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LoveGodsWord

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Ask the Jews as it is from their own OT/OC scriptures..........
Also, get them to read our NT/NC book of Revelation, and all things will be clear to them :)


LUKE 21 MATTHEW 24 OLIVET DISCOURSE CONTROVERSY [Poll Thread]

YLT]
2 Corinthians 3
12 Having, then, such hope, we use much freedom of speech, 13 and [are] not as Moses, who was putting a veil upon his own face, for the sons of Israel not stedfastly to look to the end of that which is being made useless, 14 but their minds were hardened, for unto this day the same vail at the reading of the Old Covenant doth remain unwithdrawn — which in Christ is being made useless — 15 but till to-day, when Moses is read, a vail upon their heart doth lie,
16 and whenever they may turn unto the Lord, the vail is taken away

Why would you go and ask the Jews when Jesus told the Jews they did not know how to keep the Sabbath? *MATTHEW 12:1-12; MARK 2:27-28.

In the days of Jesus the religious teachers of the day had placed so many man made traditions around Sabbath keeping that it had become a burden to the people. It was though in their eyes MANKIND was made for the Sabbath. It was so bad in fact that these religious teachers were constantly looking for ways to accuse Jesus of breaking the Sabbath (Matt 12:1-2; 10; Mark 3:2'; Luke 6:1-2).

Jesus rebuked these religious teachers by saying that the Sabbath was made for MAN and NOT MAN for the SABBATH (Mark 2:27 and that he was the CREATOR or LORD of the Sabbath (Mark 2:28) and it was LAWFUL to do GOOD on the SABBATH (Matt 12:12).

If you do not know what the OLD COVENANT is how can you understand what the NEW COVENANT is? In the days of Jesus and the Apostles the OLD TESTAMENT scriptures were the bible. Everything that we have in the NEW TESTAMENT comes from the OLD. If you have lost your key how can you open a locked door *JOHN 10:9?
 
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LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
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If you do not know what the OLD COVENANT is how can you understand what the NEW COVENANT is? In the days of Jesus and the Apostles the OLD TESTAMENT scriptures were the bible. Everything that we have in the NEW TESTAMENT comes from the OLD. If you have lost your key how can you open a locked door *JOHN 10:9?
Yep.


LUKE 21 MATTHEW 24 OLIVET DISCOURSE CONTROVERSY [Poll Thread]

Luke 19:
41 And as He nears, beholding the City, and He laments on Her,
42 saying, "That if Thou knew and Thou, even indeed in this day, the toward peace of Thee,
now yet it was hid from Thy eyes. [Luke 21:20/Revelation 18:19]

Luke 21:20
Whenever yet may be seeing Jerusalem surrounded by armies,
then be knowing that is nigh the desolating<2050> of Her

2050. eremosis er-ay'-mo-sis from 2049;

2049. eremoo er-ay-mo'-o from 2048; to lay waste (literally or figuratively):--(bring to, make) desolate(-ion), come to nought.
Strong's Number G2049 matches the Greek ἐρημόω (erēmoō), which occurs 5 times in 5 verses
[2 times in Gospels: Matthew 12:25 and Luke 11:17. The other 3 times in Revelation 18:19]

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD
"I consider the Prophecy relative to the destruction of the Jewish nation,
if there were nothing else to support Christianity, as absolutely irresistible."
(Mr. Erskine's Speech, at the Trial of Williams, for publishing Paine's Age of Reason)

Revelation 18:19
and they did cast dust upon their heads, and were crying out, weeping and sorrowing, saying, Woe, woe, the great City! in which were made rich all having ships in the sea, out of her costliness --
for in one hour was She made waste<2049>.


Allusions in Revelation from Old Testament

THE SYMBOLISM IN BOOK OF REVELATION


One man studied and found 348 allusions (not illusions, Light) in Revelation from the Old Testament. You see the similarity in wording and the context mirrored in Revelation and the particular Old Testament story, and immediately can recognize the reference source!
That's IF you know the bible well enough to even notice that.


95 of the 348 plain references used in Revelation as taken from the Old Testament are repeated in Revelation.
That makes about 250 Old Testament passages are cited. How many chapters are in Revelation? 22. That makes about TEN OLD TESTAMENT REFERENCES FOR EVERY CHAPTER!

Allusions in Revelation from Old Testament
Books in Daniel Daniel 7:9 and 11:10.
Allusions in Revelation from Old Testament
Cried/weep and joy Temple/City: Ezra 3:12,13 and Reve 18:18, 19:4
Allusions in Revelation from Old Testament
Ear to hear: Isaiah 6:9,10 and Matt 13:15, Reve 2,3,13
Allusions in Revelation from Old Testament
Holy Holy Holy Isaiah 6:6 and Revelation 4:8
Allusions in Revelation from Old Testament
Jericho, Priest and Trumpets: Joshua 6:4, Hebrews 11:30, Matt 24:31, Reve 8:6
Allusions in Revelation from Old Testament
Lift hands to heaven and swore..: Daniel 2:7 and Reve 10:5
Allusions in Revelation from Old Testament
Light Revelation to Israel and Nations: Isaiah 9:2, Luke 2:32, Reve 1:1
Allusions in Revelation from Old Testament
Moses and Elijah, fire falling, as is also seen in Revelation.
Allusions in Revelation from Old Testament
Moses and Elijah
https://www.christianforums.com/thr...om-old-testament.7588850/page-6#post-73140020
Mountain of fire cast into Sea
Allusions in Revelation from Old Testament
Pierced: Zech 12:10 and Reve 1:7
Allusions in Revelation from Old Testament
Sacrifice/Supper of God: Ezek 39:17 and Reve 19:17
https://www.christianforums.com/thr...om-old-testament.7588850/page-6#post-72893026
Sanctuary/Tabernacle filled with smoke
Allusions in Revelation from Old Testament
https://www.christianforums.com/thr...ion-from-old-testament.7588850/#post-58432014
Silence/Hush: Zech 1:7, 2:13 and Reve 8:1
Allusions in Revelation from Old Testament
Sodom and Egypt: Matt 2:15, Reve 11:8
Allusions in Revelation from Old Testament
Song of Moses: Exodus 15:1 and Revelation 15:3
Allusions in Revelation from Old Testament
Spirit lifting, taking Ezekiel and John
Allusions in Revelation from Old Testament
Stars 7
Allusions in Revelation from Old Testament
Tree of Life and Garden: Genesis 3:24 and Reve 2:7
Allusions in Revelation from Old Testament
Whip.........Nahum 3:2, John 2:15,


 
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Dkh587

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Of course it was. You really should look up the scriptures before posting. Noah was commanded to bring 7 of the clean animals onto the ark because only clean animals were used for sacrifices, and they had to do a lot of sacrificing.

Genesis 9:3 Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you. I have given you all things, even as the green herbs. 4 But you shall not eat flesh with its life, that is, its blood.

Remember this law was for the animals as well as man. The animals only ate vegetation until then, as their instincts are from God.

Genesis 2:9 And out of the ground the Lord God made every tree grow that is pleasant to the sight and good for food.

1 Timothy 4:4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing is to be refused if it is received with thanksgiving; 5 for it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

Separating the Jews from the Gentiles: Leviticus 20:25 You shall therefore distinguish between clean animals and unclean, between unclean birds and clean, and you shall not make yourselves abominable by beast or by bird, or by any kind of living thing that creeps on the ground, which I have separated from you as unclean. 26 And you shall be holy to Me, for I the Lord am holy, and have separated you from the peoples, that you should be Mine.


Acts 10:14 But Peter said, “Not so, Lord! For I have never eaten anything common or unclean.” 15 And a voice spoke to him again the second time, “What God has cleansed you must not call common.” 16 This was done three times. And the object was taken up into heaven again.

1 Corinthians 6:12 All things are lawful for me, but all things are not helpful. All things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any. 13 Foods for the stomach and the stomach for foods, but God will destroy both it and them. Now the body is not for sexual immorality but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body.

Colossians 2:16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, 17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ. 18 Let no one cheat you of your reward, taking delight in false humility and worship of angels, intruding into those things which he has not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, 19 and not holding fast to the Head, from whom all the body, nourished and knit together by joints and ligaments, grows with the increase that is from God. 20 Therefore, if you died with Christ from the basic principles of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to regulations— 21 “Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle,” 22 which all concern things which perish with the using—according to the commandments and doctrines of men? 23 These things indeed have an appearance of wisdom in self-imposed religion, false humility, and neglect of the body, but are of no value against the indulgence of the flesh.

None of those scriptures say anything about swine being lawful to eat - not in the past, present or future.

Do you have any other scriptures that teach swine being lawful to eat, or that it was ever lawful to eat?
 
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LoveGodsWord

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CLEAN AND UNCLEAN FOODS

For me personally I believe the health laws that God has given us still apply because it is the Word of God and I can't find anywhere in God's Word that says these laws have changed. If God says something we should obey him. He has given us health laws for a reason. However I do not judge in relation to food and drink.


2 CORINTHIANS 6:16
16, And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? FOR YOU ARE THE TEMPLE OF GOD; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

19, What? KNOW YOU NOT THAT YOUR BODY IS THE TEMPLE OF THE HOLY GHOST which is in you, which ye have of God, and YOU ARE NOT YOUR OWN?

the health laws were given to God's people because we are the temple of God and he is the live in us.........

1 CORINTHIANS 3:16
16, KNOW YOU NOT THAT YOU ARE THE TEMPLE OF GOD, and that the SPIRIT OF GOD DWELLS IN YOU? 17, IF ANY MAN DEFILES THE TEMPLE OF GOD, HIM SHALL GOD DESTROY; FOR THE TEMPLE OF GOD IS HOLY, WHICH TEMPLE YOU ARE.

This includes sin from the heart (Matthew 15:18).

These are some of the dietary laws God has given his people.....

AFTER THE FLOOD (most animals dead)

GENESIS 9:3-4
3, Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you. I have given you all things, even as the green herbs. 4, BUT THE THE FLESH WITH THE LIFE THEREOF, WHICH IS IN THE BLOOD THEREOF YOU SHALL NOT EAT.

DEUTERONOMY 15:23 Only THOU SHALT NOT EAT THE BLOOD thereof; thou shalt pour it upon the ground as water.

LEVITICUS 19:26 YOU SHALL NOT EAT ANYTHING WITH THE BLOOD : neither shall ye use enchantment, nor observe times.

1 SAMUAL 14:34 And Saul said, Disperse yourselves among the people, and say unto them, Bring me hither every man his ox, and every man his sheep, and slay them here, and eat; and SIN NOT AGAINST THE LORD IN EATING WITH THE BLOOD. And all the people brought every man his ox with him that night, and slew them there.

most meats unless kosher have the blood in it...

..............

LEVITICUS 11:47 To MAKE A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE CLEAN AND THE UNCLEAN, and between the beast that may be eaten and the beast that may not be eaten.

CLEAN AND UNCLEAN (SANCTIFIED BY THE WORD OF GOD 1 TOMOTHY 4:4)

DEUTERONOMY 14:3-21
3, THOU SHALT NOT EAT ANY ABOMINABLE THING.
4, These are the beasts which ye shall eat: the ox, the sheep, and the goat,
5, The hart, and the roebuck, and the fallow deer, and the wild goat, and the pygarg, and the wild ox, and the chamois.
6, And every beast that parteth the hoof, and cleaveth the cleft into two claws, and cheweth the cud among the beasts, that ye shall eat.
7, Nevertheless these ye shall not eat of them that chew the cud, or of them that divide the cloven hoof; as the camel, and the hare, and the coney: for they chew the cud, but divide not the hoof; therefore they are unclean unto you.
8, And the swine, because it divideth the hoof, yet cheweth not the cud, it is unclean unto you: ye shall not eat of their flesh, nor touch their dead carcase.
9, These ye shall eat of all that are in the waters: all that have fins and scales shall ye eat:
10, And whatsoever hath not fins and scales ye may not eat; it is unclean unto you.
11, Of all clean birds ye shall eat.
12, But these are they of which ye shall not eat: the eagle, and the ossifrage, and the ospray,
13, And the glede, and the kite, and the vulture after his kind,
14, And every raven after his kind,
15, And the owl, and the night hawk, and the cuckow, and the hawk after his kind,
16, The little owl, and the great owl, and the swan,
17, And the pelican, and the gier eagle, and the cormorant,
18, And the stork, and the heron after her kind, and the lapwing, and the bat.
19, And every creeping thing that flieth is unclean unto you: they shall not be eaten.
20, But of all clean fowls ye may eat.
21, Ye shall not eat of any thing that dieth of itself: thou shalt give it unto the stranger that is in thy gates, that he may eat it; or thou mayest sell it unto an alien: for thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God. Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk.


ISAIAH 65:2; 4; 8

[2], I have spread out my hands all the day unto a rebellious people, which walked in a way that was not good, after their own thoughts; 3, A people that provoked me to anger continually to my face; that sacrifices in gardens, and burns incense upon altars of brick;

[4], Which remain among the graves, and lodge in the monuments, WHICH EATS SWINES FLESH, and BROTH OF ABOMINABLE THINGS ARE IN THEIR VESSELS; 5, Which say, Stand by thyself, come not near to me; for I am holier than thou. These are a smoke in my nose, a fire that burns all the day. 6, Behold, it is written before me: I will not keep silence, but will recompense, even recompense into their bosom, 7, Your iniquities, and the iniquities of your fathers together, saith the LORD, which have burned incense upon the mountains, and blasphemed me upon the hills: therefore will I measure their former work into their bosom.

[8], Thus saith the LORD, As the new wine is found in the cluster, and one saith, Destroy it not; for a blessing is in it: so will I do for my servants' sake, that I may not destroy them all.

ISAIAH 66:4-18
4, I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not. 5, Hear the word of the LORD, ye that tremble at his word; Your brethren that hated you, that cast you out for my name's sake, said, Let the LORD be glorified: but he shall appear to your joy, and they shall be ashamed. 6, A voice of noise from the city, a voice from the temple, a voice of the LORD that rendersrecompence to his enemies.7, Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child. 8, Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children. 9, Shall I bring to the birth, and not cause to bring forth? saith the LORD: shall I cause to bring forth, and shut the womb? saith thy God. 10, Rejoice ye with Jerusalem, and be glad with her, all ye that love her: rejoice for joy with her, all ye that mourn for her:11, That ye may suck, and be satisfied with the breasts of her consolations; that ye may milk out, and be delighted with the abundance of her glory. 12, For thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will extend peace to her like a river, and the glory of the Gentiles like a flowing stream: then shall ye suck, ye shall be borne upon her sides, and be dandled upon her knees.13, As one whom his mother comforts, so will I comfort you; and ye shall be comforted in Jerusalem. 14, And when ye see this, your heart shall rejoice, and your bones shall flourish like an herb: and the hand of the LORD shall be known toward his servants, and his indignation toward his enemies. 15, For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire. 16, For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many. 17, They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, EATING SWINES FLESH, and THE ABOMINATION, AND THE MOUSE, SHALL BE CONSUMED TOGETHER, SAYS THE LORD. 18, For I know their works and their thoughts: it shall come, that I will gather all nations and tongues; and they shall come, and see my glory....

22, For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain. 23, And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD. 24, And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcasses of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.


EZEKIEL 22:26
Her priests have violated my law, and have profaned mine holy things: they have put no difference between the holy and profane, NEITHER HAVE THEY MADE A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE CLEAN AND THE UNCLEAN <see Leviticus 11:47>, and have hid their eyes from my SABBATHS, and I am profaned among them.


Some believe that Peter's vision means we can ignore the dietary laws that were given by God...

ACTS 10:1-17
1, There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band, 2, A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God always. 3, He saw in a vision evidently about the ninth hour of the day an angel of God coming in to him, and saying unto him, Cornelius. 4, And when he looked on him, he was afraid, and said, What is it, Lord? And he said unto him, Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God. 5, And now send men to Joppa, and call for one Simon, whose surname is Peter: 6, He lodges with one Simon a tanner, whose house is by the sea side: he shall tell thee what you should do. 7, And when the angel which spake unto Cornelius was departed, he called two of his household servants, and a devout soldier of them that waited on him continually; 8, And when he had declared all these things unto them, he sent them to Joppa.................


9, On the morrow, as they went on their journey, and drew nigh unto the city, Peter went up upon the housetop to pray about the sixth hour:
10, And he became very hungry, and would have eaten: but while they made ready, he fell into a trance,
11, And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth:
12, Wherein were all manner of four footed beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.
13, And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.
14, But Peter said, NOT SO LORD FOR I HAVE NEVER EATEN ANYTHING THAT IS UNCLEAN AND COMMON.
15, And the voice spake unto him again the second time, WHAT GOD HAS CLEANSED, THAT DO NOT CALL COMMON.
16, This was done thrice: and the vessel was received up again into heaven.
17, Now while Peter doubted in himself what this vision which he had seen should mean, behold, the men which were sent from Cornelius had made inquiry for Simon's house, and stood before the gate,

Now the question here to consider is what was it that God had cleansed and we should not call common, this is what Peter was thinking about. While Peter was thinking about what was the meaning of the vision The praying gentile that believed God was at his gate asking for Peter...

18, And called, and asked whether Simon, which was surnamed Peter, were lodged there.
19, While Peter thought on the vision, the Spirit said unto him, Behold, three men seek thee.
20, Arise therefore, and get thee down, and go with them, doubting nothing: for I have sent them.

What was it that God was teaching Peter.....

27, And as he talked with him, he went in, and found many that were come together.

28, And he said unto them, YOU KNOW THAT IT IS AN UNLAWFUL THING FOR A MAN THAT IS A JEW TO KEEP COMPANY, OR COME UNTO ONE OF ANOTHER NATION; BUT GOD HAS SHOWN ME THAT I SHOULD NOT CALL ANY MAN COMMON OR UNCLEAN

So the vision was not about saying that all foods are clean but that now all man are clean and that the Believers can preach the Gospel to the Gentiles...

…………

1 Timothy 4:4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing is to be refused if it is received with thanksgiving; 5 for it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

This is a reference of food that can be eaten that is sanctified by the word of God. This is a reference back to what foods God says are clean and unclean not a reference saying you can eat anything.

The Old Covenant and the New Covenant has always been about salvation and we are saved in the same way that God's people have always been saved and that is by faith in believing and following God's Word. (Hebrews 11)

Just some thoughts from God's WORD.
 
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klutedavid

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I can assure you, the sda members I met all believed heaven hinges on obeying the ten commandments. More than one sda member on the internet plainly stated: We all know our justification is obeying the ten commandments. It may not doctrinally be spelt out like that, but that is the reality of what members believe
What you said is true.

SDA believe that not honoring the Sabbath is a sin. Further on this Sabbath sin, those who go to church on the first day, in the end times are given the mark of the beast. The mark of the beast is actually first day worship.

So logically, any Christian going to church on the first day has the future, mark of the beast.

Grace then becomes of no effect to any Christian, because in the end, it all reduces to the exact day that you gather to break bread!

Sin is lawlessness, breaking the Sabbath is sin. No Christian in the eyes of the SDA can sin and get away with it.

They believe that they are the only true church, hence, all other churches are not true churches.

This is the reason why I believe that the SDA organization, is the enemy of all churches world wide.
 
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klutedavid

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CLEAN AND UNCLEAN FOODS

For me personally I believe the health laws that God has given us still apply because it is the Word of God and I can't find anywhere in God's Word that says these laws have changed. If God says something we should obey him. He has given us health laws for a reason. However I do not judge in relation to food and drink.


2 CORINTHIANS 6:16
16, And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? FOR YOU ARE THE TEMPLE OF GOD; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

19, What? KNOW YOU NOT THAT YOUR BODY IS THE TEMPLE OF THE HOLY GHOST which is in you, which ye have of God, and YOU ARE NOT YOUR OWN?

the health laws were given to God's people because we are the temple of God and he is the live in us.........

1 CORINTHIANS 3:16
16, KNOW YOU NOT THAT YOU ARE THE TEMPLE OF GOD, and that the SPIRIT OF GOD DWELLS IN YOU? 17, IF ANY MAN DEFILES THE TEMPLE OF GOD, HIM SHALL GOD DESTROY; FOR THE TEMPLE OF GOD IS HOLY, WHICH TEMPLE YOU ARE.

This includes sin from the heart (Matthew 15:18).

These are some of the dietary laws God has given his people.....

AFTER THE FLOOD (most animals dead)

GENESIS 9:3-4
3, Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you. I have given you all things, even as the green herbs. 4, BUT THE THE FLESH WITH THE LIFE THEREOF, WHICH IS IN THE BLOOD THEREOF YOU SHALL NOT EAT.

DEUTERONOMY 15:23 Only THOU SHALT NOT EAT THE BLOOD thereof; thou shalt pour it upon the ground as water.

LEVITICUS 19:26 YOU SHALL NOT EAT ANYTHING WITH THE BLOOD : neither shall ye use enchantment, nor observe times.

1 SAMUAL 14:34 And Saul said, Disperse yourselves among the people, and say unto them, Bring me hither every man his ox, and every man his sheep, and slay them here, and eat; and SIN NOT AGAINST THE LORD IN EATING WITH THE BLOOD. And all the people brought every man his ox with him that night, and slew them there.

most meats unless kosher have the blood in it...

..............

LEVITICUS 11:47 To MAKE A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE CLEAN AND THE UNCLEAN, and between the beast that may be eaten and the beast that may not be eaten.

CLEAN AND UNCLEAN (SANCTIFIED BY THE WORD OF GOD 1 TOMOTHY 4:4)

DEUTERONOMY 14:3-21
3, THOU SHALT NOT EAT ANY ABOMINABLE THING.
4, These are the beasts which ye shall eat: the ox, the sheep, and the goat,
5, The hart, and the roebuck, and the fallow deer, and the wild goat, and the pygarg, and the wild ox, and the chamois.
6, And every beast that parteth the hoof, and cleaveth the cleft into two claws, and cheweth the cud among the beasts, that ye shall eat.
7, Nevertheless these ye shall not eat of them that chew the cud, or of them that divide the cloven hoof; as the camel, and the hare, and the coney: for they chew the cud, but divide not the hoof; therefore they are unclean unto you.
8, And the swine, because it divideth the hoof, yet cheweth not the cud, it is unclean unto you: ye shall not eat of their flesh, nor touch their dead carcase.
9, These ye shall eat of all that are in the waters: all that have fins and scales shall ye eat:
10, And whatsoever hath not fins and scales ye may not eat; it is unclean unto you.
11, Of all clean birds ye shall eat.
12, But these are they of which ye shall not eat: the eagle, and the ossifrage, and the ospray,
13, And the glede, and the kite, and the vulture after his kind,
14, And every raven after his kind,
15, And the owl, and the night hawk, and the cuckow, and the hawk after his kind,
16, The little owl, and the great owl, and the swan,
17, And the pelican, and the gier eagle, and the cormorant,
18, And the stork, and the heron after her kind, and the lapwing, and the bat.
19, And every creeping thing that flieth is unclean unto you: they shall not be eaten.
20, But of all clean fowls ye may eat.
21, Ye shall not eat of any thing that dieth of itself: thou shalt give it unto the stranger that is in thy gates, that he may eat it; or thou mayest sell it unto an alien: for thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God. Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk.


ISAIAH 65:2; 4; 8

[2], I have spread out my hands all the day unto a rebellious people, which walked in a way that was not good, after their own thoughts; 3, A people that provoked me to anger continually to my face; that sacrifices in gardens, and burns incense upon altars of brick;

[4], Which remain among the graves, and lodge in the monuments, WHICH EATS SWINES FLESH, and BROTH OF ABOMINABLE THINGS ARE IN THEIR VESSELS; 5, Which say, Stand by thyself, come not near to me; for I am holier than thou. These are a smoke in my nose, a fire that burns all the day. 6, Behold, it is written before me: I will not keep silence, but will recompense, even recompense into their bosom, 7, Your iniquities, and the iniquities of your fathers together, saith the LORD, which have burned incense upon the mountains, and blasphemed me upon the hills: therefore will I measure their former work into their bosom.

[8], Thus saith the LORD, As the new wine is found in the cluster, and one saith, Destroy it not; for a blessing is in it: so will I do for my servants' sake, that I may not destroy them all.

ISAIAH 66:4-18
4, I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not. 5, Hear the word of the LORD, ye that tremble at his word; Your brethren that hated you, that cast you out for my name's sake, said, Let the LORD be glorified: but he shall appear to your joy, and they shall be ashamed. 6, A voice of noise from the city, a voice from the temple, a voice of the LORD that rendersrecompence to his enemies.7, Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child. 8, Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children. 9, Shall I bring to the birth, and not cause to bring forth? saith the LORD: shall I cause to bring forth, and shut the womb? saith thy God. 10, Rejoice ye with Jerusalem, and be glad with her, all ye that love her: rejoice for joy with her, all ye that mourn for her:11, That ye may suck, and be satisfied with the breasts of her consolations; that ye may milk out, and be delighted with the abundance of her glory. 12, For thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will extend peace to her like a river, and the glory of the Gentiles like a flowing stream: then shall ye suck, ye shall be borne upon her sides, and be dandled upon her knees.13, As one whom his mother comforts, so will I comfort you; and ye shall be comforted in Jerusalem. 14, And when ye see this, your heart shall rejoice, and your bones shall flourish like an herb: and the hand of the LORD shall be known toward his servants, and his indignation toward his enemies. 15, For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire. 16, For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many. 17, They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, EATING SWINES FLESH, and THE ABOMINATION, AND THE MOUSE, SHALL BE CONSUMED TOGETHER, SAYS THE LORD. 18, For I know their works and their thoughts: it shall come, that I will gather all nations and tongues; and they shall come, and see my glory....

22, For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain. 23, And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD. 24, And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcasses of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.


EZEKIEL 22:26
Her priests have violated my law, and have profaned mine holy things: they have put no difference between the holy and profane, NEITHER HAVE THEY MADE A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE CLEAN AND THE UNCLEAN <see Leviticus 11:47>, and have hid their eyes from my SABBATHS, and I am profaned among them.


Some believe that Peter's vision means we can ignore the dietary laws that were given by God...

ACTS 10:1-17
1, There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band, 2, A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God always. 3, He saw in a vision evidently about the ninth hour of the day an angel of God coming in to him, and saying unto him, Cornelius. 4, And when he looked on him, he was afraid, and said, What is it, Lord? And he said unto him, Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God. 5, And now send men to Joppa, and call for one Simon, whose surname is Peter: 6, He lodges with one Simon a tanner, whose house is by the sea side: he shall tell thee what you should do. 7, And when the angel which spake unto Cornelius was departed, he called two of his household servants, and a devout soldier of them that waited on him continually; 8, And when he had declared all these things unto them, he sent them to Joppa.................


9, On the morrow, as they went on their journey, and drew nigh unto the city, Peter went up upon the housetop to pray about the sixth hour:
10, And he became very hungry, and would have eaten: but while they made ready, he fell into a trance,
11, And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth:
12, Wherein were all manner of four footed beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.
13, And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.
14, But Peter said, NOT SO LORD FOR I HAVE NEVER EATEN ANYTHING THAT IS UNCLEAN AND COMMON.
15, And the voice spake unto him again the second time, WHAT GOD HAS CLEANSED, THAT DO NOT CALL COMMON.
16, This was done thrice: and the vessel was received up again into heaven.
17, Now while Peter doubted in himself what this vision which he had seen should mean, behold, the men which were sent from Cornelius had made inquiry for Simon's house, and stood before the gate,

Now the question here to consider is what was it that God had cleansed and we should not call common, this is what Peter was thinking about. While Peter was thinking about what was the meaning of the vision The praying gentile that believed God was at his gate asking for Peter...

18, And called, and asked whether Simon, which was surnamed Peter, were lodged there.
19, While Peter thought on the vision, the Spirit said unto him, Behold, three men seek thee.
20, Arise therefore, and get thee down, and go with them, doubting nothing: for I have sent them.

What was it that God was teaching Peter.....

27, And as he talked with him, he went in, and found many that were come together.

28, And he said unto them, YOU KNOW THAT IT IS AN UNLAWFUL THING FOR A MAN THAT IS A JEW TO KEEP COMPANY, OR COME UNTO ONE OF ANOTHER NATION; BUT GOD HAS SHOWN ME THAT I SHOULD NOT CALL ANY MAN COMMON OR UNCLEAN

So the vision was not about saying that all foods are clean but that now all man are clean and that the Believers can preach the Gospel to the Gentiles...

…………

1 Timothy 4:4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing is to be refused if it is received with thanksgiving; 5 for it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

This is a reference of food that can be eaten that is sanctified by the word of God. This is a reference back to what foods God says are clean and unclean not a reference saying you can eat anything.

The Old Covenant and the New Covenant has always been about salvation and we are saved in the same way that God's people have always been saved and that is by faith in believing and following God's Word. (Hebrews 11)

Just some thoughts from God's WORD.
Are you saying we can't eat a steak?
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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CLEAN AND UNCLEAN FOODS
For me personally I believe the health laws that God has given us still apply because it is the Word of God and I can't find anywhere in God's Word that says these laws have changed. If God says something we should obey him. He has given us health laws for a reason. However I do not judge in relation to food and drink.
That is good to hear.

Study the NC/New Jerusalem book of Revelation and the OC/Jerusalem will become clear........Isn't that what you said>
SDA

LoveGodsWord said:
If you do not know what the OLD COVENANT is how can you understand what the NEW COVENANT is? In the days of Jesus and the Apostles the OLD TESTAMENT scriptures were the bible. Everything that we have in the NEW TESTAMENT comes from the OLD. If you have lost your key how can you open a locked door
Colossians 2:
13 And you being dead in the trespasses and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, 14 having blotted out<1813> the handwriting in the decrees against us, which was adverse to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

16 Therefore let no one judge you in regard to food, or in regard to drink, or in regard to a feast, or a New Moon, or Sabbaths,
17 which are a shadow of the things coming. But the body is of Christ.

18 Let no one disqualify you, delighting in humility and the worship of the angels, detailing what he has seen, being puffed up vainly by his mind of the flesh
,

Revelation 21:4
And God shall be rubbing out/blotting-out<1813>, every tear from their eyes and the death shall not be any-more.
Nor sorrow, nor crying, nor distress, not it shall be still, that the first-things pass away<565>
 
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1stcenturylady

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None of those scriptures say anything about swine being lawful to eat - not in the past, present or future.

Do you have any other scriptures that teach swine being lawful to eat, or that it was ever lawful to eat?

ROFL Can pigs move? As in "everything that moves." Does scripture need to list every animal, insect and bird? The only restriction written was to not consume the blood.

But if you want to obey commands that were before the gospel was allowed for Gentiles, that's fine. But, in a debate you better have scriptural backup. Show me where man could not eat unclean meat before Moses.
 
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stephen pollard

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What you said is true.

SDA believe that not honoring the Sabbath is a sin. Further on this Sabbath sin, those who go to church on the first day, in the end times are given the mark of the beast. The mark of the beast is actually first day worship.

So logically, any Christian going to church on the first day has the future, mark of the beast.

Grace then becomes of no effect to any Christian, because in the end, it all reduces to the exact day that you gather to break bread!

Sin is lawlessness, breaking the Sabbath is sin. No Christian in the eyes of the SDA can sin and get away with it.

They believe that they are the only true church, hence, all other churches are not true churches.

This is the reason why I believe that the SDA organization, is the enemy of all churches world wide.
This goes very deep for me. I grew up in a church where I believed I virtually must perform perfect or be threatened with the fires of hell. The people acted very Godly on a Sunday, dressed in their finest clothes(the women had fancy hats) And after the service I received a handshake, a Godly smile, and a relevant scripture verse if it was considered necessary. I actually grew up believing the stalwarts of the church must all be sinless, and to be blunt, I thought the married couples would only have sex in order to have children, and they would spend as little time doing it as possible. I honestly wondered what I was doing at the church./ I was far from perfect on the inside. I assumed they had reached perfection on the inside at well as the outside, it never crossed my(naïve) mind an act could be being put on. I could act holy on the outside, but what good was that? If you had to perform perfect, that includes the inside as well.
I got crushed badly and walked away from the church for a while. It was a fundamentalist church who proudly stated they stood full square on the bible and you must preach all of it.
It was only years later, when I finally read the NT for myself, I found out the core of Paul's message had never been preached.
So when people preach the letter to you, and demand you fully obey it if you want to attain heaven, I think of all the poor souls, who may be as naïve as I once was and believe these people actually practice what they preach. Assuredly they do not, it is just an act. I witnessed it for years.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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If it is sin for Gentiles to eat the Levitical unclean foods, the council of Jerusalem gave gentiles a licence to sin(Acts ch15)
Since SDAs continue to post Sabbath threads all over CF, I am going to start a thread on this "controversial" topic here on the CCT board and make it a poll thread........
let's flood the CCT board with Sabbath and food threads.

Sabbath and The Law


Anathema to Sabbath-keepers - Council of Laodicea
Canon 29 of the Council of Laodicea (ca. A.D. 360) explicitly condemns the veneration of the Sabbath and enjoins working on such a day in order to show a special respect for Sunday:
Source: CHURCH FATHERS: Synod of Laodicea (4th Century)

Which churches believe this today?
Roman Catholic?
Eastern Orthodox?
Any others?

What does anathema mean in this canon?
 
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mmksparbud

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Well when Jesus walked this earth, the old covenant was still in operation of course. And it would be only natural for most to still keep saturday as their sabbath day once the new covenant begun for that is what they had always known, but Paul states:

One man considers one day more sacred/holy than another, another man considers every day alike, each one should be fully convinced in his own mind Rom14:5

BTW
There is nothing wrong with you, if you choose to observing a Saturday sabbath. The problem comes by insisting everyone else must do the same


He was referencing the Jewish feast--that no longer needed to be kept. As is this verse
Col_2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

sabbath days--all Jewish fests were called sabbaths. It doesn't read The Sabbath

As I said--the problem lies when an individual is convicted of a truth, but refuses to follow. God alone knows that.
 
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stephen pollard

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He was referencing the Jewish feast--that no longer needed to be kept. As is this verse
Col_2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

sabbath days--all Jewish fests were called sabbaths. It doesn't read The Sabbath

As I said--the problem lies when an individual is convicted of a truth, but refuses to follow. God alone knows that.
As I told you, for the believer it is no longer a law written in ink, or on tablets of stone, but tablets of human hearts. Your consciousness of sin comes from reading what is written in ink, not from within
And there is nothing about Jewish feasts in that verse, or the verses surrounding it
 
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ToBeLoved

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He was referencing the Jewish feast--that no longer needed to be kept. As is this verse
Col_2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

sabbath days--all Jewish fests were called sabbaths. It doesn't read The Sabbath

As I said--the problem lies when an individual is convicted of a truth, but refuses to follow. God alone knows that.
Can you address Rom 14:5 because it wasn’t written in Hebrew
 
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mmksparbud

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WOW! You passed right over our New Covenant commandments! Did you think no one would notice? Very telling, indeed!

When the apostle John uses the word "commandment" he is not referring to the Ten Commandments out of the Old Covenant, but tells us here what commandments we are to follow that Jesus preached. This goes for all his writings, including Revelation.

1 John 3:23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment.

John 15:10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.

Two sets of commandments. Jesus lived under the law, to fulfill it and bring us to a New Covenant based on belief in Him. Jesus didn't rise on Saturday, but on Sunday. Why? Not because he was resting as Adventists believe, but to show He represents eternal life - the 8th day.

WOW!! You skipped right over the meaning of everything! You think no one would notice?

of course, referencing this:

Mat 22:36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

The 10 hang on these 2---the first 4 deal with our duty to God, the last 6 deal with our duty to man.
 
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mmksparbud

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Agreed. Perfect example of Sola Tradition usurping Sola Scriptura.
People like to think the fervor of their good intentions purifies their willful indulgence of convenient error.
You've been around for quite awhile, haven't you? How's Bob Ryan, You seen him here lately?

Many years.
Not lately.
 
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mmksparbud

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Can you address Rom 14:5 because it wasn’t written in Hebrew


I know--but the writer was and it is the same thing---to toss out everything else--and replace it with one single verse to justify an inconvenience---just doesn't hold up.
 
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stephen pollard

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I know--but the writer was and it is the same thing---to toss out everything else--and replace it with one single verse to justify an inconvenience---just doesn't hold up.
At least I have a verse, you have none from the new testament/covenant
 
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I know--but the writer was and it is the same thing---to toss out everything else--and replace it with one single verse to justify an inconvenience---just doesn't hold up.
Because Paul was a Hebrew is all the more reason, as a former Pharisee, He would have been specific. Paul knee how to write well and was educated in Greek
 
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