The problem with legalism

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fhansen

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It has an affect with the relationship. It just doesn’t have an affect with our standing. The regenerate are children of God. Period.
Of course they could always lose the life given them by turning back away from God again, just as Adam forfeited his life to begin with.

Sin opposes God and separates us from Him by its nature. He will not condemn anyone who has a change of heart, and turns to Him, or back to Him if fallen away. Otherwise we only condemn ourselves anyway.

In the end, none but God know with 100% certainty who are numbered among the elect, who will persevere, whose names are written in the Book of Life and whose are not.
 
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GodsGrace101

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It has an affect with the relationship. It just doesn’t have an affect with our standing. The regenerate are children of God. Period.
I believe you're saying that relationship is different from standing.
This would get into OSAS or eternal security.
I'll just say that our relationship is our standing, but you certainly won't agree because of that statement...
 
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I believe you're saying that relationship is different from standing.
This would get into OSAS or eternal security.
I'll just say that our relationship is our standing, but you certainly won't agree because of that statement...
I have kids, so I know the difference.
 
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Hazelelponi

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We need God's revelation in order to be able to understand Him. OK

God changing our heart to let us love Him sounds a little Calvinistic to me. I decided to respond to God's revelation.
Once we get to know God, our heart does definitely change. If we want to say it's a work of the Holy Spirit, I can agree. If we say that God changed it,,,I'm not sure I can agree.

I DO see myself as doing the work and I believe this is scripturally correct.

In Leviticus 22 God says that He sanctifies us. Much study has been done regarding this and basically bible scholars and theologians have separated Justification and Sanctification.

Sanctification is US being set apart for work for the Kingdom of God, which is, after all, what Jesus preached. This work is a combined effort between the Holy Spirit who advises us what we should do, and OUR response in doing it. We're not puppets,,,we do have free will to ignore the Holy Spirit and do our will and not His will.

I see no problem in saying that WE do works,,,this is what we're instructed in the N.T.

Galatians 6:9-10
9Let us not lose heart in doing good, for in due time we will reap if we do not grow weary.
10So then, while we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, and especially to those who are of the household of the faith.


Colossians 3:17
17Whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks through Him to God the Father.

Hebrews 10:24
24and let us consider how to stimulate one another to love and good deeds,

Titus 2:7
7in all things show yourself to be an example of good deeds, with purity in doctrine, dignified,

Just to be clear, I am Calvinist in my understanding of God.. I believe in TULIP..

Answer the question of why Jesus spoke in parables and you'll understand me more..

But I daresay that Calvinism is really really far off the topic of this thread, and since there is an entire forum for that I think we can forgo that particular aspect of discussion.

I'll talk more about sanctification later, for now I have to go..
 
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GodsGrace101

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Just to be clear, I am Calvinist in my understanding of God.. I believe in TULIP..

Answer the question of why Jesus spoke in parables and you'll understand me more..

But I daresay that Calvinism is really really far off the topic of this thread, and since there is an entire forum for that I think we can forgo that particular aspect of discussion.

I'll talk more about sanctification later, for now I have to go..
Why Jesus spoke in parables:

1. He was speaking to simple agricultural people and shepherds. They could relate better to what He wanted them to know.

2. To make a point, we many times use analogies.

3. Jesus wanted to leave His teaching "open" so that a person could add what he wanted to Jesus' teaching; so that he could understand it in his own terms and be able to accept it better.

4. Jesus wanted some persons to make an effort to understand what He was teaching. If there was no effort, there was no interest. The person had to be willing: He who has ears to hear, let him hear,,,etc.

Will be interested in what you have to say.
Later...
 
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Hammster

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Why Jesus spoke in parables:

1. He was speaking to simple agricultural people and shepherds. They could relate better to what He wanted them to know.

2. To make a point, we many times use analogies.

3. Jesus wanted to leave His teaching "open" so that a person could add what he wanted to Jesus' teaching; so that he could understand it in his own terms and be able to accept it better.

4. Jesus wanted some persons to make an effort to understand what He was teaching. If there was no effort, there was no interest. He had to be willing: He who has ears to hear, let him hear,,,etc.

Will be interested in what you have to say.
Later...
Jesus gave us the answer.

10 Then the disciples came and said to him, "Why do you speak to them in parables?"
11 And he answered them, "To you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given.
12 For to the one who has, more will be given, and he will have an abundance, but from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away.
13 This is why I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand.
14 Indeed, in their case the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled that says: "'"You will indeed hear but never understand, and you will indeed see but never perceive."
15 For this people's heart has grown dull, and with their ears they can barely hear, and their eyes they have closed, lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears and understand with their heart and turn, and I would heal them.'
16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see, and your ears, for they hear.
17 For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it. - Matthew 13:10-17
 
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GodsGrace101

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I have kids, so I know the difference.
Yeah,
But you're not God!!

I have kids too,,,so that means nothing to this discussion.
They're still my children even if I can't stand one of them.

BUT that one is not getting ANY inheritance from me!

We could discuss the Prodigal Son if you wish.
But later...
 
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GodsGrace101

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Jesus gave us the answer.

10 Then the disciples came and said to him, "Why do you speak to them in parables?"
11 And he answered them, "To you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given.
12 For to the one who has, more will be given, and he will have an abundance, but from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away.
13 This is why I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand.
14 Indeed, in their case the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled that says: "'"You will indeed hear but never understand, and you will indeed see but never perceive."
15 For this people's heart has grown dull, and with their ears they can barely hear, and their eyes they have closed, lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears and understand with their heart and turn, and I would heal them.'
16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see, and your ears, for they hear.
17 For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it. - Matthew 13:10-17
The above would be my number 4.
 
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Wordkeeper

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Obedience isn’t legalism. Obedience with the thought that it somehow affects your standing with God is legalism. That’s slavery. That’s not freedom.
There was a robbery at a jeweller's store. The robber was not stopped by the sales clerk, because he was afraid of losing his life. He waited for security to show up.

The son of the proprietor tackled the robber and stopped the robbery.

Now you know the difference between loyalty and service. Faith and work.

John 10:12The hired hand is not the shepherd and does not own the sheep. So when he sees the wolf coming, he abandons the sheep and runs away.
 
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fhansen

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Jesus gave us the answer.

10 Then the disciples came and said to him, "Why do you speak to them in parables?"
11 And he answered them, "To you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given.
12 For to the one who has, more will be given, and he will have an abundance, but from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away.
13 This is why I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand.
14 Indeed, in their case the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled that says: "'"You will indeed hear but never understand, and you will indeed see but never perceive."
15 For this people's heart has grown dull, and with their ears they can barely hear, and their eyes they have closed, lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears and understand with their heart and turn, and I would heal them.'
16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see, and your ears, for they hear.
17 For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it. - Matthew 13:10-17
Yes, and anyone can claim esoteric gnosis based on that passage.
 
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Yeah,
But you're not God!!

I have kids too,,,so that means nothing to this discussion.
They're still my children even if I can't stand one of them.

BUT that one is not getting ANY inheritance from me!

We could discuss the Prodigal Son if you wish.
But later...
So God loves unconditionally and you don’t.

Not much of an argument.
 
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Hammster

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There was a robbery at a jeweller's store. The robber was not stopped by the sales clerk, because he was afraid of losing his life. He waited for security to show up.

The son of the proprietor tackled the robber and stopped the robbery.

Now you know the difference between loyalty and service. Faith and work.

John 10:12The hired hand is not the shepherd and does not own the sheep. So when he sees the wolf coming, he abandons the sheep and runs away.
Mkay
 
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OK
You're calling it Progressive Justification.
Some churches use this phrase.

Whatever you want to call it, you DO describe it correctly.
Sometimes I wish we all used the same language...

Yes, I agree. Thank you for clarifying. I forgot the term. ;)

*Big hug to you in the Lord*

It is my prayer that folks see here what we are trying to show them with God's Word.

Blessings to you in the Lord this fine day.
 
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I still notice that your completely ignoring the fact that overcoming sin, our power over sin, is GOD's work in our lives..

We have to stop trying and simply rest in God's Spirit in order to overcome sin, because when we try, when we do the work apart from God we can't do it, we fail. Overcoming sin through the power of God is something active, an action, but it's His action.

Overcoming sin isn't us doing, its us giving our lives, our sin, over to God, and resting in His finished work, His victory over sin for power over our own sin. That is how newly believing addicts change their lives when they are saved, that is how sin and the things of this world are overcome...it's not by stopping doing so much as it's by handing over... it's not our work its His.

It's a very difficult concept to understand apart from the experience of it, but it's necessary to learn or your own walk will be wrought with failure after failure.

Now, that I have addressed the issue of whether or not God is the one who does the good work within the believer, you need to explain to me the following verses in how they work with your particular belief.

We need to endure in our faith to continue to be saved:

"But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;" Hebrews 3:13-14.

"Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him." James 1:12.

"But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. Matthew 24:13.

"...be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life." Revelation 2:10.

"He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God." Revelation 2:7.

"He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death." Revelation 2:11.

• "He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels." Revelation 3:5.

"Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life." Jude 1:21.

Obeying God or Being Righteous is a part of eternal life:

• "Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city." Revelation 22:14.

he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;" Hebrews 5:9.

"And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live." Luke 10:25-28.

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." Matthew 7:21.

"Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God." Matthew 5:8.

Every man will be given according to what their work shall be:

"And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be." Revelation 22:12.

Sin or Unfaithfulness Can Separate:

"And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God." Luke 9:62.

"For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins." Hebrews 10:26.

"For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?" 1 Peter 4:17, 18.

"For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire. 2 Peter 2:21,22.

"And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book." Revelation 22:19.

"Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die." Ezekiel 18:4.


Source used:
Once Saved Always Saved - Fact or Fiction?
 
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I know you’ve been shown how your understand of James is woefully incorrect. So I don’t need to go into here.

You need to repent of your legalism.

More than happy to repent (seek the Lord's forgiveness) if a brother shows me the error of my way with Scripture. So convince me with Scripture that your position is actually true.

Please give me a word for word commentary on the following two list of verses found within the subsequent spoiler buttons.

We need to endure in our faith to continue to be saved:

"But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;" Hebrews 3:13,14.

"Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him." James 1:12.

"But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. Matthew 24:13.

"...be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life." Revelation 2:10.

"He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God." Revelation 2:7.

"He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death." Revelation 2:11.

• "He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels." Revelation 3:5.

"Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life." Jude 1:21.

Obeying God or Being Righteous is a part of eternal life:

• "Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city." Revelation 22:14.

he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;" Hebrews 5:9.

"And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live." Luke 10:25-28.

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." Matthew 7:21.

"Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God." Matthew 5:8.

Every man will be given according to what their work shall be:

"And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be." Revelation 22:12.

Sin or Unfaithfulness Can Separate:

"And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God." Luke 9:62.

"For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins." Hebrews 10:26.

"For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?" 1 Peter 4:17, 18.

"For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire. 2 Peter 2:21,22.

"And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book." Revelation 22:19.

"Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die." Ezekiel 18:4.


Source used:
Once Saved Always Saved - Fact or Fiction?

After we are saved by God's grace,
God’s works (done through us) are also required as a part of the Salvation Process:



(Here are a List of Verses):


“Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." (James 2:24).

"Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.” (James 2:17-18).

"They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate." (Titus 1:16).

"If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing, "(1 Timothy 6:3-4).

"...God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble." (James 4:6).

"What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? (Romans 6:1-2).

"And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him." (Hebrews 5:9).

"Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord" (Hebrews 12:14).

“...God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth” (2 Thessalonians 2:13).

“For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.” (Romans 8:13).

"If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha." (1 Corinthians 16:22).

"If ye love me, keep my commandments." (John 14:15).

“If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.” (John 15:10).

"And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me." (Matthew 10:38).

”If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? (Matthew 16:24-26).

"...No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God." (Luke 9:62).

“Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.” (Matthew 5:8).

"Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls." (James 1:21).

"But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: For there is no respect of persons with God." (Romans 2:8-11).

”And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.” (Revelation 22:12-15).

"For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved." (John 3:20).

“For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.” (Romans 11:21-22).

"...but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments." (Matthew 19:17).

“Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.” (Philippians 2:12).

“...And having become servants of God, ye have your fruit unto holiness and the end, everlasting life.” (Romans 6:22).

”Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.” (Matthew 25:34-40).

“Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.” (Matthew 25:41-46).

”His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.” (Matthew 25:21).

”And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” (Matthew 25:30).

”Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end; While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation [i.e. as the people of Israel did when they rebelled against him in the desert.”] (Hebrews 3:12-15) (Note: The explanation on verse 15 in brackets is taken from the Living Bible Translation (TLB)).

”Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways. So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)” (Hebrews 3:10-11).

”Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief. (Hebrews 4:11).

“In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.” (1 John 3:10).

“He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God” (John 8:47).

Side Note:

For starters, just take the first 5 verses from each list;
And make sure you provide other Scripture verses to back up what that verse is saying.

Anyways, may the Lord bless you this fine day;
And may you please be well.
 
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Hammster

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More than happy to repent (seek the Lord's forgiveness) if a brother shows me the error of my way with Scripture. So convince me with Scripture that your position is actually true.

Please give me a word for word commentary on the following two list of verses found within the subsequent spoiler buttons.

We need to endure in our faith to continue to be saved:

"But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;" Hebrews 3:13,14.

"Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him." James 1:12.

"But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. Matthew 24:13.

"...be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life." Revelation 2:10.

"He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God." Revelation 2:7.

"He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death." Revelation 2:11.

• "He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels." Revelation 3:5.

"Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life." Jude 1:21.

Obeying God or Being Righteous is a part of eternal life:

• "Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city." Revelation 22:14.

he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;" Hebrews 5:9.

"And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live." Luke 10:25-28.

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." Matthew 7:21.

"Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God." Matthew 5:8.

Every man will be given according to what their work shall be:

"And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be." Revelation 22:12.

Sin or Unfaithfulness Can Separate:

"And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God." Luke 9:62.

"For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins." Hebrews 10:26.

"For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?" 1 Peter 4:17, 18.

"For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire. 2 Peter 2:21,22.

"And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book." Revelation 22:19.

"Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die." Ezekiel 18:4.


Source used:
Once Saved Always Saved - Fact or Fiction?

And this list of verses:

After we are saved by God's grace,
God’s works (done through us) are also required as a part of the Salvation Process:



(Here are a List of Verses):


“Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." (James 2:24).

"Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.” (James 2:17-18).

"They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate." (Titus 1:16).

"If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing, "(1 Timothy 6:3-4).

"...God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble." (James 4:6).

"What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? (Romans 6:1-2).

"And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him." (Hebrews 5:9).

"Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord" (Hebrews 12:14).

“...God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth” (2 Thessalonians 2:13).

“For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.” (Romans 8:13).

"If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha." (1 Corinthians 16:22).

"If ye love me, keep my commandments." (John 14:15).

“If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.” (John 15:10).

"And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me." (Matthew 10:38).

”If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? (Matthew 16:24-26).

"...No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God." (Luke 9:62).

“Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.” (Matthew 5:8).

"Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls." (James 1:21).

"But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: For there is no respect of persons with God." (Romans 2:8-11).

”And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.” (Revelation 22:12-15).

"For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved." (John 3:20).

“For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.” (Romans 11:21-22).

"...but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments." (Matthew 19:17).

“Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.” (Philippians 2:12).

“...And having become servants of God, ye have your fruit unto holiness and the end, everlasting life.” (Romans 6:22).

”Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.” (Matthew 25:34-40).

“Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.” (Matthew 25:41-46).

”His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.” (Matthew 25:21).

”And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” (Matthew 25:30).

”Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end; While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation [i.e. as the people of Israel did when they rebelled against him in the desert.”] (Hebrews 3:12-15) (Note: The explanation on verse 15 in brackets is taken from the Living Bible Translation (TLB)).

”Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways. So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)” (Hebrews 3:10-11).

”Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief. (Hebrews 4:11).

“In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.” (1 John 3:10).

“He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God” (John 8:47).

May the Lord bless you this fine day.
I don’t do carpet bombs. It’s a sure sign that you’ve lost the argument.

Now, if you have a specific passage, that’s fine. But my history with you is that no matter what passage I post and explain, you just come back with “what about this verse?”, and we get nowhere. So I’m not wasting my time.
 
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Hazelelponi

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Why Jesus spoke in parables:

1. He was speaking to simple agricultural people and shepherds. They could relate better to what He wanted them to know.

2. To make a point, we many times use analogies.

3. Jesus wanted to leave His teaching "open" so that a person could add what he wanted to Jesus' teaching; so that he could understand it in his own terms and be able to accept it better.

4. Jesus wanted some persons to make an effort to understand what He was teaching. If there was no effort, there was no interest. The person had to be willing: He who has ears to hear, let him hear,,,etc.

Will be interested in what you have to say.
Later...

It seems this thread went right back to the claim of salvation by works, so I'll just say this and then leave the thread..

What Jesus said for the reason of parables was this:

"That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them."

The parables have the purpose not only of sharing the mysteries of God, but also of separating the sheep from the goats.

Jeremiah 24:7

" "I will give them a heart to know Me, for I am the LORD; and they will be My people, and I will be their God, for they will return to Me with their whole heart." "

Ezekiel 36:26

"Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh."

These things are for today, under the New Covenant.

The most clear picture of this change of heart from God are conversions such as Paul's.. "I was blind, but now I see." Conversions such as mine. But just because these make it more obvious doesn't mean God doesnt change all of us..

While it's our choice to follow Jesus when He calls us out of the world, out of love, it's because He first loved us; not because we had the right mindset or intellect to "get it" when others seemingly can't.

God sanctifies us, from the inside out. It only seems to us, to our limited minds, to be our own work or our own righteousness that got the ball rolling so to speak.

Yes, we chose to follow Him. Yes, He gave us the ability in some indescribable way, He changed us.. our entire life led to the moment of our salvation, indeed, that is the entire purpose. From there, we follow Him.. not by our own ability, but by His finished work.
 
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Emli

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The Pharisees were legalists, and I believe that everyone here will agree to that. But they were also extremely disobedient to God, though they were following the Law, which is why Jesus said that their father was the devil. Not because they obeyed the Law, but because they were using the Law (and their religious authority) to put burdens on people instead of setting them free, (Isaiah 58 is a great chapter that explains their mindset and what God thought of their actions), and because they were living for their own pride and self-righteousness and not the Glory of God. They did not understand who God is, and they did not understand what mercy means or how love does no harm to a neighbour.

Then comes Jesus and tells everyone that in order to come to Heaven, we would have to actually obey God's commandments, by walking according to Truth (faithfulness to God) and in love, and the Pharisees wanted to kill Him and eventually did. We obey God's commandments by walking in Love, loving God first, then loving our neighbours as well as our enemies through Him and in Him, by the Holy Spirit. Jesus preached obedience to God, but obedience to God's merciful and loving nature rather than obedience to the Law. That is why we must be conformed to the image of God, which is Christ. That is entirely the work of the Holy Spirit in us, but we get there by doing what Jesus did when He was a man. That is how we are sanctified and transformed, by doing what Scripture tells us, worshipping God in Spirit and in Truth. And that is obedience to Christ. We follow His teachings, and He did not come to abolish the Law, but to fulfill the Law, by revealing to us what God wants from us. Which is that we live righteous, holy, loving lives in Him.

We are not saved by our own actions, but we are also not saved by not acting at all. Too many Christians believe that all we need to do is pray and let God be God, but do no works. But how can we become like Jesus unless we let Him lead us to do the things He was doing and has commanded us to do? We are supposed to glorify God in our bodies and be His light to the world. We cannot expect God to do all the work, because He wants us to be His servants and be faithful to His nature, to the new nature that He has given us. If we think that we can refuse to live and love like Jesus did and do the works that He did, in Him, and still be saved, we are deceived. Because we would not be living by God's will or for His Glory.

"Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven." Matthew 5:16

This is not legalism.
 
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