the death. [5], But you say, Whoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatever you might be profited by me; [6], And honor not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have you made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition. [7], You hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, [8], This people draws near to me with their mouth, and honors me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. [9], But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

It is very clear according to Jesus if we follow the teachings and traditions of men that break the Commandments of GOD we are not following God.

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).

.......................

SIN is the breaking of God's Commandments (James 2:9-11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4) Those who CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

.......................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

stephen pollard · Oct 6, 2018

Natsumi Lam said:
This thread has turned into hostility, disrespect and distain. From godly people...this is quite sad...teaches me to come back to CHRISTIAN forums after 10 yrs.

These sites are for theological debate, that has little to do with Godling living. Was Christ Godly? How did he speak to those who had the yeast of hypocrisy, the religious who did not practice what they preached. He reserved his harshest words for them. It may be, that some do not want to simply view debates as theological enterprises, but feel as Christ did, where hypocrisy was concerned, out of concern for those who may be crushed by the demands of others who do not even try and practice what they preach

Natsumi Lam · Oct 6, 2018

stephen pollard said:
These sites are for theological debate, that has little to do with Godling living. Was Christ Godly? How did he speak to those who had the yeast of hypocrisy, the religious who did not practice what they preached. He reserved his harshest words for them. It may be, that some do not want to simply view debates as theological enterprises, but feel as Christ did, where hypocrisy was concerned, out of concern for those who may be crushed by the demands of others who do not even try and practice what they preach

My concern was not the debate or harsh words. It is the disrespect through mocking.

stephen pollard · Oct 6, 2018

Natsumi Lam said:
My concern was not the debate or harsh words. It is the disrespect through mocking.

Well I don't know which posts you are specifically referring to, but I do not have respect for those who demand of others what they do not demand of themselves, no. I am certainly not always faultless, but in this, I do believe I am guided by love for my neighbour, which I hope many of us would be, for those who may become crushed by people insisting of them what they do not even try to attain to in their own lives
Jesus lived among sinners, but he reserved his harshest words for the religious who acted this way

Cis.jd · Oct 6, 2018

Jason0047 said:
Is everything God does fallible or infallible?
Did God ultimately create the Bible?

If you believe the canon of the Bible is fallible,
then why believe in it?
Personally, I know God did create the Bible, and I know the canon is infallible, true, and trust worthy because there are many evidences showing that God's Word is divine. Things do not need to be as you say in order for Sola Scriptura to be true. God does not have to conform to your logic.

Besides, the problem here is that you are attacking the Bible to make a point. However, you cannot tear down that which you are supposed to build up. We are supposed to fight the good fight of faith, and we are not to tear it down by making folks doubt our trust in the canon of Scripture.

Yes I believe what God does is infallible. I'm not attacking the Bible at all and everything you wrote here shows you didn't understand anything about my arguments.

The question isn't about God making the Bible, the question is why do you believe that the canon you have in your books is the correct word of God when there is nothing in the Bible that is telling you what the actual canon books are?

I don't understand why you are miscomprehending this or misrepresenting this to mean an attack on the Bible when it's rather obvious on how it's an attack on your reasoning and logic.

Cis.jd · Oct 6, 2018

LoveGodsWord said:
Not from my side. I have only provided God's WORD. It is not hostile but given to us in love because God is love and is not willing that any of us should perish but that all should come to repentance *2 PETER 3:9. Some do not want to hear it neither will they come to it *JOHN 3:18-21. Some will come to it but many are called and few are chosen *MATTHEW 22:14.

God's Sheep hear his Voice (the Word)

But one thing is why do you believe these verses and the books that contain these verse are the word of God? I mean if you are all about "what the scripture says" then I just don't understand how you guys don't see the irony of being so sure about what the exact canon scriptures are since nothing in the Bible says which books are to be canon? Why do you believe 2 Peter over Revelations of Peter? I hope to not read "well, because dates etc.." or "well, I just have faith" because that shows you don't adhear to scripture alone.

LoveGodsWord · Oct 6, 2018

Cis.jd said:
But one thing is why do you believe these verses and the books that contain these verse are the word of God? I mean if you are all about "what the scripture says" then I just don't understand how you guys don't see the irony of being so sure about what the exact canon scriptures are since nothing in the Bible says which books are to be canon? Why do you believe 2 Peter over Revelations of Peter? I hope to not read "well, because dates etc.." or "well, I just have faith" because that shows you don't adhear to scripture alone.

Do you believe God is in control of his Word and what words he wants given to mankind or do you not believe God is in control of his Word and what words should be in the bible? You ask me my answer? Maybe you may not understand it but my answer will it is God's WORD because I have faith God made it that way for all of mankind and he is in control of his WORD and what he has in the bible.

As the scriptures say Faith comes by hearing and hearig by the Word of God. All scripture is given by inspiration of God *ROMANS 10:17; 2 TIMOTHY 3:16 and this is what we are to live by *MATTHEW 4:4

Bible Highlighter · Oct 6, 2018

Cis.jd said:
Yes I believe what God does is infallible. I'm not attacking the Bible at all and everything you wrote here shows you didn't understand anything about my arguments.

The question isn't about God making the Bible, the question is why do you believe that the canon you have in your books is the correct word of God when there is nothing in the Bible that is telling you what the actual canon books are?

I don't understand why you are miscomprehending this or misrepresenting this to mean an attack on the Bible when it's rather obvious on how it's an attack on your reasoning and logic.

My point is that you don't attack that which you support. For example: You cannot make an argument against love if you are for love. You cannot make an argument against Sola Scriptura by speaking against NT canon, if you are truly in favor of NT canon. Faith comes by hearing and hearing the Word of God. It is a revelation by faith. God uses His Word to transform the heart. As I said to you before, there are exceptions to the rule on things. Also, there are other evidences confirming God's Word is divine in origin. Your repeatedly are saying we cannot know which books are NT canon and then on the other hand you are saying you believe NT canon; However, this line of thinking is basically like a dog chasing it's own tail.

Cis.jd · Oct 7, 2018

Jason0047 said:
My point is that you don't attack that which you support. For example: You cannot make an argument against love if you are for love. You cannot make an argument against Sola Scriptura by speaking against NT canon, if you are truly in favor of NT canon. Faith comes by hearing and hearing the Word of God. It is a revelation by faith. God uses His Word to transform the heart. As I said to you before, there are exceptions to the rule on things. Also, there are other evidences confirming God's Word is divine in origin. Your repeatedly are saying we cannot know which books are NT canon and then on the other hand you are saying you believe NT canon; However, this line of thinking is basically like a dog chasing it's own tail.

For you to spin my argument (or misunderstand it) as if i'm purposefully attacking the bible means you are either trolling or (i have to say it straight) you can't comprehend what you are reading.

The reason why I am asking you these question involving the legitimacy of the canon/the bible is because your arguments where "tradition is bad... scripture alone". So my argument to that is in the form of a question: "Why do you believe the NT Canon then, when this is not named in scripture"?

For you to spin that and make it look as if I am attacking the Bible, not making sense because of saying I believe in the NT yet "question" the canon in the next post shows that you are either stooping to trolling or your comprehension skills needs serious improvement.

--

Now on to those answers you gave: "There are exceptions to the rule on things", "other evidences".
So in other words, the canon isn't mentioned in the Bible and you still believe it regardless. Then right now, you can't continue with this "tradition is bad, scripture alone has to say" stance anymore. You are telling me how "Scripture alone has to say" yet you strongly believe in something that isn't in the Bible?

Cis.jd · Oct 7, 2018

LoveGodsWord said:
Do you believe God is in control of his Word and what words he wants given to mankind or do you not believe God is in control of his Word and what words should be in the bible? You ask me my answer? Maybe you may not understand it but my answer will it is God's WORD because I have faith God made it that way for all of mankind and he is in control of his WORD and what he has in the bible.

As the scriptures say Faith comes by hearing and hearig by the Word of God. All scripture is given by inspiration of God *ROMANS 10:17; 2 TIMOTHY 3:16 and this is what we are to live by *MATTHEW 4:4

Yes I do. But where in his word did he state what books should be canonized? How do you know that God's true words where rejected and the canon we have now is just what man selected?

I know, your answer is that you have faith that God made it that way but you still have no scripture mentioning/confirmation for these books; so isn't it ironic for you to be making threads telling everyone that "we should believe/follow what is said in the Bible and reject what is not" ?

LoveGodsWord · Oct 7, 2018

Cis.jd said:
Yes I do. But where in his word did he state what books should be canonized?

Here you say you believe God is in control of his Word and what goes in the bible. Then in the next breath you say "But where in his word did he state what books should be canonized?". This only shows you do not believe God is in control of his Word or what goes in the bible and is contradiction of what you previously stated.

Cis.jd said:
How do you know that God's true words where rejected and the canon we have now is just what man selected?

As I said before I have faith that God is in control of his Word and what constitutes his written Word in the bible.

Cis.jd said:
I know, your answer is that you have faith that God made it that way but you still have no scripture mentioning/confirmation for these books; so isn't it ironic for you to be making threads telling everyone that "we should believe/follow what is said in the Bible and reject what is not" ?

Not at all. God's WORD says faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. It seems you have no faith that the bible is really God's WORD and God is not in control of his WORD that he wants mankind to have. If that is the case how can you have faith if faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God? What is the next step in your conversation if you have no faith that God's WORD is God's WORD and that God is in conrol of what makes up the bible? Will your next question be how do you know the bible is really God's WORD? The victory that overcomes the world is our faith in God's WORD *1 JOHN 5:4. If you have no faith in God's WORD then you are still in your sins *ROMANS 14:23.

WHO DO YOU FOLLOW THE TRADITIONS OF MEN OR THE WORD OF GOD (JESUS)?

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