Why I Think Christmas is Not Biblical (Please read OP before posting).

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Nor is my own birthday. So, what?

We are not talking about your birth day celebration. We are talking about how man thinks we need to celebrate the birth date of our Lord Jesus Christ in the way that he decides (When nothing is ever mentioned of it in Scripture). The problem is that people are adding to God's Word based in what they think Jesus should be about based upon the traditions of men. They say lets worship His birth on December 25th. But Jesus was actually born on Nisan 1 (the beginning of the Hebrew calendar year).

You said:
No Christian I know only celebrates Christ's birth. And often in Christmas-related sermons I've heard over the years the fact that the manger was the precursor to the cross is pointed out. What, then, of your point here? It appears to address an issue that doesn't exist.

It doesn't matter what people do with that holiday. The point is what does the holiday itself teach? What are the fruits of that holiday every year?

Paul preached using a phrase from an Athenian altar. That does not mean Paul wanted Christians to worship using that religion. Christmas itself is a holiday that does not teach the resurrection of Jesus Christ. Others may do so, but the holiday itself does not do so. When I was a kid, I know of Jesus being born, Santa, Christmas tree, and receiving stuff. That was my idea of Christmas because that is all I knew the holiday to actually teach. The holiday itself did not teach anything more than that. I did not even learn that Jesus is God even. We would sing Christian songs around the Christmas tree. Have the name Jesus on our fireplace, but I was never told who Jesus was as a part of that holiday. Why? Because the holiday itself never taught such a thing.

Jason0047 said:
Tell me, does Christmas focus on a risen Lord or does it focus on His birth?
You said:
Both, actually. At least in my experience. Christ's birth is only meaningful in light of his atoning work as the Lamb of God.

Actually, knowing the true birth date of our Lord (Nisan 1) also points us back to his death of the same month, too. Check out this video here to learn why Jesus was born on Nisan 1:


Anyways, while I am happy that you had an experience that shows Christ's birth in relation to His atoning work as the Lamb of God, this is not what the holiday itself teaches. The message of the holiday itself and it's traditions does not teach this. So if you knew no other Christians and you did not investigate Christianity outside of Christmas, you would never truly know about a risen Lord. Therein is the problem with Christmas. That and it teaches Jesus is born on a day alongside other pagan gods and we can also receive gifts from a man named Santa, too. So when some kids grow up and they learn that Santa is not real, they can then naturally think Jesus is not real, either.

You said:
I'm sure there are many people who celebrate birthdays on days coinciding with pagan festivals. So what? Are you suggesting that the birthday parties of all these people are therefore pagan? That would be silly, obviously. But if their birthday celebrations aren't pagan merely because they occur on pagan festival days, why should we think the birthday celebration for Christ is pagan for such a reason?

The difference is that Jesus is God and we are not. Jesus is worshiped and we are not worshiped. So when we change the birth date of our Lord to a date of other pagan gods are worshiped instead of on his true birth date, it is an attempt to say to people (who know to worship Him) that we should worship Jesus in a way that is not true or based upon man's traditions and saying we can worship Jesus alongside other pagan gods because He is no different.

I mean, where do you think Christmas comes from? Why do you think they call it Christmas? Christ-mass. It's the celebration of the mass of Christ. So unless you are Catholic, I do not see why you want to celebrate Christmas.

For you have to understand that Christmas itself does not teach what we need to do in regards to Jesus. Christmas teaches that we acknowledge Jesus was born but that we just give gifts to each other based upon greed and materialism (Which goes against the very teachings of Jesus Christ). The holiday itself teaches we are to have a pagan decorated tree (that men did worship wrongfully in the past) as a part of our recognizing Jesus. All these pagan elements are mixed in with a day we are supposed to recognize Jesus being born on a day of other pagan gods. Something is not right here.

You said:
As the story of Cain demonstrates, if we worship in contradiction to explicit commands from God concerning worship, then we do what is wrong. But we have no explicit command against celebrating Christmas in the Bible, so we may celebrate it without pang of conscience.

Actually, God's Word tells us how we are to worship Him within His Word. Christmas teaches contrary to what His Word says.

1. Bible suggests Jesus is born Nisan 1, Christmas says Dec. 25th with pagan gods.
2. Bible says putting up trees and decorating them is a problem, Christmas says it is not a problem.
3. Bible says we are not to just give to loved ones alone but we are to give to the poor, and or lend without expecting anything in return, Christmas says to give and also expect to receive something. In fact, it teaches greed and materialism.

Anyways, I will have to address the rest of what you have written later. I gotta run.

May the Lord's love shine upon you, even if we may disagree strongly.
 
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Ken Rank

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Important Note:
(Please read this before posting and or reading the rest of my OP):

I want to first say that I love you in the Lord Jesus Christ. I also want to say that I love all people. I am commanded by God to even love my enemies. My message today here is not that I want to be of hate or of malice, but of love. I say what I do in love to you. God tells me to even love the sinner and hate the sin. I am especially fond of my fellow Christians who truly desire to follow Christ and who seek to obey Him in everything that He tells us to do within His Word. That is what this thread is about. If you are offended by what I will say with Scripture, please know I am not saying I am better than you or that I do not care about you. I am nothing. The Lord our God is everything; And I love you deeply. I am merely calling you in love to follow God's Word and His Word alone. Only God can open our eyes, and change our hearts to see what His Word says in so many ways. I am only speaking and doing that which I believe is right by the Word of God. This thread is merely to show you what the Bible says about a popular celebration of the world when we compare it with Scripture. For surely we can love our families without a specific calendar day telling us to do so. We can most assuredly love our family by God's Word alone. In fact, speaking of God's Word, we are told within His Word to test everything (1 Thessalonians 5:21). We are to hold fast to that which is good (1 Thessalonians 5:21). My friends, I call you all in love to look at the Holy Scriptures today with a fresh new pair of eyes. Before you begin, I would like you to take a moment and pray. I would like for you to pray to the Lord and ask Him for wisdom and understanding before reading what I am about to share with you in love involving the Scriptures. For I write this because I love you in Christ Jesus.
Side Note: Did you pray yet? Did you really do it? Please do so now if you have not done so. Anyways, may the Lord's love and goodness be upon you this day that the Lord has made.​


Why I Think Christmas is Not Biblical.

#1. Christmas is not celebrated anywhere in the Bible.

(a) Jesus is not a baby right now but He is our risen Lord.

We are never told to honor just a baby Jesus alone,
but we are told to live unto a risen Lord (2 Corinthians 5:15).
Focusing on a baby version of Jesus (without mentioning the resurrection of Christ in our message) is to take the focus off of our risen Lord Jesus Christ. If our message does not include a risen Christ, then our preaching is in vain according to Paul:
"And if Christ be not risen,
then is our preaching vain,
and your faith is also vain." (1 Corinthians 15:14).
Tell me, does Christmas focus on a risen Lord or does it focus on His birth?

(b) While there are biblical clues to Christ's birth date, the date of Christ's birth is nowhere specifically mentioned in the Bible and oddly his birth is coincidentally placed upon the date of the worship of other pagan gods, and a popular pagan festival, instead.

Is it okay to worship God in any way we like? In Genesis 4, we see Cain trying to bring the harvest of the ground unto God as a sacrifice instead of offering an animal sacrifice like his brother Abel did correctly (See Genesis 4:3-7). Cain's offering was not accepted. His worship was not accepted. Why? Because he was doing his own thing. Cain grew angry and decided to kill his own brother over this. Friend, do you hate or dislike Christians who do not keep Christ-mass?
Jesus says he seeks for those who will worship Him in spirit and in truth (John 4:24). Are we worshiping in truth if there are some pagan elements (which are a lie) mixed in with the truth? Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life? (John 14:6). Jesus said, "You shall worship the Lord your God, and him only shalt you serve." (Luke 4:8). But how can we worship God alone if we are involving pagan elements in our worship of Him. Was not Cain's offering of doing whatever he wanted not accepted by God? (See Genesis 4:5). Was Cain truly worshiping God alone by being obedient to him or was he worshiping God his own way?​

#2. Christmas Trees.

21 Thou shalt not plant thee a grove of any trees near unto the altar of the Lord thy God, which thou shalt make thee.
22 Neither shalt thou set thee up any image; which the Lord thy God hateth."
(Deuteronomy 16:21).

2 "Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.
3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.
4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not." (Jeremiah 10:2-4).

Celts and druids (witches) believe trees are sacred or magical objects.
Meaning, they holds some kind of significance spiritually for them.

Even if you did not put up trees yourself.
You cannot stop others from doing so.
Christmas trees is about the holiday (holy day) season.
Some people sing praises to the Christmas tree (without thinking about it) in Christmas carols. People give attention to a beautiful object and put presents around it (like a gift or offering) to this beautiful object. Some people dance around the Christmas tree. Sure seems like harmless fun, but what if the Bible is really condemning trees?
Also, why would you want to imitate a practice that is similar to the druids and put up a sacred special tree in your home?
Sure, they may not think it is a god or idol exactly because your not bowing down to it or praying to it, but does that mean we can just put statues of demonic idols in our home and God would be okay with that?​

#3. Do not imitate the heathen's ways or men's traditions.

Colossians 2:8 says,
"Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ."

Is Christmas something in the Bible or is it more like a tradition of men and or after the rudiments of the world? Think about it. Should we let a world recognized holiday tell us how we are to worship our Lord? Or do we let the Bible alone tell us how we are to worship our Lord?

"Don't copy the behavior and customs of this world, but let God transform you into a new person by changing the way you think. Then you will learn to know God's will for you, which is good and pleasing and perfect." (Romans 12:2) (NLT).

"...Learn not the way of the heathen,..." (Jeremiah 10:2).

But it has Jesus in the holiday and we focus on Jesus, so it is okay, right?

It is written,

"For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him." (2 Corinthians 11:4).

Paul is saying to bear with them that preach another Jesus. He does not say to embrace another Jesus in whom they have not preached.

The Jesus that is being preached in Christmas is a baby Jesus and how we must give honor to Him by exchanging gifts (sometimes going into debt) around a Christmas tree.

In fact, 9 out of the 11 times the word "tradition" appears in the King James Bible, it is in reference to the traditions of men that were bad and not good (See this link here at BlueLetterBible). In fact, Jesus says that men were transgressing God's commands by their man made traditions. Christmas is a human tradition of man and it is nowhere to be found within the Scriptures; And we are told not to imitate the way of the heathen or the customs of the world. Christmas is very much a custom or celebration of the world.​

#4. True Giving vs Christmas Giving.

Do not give out of compulsion. For Paul says,

"You must each decide in your heart how much to give. And don't give reluctantly or in response to pressure. "For God loves a person who gives cheerfully.""
(2 Corinthians 9:7) (NLT).

Yet, Christmas is a time where you feel compelled to give out of pressure.

Christmas is also a time when it is about the exchange of gifts.

Yet, Jesus says,
Give without expecting anything in return.
For do not sinners love their own?
For sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again.

"And if you lend to them of whom you hope to receive, what thanks have you? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again. (Luke 6:34).

32 "For if you love them who love you, what thanks have you? for sinners also love those that love them.
33 And if you do good to them who do good to you, what thanks have you? for sinners also do even the same." (Luke 6:32-33).

"But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing in return; and your reward shall be great, and you shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil." (Luke 6:35).

12 "Then said he also to him that bade him, When you give a dinner or a supper, call not your friends, nor your brethren, neither your kinsmen, nor your rich neighbors; lest they also bid you again, and a recompense be made you.
13 But when you give a feast, call the poor, the maimed, the lame, the blind:
14 And you shall be blessed; for they cannot recompense you: for you shall be recompensed at the resurrection of the just." (Luke 14:12-14).

8 "And Zacchaeus stood, and said unto the Lord; Behold, Lord, the half of my goods I give to the poor; and if I have taken anything from any man by false accusation, I restore him fourfold.
9 And Jesus said unto him, "This day is salvation come to this house,...""
(Luke 19:8-9).​

#5. The focus of Christmas is materialism and not the worship of Christ on this day.

Most do not actually celebrate Jesus's birth on this day but they actually focus more on the gift giving and the decorating and in celebrating or having a good time with their family. For when the holidays come, do you prepare yourself in prayer, fasting, reading Scripture in order to worship Christ on Christmas? Or are you more focused on buying things for others and in getting together with your family to just have a good time? An insane amount of money is spent on Christmas each year and people have gone into financial debt as a result of it. Others beat each other up in department stores all in the spirit of Christmas. Is such a material focused holiday really something that is of God? How are you honoring Christ's birth truly? Are you focusing on those Scripture verses on the Nativity each year as a family? Do you and your family feel like you are drawing closer to God each year by celebrating the Lord's birth? Or is it more about the stuff with you saying that you are honoring Christ? I say this not to get you or anyone else here upset, but I say this as a means to examine yourself in your walk with the Lord in everything you do. To prove to you that Christmas is not materialistic, just tell your kids next year that they are not getting any gifts and watch their reaction. They have depended on being rich with things and not rich in the things of God. For some even look forward to Christmas just so as to receive money. However, the Bible says,
10 "For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
11 But you, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness." (1 Timothy 6:3-4).
#6. Be ye holy and separate from the world.

Atheists, psychics, and people of many faiths celebrate Christmas. It is the one time of year where everyone gets together to give and whereby some say they are doing it to honor Christ's birth. Everyone is one big happy family celebrating and exchanging gifts and excited over their newly received material goods. Everyone including Christ haters are celebrating Christmas along with Christ lovers. There is even an Atheist Christmas Carol (See here and or here). But the Bible says be ye holy (1 Peter 1:16), and be ye separate (2 Corinthians 6:17). The Bible says what fellowship does light have with darkness? (2 Corinthians 6:14). For it is written,
17 "This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,
18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:
19 Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.
20 But ye have not so learned Christ;
21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:" (Ephesians 4:17-21).
#7. Love not the things of this world.

In 1 John 2:15-17, it says love not the world, neither the things in this world, if any man loves the world, the love of the Father is not in them.

Christmas is technically a thing of this world. It is world recognized holiday.
But if you tell people you stopped celebrating Christmas, expect some hateful comments from people. Why?
"If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you." (John 15:19).

Colossians 3:1-3 says,

"Since you were raised from the dead with Christ, aim at what is in heaven, where Christ is sitting at the right hand of God. Think only about the things in heaven, not the things on earth. Your old sinful self has died, and your new life is kept with Christ in God."

Christmas is not something that is celebrated in Heaven. We are to think about the things in Heaven or above and not on the things of this Earth. Our focus should be on building ourselves up in righteousness, love, and faith according to God's Word and not according to the wisdom or ways of men.​
Anyways, I say all this in love and with the hope you will investigate the origins of Christmas on your own and seek the Scriptures with God in deep prayer and fasting on this matter. I know that if you will seek the truth, God will show it to you. Again, I say these things not condemn or hurt anyone but I say these things in love so as to answer the call of God in your Sanctification in being truly holy for the Lord. So..."Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven." (Matthew 5:16).
I appreciate the tone of your post, even if I don't agree with it. I want to be clear, my family doesn't celebrate Christmas, at least at home. My mother in law asks us over for dinner that day and we go because I am not going to rob her of the joy of the day. Which, by the way, to her is simply her family all coming together.

Christmas is about Christ... even though I recognize that there are facets of the holiday that are pagan hangovers (wreaths, mistletoe, etc.). But the songs, the literature, the day itself, has been about Christ for a long time. And that is exactly why the day is attacked, renamed, and given new meaning by secularists who hate Christ. Schools calling it "Winter break" or cities calling it "Twinkle season" are taking Christ out of something, deliberately, because to them he is what the season is about EVEN IF he was really born during Sukkot or Pesach.

Christmas as a day is not in the bible, but mistakenly thinking Christ was born on December 25th is not a sin. In fact, Romans 14 kind of covers Christmas. You see, when Paul said, "One indeed judges a day above another day; and another one judges every day alike. Let each one be fully assured in his own mind" he wasn't talking about days like Passover, Atonement, Tabernacles, etc. because those days were not optional to him, they were appointments with God. He was talking about additional days, additional feasts and fasts that if you wanted to set the day aside, go ahead.... just don't force it on others. If somebody believes Yeshua was born in December, again, they are wrong... but to them they are still honoring God and them doing so is between them and God, not you and them and God, respectfully.

Lastly, your #2 is just wrong, sorry. It is anachronistic at best. The Christmas tree, the cutting of a pine down, bringing it in and decorating it is early Germanic at best, but the best argument out there is it starting with Luther. In Jeremiah's day (he died over 2600 years ago) the cutting down of a tree and adorning it with gold and silver was not done in round balls.... it was done by pouring melted gold and silver over the wood AFTER it had been carved into an idol.... they were totem polls not Christmas trees. Also, the Hebrew word for tree there (and everywhere) is etz, which can mean tree but also branch, stick.... the two sticks in Ezekiel 37 held in Ezekiel's hand, for example... is also etz. So to take the English "tree" and and tie what happened in THAT time period and THAT geographical location and make it a Christmas tree is simply not possible. Well, it can be in our minds, but no historian would ever make such a leap... even one wanting to destroy out faith.
 
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Ken Rank

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Actually, knowing the true birth date of our Lord (Nisan 1) also points us back to his death, too. Check out this video here to learn why Jesus was born on Nisan 1:

Not that it matters, but just as compelling a case or even better is that he was born on the first day of Sukkot and circumcised on the last Great (and 8th) day. But it is one or the other, Passover or Tabernacles and not December. But so what? If somebody wants to honor God on that day or ANY other.... isn't it their business? Isn't it between them and God? I know people who fast on their baptism day... are they in error or are they simply setting a day aside for God?
 
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S.O.J.I.A.

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I think the OP used a wrong title.

The Xmas or Christmas (as Christians call it) is indeed biblical (things that belong to the world / as traditions of men) but the Bible speaks against it.

Cable TV is also found in the Bible in the Book of Psalms! :)

but not really..
 
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Kerensa

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I think all Christians should not celebrate it for biblical reasons.

This is exactly what I was talking about in another recent thread. It's one thing to say "I choose not to celebrate Christmas, and here's why, but I understand why most other Christians do and I respect everyone's right to make their own choice in these matters." It's another thing to repeatedly present a whole string of arguments (all of them highly questionable, as others here have shown again and again) about why "all Christians SHOULD NOT celebrate Christmas". That's reducing Christianity to sheer legalism while blatantly setting oneself up as superior to all these misguided and deluded souls who believe Christmas is something good and praiseworthy. It's not likely to change anyone's mind and it's certainly not likely to persuade non-believers that Christianity is worth looking into — more like the opposite.

Just speaking for myself, when I was a child I absolutely loved Christmas — yes, for all the excitement and the presents and all that, but even though my family were (and are) totally non-religious, I always somehow felt most drawn to the Nativity scene and the story of this very special baby. As a teenager I lost the very simple faith I once had and became an agnostic and was really quite cynical about Christmas, which did then feel like an empty, meaningless, purely materialistic drag. At the age of 20 I became a Christian and every Christmas since then has been alive with meaning like never before. Do you really think I, or the couple of billion other Christians to whom it means so much, will ever be persuaded that this special time is ungodly and unbiblical and pagan and satanic and "real" Christians should condemn it instead of celebrating it? I don't think so. o_O
 
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Ken Rank

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That's reducing Christianity to sheer legalism while blatantly setting oneself up as superior to all these misguided and deluded souls who believe Christmas is something good and praiseworthy.

That is exactly correct. This is for @Jason0047 as well.

Heresy TODAY is defined as not agreeing with the Orthodoxy or Mainstream view. But if you look up the Greek word we get heresy from, and in a Thayer or Liddel Scott lexicon, you'll find it means, "to storm a city, to take by force." The idea of force is behind the word and even though we don't storm a city, we can try to force others to believe as we do. And, even if we are correct, if you are trying to force or manipulate others to accept our view.... we are heretics. We have to watch out for that! Legalism and heresy... they both come out of trying to get others to accept our views.
 
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Danthemailman

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This is exactly what I was talking about in another recent thread. It's one thing to say "I choose not to celebrate Christmas, and here's why, but I understand why most other Christians do and I respect everyone's right to make their own choice in these matters." It's another thing to repeatedly present a whole string of arguments (all of them highly questionable, as others here have shown again and again) about why "all Christians SHOULD NOT celebrate Christmas". That's reducing Christianity to sheer legalism while blatantly setting oneself up as superior to all these misguided and deluded souls who believe Christmas is something good and praiseworthy. It's not likely to change anyone's mind and it's certainly not likely to persuade non-believers that Christianity is worth looking into — more like the opposite.

Just speaking for myself, when I was a child I absolutely loved Christmas — yes, for all the excitement and the presents and all that, but even though my family were (and are) totally non-religious, I always somehow felt most drawn to the Nativity scene and the story of this very special baby. As a teenager I lost the very simple faith I once had and became an agnostic and was really quite cynical about Christmas, which did then feel like an empty, meaningless, purely materialistic drag. At the age of 20 I became a Christian and every Christmas since then has been alive with meaning like never before. Do you really think I, or the couple of billion other Christians to whom it means so much, will ever be persuaded that this special time is ungodly and unbiblical and pagan and satanic and "real" Christians should condemn it instead of celebrating it? I don't think so. o_O
I hear you about reducing Christianity to sheer legalism while blatantly setting oneself up as superior to all these misguided and deluded souls who believe Christmas is something good and praiseworthy. If one is fully convinced that they cannot, in good conscience, observe Christmas because they believe it's too steeped in pagan traditions in order for them to honor God, then don't celebrate it.

At the same time, if one is fully convinced that you can honor and worship God during Christmas, then honor and worship God. For Christians, Christmas can be an important part of the celebration of the birth of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. There is also a tremendous opportunity for thousands of people who wouldn’t go to church any other time of the year to go on Christmas day and hear the Gospel. :)
 
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Kerensa

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If one is fully convinced that they cannot, in good conscience, observe Christmas because they believe it's too steeped in pagan traditions in order for them to honor God, then don't celebrate it.

At the same time, if one is fully convinced that you can honor and worship God during Christmas, then honor and worship God. For Christians, Christmas can be an important part of the celebration of the birth of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. There is also a tremendous opportunity for thousands of people who wouldn’t go to church any other time of the year to go on Christmas day and hear the Gospel. :)

Yes, exactly.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Constantine had absolutely no impact on Christians worshiping on Sunday. They had already been doing it for centuries, despite the fact that they had to go to work that same day. Today we separate Vespers from Matins and the Divine Liturgy, celebrating Vespers on Saturday evening, and then Matins and Divine Liturgy on Sunday morning, but the early Christians celebrated the 3 together after sundown of the Sabbath which is Sunday. (we still do this occasionally when we celebrate what is termed a "Vigil service")

I think you missed the point of the post which was discussing the pagan origin of Sun worship and Sunday which was in discussion with the op. Yes Christians were worshipping God on everyday of the week. That was not the point of the post however.
 
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prodromos

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I think you missed the point of the post which was discussing the pagan origin of Sun worship and Sunday which was in discussion with the op. Yes Christians were worshipping God on everyday of the week. That was not the point of the post however.
You missed the point of my post which was to correct your false claim about Constantine.
 
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Ken Rank

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You missed the point of my post which was to correct your false claim about Constantine.
It amazes me... some of the things attributed to Constantine that are simply false, made up and then repeated. Not that he isn't without fault, he certainly was... but my gosh has he become a whipping boy and 80% of what is claimed of him isn't even true!
 
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This is exactly what I was talking about in another recent thread. It's one thing to say "I choose not to celebrate Christmas, and here's why, but I understand why most other Christians do and I respect everyone's right to make their own choice in these matters." It's another thing to repeatedly present a whole string of arguments (all of them highly questionable, as others here have shown again and again) about why "all Christians SHOULD NOT celebrate Christmas". That's reducing Christianity to sheer legalism while blatantly setting oneself up as superior to all these misguided and deluded souls who believe Christmas is something good and praiseworthy. It's not likely to change anyone's mind and it's certainly not likely to persuade non-believers that Christianity is worth looking into — more like the opposite.

Just speaking for myself, when I was a child I absolutely loved Christmas — yes, for all the excitement and the presents and all that, but even though my family were (and are) totally non-religious, I always somehow felt most drawn to the Nativity scene and the story of this very special baby. As a teenager I lost the very simple faith I once had and became an agnostic and was really quite cynical about Christmas, which did then feel like an empty, meaningless, purely materialistic drag. At the age of 20 I became a Christian and every Christmas since then has been alive with meaning like never before. Do you really think I, or the couple of billion other Christians to whom it means so much, will ever be persuaded that this special time is ungodly and unbiblical and pagan and satanic and "real" Christians should condemn it instead of celebrating it? I don't think so. o_O

All Christians should not murder. Is that legalism, too?
 
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It amazes me... some of the things attributed to Constantine that are simply false, made up and then repeated. Not that he isn't without fault, he certainly was... but my gosh has he become a whipping boy and 80% of what is claimed of him isn't even true!

Even a Catholic encyclopedia says the same things about him. So no. You are simply buying a cover story that sounds better to you.
 
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I hear you about reducing Christianity to sheer legalism while blatantly setting oneself up as superior to all these misguided and deluded souls who believe Christmas is something good and praiseworthy. If one is fully convinced that they cannot, in good conscience, observe Christmas because they believe it's too steeped in pagan traditions in order for them to honor God, then don't celebrate it.

At the same time, if one is fully convinced that you can honor and worship God during Christmas, then honor and worship God. For Christians, Christmas can be an important part of the celebration of the birth of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. There is also a tremendous opportunity for thousands of people who wouldn’t go to church any other time of the year to go on Christmas day and hear the Gospel. :)

Jesus said if you love me, keep my commandments (John 14:15).

Jesus said if you will enter into life, keep the commandments (Matthew 19:17).

How do not see that as legalism or in the importance of how we must keep God’s commands as a part of having life or in loving Jesus?

You also falsely assume that God is okay with people participating in a day that focuses on greed and materialism in the name of Christ and Santa Clause. What are the major fruits of Christmas and do they line up with Scripture? Paul says if anyone preaches another Jesus in who have not preached, bear with them. It doesn’t say accept them. Paul never preached the Christmas version of Jesus.
 
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FenderTL5

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Christmas and Easter are only two out of the twelve major feast days celebrated in the Orthodox Church, as well as a large number of lesser feast days (such as the Nativity of John the Baptist or the triumph of the Church Councils over heresies) as well as minor feast days for the many Saints who have been revealed over the centuries. Many Protestants are already ignorant of most of those feast days and the reasons they were established, so it does not surprise me that they question Christmas. It is their loss, however if they fail to appreciate the purpose of establishing these feast days (and fasting days) and instead conflate the feast with the secular hijacking of the same.
quoting, because it's worth repeating.
 
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I don't know ... God did some pretty boss celebrating concerning His gift .... special star, angelic chorus, shepherd's reception, wise men with gifts, etc.

None of those were based on fall/winter pagan holy days, and ultimately the Day of the Invictus Sun for the Christian.

The Most High God gave us 7 Holy Days to celebrate, plus a Sabbath. None of them include a day about the birth of Christ, or a call to remember and reenact His nativity.

Did Christ - out of all of the life saving messages He gave - ever say to celebrate His birthday? No; men did.
 
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Important Note:
(Please read this before posting and or reading the rest of my OP):

I want to first say that I love you in the Lord Jesus Christ. I also want to say that I love all people. I am commanded by God to even love my enemies. My message today here is not that I want to be of hate or of malice, but of love. I say what I do in love to you. God tells me to even love the sinner and hate the sin. I am especially fond of my fellow Christians who truly desire to follow Christ and who seek to obey Him in everything that He tells us to do within His Word. That is what this thread is about. If you are offended by what I will say with Scripture, please know I am not saying I am better than you or that I do not care about you. I am nothing. The Lord our God is everything; And I love you deeply. I am merely calling you in love to follow God's Word and His Word alone. Only God can open our eyes, and change our hearts to see what His Word says in so many ways. I am only speaking and doing that which I believe is right by the Word of God. This thread is merely to show you what the Bible says about a popular celebration of the world when we compare it with Scripture. For surely we can love our families without a specific calendar day telling us to do so. We can most assuredly love our family by God's Word alone. In fact, speaking of God's Word, we are told within His Word to test everything (1 Thessalonians 5:21). We are to hold fast to that which is good (1 Thessalonians 5:21). My friends, I call you all in love to look at the Holy Scriptures today with a fresh new pair of eyes. Before you begin, I would like you to take a moment and pray. I would like for you to pray to the Lord and ask Him for wisdom and understanding before reading what I am about to share with you in love involving the Scriptures. For I write this because I love you in Christ Jesus.
Side Note: Did you pray yet? Did you really do it? Please do so now if you have not done so. Anyways, may the Lord's love and goodness be upon you this day that the Lord has made.​


Why I Think Christmas is Not Biblical.

#1. Christmas is not celebrated anywhere in the Bible.

(a) Jesus is not a baby right now but He is our risen Lord.

We are never told to honor just a baby Jesus alone,
but we are told to live unto a risen Lord (2 Corinthians 5:15).
Focusing on a baby version of Jesus (without mentioning the resurrection of Christ in our message) is to take the focus off of our risen Lord Jesus Christ. If our message does not include a risen Christ, then our preaching is in vain according to Paul:
"And if Christ be not risen,
then is our preaching vain,
and your faith is also vain." (1 Corinthians 15:14).
Tell me, does Christmas focus on a risen Lord or does it focus on His birth?

(b) While there are biblical clues to Christ's birth date, the date of Christ's birth is nowhere specifically mentioned in the Bible and oddly his birth is coincidentally placed upon the date of the worship of other pagan gods, and a popular pagan festival, instead.

Is it okay to worship God in any way we like? In Genesis 4, we see Cain trying to bring the harvest of the ground unto God as a sacrifice instead of offering an animal sacrifice like his brother Abel did correctly (See Genesis 4:3-7). Cain's offering was not accepted. His worship was not accepted. Why? Because he was doing his own thing. Cain grew angry and decided to kill his own brother over this. Friend, do you hate or dislike Christians who do not keep Christ-mass?
Jesus says he seeks for those who will worship Him in spirit and in truth (John 4:24). Are we worshiping in truth if there are some pagan elements (which are a lie) mixed in with the truth? Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life? (John 14:6). Jesus said, "You shall worship the Lord your God, and him only shalt you serve." (Luke 4:8). But how can we worship God alone if we are involving pagan elements in our worship of Him. Was not Cain's offering of doing whatever he wanted not accepted by God? (See Genesis 4:5). Was Cain truly worshiping God alone by being obedient to him or was he worshiping God his own way?​

#2. Christmas Trees.

21 Thou shalt not plant thee a grove of any trees near unto the altar of the Lord thy God, which thou shalt make thee.
22 Neither shalt thou set thee up any image; which the Lord thy God hateth."
(Deuteronomy 16:21).

2 "Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.
3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.
4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not." (Jeremiah 10:2-4).

Celts and druids (witches) believe trees are sacred or magical objects.
Meaning, they holds some kind of significance spiritually for them.

Even if you did not put up trees yourself.
You cannot stop others from doing so.
Christmas trees is about the holiday (holy day) season.
Some people sing praises to the Christmas tree (without thinking about it) in Christmas carols. People give attention to a beautiful object and put presents around it (like a gift or offering) to this beautiful object. Some people dance around the Christmas tree. Sure seems like harmless fun, but what if the Bible is really condemning trees?
Also, why would you want to imitate a practice that is similar to the druids and put up a sacred special tree in your home?
Sure, they may not think it is a god or idol exactly because your not bowing down to it or praying to it, but does that mean we can just put statues of demonic idols in our home and God would be okay with that?​

#3. Do not imitate the heathen's ways or men's traditions.

Colossians 2:8 says,
"Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ."

Is Christmas something in the Bible or is it more like a tradition of men and or after the rudiments of the world? Think about it. Should we let a world recognized holiday tell us how we are to worship our Lord? Or do we let the Bible alone tell us how we are to worship our Lord?

"Don't copy the behavior and customs of this world, but let God transform you into a new person by changing the way you think. Then you will learn to know God's will for you, which is good and pleasing and perfect." (Romans 12:2) (NLT).

"...Learn not the way of the heathen,..." (Jeremiah 10:2).

But it has Jesus in the holiday and we focus on Jesus, so it is okay, right?

It is written,

"For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him." (2 Corinthians 11:4).

Paul is saying to bear with them that preach another Jesus. He does not say to embrace another Jesus in whom they have not preached.

The Jesus that is being preached in Christmas is a baby Jesus and how we must give honor to Him by exchanging gifts (sometimes going into debt) around a Christmas tree.

In fact, 9 out of the 11 times the word "tradition" appears in the King James Bible, it is in reference to the traditions of men that were bad and not good (See this link here at BlueLetterBible). In fact, Jesus says that men were transgressing God's commands by their man made traditions. Christmas is a human tradition of man and it is nowhere to be found within the Scriptures; And we are told not to imitate the way of the heathen or the customs of the world. Christmas is very much a custom or celebration of the world.​

#4. True Giving vs Christmas Giving.

Do not give out of compulsion. For Paul says,

"You must each decide in your heart how much to give. And don't give reluctantly or in response to pressure. "For God loves a person who gives cheerfully.""
(2 Corinthians 9:7) (NLT).

Yet, Christmas is a time where you feel compelled to give out of pressure.

Christmas is also a time when it is about the exchange of gifts.

Yet, Jesus says,
Give without expecting anything in return.
For do not sinners love their own?
For sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again.

"And if you lend to them of whom you hope to receive, what thanks have you? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again. (Luke 6:34).

32 "For if you love them who love you, what thanks have you? for sinners also love those that love them.
33 And if you do good to them who do good to you, what thanks have you? for sinners also do even the same." (Luke 6:32-33).

"But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing in return; and your reward shall be great, and you shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil." (Luke 6:35).

12 "Then said he also to him that bade him, When you give a dinner or a supper, call not your friends, nor your brethren, neither your kinsmen, nor your rich neighbors; lest they also bid you again, and a recompense be made you.
13 But when you give a feast, call the poor, the maimed, the lame, the blind:
14 And you shall be blessed; for they cannot recompense you: for you shall be recompensed at the resurrection of the just." (Luke 14:12-14).

8 "And Zacchaeus stood, and said unto the Lord; Behold, Lord, the half of my goods I give to the poor; and if I have taken anything from any man by false accusation, I restore him fourfold.
9 And Jesus said unto him, "This day is salvation come to this house,...""
(Luke 19:8-9).​

#5. The focus of Christmas is materialism and not the worship of Christ on this day.

Most do not actually celebrate Jesus's birth on this day but they actually focus more on the gift giving and the decorating and in celebrating or having a good time with their family. For when the holidays come, do you prepare yourself in prayer, fasting, reading Scripture in order to worship Christ on Christmas? Or are you more focused on buying things for others and in getting together with your family to just have a good time? An insane amount of money is spent on Christmas each year and people have gone into financial debt as a result of it. Others beat each other up in department stores all in the spirit of Christmas. Is such a material focused holiday really something that is of God? How are you honoring Christ's birth truly? Are you focusing on those Scripture verses on the Nativity each year as a family? Do you and your family feel like you are drawing closer to God each year by celebrating the Lord's birth? Or is it more about the stuff with you saying that you are honoring Christ? I say this not to get you or anyone else here upset, but I say this as a means to examine yourself in your walk with the Lord in everything you do. To prove to you that Christmas is not materialistic, just tell your kids next year that they are not getting any gifts and watch their reaction. They have depended on being rich with things and not rich in the things of God. For some even look forward to Christmas just so as to receive money. However, the Bible says,
10 "For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
11 But you, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness." (1 Timothy 6:3-4).
#6. Be ye holy and separate from the world.

Atheists, psychics, and people of many faiths celebrate Christmas. It is the one time of year where everyone gets together to give and whereby some say they are doing it to honor Christ's birth. Everyone is one big happy family celebrating and exchanging gifts and excited over their newly received material goods. Everyone including Christ haters are celebrating Christmas along with Christ lovers. There is even an Atheist Christmas Carol (See here and or here). But the Bible says be ye holy (1 Peter 1:16), and be ye separate (2 Corinthians 6:17). The Bible says what fellowship does light have with darkness? (2 Corinthians 6:14). For it is written,
17 "This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,
18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:
19 Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.
20 But ye have not so learned Christ;
21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:" (Ephesians 4:17-21).
#7. Love not the things of this world.

In 1 John 2:15-17, it says love not the world, neither the things in this world, if any man loves the world, the love of the Father is not in them.

Christmas is technically a thing of this world. It is world recognized holiday.
But if you tell people you stopped celebrating Christmas, expect some hateful comments from people. Why?
"If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you." (John 15:19).

Colossians 3:1-3 says,

"Since you were raised from the dead with Christ, aim at what is in heaven, where Christ is sitting at the right hand of God. Think only about the things in heaven, not the things on earth. Your old sinful self has died, and your new life is kept with Christ in God."

Christmas is not something that is celebrated in Heaven. We are to think about the things in Heaven or above and not on the things of this Earth. Our focus should be on building ourselves up in righteousness, love, and faith according to God's Word and not according to the wisdom or ways of men.​
Anyways, I say all this in love and with the hope you will investigate the origins of Christmas on your own and seek the Scriptures with God in deep prayer and fasting on this matter. I know that if you will seek the truth, God will show it to you. Again, I say these things not condemn or hurt anyone but I say these things in love so as to answer the call of God in your Sanctification in being truly holy for the Lord. So..."Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven." (Matthew 5:16).

I will comment only on your first objection.

Revivals, altar calls, and invitation hymns are nowhere in the Bible, either.

You might want to read the book THE APOSTASY THAT WASN'T.
 
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Kaon

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Jesus said if you love me, keep my commandments (John 14:15).

Jesus said if you will enter into life, keep the commandments (Matthew 19:17).

How do not see that as legalism or in the importance of how we most keep God’s commands as a part of having life or in loving Jesus?

You also falsely assume that God is okay with people participating in a day that focuses on greed and materialism in the name of Christ and Santa Clause. What are the major fruits of Christmas and do they line up with Scripture? Paul says if anyone preaches another Jesus in who have not preached, bear with them. It doesn’t say accept them. Paul never preached the Christmas version of Jesus.

Stay strong in your beliefs; your Father is convicting you. Trust Him only, not even yourself and certainly not us.
 
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Ken Rank

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Even a Catholic encyclopedia says the same things about him. So no. You are simply buying a cover story that sounds better to you.
Jason... instead of taking a high school like shot at me, why not ask me what I mean, allow me to clarify. I will give you one example... OK? :)

Ever heard of the Constantine Creed? It starts like this (this is about 1/3rd of it)

“I renounce all customs, rites, legalisms, unleavened breads and sacrifices of lambs of the Hebrews, and all the other feasts of the Hebrews, sacrifices, prayers, aspirations, purifications, sanctifications, and propitiations, and fasts and new moons, and Sabbaths, and superstitions, and hymns and chants, and observances and synagogues. absolutely everything Jewish, every Law, rite and custom and if afterwards I shall wish to deny and return to Jewish superstition, or shall be found eating with Jews, or feasting with them, or secretly conversing and condemning the Christian religion instead of openly confuting them and condemning their vain faith, then let the trembling of Cain and the leprosy of Gehazi cleave to me, as well as the legal punishments to which I acknowledge myself liable."

This gem went around the internet a couple of years ago and is, well, crap! How do I know? Well... for starters.... how could Constantine renounce all sacrifices of lambs done by Hebrews when the Temple was destroyed (ending the sacrifices) about 230 YEARS before Constantine was even in power? He also states in this "creed" that he would like to deny RETURNING TO Jewish things. Interesting that a guy who was raised a Mithras worshiper and who had NOTHING to do with ANYTHING Jewish, would not want to return to Jewish things?????

So where does this "creed" come from? In 1748, a monk name Stephano Assemeni found this document and it was, he said, written in Syriac (HALT..... Syriac is ancient Aramaic, Constantine would have written in Latin or Greek and NO WAY in ancient Aramaic). Stephano then translated it into Latin and then 2 years later the "original" was lost in a fire... how convenient. So we have one copy in all of history, and that the Latin rendering by Assemani. We must have more than one witness for ANY truth to be established anyway.

That is one example.... would you like to find out how Constantine only made legal (Sunday observance) what had already been the practice among Christians since about 150AD, right after the Bar Kokhba Revolt?

Much is attributed to him that simply isn't true. Yes I question his conversion! Yes if he really forced baptized his army he is a heretic (according to the original definition of the word). But much of what is laid at his feet is simply crap. Sorry... no better word fits some of the dung being slung around!
 
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