SDA

mmksparbud said:

Yes---that is why we are saved by grace. And when we stumble--we get right back up.
Rom 5:20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
Rom 5:21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
Rom_8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

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It is good you admit to committing sin. When I have repeatedly asked the main sda contributor to cf if he commits sin, he responds by saying Christians commit ''unknown sin'' it is good you do not view it that way. The law will always condemn you, for the only pass mark to be righteous before God under it is 100% perfect obedience of it. Therefore what Paul wrote in 2Cor3:6 is correct. The letter of the Ten Commandments kills. That letter does not state: You may have a couple of impure thoughts a month, that is excusable etc, it states: Thou shalt not(not) covet. Same goes for the other commandments too

However, it still remains true, that tell a sincere convert they must obey the Ten Commandments, with the inference heaven hinges on it, and they will live their life, in reality under a righteousness of trying to obey that law.
However, back to the original point. The law is within the believer, it is written in their mind and placed on their heart. It is not for them, a law written in ink(or stone)

Danthemailman said:

Brother Anderson was a member of the SDA Church for 33 years and was taught the SDA Church was the "remnant church" and was the one church entrusted with the "truth" for the last days. To his utter astonishment and amazement, when he began studying the Bible instead of Ellen White's books, he made the shocking discovery that SDA truth is different from Biblical truth. He found that some SDA teachings are not based upon Scripture at all but upon tradition, conjecture of the early pioneers, and statements made by the prophetess Ellen White.

Bible Truth Versus Adventist Truth - Dangers of Seventh-day Adventism
Bible Truth Versus Adventist Truth - Mark of the Beast
Bible Truth Versus Adventist Truth - Ellen White

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I read those before---balderdash!!! The sabbath is not based on conjecture, tradition, or EGW--it is biblical--so is the state of the dead, going to hell or heaven directly after death, so is the doctrine of hell itself, there is a hell, but it is not everlasting, it is all from the bible alone. The only thing that is different is the health message. And even there, it has been proven by non-Adventist research that those that follow the diet the closest, love the longest and live healthier lives. I was married to a nonSDA--I was not vegetarian--I had colon cancer almost 2 years ago and ended up in a coma for 2 moths. I doubt I would have gotten it if I had stayed vegetarian--it just simply doesn't run in the family---except for the meat eaters!
And yes--the mark of the beast is true. and we are not the only ones that know it. so did the reformers and Martin Luther and it was a catholic Priest that first said it.

Greetings Natsumi Lam,

Natsumi Lam said:

What is SDA?
What is their doctrine?
Is it different than non-denom beliefs?

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What I find unusual or difficult concerning the SDA teachings, is that they believe that when Jesus returns the earth will be burnt for the 1000 years and be without inhabitant. This seems to go against most of the OT prophecies that speak of Jesus sitting upon the Throne of David in Jerusalem ruling over the Nation of Israel and the nations Isaiah 2:1-4, Daniel 2:35, 44, Micah 4:1-8, Zechariah 14. Peter preached in Acts 3:19-21 that the return of Jesus will bring Times of Refreshing and Times of Restoration, not times of destruction and total burning. Yes, there will be some judgements at the return of Jesus, and the figure of burning is give, but the net, overall effect will be Times of Refreshing. Jesus is coming to bless the earth and its inhabitants, not to totally destroy.

Kind regards Trevor

,

stephen pollard said:

It is good you admit to committing sin. When I have repeatedly asked the main sda contributor to cf if he commits sin, he responds by saying Christians commit ''unknown sin'' it is good you do not view it that way. The law will always condemn you, for the only pass mark to be righteous before God under it is 100% perfect obedience of it. Therefore what Paul wrote in 2Cor3:6 is correct. The letter of the Ten Commandments kills. That letter does not state: You may have a couple of impure thoughts a month, that is excusable etc, it states: Thou shalt not(not) covet. Same goes for the other commandments too

However, it still remains true, that tell a sincere convert they must obey the Ten Commandments, with the inference heaven hinges on it, and they will live their life, in reality under a righteousness of trying to obey that law.
However, back to the original point. The law is within the believer, it is written in their mind and placed on their heart. It is not for them, a law written in ink(or stone)

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Doesn't matter where it is written--they are still to be kept. You can not enter into heaven an unrepentant murderer, adulterer, liar etc. Are you of the believe you can break any of those, be unrepentant, and enter heaven?

mmksparbud said:

, be unre;etant

Doesn't matter where it is written--they are still to be kept. You can not enter into heaven an unrepentant murderer, adulterer, liar etc. Are you of the believe you can break any of those, be unrepentant, and enter heaven?

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There is more than one type of Christianity it seems. However, this is the core foundation upon which the New Covenant stands:

This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds.’b]'>[b]

17 Then he adds:

‘Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more.
Heb10:16&17

What does it mean to have the law written in your mind and placed on your heart? For you cannot hide from law placed in your most inward parts. It means that in your mind you know how God wants you to live and in your heart you want to live that way. So it matters much where it is written. The Israelites had the written law, but that did not mean in their hearts they wanted to obey it did it. I can only speak for myself. When I responded to an altar call at a young age, my life was forever changed. Gone was the ability to live as I would naturally want to live without a care in the world. Those days could never return. Gone was the opportunity to break God's laws and have no conscience when I did so. Have I broken God's laws as a Christian? Of course, the same as everyone else does for none are perfect. However, as the law is in my heart, if I wilfully transgress it my conscience is seered, and I have no rest, and no peace until I come before my Father in Heaven and tell him I am sorry for my folly, then I get my peace back.
Maybe others did not have that kind of conversion. So continuing in unrepentant sin is not something I can contemplate for my own life, for when I was born again, such a thing could not be a possibility

TrevorL said:

Greetings Natsumi Lam,
What I find unusual or difficult concerning the SDA teachings, is that they believe that when Jesus returns the earth will be burnt for the 1000 years and be without inhabitant. This seems to go against most of the OT prophecies that speak of Jesus sitting upon the Throne of David in Jerusalem ruling over the Nation of Israel and the nations Isaiah 2:1-4, Daniel 2:35, 44, Micah 4:1-8, Zechariah 14. Peter preached in Acts 3:19-21 that the return of Jesus will bring Times of Refreshing and Times of Restoration, not times of destruction and total burning. Yes, there will be some judgements at the return of Jesus, and the figure of burning is give, but the net, overall effect will be Times of Refreshing. Jesus is coming to bless the earth and its inhabitants, not to totally destroy.

Kind regards Trevor

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That I will, have to disagree with--

2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
2Pe 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
2Pe 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2Th 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.


When Jesus returns it is very plain that the earth wikk be burned up--the saved dead are resurrected, the saved living will ascend into the clouds with them to be with the Lord--the wicked dead remain dead, the wicked living are all destroyed with the brightness of His coming--who is left? The wicked remain dead until after the 1000 years.

The earth is made new after death and hell are cast into the lake of fire.
ev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

Jesus will reign on the earth--after the 1000 years and after the earth is made new. His feet will not touch this corrupt earth until then. The saved go up to him.

stephen pollard said:

There is more than one type of Christianity it seems. However, this is the core foundation upon which the New Covenant stands:

This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds.’b]'>[b]

17 Then he adds:

‘Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more.
Heb10:16&17

What does it mean to have the law written in your mind and placed on your heart? For you cannot hide from law placed in your most inward parts. It means that in your mind you know how God wants you to live and in your heart you want to live that way. So it matters much where it is written. The Israelites had the written law, but that did not mean in their hearts they wanted to obey it did it. I can only speak for myself. When I responded to an altar call at a young age, my life was forever changed. Gone was the ability to live as I would naturally want to live without a care in the world. Those days could never return. Gone was the opportunity to break God's laws and have no conscience when I did so. Have I broken God's laws as a Christian? Of course, the same as everyone else does for none are perfect. However, as the law is in my heart, if I wilfully transgress it my conscience is seered, and I have no rest, and no peace until I come before my Father in Heaven and tell him I am sorry for my folly, then I get my peace back.
Maybe others did not have that kind of conversion. So continuing in unrepentant sin is not something I can contemplate for my own life, for when I was born again, such a thing could not be a possibility

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Yes--exactly. However--when it comes to the Sabbath--it is an inconvenience to do as He says. And therefore no conscience will speak for people have grown up with the concept that it is OK to break the 4th and to have another day in its place. They do not regard it as breaking it. And for many who do see the light, some still do not change, for it messes up their whole schedules! I know, because they have told me so. They wil agree that it is the truth, but they flat out say that they can not inconvenience themselves to that extant. It is then that they are breaking it. For when you have been convicted that it is the truth, but still refuse to obey it, then it is sin.

mmksparbud said:

Yes--exactly. However--when it comes to the Sabbath--it is an inconvenience to do as He says. And therefore no conscience will speak for people have grown up with the concept that it is OK to break the 4th and to have another day in its place. They do not regard it as breaking it. And for many who do see the light, some still do not change, for it messes up their whole schedules! I know, because they have told me so. They wil agree that it is the truth, but they flat out say that they can not inconvenience themselves to that extant. It is then that they are breaking it. For when you have been convicted that it is the truth, but still refuse to obey it, then it is sin.

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You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts. 2Cor3:3

The law God desires you to follow is not written in ink but on tablets of human hearts. That law is in your heart and mind, it is in your most inward parts and you cannot hide from it. I have never been convicted I must observe a set Saturday sabbath, but the list is endless as to other things I have been convicted of. Your conviction you must observe a set Saturday sabbath came from reading what is written in ink, that is not where the law is for the believer

stephen pollard said:

You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts. 2Cor3:3

The law God desires you to follow is not written in ink but on tablets of human hearts. That law is in your heart and mind, it is in your most inward parts and you cannot hide from it. I have never been convicted I must observe a set Saturday sabbath, but the list is endless as to other things I have been convicted of. Your conviction you must observe a set Saturday sabbath came from reading what is written in ink, that is not where the law is for the believer

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It is in the heart--and that is exactly where it is in mine. Just the sane as it was with Jesus and the disciples and remained so after the resurrection.
Have to go---hungry Siberian Husky.

mmksparbud said:

It is in the heart--and that is exactly where it is in mine. Just the sane as it was with Jesus and the disciples and remained so after the resurrection.
Have to go---hungry Siberian Husky.

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Well when Jesus walked this earth, the old covenant was still in operation of course. And it would be only natural for most to still keep saturday as their sabbath day once the new covenant begun for that is what they had always known, but Paul states:

One man considers one day more sacred/holy than another, another man considers every day alike, each one should be fully convinced in his own mind Rom14:5

BTW
There is nothing wrong with you, if you choose to observing a Saturday sabbath. The problem comes by insisting everyone else must do the same

Greetings mmksparbud,

mmksparbud said:

That I will, have to disagree with--
2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
2Pe 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
2Pe 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

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I appreciate your quick response but you have not answered Isaiah 2:1-4, Daniel 2:35, 44, Micah 4:1-8, Zechariah 14 and Acts 3:19-21 which all speak about what will happen when Jesus returns. There is no hint of a 1000 year gap as suggested by SDAs. These prophecies speak of the transition from the present kingdoms of men upon the earth to the Kingdom of God upon the earth. In actual fact, my experience of SDAs is that they suggest that Zechariah 14 will not be fulfilled, as it clearly speaks of mortals during the 1000 years. Taking the first of your quotations only, I believe that this is figurative language and must be compared with Isaiah 65:17-25 which speaks of the New Heaven and Earth at the return of Jesus. Only one part of the Millerites believed in the literal burning of the earth, while others believed in Christ’s rule upon the earth for the 1000 years.

Kind regards Trevor

Natsumi Lam said:

Hi Family,

What is SDA?

What is their doctrine?

Is it different than non-denom beliefs?

~Natsumi ~

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You'll learn here much about it as well as learn much about people here from there orientation toward it.
It is denom, so it's boundaries are well defined for the most part. "Legalism" seems to be at least a part of every organized group and every member of one. I'm not a joiner, but if I had to, SDA would be on my short list. As you can see here, they are respectful and studious. I particularly like Bob Ryan. Tell him I said hello if you run into him.

stephen pollard said:

Really? SDA members believe if you do not obey the ten commandments you may still enter heaven?

There are two different types of Christianity. Under the new covenant the law is written in your mind and placed on your heart(as you agree)
Sin is the transgression of the law(as you agree)
Through the law we become conscious of sin(as you agree)
What is in your mind you in your mind must know, the law in your heart must make you conscious you sin if you wilfully transgress it. Which only leaves two possibilities. Either the fourth commandment as written is not written in the mind or placed in the heart of believers, or, no one can be in a saved state if they have no heartfelt conviction of sin by failing to observe a set Saturday sabbath.

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I respect your intentions, but I believe you have incorrectly framed the situation.
As Jesus demonstrated, "keeping" the Sabbath" is about more than a ritual observance.
If a 'set observation' (ritual observance) soothes a heartfelt conviction, then the larger lesson, the point in it's entirety, isn't being realized.
Thank you.

Natsumi Lam said:

Hi Family,

What is SDA?

What is their doctrine?

Is it different than non-denom beliefs?

~Natsumi Lam~

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Hello. SDA stands for "Seventh Day Adventist". They believe in a variety of things but a few of the differences between SDA and mainstream Christian beliefs are that they believe in soul sleep. Which basically means that they believe that Christians will sleep in the ground until the resurrection which is different than the mainstream Christian belief that Christians go to the third heaven when they die until the resurrection. Another difference is that they believe that the law was never fulfilled in Jesus Christ and that Christians are still under the law because of these beliefs Christians have called SDA's a cult. Because they don't believe in many of the things the mainstream church believes. Beliefs that do match up with the mainstream church however is that they do believe in the trinity and that Jesus is the only way to salvation.

mmksparbud said:

Yes--exactly. However--when it comes to the Sabbath--it is an inconvenience to do as He says. And therefore no conscience will speak for people have grown up with the concept that it is OK to break the 4th and to have another day in its place. They do not regard it as breaking it. And for many who do see the light, some still do not change, for it messes up their whole schedules! I know, because they have told me so. They wil agree that it is the truth, but they flat out say that they can not inconvenience themselves to that extant. It is then that they are breaking it. For when you have been convicted that it is the truth, but still refuse to obey it, then it is sin.

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Agreed. Perfect example of Sola Tradition usurping Sola Scriptura.
People like to think the fervor of their good intentions purifies their willful indulgence of convenient error.
You've been around for quite awhile, haven't you? How's Bob Ryan, You seen him here lately?

HTacianas said:

The SDAs are followers of Ellen White, who claimed to have several visions of Jesus. She also made several prophecies including the date that Jesus would return. He didn't.

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Wrong, the person who made the date of 1844 was William Miller. The movement was the Millerites, and when the advent of Jesus returning didn't come in October of 1844, it was called the Great Disappointment. Ellen G. White did have visions, but never about setting dates.

The SDA church has long been considered a cult by mainstream churches and ''cult-watchers'' for one reason. Are the alleged writings of Ellen G. White taken to be inspired, like the Bible is inspired? If so, that is one of the leading indicators of a cult. However, these days the Adventists themselves seem to be of two minds about her revelations, so it is less common to hear the SDA labelled as a cult.

ToBeLoved said:

Well that’s not shocking since God’s Word says only the Father knows.

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His accusation is false. William Miller made the date forming the Millerites. But what he did start was looking for the actual return of Jesus Christ. SDA came out of that. The Adventist part of the name refers to the advent of Christ's second coming.

mmksparbud said:

1Jn_2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1Jn_3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
1Jn_3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

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WOW! You passed right over our New Covenant commandments! Did you think no one would notice? Very telling, indeed!

When the apostle John uses the word "commandment" he is not referring to the Ten Commandments out of the Old Covenant, but tells us here what commandments we are to follow that Jesus preached. This goes for all his writings, including Revelation.

1 John 3:23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment.

John 15:10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.

Two sets of commandments. Jesus lived under the law, to fulfill it and bring us to a New Covenant based on belief in Him. Jesus didn't rise on Saturday, but on Sunday. Why? Not because he was resting as Adventists believe, but to show He represents eternal life - the 8th day.

1stcenturylady said:

I'm not a SDA, but am not a liar either, nor will I put up with liars who bear false witness. Your quote of her is right out of the Bible. Matthew 16:28 "Assuredly, I say to you, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.”

We are to live our lives in expectancy of the second coming of Christ. Now, if you don't believe He is coming again, then I'm not the heretic. And neither was EGW.

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I am not the one prophecying.