Discussion - Earth calamities and Rumors of war

jgr

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All concerning Christ was fulfilled regarding His first coming (Isaiah 53), but not His Second Coming (Zechariah 14).

True. And by intrinsic definition, futurism exists to minimize the former and maximize the latter.

But fails.

It will be, at His Second Coming (Zechariah 14).

Nowhere does Christ say that Daniel 9:24 will be fulfilled again. It was fulfilled once and for all at Calvary (Hebrews 7:27; 10:10,12). But the blessings and benefits of that single fulfillment are everlasting.

There was a dual meaning. So, in the Bible, the same verse can refer to two different events separated in time.

A dual meaning is not a dual fulfillment. There was only a single fulfillment.

In Daniel 9:26 the original Hebrew word (H3772) translated as "cut off" can refer to when a peace treaty/covenant is "made" (Genesis 21:27).

From the Brown-Driver-Briggs link in the Biblehub Hebrew interlinear:

1 be cut off:

b. of persons, the people of the land by a famine (בְּ) Genesis 41:36 (E); all flesh by waters of deluge (מִמֵּי) Genesis 9:11 (P); the anointed Daniel 9:26; enemies Isaiah 11:13; Micah 5:8; the wicked Isaiah 29:20; Hosea 8:4; Nahum 2:1; Psalm 37:9; Psalm 37:22; Psalm 37:28; Psalm 37:34; Psalm 37:38; Proverbs 2:22; others Obadiah 9,10; Zephaniah 1:11; Zechariah 13:8; Zechariah 14:2.

There is no reference to a covenant associated with Messiah being cut off in Daniel 9:26.

It's by comparison with other verses (Daniel 11:22-23).

For in a future, antitypical fulfillment of Daniel 11:22-23, it can refer to two different future leaders: the Antichrist and an ultra-Orthodox Jewish false "Messiah" in Jerusalem. That is, Daniel 11:22-23 can mean: "with the arms of a flood [an overwhelming armed attack] shall they [the ultra-Orthodox Jews in Jerusalem] be overflown from before him [the Antichrist], and shall be broken [defeated]; yea, also the prince of the covenant [an ultra-Orthodox Jewish false "Messiah" claiming to rule under the Old Covenant Mosaic law]. And after the league made with him [the ultra-Orthodox Jewish false "Messiah", cf. Daniel 9:26a] he [the Antichrist] shall work deceitfully: for he shall come up, and shall become strong with a small people".

Daniel 11 is primarily prophecy about Antiochus IV Epiphanes. The prince of the covenant in Daniel 11:22 is a reference to the Jewish high priest Onias III, who was deposed. There is no connection between Daniel 9:26-27 and Danel 11:23-24.

This "small people" could be the numerically-small Druze Arab people (of whom the future Antichrist could be one), and/or the numerically-small, yet very powerful, Gnostic Luciferians, also called Satanists (of whom the Antichrist is one), who are networked by a worldwide secret society, and who currently hold some very high positions of power in the world's top corporations, banks, intelligence agencies, federal law enforcement agencies, military branches, and the executive, legislative, and judicial branches of the world's governments. While some of these people may already be in the highest positions, many could be strategically placed in the number-two and/or number-three positions, so that they can quickly take control when the future Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast) comes into worldwide power (Revelation 13:7-18), by them murdering those who are now in the highest positions (such as by lacing their coffees with drugs which cause heart attacks, but which leave no residue detectable in autopsies).

Futurist fantasy.

Again, in Daniel 9:26 the original Hebrew word (H3772) translated as "cut off" can refer to when a peace treaty/covenant is "made" (Genesis 21:27).

See above. There is no reference to a covenant associated with Messiah being cut off in Daniel 9:26.

This treaty will allow a false "Messiah" and his followers to keep a third Jewish temple which they will have built on Jerusalem's Temple Mount (after they and/or great earthquakes have destroyed the Muslim structures there), and to (mistakenly) continue to perform the daily Mosaic animal sacrifices in front of the temple for at least seven years (Daniel 9:27a), so long as they give up the outer court of the temple (Revelation 11:2a) to the Muslims so that they can rebuild the (by that time destroyed) Al Aqsa Mosque on the southern end of the Temple Mount and resume worship there. After "cutting" this peace treaty (Daniel 9:26a), the future Antichrist could appear before the "many" (Daniel 9:27) nations represented at the U.N. General Assembly, and "confirm" (Daniel 9:27) that for at least seven years he will keep this treaty with the ultra-Orthodox Jews in Jerusalem, using this as purported proof to the world that he is (in his words) "a man of peace, and no Hitler".

In Daniel 9:27, "he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease" refers to when, only some 3.5 years after making the peace treaty of Daniel 9:26a,27a and Daniel 11:23a, the future Antichrist will break the treaty, attack the third temple, and stop the daily Mosaic animal sacrifices.

When Daniel 9:27 says: "for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate", this is the same as "the abomination that maketh desolate" in Daniel 11:31, when the future Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") will make a future, third Jewish temple in Jerusalem spiritually desolate by placing a (possibly android) image of himself (Revelation 13:15) in the holy place of the temple (Matthew 24:15) to be worshipped, and by sitting himself (at least one time) in the temple and proclaiming himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36).

In Daniel 9:27 the original Hebrew word (H3671) translated as "overspreading" can mean a wing (1 Kings 6:24). But it does not have to mean that every time that it is used. For it can also mean "the uttermost part" (Isaiah 24:16). The "overspreading" or "uttermost part" nature of the abomination of desolation could mean that it will involve not just the holy place of the temple, but the entire temple. For example, what the future Antichrist could do is engrave the gematrial number of his name, "666" (Revelation 13:17b-18), all over the temple, within and without, top to bottom, thereby completely defiling it, rendering it spiritually desolate.

The future Antichrist will be a Luciferian (Satanist), bringing the world into the conscious and open worship of Lucifer (Satan, the dragon) (Revelation 13:4, Revelation 12:9), and railing against YHWH (Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:36). The Antichrist will want to utterly defile the future, third Jewish temple to YHWH in Jerusalem (built by the ultra-Orthodox Jews) so that he can poke his finger in YHWH's eye, so to speak, and purportedly show the world (what he could call) "YHWH's powerlessness to defend the place which he himself has chosen" (cf. Zechariah 3:2). The Antichrist could claim that his ability to commit the abomination of desolation with impunity proves (in his words) "that YHWH cannot thwart the will of our Lord Lucifer, who empowers me" (compare 2 Thessalonians 2:9, Revelation 13:4, Revelation 12:9).

But YHWH will permit the Antichrist and Lucifer to rule the world for less than four years (Daniel 12:11-12), before they are defeated at Jesus Christ's future, Second Coming (Revelation 19:19 to 20:3).

There is no future Antichrist. (1 John 2:18,22; 4:3; 2 John 1:7).

Note that there is, for the Millennium will begin after Jesus Christ's future, Second Coming (Revelation 19:7 to 20:6, Zechariah 14:3-21), when He will reign physically on the earth with the physically resurrected Church (of all times) for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29, Psalms 2, Psalms 66:3-4). During the Millennium, Jesus will place obedient Christians over cities (Luke 19:17-19) and nations (Revelation 2:26-29) and political divisions within nations (Matthew 19:28, Luke 22:30), while Jesus will be King of kings (Revelation 19:16) over the entire earth (Zechariah 14:9, Psalms 72:8-11), reigning in the earthly Jerusalem (Micah 4:1-8,13, Zechariah 14:8-21).

Isaiah 19 and Isaiah 11:6-16 are also examples of Millennial scriptures.

Amillennialism ends up (inadvertently) logically requiring the error of full preterism (2 Timothy 2:18). For claiming that the Church's resurrection in Revelation 20:4-6 is already present requires that Jesus Christ's Second Coming has already happened. For the Church's resurrection in Revelation 20:4-6 will not happen until the Second Coming (Revelation 19:7 to 20:6; 1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-54; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-16). Also, amillennialism ends up (inadvertently) logically requiring the error of partial preterism. For regarding the resurrection of those beheaded by the future Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") during the future Tribulation, and their subsequent reigning on the earth with the returned Jesus for the full 1,000 years of the future Millennium (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29), to say that this is already present would require that the Antichrist's literal, 3.5-year worldwide reign during the Tribulation (Revelation 13:4-18) has already happened. Also, amillennialism is mistaken because it requires that the devil is currently bound in the Bottomless Pit (Revelation 20:1-6), when in fact he is currently walking around on the earth seeking whom he may devour (1 Peter 5:8); and he will not be bound until Jesus' future, Second Coming (Revelation 19:19 to 20:3).

Our reign in Christ begins upon our salvation by grace through faith (Romans 5:17,21).

The Church's resurrection is a spiritual resurrection from death in sin to life in Christ. (John 5:24, Hebrews 1:1). Futurist literality cannot comprehend such a resurrection.

Luke 19:11-27 is a parable about Christian stewardship. It has nothing to do with a millennium or literal cities.

There is no future Tribulation. (John 16:33; Acts 14:22; Romans 5:3; Romans 12:12; 2 Corinthians 1:4; 2 Corinthians 7:4).

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jgr said in post #81:

[Re: Jesus' first and second comings]

. . . futurism exists to minimize the former and maximize the latter.

Not at all, for Christian Futurism exists to maximize the significance of both comings of Christ, just as the Bible itself does (Isaiah 53, Zechariah 14).

It is sometimes asked: "But does not futurism/premillennialism make Christ a failure for not establishing His physical Kingdom at His first coming?"

The answer is No, for He was never meant to establish it at His first coming. Instead, He was meant to meekly suffer and die on the Cross for our sins (Isaiah 53), by which work the spiritual aspect of His Kingdom (Romans 14:17) could be established on the earth first (Romans 3:24-26). It was not a contingency plan, but was always determined, that He would not establish the physical aspect of His kingdom until His future, Second Coming (Zechariah 14:3-21, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6).

So the question in Acts 1:6 is answered elsewhere in the Bible (Acts 3:20-21, Zechariah 14:3-21).

That is, regarding "restoring the kingdom" to Israel (Acts 1:6), it means restoring the kingdom of Israel in a physical way in which it will bear fruit (Matthew 21:43), which will not happen until Jesus Christ's future, Second Coming (Acts 3:20-21, Zechariah 14:3-21).

Presently, the Kingdom of God is in heaven (2 Timothy 4:18, Hebrews 12:22-24), and is on the earth spiritually within Christians (Romans 14:17, Luke 17:21). But in the future, the Kingdom will come fully upon the earth as it is in heaven (Matthew 6:10). It will also be physically (Luke 22:30, Matthew 19:28) on the earth (Revelation 5:10), first during the future Millennium (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 2:26-29, Psalms 66:3-4, Psalms 72:8-11, Zechariah 14:3-21), and then forever on the New Earth (Revelation 21:1-8), as in a new surface for the earth.

Jesus Christ's Kingdom is Israel (John 1:49, John 12:13-15, John 19:19, Luke 22:30). And at His future, Second Coming, He will sit on the earthly throne of King David (Luke 1:32-33, Isaiah 9:7) and restore the kingdom to Israel (Acts 1:6-7, Acts 3:20-21). Jesus is, in His humanity, the son of David (Matthew 1:1, Matthew 21:15-16, Romans 1:3), of the house of David (Luke 1:69). So at Jesus' Second Coming, He will restore the tabernacle, the house, of David (Isaiah 16:5, Amos 9:11) to its royal glory (2 Samuel 5:12), which it had lost (2 Kings 17:21a). And Jesus will fulfill the prophecy and prayer of 2 Samuel 7:16-29. And He will bring salvation to all of the still-living, non-Christian elect Jews of the house of David. For they (along with all other still-living, non-Christian elect Jews) will become Christians when they see Jesus at His Second Coming (Zechariah 12:10-14, Zechariah 13:1,6, Romans 11:26-31). And so they will all become part of the Church at that time. For there are no Christians outside of the Church (Ephesians 4:4-6).

After Jesus Christ's future, Second Coming (Revelation 19:7 to 20:3, Zechariah 14:3-5) will occur the Millennium (Revelation 20:4-6, Zechariah 14:8-21), during which time the Gentile nations will come to seek the returned Jesus ruling the whole earth (Zechariah 8:22, Zechariah 14:9, Psalms 72:8-11) on the restored throne of David (Isaiah 9:7) in the earthly Jerusalem (Isaiah 2:1-4, Zechariah 14:8-11,16-19). And the physically resurrected Church will reign on the earth with Jesus during the Millennium (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29). For the Church is Israel (Romans 11:1,17,24, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29, Revelation 21:9,12; 1 Peter 2:9-10).

jgr said in post #81:

Nowhere does Christ say that Daniel 9:24 will be fulfilled again.

Nowhere does He deny that it will, as in Zechariah 14, at His future, Second Coming.

jgr said in post #81:

It was fulfilled once and for all at Calvary (Hebrews 7:27; 10:10,12). But the blessings and benefits of that single fulfillment are everlasting.

Note that Daniel 9:24 can apply to the future as well as the past and present.

For example, when the apostle Paul says: "until the fulness (pleroma) of the Gentiles be come in" (Romans 11:25), he means until a full number of Gentile individuals have become Christians, which will not happen until near the end of the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, right before Jesus Christ's Second Coming (Romans 11:26), immediately after the Tribulation (Matthew 24:29-30); just as Luke 21:24 shows that "the times of the Gentiles" will not be "fulfilled (pleroo)" until the completion of the treading down of Jerusalem during the future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign of the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") (Revelation 11:2b, Revelation 13:5-18), during the second half of the future Tribulation.

Immediately after the future Tribulation, when the whole world will see the amazing return of Jesus Christ Himself from heaven (Matthew 24:29-30, Revelation 1:7), all of the still-living, unsaved, elect Jews will be ashamed, and weep, and become Christians, when they see Jesus, and realize that He truly is their salvation (Zechariah 12:10-14, Romans 11:26-29). And so they will all become part of the Church at that time, just as when Jews become Christians now they become part of the Church. For there are no Christians outside of the Church (Ephesians 4:4-6).

And the Jews who will become Christians at Jesus Christ's future, Second Coming will all become part of the Church by receiving some measure of God's Holy Spirit, who is "the spirit of grace and of supplications" in Zechariah 12:10 (Hebrews 10:29c, Romans 8:26), just as Jewish Christians today become part of the Church by receiving some measure of the Holy Spirit. For it is by receiving some measure of the Holy Spirit that both Jewish and Gentile Christians become part of the Church (1 Corinthians 12:13).

Also, if the Jews who will become Christians at Jesus Christ's future, Second Coming had been religious Jews, they will not continue to mistakenly try to keep the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law, because they will then be believers in the truth that on Jesus Christ's Cross, for both Jews and Gentiles (John 11:51-52) of all times, the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law was completely and forever abolished (Ephesians 2:15-16, Colossians 2:14-17; 2 Corinthians 3:6-18).

Also, the fullness of the Gentiles coming in during the future Tribulation does not mean that no Gentiles will be added to the Church during the subsequent Millennium, because they will be (Isaiah 66:19-20). For "fullness" does not have to mean "no more after that". For example, even after a cup has been filled with wine, more wine can be added to it, so that the "cup runneth over" (Psalms 23:5b). Also, it does not matter that the new Christians during the Millennium will be added to the Church/bride (of Ephesians 4:4-6, Ephesians 5:30-32) after the marriage of the Church to Jesus Christ occurred at His Second Coming (Revelation 19:7). For as many husbands have discovered, a bride can increase in size sometime after her wedding.

jgr said in post #81:

A dual meaning is not a dual fulfillment. There was only a single fulfillment.

Hosea 11:1b refers to two different events separated by time, just as Daniel 11:31 and Daniel 9:26 do.

jgr said in post #81:

There is no reference to a covenant associated with Messiah being cut off in Daniel 9:26.

In Daniel 9:26 the original Hebrew word (karath: H3772) translated as "cut off" can refer to when a peace treaty/covenant is "made" (Genesis 21:27).
 
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jgr said in post #81:

There is no connection between Daniel 9:26-27 and Daniel 11:23-24.

Note that because the future Antichrist will fulfill Daniel 11:31 antitypically (Matthew 24:15), and will fulfill Daniel 11:36 for the first and only time (2 Thessalonians 2:4), he will also fulfill all of Daniel 11:21-45 (the first part antitypically, and the rest for the first and only time) when he arises on the world stage. For that passage refers to the career of the same man.

Also, no man ever sat in the Jewish temple in Jerusalem and proclaimed himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36,31, cf. Matthew 24:15), just as no man ever fulfilled other detailed references to the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the "beast") in Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 16:2-16, Revelation 19:19-21, and 2 Thessalonians 2:8-9. Any mistaken teaching which says that the Antichrist has already come and gone could be employed in our future by the real Antichrist to fool some Christians into thinking that he is not the Antichrist.

The Antichrist will fulfill 2 Thessalonians 2:4 after he by force takes control of a future, third Jewish temple in Jerusalem, stops the daily Mosaic animal sacrifices which the ultra-Orthodox Jews will have restarted in front of it, and has the abomination of desolation (possibly a standing, android image of the Antichrist) set up in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of the temple (Daniel 11:31,36, Matthew 24:15).

The Antichrist could then make quite a show of his sitting himself in the temple and declaring himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36,31). In a television and internet spectacle which will be seen live by the world, he could first be shown entering the temple's most holy place in magnificent golden robes. He could then step up to the Ark of the Covenant (which could have been discovered, and placed in the temple by the Jews) and lift the Mercy Seat off of the Ark, showing it to be empty. He could then look into the camera and say: "Where is YHWH? He is not here! He is a distant fraud! His power on this earth is as hollow as this empty Ark!" (The Antichrist will utterly revile YHWH: Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:36.)

Then the Antichrist could raise the Mercy Seat high above his head only to suddenly smash it down violently to the ground, breaking it into pieces. The piped-in sound of crowds roaring with approval could then be heard in the background. Then the Antichrist could place his hands on the Ark and stare into the camera: "WE can do better than this". He could then knock over the Ark and stamp it with his foot, bashing in its side. Two of the Antichrist's followers in robes could then quickly come in and clear away the rubble of the Mercy Seat and the Ark, while four strong men in robes carry into the temple's most holy place a magnificent golden throne and place it right where the Ark had been before. The men could then bow down and motion with their arms for the Antichrist to sit on the throne. He could then grandly take his seat upon it.

Glorious symphonic music could then swell as the sound of crowds roaring with approval increases. Then the Antichrist's False Prophet (of Revelation 19:20) (who could be an apostate pope) could enter the temple's most holy place and approach the Antichrist carrying a majestic golden crown encrusted with large diamonds and all kinds of precious stones. The Antichrist could then take the crown from the pope's outstretched hands. And as the Antichrist is placing the crown on his own head, a camera could slowly zoom in on his face as he says in a deep voice: "I AM THAT I AM. I AM YOUR GOD. WORSHIP ME, ALL YE NATIONS OF THE EARTH!"

(Compare Revelation 13:8, Daniel 11:36; 2 Thessalonians 2:4)

jgr said in post #81:

There is no reference to a covenant associated with Messiah being cut off in Daniel 9:26.

Again, in Daniel 9:26 the original Hebrew word (karath: H3772) translated as "cut off" can refer to when a peace treaty/covenant is "made" (Genesis 21:27).

jgr said in post #81:

There is no future Antichrist. (1 John 2:18,22; 4:3; 2 John 1:7).

Any person is an antichrist who denies that Jesus of Nazareth is the Christ (1 John 2:22), or denies that Jesus is the human/divine Son of God (1 John 2:22b), or denies that Christ is in the flesh (2 John 1:7). The spirit of antichrist which will animate the future Antichrist has been working since the first century AD (1 John 4:3; 2 Thessalonians 2:7a) animating many antichrists since that time (2 John 1:7).

But the existence of many antichrists (1 John 2:18) does not contradict that there will be an individual man (2 Thessalonians 2:3-4,9, Revelation 13:4-18) who is commonly called the Antichrist; just as on the side of good, the existence of many sons of God (John 1:12) does not contradict that there is an individual man, Jesus Christ of Nazareth, who is the Son of God (John 20:31).

Also, the idea of the individual-man Antichrist does not have to be explicitly referred to in the Bible as "the Antichrist" for it to be true and supported by the Bible; just as, for example, the idea of the Trinity does not have to be explicitly referred to in the Bible as "the Trinity" for it to be true and supported by the Bible (e.g. Matthew 28:19, John 1:1,14, Acts 5:3-4).

The man commonly called the Antichrist will be the fulfillment of the individual "man of sin" (2 Thessalonians 2:3) who will sit (at least one time) in a future, third Jewish temple building in Jerusalem and proclaim himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36). He will fulfill the individual "man" aspect of the "beast" who will come (Revelation 13:18) and bring the world into the conscious and open worship of Lucifer (Satan, the dragon) and himself (Revelation 13:4,8, Revelation 12:9). He will rule the earth for 3.5 literal years (Revelation 13:5-10, Daniel 7:25, Daniel 12:7) and will have a miracle-working False Prophet (Revelation 19:20, Revelation 16:13) who by amazing, Satanic miracles (2 Thessalonians 2:9b), such as calling fire down from heaven (Revelation 13:13), will deceive the people of the world into worshipping a speaking (possibly an android) image of the Antichrist (Revelation 13:15) and receiving a mark of the Antichrist's name or gematrial name-number (666) on their right hand or forehead (Revelation 13:16-18). The Antichrist and his False Prophet will be ultimately cast into the lake of fire at Jesus Christ's future, Second Coming (Revelation 19:20), while at that time Satan will be bound in the Bottomless Pit for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:1-3). None of these things has happened yet.

Any mistaken teaching which claims that the Antichrist has already come and gone could be employed in our future by the real Antichrist to fool some Christians into thinking that he is not the Antichrist.

The idea of a future, individual-man Antichrist was correctly recognized in the Bible by the Church from early on. Irenaeus (born c. 140 AD) used the term: "speaking of Antichrist, [Paul] says, 'who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped'" (Against Heresies 3:6:5; 2 Thessalonians 2:4); "...by means of the events which shall occur in the time of Antichrist is it shown that he, being an apostate and a robber, is anxious to be adored as God" (Against Heresies 5:25:1; 2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36, Revelation 13:8); "...when this Antichrist shall have devastated all things in this world, he will reign for three years and six months, and sit in the temple at Jerusalem" (Against Heresies 5:30:4b; Revelation 13:5; 2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 7:25, Daniel 12:7); "...the number of the name of the beast ... the name of Antichrist" (Against Heresies 5:30:1; Revelation 13:17c-18).

The gematrial numerical values of the letters in the Antichrist's personal name will add up to six hundred and sixty-six (Revelation 13:17c-18).

jgr said in post #81:

The Church's resurrection is a spiritual resurrection from death in sin to life in Christ. (John 5:24, Hebrews 1:1).

Whereas there is the non-physical resurrection of initial salvation (e.g. Ephesians 2:5-6), the "first resurrection" in Revelation 20:4-6 will be physical (cf. Romans 8:23). For Revelation 20:5 says: "the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished", meaning that the "first resurrection" will be the same, physical type of resurrection as will occur sometime after the still-future 1,000 years (Revelation 20:7-15). For not every dead person is going to be non-physically resurrected in the sense of becoming saved (Revelation 20:15), and Revelation 20:5 means that the rest of the dead (i.e. all of the non-Christian dead of all times) will be resurrected in the same manner that Christians will be resurrected in Revelation 20:4-6, but the rest of the dead will not be resurrected until sometime after the still-future 1,000 years.

Also, the "first resurrection" in Revelation 20:4-6 will be physical because it will not occur until Jesus Christ's future, Second Coming (Revelation 19:7 to 20:6). And the resurrection of the Church which will occur at that time will be a physical resurrection, just as Jesus' resurrection on the third day after His death was a physical resurrection (Luke 24:39,46; 1 Corinthians 15:21-23,52-58, Philippians 3:20-21, Romans 8:23-25; 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18).

jgr said in post #81:

Luke 19:11-27 is a parable about Christian stewardship. It has nothing to do with a millennium or literal cities.

It does.

For even though Luke 19:17-19 is part of a parable, its principle of Jesus Christ giving obedient Christians rulership over parts of the earth will still be fulfilled literally, after Jesus physically returns from heaven and sets up the Millennial aspect of His Kingdom (Luke 19:15); just as verses like Revelation 2:26-29, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 19:28, Luke 22:30, Zechariah 14:8-21, Psalms 72:8-11, Psalms 66:3-4, and Micah 4:1-4 will be fulfilled at that time.

Jesus Christ will physically reign on the earth during the still-future 1,000 years of Revelation 20:2-6. For the 1,000 years of Revelation 20:2-6, a time period commonly called the Millennium, will not begin until after Jesus' future, Second Coming (Revelation 19:7 to 20:6), when He will physically land on the earth and rule it from Jerusalem (Zechariah 14:4-21). And because Jesus will reign physically on the earth during the Millennium, so will the physically resurrected Church. For the physically resurrected Church (of all times) will reign with Jesus during the Millennium (Revelation 20:4-6). And so in Revelation 5:10 the reference to the Church reigning in the future "on the earth" includes the Millennium. Also, in Revelation 2:26-29 the reigning of the Church physically over the nations can refer to the Millennium. There is no reason to exclude the Millennium from Revelation 5:10 or Revelation 2:26-29, just as there is no reason to exclude the earth from the Millennium in Revelation 20:4-6.

Also, the Church will reign forever on the future, New Earth, as in a new surface for the earth. For the Church will reign forever in the literal city of New Jerusalem (Revelation 22:5, Revelation 21:10 to 22:5), which will descend from heaven to the New Earth (Revelation 21:1-3, Revelation 21:10) sometime after the future Millennium and subsequent events (Revelation 20:7 to 21:3).

jgr said in post #81:

There is no future Tribulation.

There is.

For just as the highly detailed Tribulation events of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 have never been fulfilled, so the Tribulation events of Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21 have never been fulfilled. For example, Luke 21:24 refers to the same, future treading down of Jerusalem by the Gentiles as Revelation 11:2b, during the future Antichrist's literal, 42-month worldwide reign (Revelation 13:5-18), the details of which time period are shown from four different angles in Revelation chapters 11 to 14 (Revelation 11:2b-3, Revelation 12:6,14, Revelation 13:5,7, Revelation 14:9-13). The myriad details of these chapters have never been fulfilled. Similarly, Jesus Christ's Second Coming and the Church's gathering together (rapture) in Matthew 24:30-31 (2 Thessalonians 2:1-8; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17) have never been fulfilled, but must occur "immediately after" the future Tribulation of Matthew 24, Mark 13, Luke 21, and Revelation chapters 6 to 18 (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:2 to 20:6).
 
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jgr

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Note that because the future Antichrist will fulfill Daniel 11:31 antitypically (Matthew 24:15), and will fulfill Daniel 11:36 for the first and only time (2 Thessalonians 2:4), he will also fulfill all of Daniel 11:21-45 (the first part antitypically, and the rest for the first and only time) when he arises on the world stage. For that passage refers to the career of the same man.

Also, no man ever sat in the Jewish temple in Jerusalem and proclaimed himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36,31, cf. Matthew 24:15), just as no man ever fulfilled other detailed references to the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the "beast") in Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 16:2-16, Revelation 19:19-21, and 2 Thessalonians 2:8-9. Any mistaken teaching which says that the Antichrist has already come and gone could be employed in our future by the real Antichrist to fool some Christians into thinking that he is not the Antichrist.

The Antichrist will fulfill 2 Thessalonians 2:4 after he by force takes control of a future, third Jewish temple in Jerusalem, stops the daily Mosaic animal sacrifices which the ultra-Orthodox Jews will have restarted in front of it, and has the abomination of desolation (possibly a standing, android image of the Antichrist) set up in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of the temple (Daniel 11:31,36, Matthew 24:15).

The Antichrist could then make quite a show of his sitting himself in the temple and declaring himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36,31). In a television and internet spectacle which will be seen live by the world, he could first be shown entering the temple's most holy place in magnificent golden robes. He could then step up to the Ark of the Covenant (which could have been discovered, and placed in the temple by the Jews) and lift the Mercy Seat off of the Ark, showing it to be empty. He could then look into the camera and say: "Where is YHWH? He is not here! He is a distant fraud! His power on this earth is as hollow as this empty Ark!" (The Antichrist will utterly revile YHWH: Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:36.)

Then the Antichrist could raise the Mercy Seat high above his head only to suddenly smash it down violently to the ground, breaking it into pieces. The piped-in sound of crowds roaring with approval could then be heard in the background. Then the Antichrist could place his hands on the Ark and stare into the camera: "WE can do better than this". He could then knock over the Ark and stamp it with his foot, bashing in its side. Two of the Antichrist's followers in robes could then quickly come in and clear away the rubble of the Mercy Seat and the Ark, while four strong men in robes carry into the temple's most holy place a magnificent golden throne and place it right where the Ark had been before. The men could then bow down and motion with their arms for the Antichrist to sit on the throne. He could then grandly take his seat upon it.

Glorious symphonic music could then swell as the sound of crowds roaring with approval increases. Then the Antichrist's False Prophet (of Revelation 19:20) (who could be an apostate pope) could enter the temple's most holy place and approach the Antichrist carrying a majestic golden crown encrusted with large diamonds and all kinds of precious stones. The Antichrist could then take the crown from the pope's outstretched hands. And as the Antichrist is placing the crown on his own head, a camera could slowly zoom in on his face as he says in a deep voice: "I AM THAT I AM. I AM YOUR GOD. WORSHIP ME, ALL YE NATIONS OF THE EARTH!"

(Compare Revelation 13:8, Daniel 11:36; 2 Thessalonians 2:4)



Again, in Daniel 9:26 the original Hebrew word (karath: H3772) translated as "cut off" can refer to when a peace treaty/covenant is "made" (Genesis 21:27).



Any person is an antichrist who denies that Jesus of Nazareth is the Christ (1 John 2:22), or denies that Jesus is the human/divine Son of God (1 John 2:22b), or denies that Christ is in the flesh (2 John 1:7). The spirit of antichrist which will animate the future Antichrist has been working since the first century AD (1 John 4:3; 2 Thessalonians 2:7a) animating many antichrists since that time (2 John 1:7).

But the existence of many antichrists (1 John 2:18) does not contradict that there will be an individual man (2 Thessalonians 2:3-4,9, Revelation 13:4-18) who is commonly called the Antichrist; just as on the side of good, the existence of many sons of God (John 1:12) does not contradict that there is an individual man, Jesus Christ of Nazareth, who is the Son of God (John 20:31).

Also, the idea of the individual-man Antichrist does not have to be explicitly referred to in the Bible as "the Antichrist" for it to be true and supported by the Bible; just as, for example, the idea of the Trinity does not have to be explicitly referred to in the Bible as "the Trinity" for it to be true and supported by the Bible (e.g. Matthew 28:19, John 1:1,14, Acts 5:3-4).

The man commonly called the Antichrist will be the fulfillment of the individual "man of sin" (2 Thessalonians 2:3) who will sit (at least one time) in a future, third Jewish temple building in Jerusalem and proclaim himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36). He will fulfill the individual "man" aspect of the "beast" who will come (Revelation 13:18) and bring the world into the conscious and open worship of Lucifer (Satan, the dragon) and himself (Revelation 13:4,8, Revelation 12:9). He will rule the earth for 3.5 literal years (Revelation 13:5-10, Daniel 7:25, Daniel 12:7) and will have a miracle-working False Prophet (Revelation 19:20, Revelation 16:13) who by amazing, Satanic miracles (2 Thessalonians 2:9b), such as calling fire down from heaven (Revelation 13:13), will deceive the people of the world into worshipping a speaking (possibly an android) image of the Antichrist (Revelation 13:15) and receiving a mark of the Antichrist's name or gematrial name-number (666) on their right hand or forehead (Revelation 13:16-18). The Antichrist and his False Prophet will be ultimately cast into the lake of fire at Jesus Christ's future, Second Coming (Revelation 19:20), while at that time Satan will be bound in the Bottomless Pit for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:1-3). None of these things has happened yet.

Any mistaken teaching which claims that the Antichrist has already come and gone could be employed in our future by the real Antichrist to fool some Christians into thinking that he is not the Antichrist.

The idea of a future, individual-man Antichrist was correctly recognized in the Bible by the Church from early on. Irenaeus (born c. 140 AD) used the term: "speaking of Antichrist, [Paul] says, 'who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped'" (Against Heresies 3:6:5; 2 Thessalonians 2:4); "...by means of the events which shall occur in the time of Antichrist is it shown that he, being an apostate and a robber, is anxious to be adored as God" (Against Heresies 5:25:1; 2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36, Revelation 13:8); "...when this Antichrist shall have devastated all things in this world, he will reign for three years and six months, and sit in the temple at Jerusalem" (Against Heresies 5:30:4b; Revelation 13:5; 2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 7:25, Daniel 12:7); "...the number of the name of the beast ... the name of Antichrist" (Against Heresies 5:30:1; Revelation 13:17c-18).

The gematrial numerical values of the letters in the Antichrist's personal name will add up to six hundred and sixty-six (Revelation 13:17c-18).



Whereas there is the non-physical resurrection of initial salvation (e.g. Ephesians 2:5-6), the "first resurrection" in Revelation 20:4-6 will be physical (cf. Romans 8:23). For Revelation 20:5 says: "the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished", meaning that the "first resurrection" will be the same, physical type of resurrection as will occur sometime after the still-future 1,000 years (Revelation 20:7-15). For not every dead person is going to be non-physically resurrected in the sense of becoming saved (Revelation 20:15), and Revelation 20:5 means that the rest of the dead (i.e. all of the non-Christian dead of all times) will be resurrected in the same manner that Christians will be resurrected in Revelation 20:4-6, but the rest of the dead will not be resurrected until sometime after the still-future 1,000 years.

Also, the "first resurrection" in Revelation 20:4-6 will be physical because it will not occur until Jesus Christ's future, Second Coming (Revelation 19:7 to 20:6). And the resurrection of the Church which will occur at that time will be a physical resurrection, just as Jesus' resurrection on the third day after His death was a physical resurrection (Luke 24:39,46; 1 Corinthians 15:21-23,52-58, Philippians 3:20-21, Romans 8:23-25; 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18).



It does.

For even though Luke 19:17-19 is part of a parable, its principle of Jesus Christ giving obedient Christians rulership over parts of the earth will still be fulfilled literally, after Jesus physically returns from heaven and sets up the Millennial aspect of His Kingdom (Luke 19:15); just as verses like Revelation 2:26-29, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 19:28, Luke 22:30, Zechariah 14:8-21, Psalms 72:8-11, Psalms 66:3-4, and Micah 4:1-4 will be fulfilled at that time.

Jesus Christ will physically reign on the earth during the still-future 1,000 years of Revelation 20:2-6. For the 1,000 years of Revelation 20:2-6, a time period commonly called the Millennium, will not begin until after Jesus' future, Second Coming (Revelation 19:7 to 20:6), when He will physically land on the earth and rule it from Jerusalem (Zechariah 14:4-21). And because Jesus will reign physically on the earth during the Millennium, so will the physically resurrected Church. For the physically resurrected Church (of all times) will reign with Jesus during the Millennium (Revelation 20:4-6). And so in Revelation 5:10 the reference to the Church reigning in the future "on the earth" includes the Millennium. Also, in Revelation 2:26-29 the reigning of the Church physically over the nations can refer to the Millennium. There is no reason to exclude the Millennium from Revelation 5:10 or Revelation 2:26-29, just as there is no reason to exclude the earth from the Millennium in Revelation 20:4-6.

Also, the Church will reign forever on the future, New Earth, as in a new surface for the earth. For the Church will reign forever in the literal city of New Jerusalem (Revelation 22:5, Revelation 21:10 to 22:5), which will descend from heaven to the New Earth (Revelation 21:1-3, Revelation 21:10) sometime after the future Millennium and subsequent events (Revelation 20:7 to 21:3).



There is.

For just as the highly detailed Tribulation events of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 have never been fulfilled, so the Tribulation events of Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21 have never been fulfilled. For example, Luke 21:24 refers to the same, future treading down of Jerusalem by the Gentiles as Revelation 11:2b, during the future Antichrist's literal, 42-month worldwide reign (Revelation 13:5-18), the details of which time period are shown from four different angles in Revelation chapters 11 to 14 (Revelation 11:2b-3, Revelation 12:6,14, Revelation 13:5,7, Revelation 14:9-13). The myriad details of these chapters have never been fulfilled. Similarly, Jesus Christ's Second Coming and the Church's gathering together (rapture) in Matthew 24:30-31 (2 Thessalonians 2:1-8; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17) have never been fulfilled, but must occur "immediately after" the future Tribulation of Matthew 24, Mark 13, Luke 21, and Revelation chapters 6 to 18 (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:2 to 20:6).

Let's consider a different perspective.

Who, in the historical true Christian Church before the 19th century, interpreted the entirety of Matthew 24 to lie wholly within the future?

Also, still awaiting those video responses.
 
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jgr said in post #84:

Who, in the historical true Christian Church before the 19th century, interpreted the entirety of Matthew 24 to lie wholly within the future?

Note that it has to be future, because it has never been fulfilled.

For example, the end of the second Jewish temple building (also called Herod's temple building) in Jerusalem in 70 AD did not fulfill Matthew 24:2. For the stones of the second temple's Wailing Wall (also called the Western Wall) still stand today one on top of the other, just as they did when Jesus Christ spoke that prophecy. Matthew 24:2 included the Wailing Wall, for Matthew 24:2 was referring not only to the single, second temple building which stood in the center of the Temple Mount, and which contained the holy place and the most holy place, but was referring to "all these things", all the plural "buildings"/structures/oikodome (G3619) of the entire second temple complex (Matthew 24:1).

Indeed, Matthew 24:2 could even have been spoken just to the north and west of the Wailing Wall. For it was spoken right after Jesus Christ had departed from the temple complex (Matthew 24:1). And one of the main temple-complex exits (called Wilson's Arch and bridge by archaeologists) was just to the north of the Wailing Wall, and at the same level as the top of the Temple Mount (see the temple-complex map-insert in the December, 2008 issue of National Geographic magazine).

Also, in Matthew 24:2 the "here" can include not just the entire second temple complex, but every structure throughout Jerusalem. For the similar statement in Luke 19:44 applied to the whole city (Luke 19:41-44). Matthew 24:2 and Luke 19:44 could be fulfilled at the very end of the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, right before and at Jesus Christ's future, Second Coming (Zechariah 14:2-21, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6).

At the very end of the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, the Antichrist (Daniel 11:45) and the world's armies will pillage Jerusalem, right before Jesus Christ's Second Coming (Zechariah 14:2-21). And at the Second Coming, there will be tremendous earth changes in the vicinity of Jerusalem (Zechariah 14:4-5). These events could result in all of Jerusalem's structures, including the third temple and the Wailing Wall (also called the Western Wall), being broken down so that not one stone will be left upon another (Luke 19:44, Matthew 24:2). Then the returned Jesus (Zechariah 14:4, Acts 1:11-12) will rebuild Jerusalem and make it the capital of the world (Zechariah 14:8-19, Micah 4:1-4). He will also build a fourth temple there (Zechariah 14:20-21, Zechariah 6:12-13). It will serve a similar function for the Church during the future Millennium (of Revelation 20:4-6) as the second temple served for the Church in the first century AD (Luke 24:53, Acts 2:46, Acts 22:17) and as the temple building in heaven (Revelation 11:19) serves for those in heaven (Revelation 7:15).

jgr said in post #84:

Who, in the historical true Christian Church before the 19th century, interpreted the entirety of Matthew 24 to lie wholly within the future?

Matthew 24:3 . . . what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

Here the original Greek word (G0165) translated as "world" can be translated as "age" (Ephesians 2:7, Colossians 1:26).

It is sometimes claimed that the end of the age refers to the end of the Old Covenant age in 70 AD. But the time of the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law ended not at the destruction of the second Jewish temple in Jerusalem in 70 AD, but decades earlier, at the moment that Jesus Christ died on the Cross (Matthew 27:50-51a) and abolished the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Ephesians 2:15-16, Colossians 2:14-17, Romans 7:6; 2 Corinthians 3:6-18, Hebrews 7:18-19), which was the same moment that He brought the New Covenant into effect (Matthew 26:28, Hebrews 9:15-17, Hebrews 10:19-20, Matthew 27:51a). So there was no transition period, no overlap at all (Hebrews 10:9b, Hebrews 7:12), between the time of the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law and the time of the New Covenant.

Also, while the apostles of the Church asked Jesus Christ about the end of the age (Matthew 24:3), He did not tell them that the end of the age would occur at the destruction of the second Jewish temple, or (as is sometimes claimed) before the future Tribulation of Matthew 24 and Revelation chapters 6 to 18, or even at the end of the Tribulation, that is, at Jesus' post-tribulation, Second Coming (Matthew 24:29-31), or when the end of the age would occur, just as Jesus did not tell His apostles other things during His ministry (John 16:12). It would not be until later that Jesus would show the apostle John, through the vision in the book of Revelation (given about 95 AD: Irenaeus, Against Heresies 5:30:3c), that the end of the age, when all non-Christians of all times will be cast into the eternal suffering of the lake of fire and brimstone (Matthew 13:40, Matthew 25:41, Revelation 20:15), will not occur until over 1,000 years after Jesus' future, Second Coming (Revelation 19:7 to 20:15).
 
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Note that it has to be future, because it has never been fulfilled.

For example, the end of the second Jewish temple building (also called Herod's temple building) in Jerusalem in 70 AD did not fulfill Matthew 24:2. For the stones of the second temple's Wailing Wall (also called the Western Wall) still stand today one on top of the other, just as they did when Jesus Christ spoke that prophecy. Matthew 24:2 included the Wailing Wall, for Matthew 24:2 was referring not only to the single, second temple building which stood in the center of the Temple Mount, and which contained the holy place and the most holy place, but was referring to "all these things", all the plural "buildings"/structures/oikodome (G3619) of the entire second temple complex (Matthew 24:1).

Indeed, Matthew 24:2 could even have been spoken just to the north and west of the Wailing Wall. For it was spoken right after Jesus Christ had departed from the temple complex (Matthew 24:1). And one of the main temple-complex exits (called Wilson's Arch and bridge by archaeologists) was just to the north of the Wailing Wall, and at the same level as the top of the Temple Mount (see the temple-complex map-insert in the December, 2008 issue of National Geographic magazine).

Also, in Matthew 24:2 the "here" can include not just the entire second temple complex, but every structure throughout Jerusalem. For the similar statement in Luke 19:44 applied to the whole city (Luke 19:41-44). Matthew 24:2 and Luke 19:44 could be fulfilled at the very end of the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, right before and at Jesus Christ's future, Second Coming (Zechariah 14:2-21, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6).

At the very end of the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, the Antichrist (Daniel 11:45) and the world's armies will pillage Jerusalem, right before Jesus Christ's Second Coming (Zechariah 14:2-21). And at the Second Coming, there will be tremendous earth changes in the vicinity of Jerusalem (Zechariah 14:4-5). These events could result in all of Jerusalem's structures, including the third temple and the Wailing Wall (also called the Western Wall), being broken down so that not one stone will be left upon another (Luke 19:44, Matthew 24:2). Then the returned Jesus (Zechariah 14:4, Acts 1:11-12) will rebuild Jerusalem and make it the capital of the world (Zechariah 14:8-19, Micah 4:1-4). He will also build a fourth temple there (Zechariah 14:20-21, Zechariah 6:12-13). It will serve a similar function for the Church during the future Millennium (of Revelation 20:4-6) as the second temple served for the Church in the first century AD (Luke 24:53, Acts 2:46, Acts 22:17) and as the temple building in heaven (Revelation 11:19) serves for those in heaven (Revelation 7:15).



Matthew 24:3 . . . what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

Here the original Greek word (G0165) translated as "world" can be translated as "age" (Ephesians 2:7, Colossians 1:26).

It is sometimes claimed that the end of the age refers to the end of the Old Covenant age in 70 AD. But the time of the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law ended not at the destruction of the second Jewish temple in Jerusalem in 70 AD, but decades earlier, at the moment that Jesus Christ died on the Cross (Matthew 27:50-51a) and abolished the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Ephesians 2:15-16, Colossians 2:14-17, Romans 7:6; 2 Corinthians 3:6-18, Hebrews 7:18-19), which was the same moment that He brought the New Covenant into effect (Matthew 26:28, Hebrews 9:15-17, Hebrews 10:19-20, Matthew 27:51a). So there was no transition period, no overlap at all (Hebrews 10:9b, Hebrews 7:12), between the time of the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law and the time of the New Covenant.

Also, while the apostles of the Church asked Jesus Christ about the end of the age (Matthew 24:3), He did not tell them that the end of the age would occur at the destruction of the second Jewish temple, or (as is sometimes claimed) before the future Tribulation of Matthew 24 and Revelation chapters 6 to 18, or even at the end of the Tribulation, that is, at Jesus' post-tribulation, Second Coming (Matthew 24:29-31), or when the end of the age would occur, just as Jesus did not tell His apostles other things during His ministry (John 16:12). It would not be until later that Jesus would show the apostle John, through the vision in the book of Revelation (given about 95 AD: Irenaeus, Against Heresies 5:30:3c), that the end of the age, when all non-Christians of all times will be cast into the eternal suffering of the lake of fire and brimstone (Matthew 13:40, Matthew 25:41, Revelation 20:15), will not occur until over 1,000 years after Jesus' future, Second Coming (Revelation 19:7 to 20:15).

You didn't answer the question, so I'll repeat it.

Who, in the historical true Christian Church before the 19th century, interpreted the entirety of Matthew 24 to lie wholly within the future?

Also, still awaiting those video responses.
 
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jgr said in post #86:

Who, in the historical true Christian Church before the 19th century, interpreted the entirety of Matthew 24 to lie wholly within the future?

Note that the prophesied events of Matthew 24 have to be future to us, because they have never been fulfilled, just as Revelation chapters 6 to 22 have never been fulfilled.

Also, Matthew 24:34 refers to the fulfillment of "all these things", all of the events of the future Tribulation, and Jesus Christ's Second Coming and the gathering together (rapture) of the Church "immediately after" the Tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31; cf. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17, Revelation 19:2 to 20:6), which events Jesus had just finished describing in Matthew 24:2-31, and which He would later show in great detail in Revelation chapters 6 to 19. Matthew 24:34 did not mean that the Tribulation, Second Coming, and rapture would be fulfilled during the temporal generation alive at the time of Jesus' first coming, in the first century AD. For none of those things was fulfilled during that temporal generation.

Instead, Matthew 24:34 can mean that the temporal generation which would see the 1948 AD reestablishment of Israel, which could be symbolized by the rebudding of the fig tree (Matthew 24:32-34; cf. Matthew 21:19,43, Hosea 9:10, Joel 1:6-7, Luke 13:6-9), will not pass, that is, will not die off completely, until the future Tribulation and Second Coming of Matthew 24 and Revelation chapters 6 to 19 are fulfilled. A temporal generation may not pass until 80 years (Psalms 90:10), or 120 years (Genesis 6:3).

This does not require that Jesus Christ's future, Second Coming will occur right before, like one year before, that generation will pass: that is, 79, or 119 years after 1948: in 2027, or 2067. And if the Tribulation which will immediately precede the Second Coming and rapture (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6) will last seven years (Daniel 9:27), the Tribulation's first year will not have to be in 2021, or 2061, but could be in a future year (e.g. 2020) earlier than 2021.

Matthew 24:34 could also include the meaning that the figurative, all-times generation of the elect (Matthew 24:22, Luke 16:8b; 1 Peter 2:9, Colossians 3:12; 1 Thessalonians 1:4) will not pass away from the earth during the future Tribulation of Matthew 24 and Revelation chapters 6 to 18, but that some elect people will survive (Matthew 24:22) until Jesus Christ's future, Second Coming (1 Thessalonians 4:15-17; 1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-53), which will occur immediately after the Tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6).

jgr said in post #86:

Who, in the historical true Christian Church before the 19th century, interpreted the entirety of Matthew 24 to lie wholly within the future?

That brings to mind the claim (which is sometimes put forth) that premillennialism is a modern invention.

But that is not the case, for premillennialism was the teaching of the early Church (see Papias) subsequent to the apostle John's writing down of the book of Revelation, based on the clear prophecy of Revelation 19:7 to 20:6, which shows that the Millennium will occur after Jesus Christ's future, Second Coming. Amillennialism was an error which did not crop up until later. The Biblical truth of premillennialism was recovered in relatively modern times when a significant part of the Church became interested again in eschatology, and Christians could search the Bible for themselves and see that premillennialism is true, as opposed to during the centuries when the amillennial RCC hierarchy kept the Bible from Christians and simply told them what to believe.

The apostle John's prophecies in the book of Revelation were originally sent to the first century AD Church (Revelation chapters 1-3), which probably expected all of his prophecies to be fulfilled shortly thereafter (shortly from the viewpoint of humans, not God). But when the book of Revelation's future prophecies (Revelation 4:1b) in chapters 6 to 22 did not happen right away, as the centuries passed the Church began to pay less and less attention to the book of Revelation. It is only in modern times that a significant portion of the Church has become interested again in the book of Revelation and the future fulfillment of (its never fulfilled) chapters 6 to 22, so that, in effect, the apostle John is, through the enduring book of Revelation, "prophesying again" (Revelation 10:11), this time to the modern Church, just as he prophesied originally to the early Church.
 
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Note that the prophesied events of Matthew 24 have to be future to us, because they have never been fulfilled, just as Revelation chapters 6 to 22 have never been fulfilled.

Also, Matthew 24:34 refers to the fulfillment of "all these things", all of the events of the future Tribulation, and Jesus Christ's Second Coming and the gathering together (rapture) of the Church "immediately after" the Tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31; cf. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17, Revelation 19:2 to 20:6), which events Jesus had just finished describing in Matthew 24:2-31, and which He would later show in great detail in Revelation chapters 6 to 19. Matthew 24:34 did not mean that the Tribulation, Second Coming, and rapture would be fulfilled during the temporal generation alive at the time of Jesus' first coming, in the first century AD. For none of those things was fulfilled during that temporal generation.

Instead, Matthew 24:34 can mean that the temporal generation which would see the 1948 AD reestablishment of Israel, which could be symbolized by the rebudding of the fig tree (Matthew 24:32-34; cf. Matthew 21:19,43, Hosea 9:10, Joel 1:6-7, Luke 13:6-9), will not pass, that is, will not die off completely, until the future Tribulation and Second Coming of Matthew 24 and Revelation chapters 6 to 19 are fulfilled. A temporal generation may not pass until 80 years (Psalms 90:10), or 120 years (Genesis 6:3).

This does not require that Jesus Christ's future, Second Coming will occur right before, like one year before, that generation will pass: that is, 79, or 119 years after 1948: in 2027, or 2067. And if the Tribulation which will immediately precede the Second Coming and rapture (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6) will last seven years (Daniel 9:27), the Tribulation's first year will not have to be in 2021, or 2061, but could be in a future year (e.g. 2020) earlier than 2021.

Matthew 24:34 could also include the meaning that the figurative, all-times generation of the elect (Matthew 24:22, Luke 16:8b; 1 Peter 2:9, Colossians 3:12; 1 Thessalonians 1:4) will not pass away from the earth during the future Tribulation of Matthew 24 and Revelation chapters 6 to 18, but that some elect people will survive (Matthew 24:22) until Jesus Christ's future, Second Coming (1 Thessalonians 4:15-17; 1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-53), which will occur immediately after the Tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6).



That brings to mind the claim (which is sometimes put forth) that premillennialism is a modern invention.

But that is not the case, for premillennialism was the teaching of the early Church (see Papias) subsequent to the apostle John's writing down of the book of Revelation, based on the clear prophecy of Revelation 19:7 to 20:6, which shows that the Millennium will occur after Jesus Christ's future, Second Coming. Amillennialism was an error which did not crop up until later. The Biblical truth of premillennialism was recovered in relatively modern times when a significant part of the Church became interested again in eschatology, and Christians could search the Bible for themselves and see that premillennialism is true, as opposed to during the centuries when the amillennial RCC hierarchy kept the Bible from Christians and simply told them what to believe.

The apostle John's prophecies in the book of Revelation were originally sent to the first century AD Church (Revelation chapters 1-3), which probably expected all of his prophecies to be fulfilled shortly thereafter (shortly from the viewpoint of humans, not God). But when the book of Revelation's future prophecies (Revelation 4:1b) in chapters 6 to 22 did not happen right away, as the centuries passed the Church began to pay less and less attention to the book of Revelation. It is only in modern times that a significant portion of the Church has become interested again in the book of Revelation and the future fulfillment of (its never fulfilled) chapters 6 to 22, so that, in effect, the apostle John is, through the enduring book of Revelation, "prophesying again" (Revelation 10:11), this time to the modern Church, just as he prophesied originally to the early Church.

The evidence is conclusive.

Some historical authors futurized some portions of Matthew 24.

But no historical author in eighteen centuries of the historical true Church futurized the entirety of Matthew 24.

Such futurization is solely a characteristic of modernist futurism.


Also, still awaiting those video responses.
 
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jgr said in post #88:

The evidence is conclusive.

Note that it is the lack of evidence that is conclusive, in the sense of there being no historical evidence of the fulfillment of the prophecies of Matthew 24, just as there no historical evidence of the fulfillment of the prophecies of Revelation chapters 6 to 18, which refer to the same Tribulation as Matthew 24, immediately after which Jesus' Second Coming must occur (Matthew 24:29-31, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6).

For example, there is no historical evidence of the fulfillment of the worldwide institution of the religion of the Antichrist (Revelation 13:4-18).

And Christians need to be aware that during the future Antichrist's literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:4-18), even though the world will consciously and openly worship Lucifer (Satan, the dragon) and the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") (Revelation 13:4-8, Revelation 12:9), this will not require that the Antichrist's one-world religion will say that Jesus is evil, or will turn the world against Jesus. For almost the entire world reveres Jesus, at least as being a good man. The Antichrist could confirm this basic world belief, but simply (in his words) "clarify" that while Jesus is indeed a good man, he is not the Christ or the Son of God (1 John 2:22). No doubt the Antichrist will also deny that Jesus suffered and died on the Cross for our sins, as this, just as believing that Jesus is the Christ and the Son of God (John 20:31, John 3:36), is one of the core beliefs of the Gospel by which people become saved from hell (1 Corinthians 15:1-4).

So what the Antichrist could do is keep the idea of a good Jesus, but strip it of everything by which Jesus saves people from hell. And this would not require that the Antichrist deny Jesus' Second Coming. Indeed, the Antichrist and his False Prophet (of Revelation 19:20) could even try to employ to their own ends the Biblical prophecy of Jesus' Second Coming, as well as the Muslim prophecy which says that the miracle-working prophet Jesus will return bodily from heaven in the last days to bring the whole earth into the worship of the true God. For the False Prophet could claim that he is Jesus returned (via "reincarnation"). And he could perform amazing miracles (Revelation 13:13) as purported proof of his claim (cf. John 3:2). This is one reason why it is important to know when and how the real Jesus' Second Coming will occur (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8; 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6, Zechariah 14:3-21).

Once the False Prophet by his amazing miracles has brought the world under his spell (Revelation 13:13-18, Revelation 19:20), including many Muslims and Christians who may not care much for scriptural dogma, but could go wild over his signs and wonders, he could begin to (in his words) "restore to the world the real message which was spoken by me (Jesus) at my first coming, and by the great prophet Mohammed, but which message became corrupted by power-hungry men when they copied and changed the early manuscripts of the Bible and the Koran". He could then gradually initiate the world into the Antichrist's Gnostic Luciferianism (1 John 4:3, Revelation 13:4-6), also called Satanism, a religion which could have existed since ancient times in some "mystery" cults, and which still exists today in the highest degree of initiation of a worldwide secret society. The False Prophet could present his miraculously calling fire down from heaven (Revelation 13:13) as purported proof that Lucifer (the dragon, Satan) and the Antichrist are the true God (Revelation 13:4-8, Revelation 12:9), in an inversion of how back in Old Testament times the prophet Elijah miraculously called fire down from heaven to prove that YHWH is the true God (1 Kings 18:37-39).

The person whom the Antichrist will revile is YHWH (Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:36), whom many people mistakenly think of as being (in their words) "the God of only the Old Testament, that cruel and hateful God who commanded people to commit genocide and to kill babies (1 Samuel 15:3), whereas Jesus came and preached love for everyone (Matthew 5:44)". The truth is that Jesus Christ confirmed that the God of the Old Testament, YHWH (Deuteronomy 6:4-5, Leviticus 19:18), is the same as the God of the New Testament (Mark 12:29-31), and that the Old Testament is true (Matthew 5:17-18, Luke 24:44-48). Jesus suffered and died for our sins in fulfillment of Old Testament prophecy from YHWH (Isaiah 53; 1 Peter 2:24). And He rose from the dead in fulfillment of Old Testament prophecy from YHWH (e.g. Psalms 16:10, Acts 2:31). Jesus died to establish the New Covenant (Matthew 26:28), which YHWH had foretold in the Old Testament (Jeremiah 31:31-34). And Jesus died to bring about the defeat of Satan (Hebrews 2:14), which YHWH had foretold from even the first book of the Old Testament (Genesis 3:15).

Nonetheless, building on many people's misconceptions of YHWH as being (in their words) "the cruel God of the Old Testament", no doubt one of the future Antichrist's chief blasphemies against YHWH (Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:36) will be that YHWH is an evil god. This is one of the ancient blasphemies of Gnosticism, another being the antichrist lie that Christ is not in the flesh (2 John 1:7). The world will be deceived into completely rejecting YHWH, and worshipping Satan and the Antichrist instead (Revelation 13:4-8, Revelation 12:9). But Satan might not be worshipped as "Satan", which almost everyone sees as a bad name (it means "Adversary"), but as "Lucifer" (Isaiah 14:12), which means "the morning star". The Antichrist could falsely say that it is YHWH who is the true "Satan", the true "Adversary" of mankind. And the Antichrist could claim that even 2 Samuel 24:1 and 1 Chronicles 21:1 together prove this by showing that it was the single entity of YHWH/Satan who moved King David to number Israel. Of course, the truth is that 2 Samuel 24:1 and 1 Chronicles 21:1 together simply mean that YHWH used Satan to move David. YHWH elsewhere rebuked Satan (Zechariah 3:2), so they are in no way the same person.

Because the Antichrist and his False Prophet (possibly masquerading as Jesus) will deny that Jesus is the Christ (1 John 2:22), and will deny that Christ is in the flesh (1 John 4:3), and because they will bring the unsaved world into the worship of Lucifer (Satan, the dragon) instead (Revelation 13:4, Revelation 12:9), they could falsely say that (the non-mortal flesh) Lucifer is the Christ, that the new name of Christ (Revelation 3:12c) is "Lucifer Christ". For just as "Lucifer" means "the morning star", so Christ is the morning star (Revelation 22:16b). Also, Christ identified himself with the serpent (John 3:14), and Lucifer is the serpent (Revelation 12:9). Also, Christ said: "Ye are gods" (John 10:34), and it was the serpent who said: "ye shall be as gods" (Genesis 3:5).

But the truth is that Lucifer fell from his office of morning star (Isaiah 14:12), and became Satan (cf. Luke 10:18). Jesus Christ has taken over the office of morning star (Revelation 22:16). And Jesus Christ identified Himself only with the brass serpent on the pole in Numbers 21:8-9 (John 3:14), which typified Jesus Christ's crucifixion for our sins (John 19:16, Matthew 26:28). And in John 10:34, Jesus Christ (John 20:31) was quoting YHWH in Psalms 82:6-7, which shows that even though humans have knowledge of good and evil as gods do (Genesis 3:22), they will still die like humans (Psalms 82:7), contradicting the serpent's lie (Genesis 3:4). Nonetheless, the Antichrist could falsely say that Lucifer is the Christ and the true and beneficent God of mankind, and that the False Prophet is the miracle-working prophet Jesus (cf. John 3:2, Acts 3:22-24) returned to point the world to the true Christ/God. The Antichrist could falsely say that he (the Antichrist) is the human/divine "Son" of Lucifer, who must be worshipped as God along with Lucifer (Revelation 13:4,8). This would be similar to how Biblical Christians rightly worship the human/divine Jesus Christ (John 1:1,14) as YHWH God (the Son) along with YHWH God the Father (John 20:28, Hebrews 1:8).

Near the end of the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, unclean spirits like frogs will come out of the mouths of Lucifer, the Antichrist, and the False Prophet (Revelation 16:13). And these unclean spirits like frogs will go forth and perform amazing miracles to convince the world's armies to gather together at Armageddon (Har Megiddo: Mount Megiddo in northern Israel) (Revelation 16:16) in an attempt to fight and defeat YHWH Himself (Revelation 16:14, Revelation 19:19). After gathering together at Armageddon, the armies will travel south and pillage Jerusalem, right before the real Jesus (who is YHWH: John 10:30) returns from heaven and defeats them completely (Zechariah 14:2-21, Revelation 19:20 to 20:3).

So the Second Coming of Jesus Christ will be a total shock to the world. The world will have been expecting to wage war against some evil Old Testament god named "YHWH" with the help of the good Jesus (played by the False Prophet), and with the help of the true and beneficent Christ/God (played by Lucifer), and with the help of the good Son of God (played by the Antichrist), and with the help of the good angels of God (played by the fallen angels of Lucifer: Revelation 12:9). But then, instead of some evil god appearing in the sky, the world could see the glorious sign of the Cross (cf. Matthew 24:30), the symbol of the good YHWH suffering and dying for our sins (Acts 20:28b). And then the world will see the glorious appearance of the real Jesus sitting on a white horse descending from the sky (Revelation 19:11-21).

When the people of the world realize at that moment how thoroughly they have been duped, and see in the sky the huge angelic armies (2 Thessalonians 1:7, Matthew 25:31) of the true Jesus, the true Christ, the true Son of God, and the good YHWH, who are all the one and the same Jesus Christ of Nazareth, then they could utterly mourn and wail for themselves (Matthew 24:30, Revelation 1:7), knowing in their spirits that Jesus has returned in wrath to destroy most of them for their unrepentant sins (2 Thessalonians 1:8-9, Revelation 19:15-21).
 
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Note that it is the lack of evidence that is conclusive, in the sense of there being no historical evidence of the fulfillment of the prophecies of Matthew 24, just as there no historical evidence of the fulfillment of the prophecies of Revelation chapters 6 to 18, which refer to the same Tribulation as Matthew 24, immediately after which Jesus' Second Coming must occur (Matthew 24:29-31, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6).

For example, there is no historical evidence of the fulfillment of the worldwide institution of the religion of the Antichrist (Revelation 13:4-18).

And Christians need to be aware that during the future Antichrist's literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:4-18), even though the world will consciously and openly worship Lucifer (Satan, the dragon) and the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") (Revelation 13:4-8, Revelation 12:9), this will not require that the Antichrist's one-world religion will say that Jesus is evil, or will turn the world against Jesus. For almost the entire world reveres Jesus, at least as being a good man. The Antichrist could confirm this basic world belief, but simply (in his words) "clarify" that while Jesus is indeed a good man, he is not the Christ or the Son of God (1 John 2:22). No doubt the Antichrist will also deny that Jesus suffered and died on the Cross for our sins, as this, just as believing that Jesus is the Christ and the Son of God (John 20:31, John 3:36), is one of the core beliefs of the Gospel by which people become saved from hell (1 Corinthians 15:1-4).

So what the Antichrist could do is keep the idea of a good Jesus, but strip it of everything by which Jesus saves people from hell. And this would not require that the Antichrist deny Jesus' Second Coming. Indeed, the Antichrist and his False Prophet (of Revelation 19:20) could even try to employ to their own ends the Biblical prophecy of Jesus' Second Coming, as well as the Muslim prophecy which says that the miracle-working prophet Jesus will return bodily from heaven in the last days to bring the whole earth into the worship of the true God. For the False Prophet could claim that he is Jesus returned (via "reincarnation"). And he could perform amazing miracles (Revelation 13:13) as purported proof of his claim (cf. John 3:2). This is one reason why it is important to know when and how the real Jesus' Second Coming will occur (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8; 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6, Zechariah 14:3-21).

Once the False Prophet by his amazing miracles has brought the world under his spell (Revelation 13:13-18, Revelation 19:20), including many Muslims and Christians who may not care much for scriptural dogma, but could go wild over his signs and wonders, he could begin to (in his words) "restore to the world the real message which was spoken by me (Jesus) at my first coming, and by the great prophet Mohammed, but which message became corrupted by power-hungry men when they copied and changed the early manuscripts of the Bible and the Koran". He could then gradually initiate the world into the Antichrist's Gnostic Luciferianism (1 John 4:3, Revelation 13:4-6), also called Satanism, a religion which could have existed since ancient times in some "mystery" cults, and which still exists today in the highest degree of initiation of a worldwide secret society. The False Prophet could present his miraculously calling fire down from heaven (Revelation 13:13) as purported proof that Lucifer (the dragon, Satan) and the Antichrist are the true God (Revelation 13:4-8, Revelation 12:9), in an inversion of how back in Old Testament times the prophet Elijah miraculously called fire down from heaven to prove that YHWH is the true God (1 Kings 18:37-39).

The person whom the Antichrist will revile is YHWH (Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:36), whom many people mistakenly think of as being (in their words) "the God of only the Old Testament, that cruel and hateful God who commanded people to commit genocide and to kill babies (1 Samuel 15:3), whereas Jesus came and preached love for everyone (Matthew 5:44)". The truth is that Jesus Christ confirmed that the God of the Old Testament, YHWH (Deuteronomy 6:4-5, Leviticus 19:18), is the same as the God of the New Testament (Mark 12:29-31), and that the Old Testament is true (Matthew 5:17-18, Luke 24:44-48). Jesus suffered and died for our sins in fulfillment of Old Testament prophecy from YHWH (Isaiah 53; 1 Peter 2:24). And He rose from the dead in fulfillment of Old Testament prophecy from YHWH (e.g. Psalms 16:10, Acts 2:31). Jesus died to establish the New Covenant (Matthew 26:28), which YHWH had foretold in the Old Testament (Jeremiah 31:31-34). And Jesus died to bring about the defeat of Satan (Hebrews 2:14), which YHWH had foretold from even the first book of the Old Testament (Genesis 3:15).

Nonetheless, building on many people's misconceptions of YHWH as being (in their words) "the cruel God of the Old Testament", no doubt one of the future Antichrist's chief blasphemies against YHWH (Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:36) will be that YHWH is an evil god. This is one of the ancient blasphemies of Gnosticism, another being the antichrist lie that Christ is not in the flesh (2 John 1:7). The world will be deceived into completely rejecting YHWH, and worshipping Satan and the Antichrist instead (Revelation 13:4-8, Revelation 12:9). But Satan might not be worshipped as "Satan", which almost everyone sees as a bad name (it means "Adversary"), but as "Lucifer" (Isaiah 14:12), which means "the morning star". The Antichrist could falsely say that it is YHWH who is the true "Satan", the true "Adversary" of mankind. And the Antichrist could claim that even 2 Samuel 24:1 and 1 Chronicles 21:1 together prove this by showing that it was the single entity of YHWH/Satan who moved King David to number Israel. Of course, the truth is that 2 Samuel 24:1 and 1 Chronicles 21:1 together simply mean that YHWH used Satan to move David. YHWH elsewhere rebuked Satan (Zechariah 3:2), so they are in no way the same person.

Because the Antichrist and his False Prophet (possibly masquerading as Jesus) will deny that Jesus is the Christ (1 John 2:22), and will deny that Christ is in the flesh (1 John 4:3), and because they will bring the unsaved world into the worship of Lucifer (Satan, the dragon) instead (Revelation 13:4, Revelation 12:9), they could falsely say that (the non-mortal flesh) Lucifer is the Christ, that the new name of Christ (Revelation 3:12c) is "Lucifer Christ". For just as "Lucifer" means "the morning star", so Christ is the morning star (Revelation 22:16b). Also, Christ identified himself with the serpent (John 3:14), and Lucifer is the serpent (Revelation 12:9). Also, Christ said: "Ye are gods" (John 10:34), and it was the serpent who said: "ye shall be as gods" (Genesis 3:5).

But the truth is that Lucifer fell from his office of morning star (Isaiah 14:12), and became Satan (cf. Luke 10:18). Jesus Christ has taken over the office of morning star (Revelation 22:16). And Jesus Christ identified Himself only with the brass serpent on the pole in Numbers 21:8-9 (John 3:14), which typified Jesus Christ's crucifixion for our sins (John 19:16, Matthew 26:28). And in John 10:34, Jesus Christ (John 20:31) was quoting YHWH in Psalms 82:6-7, which shows that even though humans have knowledge of good and evil as gods do (Genesis 3:22), they will still die like humans (Psalms 82:7), contradicting the serpent's lie (Genesis 3:4). Nonetheless, the Antichrist could falsely say that Lucifer is the Christ and the true and beneficent God of mankind, and that the False Prophet is the miracle-working prophet Jesus (cf. John 3:2, Acts 3:22-24) returned to point the world to the true Christ/God. The Antichrist could falsely say that he (the Antichrist) is the human/divine "Son" of Lucifer, who must be worshipped as God along with Lucifer (Revelation 13:4,8). This would be similar to how Biblical Christians rightly worship the human/divine Jesus Christ (John 1:1,14) as YHWH God (the Son) along with YHWH God the Father (John 20:28, Hebrews 1:8).

Near the end of the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, unclean spirits like frogs will come out of the mouths of Lucifer, the Antichrist, and the False Prophet (Revelation 16:13). And these unclean spirits like frogs will go forth and perform amazing miracles to convince the world's armies to gather together at Armageddon (Har Megiddo: Mount Megiddo in northern Israel) (Revelation 16:16) in an attempt to fight and defeat YHWH Himself (Revelation 16:14, Revelation 19:19). After gathering together at Armageddon, the armies will travel south and pillage Jerusalem, right before the real Jesus (who is YHWH: John 10:30) returns from heaven and defeats them completely (Zechariah 14:2-21, Revelation 19:20 to 20:3).

So the Second Coming of Jesus Christ will be a total shock to the world. The world will have been expecting to wage war against some evil Old Testament god named "YHWH" with the help of the good Jesus (played by the False Prophet), and with the help of the true and beneficent Christ/God (played by Lucifer), and with the help of the good Son of God (played by the Antichrist), and with the help of the good angels of God (played by the fallen angels of Lucifer: Revelation 12:9). But then, instead of some evil god appearing in the sky, the world could see the glorious sign of the Cross (cf. Matthew 24:30), the symbol of the good YHWH suffering and dying for our sins (Acts 20:28b). And then the world will see the glorious appearance of the real Jesus sitting on a white horse descending from the sky (Revelation 19:11-21).

When the people of the world realize at that moment how thoroughly they have been duped, and see in the sky the huge angelic armies (2 Thessalonians 1:7, Matthew 25:31) of the true Jesus, the true Christ, the true Son of God, and the good YHWH, who are all the one and the same Jesus Christ of Nazareth, then they could utterly mourn and wail for themselves (Matthew 24:30, Revelation 1:7), knowing in their spirits that Jesus has returned in wrath to destroy most of them for their unrepentant sins (2 Thessalonians 1:8-9, Revelation 19:15-21).

You obviously missed my point, so I'll repeat it with clarification to assist you.

The evidence is conclusive that no historical author in eighteen centuries of the historical true Church futurized the entirety of Matthew 24.

Some historical authors futurized some portions of Matthew 24.

But no historical author in eighteen centuries of the historical true Church futurized the entirety of Matthew 24.

Such futurization is solely a characteristic of modernist futurism.


Also, still awaiting those video responses.
 
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You obviously missed my point, so I'll repeat it with clarification.

The evidence is conclusive that no historical author in eighteen centuries of the historical true Church futurized the entirety of Matthew 24.

Some historical authors futurized some portions of Matthew 24.

But no historical author in eighteen centuries of the historical true Church futurized the entirety of Matthew 24.

Such futurization is solely a characteristic of modernist futurism.


Also, still awaiting those video responses.
Why be concerned about old authors and so called experts from the past, or present, in their opinions and fanciful notions?
They did not have the truth about Bible Prophecy then, just as most do not have it today.

The only way to understand God's Plans for our future is to study His Word with an open mind.
Something that you, jgr, do not seem to have; with your determined preterism.

As for watching videos; maybe that will be one of the tortures of hell!
 
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Why be concerned about old authors and so called experts from the past, or present, in their opinions and fanciful notions?
They did not have the truth about Bible Prophecy then, just as most do not have it today.

The only way to understand God's Plans for our future is to study His Word with an open mind.
Something that you, jgr, do not seem to have; with your determined preterism.

As for watching videos; maybe that will be one of the tortures of hell!

I'll cast my lot with historical defenders of the faith over cultic modernist futurist fantasy, unreservedly every time.

Those who reject history's lessons are condemned to repeat them.

That includes the lessons of Scriptural history.
 
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I'll cast my lot with historical defenders of the faith over cultic modernist futurist fantasy, unreservedly every time.

Those who reject history's lessons are condemned to repeat them.

That includes the lessons of Scriptural history.
Those who reject the plain Prophetic Word, are destined to be very surprised and embarrassed when they all take place.
Please tell us exactly what is 'cultic' about believing what God has told us in His Word?
 
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Those who reject the plain Prophetic Word, are destined to be very surprised and embarrassed when they all take place.
Please tell us exactly what is 'cultic' about believing what God has told us in His Word?

Those who reject the plain Prophetic Word in its fulfillments of all of God's promises in Christ (2 Corinthians 1:20) are an embarrassment to God Himself, and to His defenders of the faith in the true Church through the ages.

“Cultic” is disbelieving what God has told us in His Word, and substituting modernist futurist speculation, presumption, conjecture, denial, fallacy, and fantasy.

But He will always preserve His "7,000" who will not bow to that Baal.
 
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Those who reject the plain Prophetic Word in its fulfillments of all of God's promises in Christ (2 Corinthians 1:20) are an embarrassment to God Himself, and to His defenders of the faith in the true Church through the ages.

“Cultic” is disbelieving what God has told us in His Word, and substituting modernist futurist speculation, presumption, conjecture, denial, fallacy, and fantasy.

But He will always preserve His "7,000" who will not bow to that Baal.
I and all who read and understand the Prophetic Word, do believe all those prophesies that can be fulfilled - will be.
Christ is the final fulfilment, but that is yet to come, first; all the dramatic events that are still to happen.

Using modern knowledge to understand prophesies like Isaiah 30:26a - being a massive explosion of the suns surface, a CME, is perfectly acceptable, as God wants us to know His plans for us.

So your inference is that you are one of the 7000? Prejudging yourself is a trick of the 'rapture to heaven' believers. Not done by one who wishes to inherit the earth. Matthew 5:5
And the 'rapturists' will be very disappointed.
But in these last days, the Lord's people are said to be as many as the sands of the sea. A vast multitude. Revelation 7:9-14
 
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jgr said in post #90:

The evidence is conclusive that no historical author in eighteen centuries of the historical true Church futurized the entirety of Matthew 24.

Note that the evidence is conclusive that no historical events or personages have ever fulfilled Matthew 24, or Revelation chapters 6 to 18.

For example, the 666 in Revelation 13:17c-18 refers to the number six hundred and sixty-six, the "number of the name" of the individual man who will be the future Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast"). The number of a name (Revelation 13:17c-18, Revelation 15:2) is determined by employing the ancient method of gematria, by which numerical values are assigned to the letters of any alphabet as follows: the first nine letters are assigned a value of 1 through 9, the next nine letters are assigned a value of 10 through 90 (counting by tens), and the rest of the letters are assigned a value of 100, 200, 300, etc., to the end of the alphabet. In Revelation 13:18 the "counting", the adding up, of the gematrial number of the future Antichrist's name should be done in the same way that the gematrial numerical values of the three Greek letters (Chi, Xi, and Stigma) at the end of Revelation 13:18 (in the original Greek Textus Receptus) are added up to arrive at the number six hundred and sixty-six.

The numerical values assigned to the letters of the ancient Greek alphabet (including the three obsolete letters of Stigma, Qoppa, and Sampi) were as follows: Alpha = 1, Beta = 2, Gamma = 3, Delta = 4, Epsilon = 5, Stigma = 6, Zeta = 7, Eta = 8, Theta = 9, Iota = 10, Kappa = 20, Lambda = 30, Mu = 40, Nu = 50, Xi = 60, Omikron = 70, Pi = 80, Qoppa = 90, Rho = 100, Sigma = 200, Tau = 300, Upsilon = 400, Phi = 500, Chi = 600, Psi = 700, Omega = 800, Sampi = 900.

Just as the numerical values of Chi, Xi, and Stigma at the end of Revelation 13:18 (in the Textus Receptus) add up to 666, so the numerical values of the letters in the future Antichrist's name will add up to 666 (Revelation 13:17c-18). The apostle John used the Greek alphabet because it was the most common one used by Christians when the book of Revelation was written down in the first century AD. Today, the English alphabet is the most common one used by Christians, insofar as English is the current lingua franca of the world. So the Antichrist's name will most likely add up to 666 in the English alphabet. The purpose of Revelation 13:17c-18 is to facilitate for Christians, not to make difficult for them, the identification of a certain man as possibly being the Antichrist. If the letters in his name had to be transliterated into the Greek alphabet, this would vitiate this purpose, for almost all Christians today would not know how to properly perform this transliteration, and so different Christians would come up with different transliterations, and so would come up with different gematrial numbers for the name of the man in question.

If Christians think that someone is the Antichrist, then they need to check to see if his name adds up to 666 in gematria (Revelation 13:17c-18). If it does not, then he is not the Antichrist. If it does, then he could be, and they need to be especially wary of him, and not be taken in by any deceptive charisma, intelligence, or amazing deeds which he might display. But even if someone's name does add up to 666, this does not mean that he is definitely the Antichrist. For just by chance there could be more than one person in the world whose name adds up to 666. The Antichrist also has to come from a country the territory of which used to be part of one of the four Diadochian Greek kingdoms which succeeded Alexander the Great (Daniel 8:8-9,21-25). These kingdoms stretched from Greece over to Iran, and down into Egypt. So the Antichrist could come from the Middle East. He could be an Arab who will come from Lebanon, from the modern city of Tyre (Ezekiel 28:2; 2 Thessalonians 2:4), and have a name like (for example) "Nabil Abdullah Falakal al-Hakim", which adds up to 666.

But if a man from the Middle East has a name that adds up to 666, even this does not assure that he is the Antichrist. For he also has to sit (at least one time) in a future, third Jewish temple in Jerusalem and proclaim himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:3-4, Daniel 11:31,36, Matthew 24:15, Revelation 11:1-2). Once he does that, there will not be any more room for doubt over whether or not he is the Antichrist. His identity will have been definitely revealed (2 Thessalonians 2:3b-4).

The gematrial numerical values of the letters of the English alphabet are: A=1, B=2, C=3, D=4, E=5, F=6, G=7, H=8, I=9, J=10, K=20, L=30, M=40, N=50, O=60, P=70, Q=80, R=90, S=100, T=200, U=300, V=400, W=500, X=600, Y=700, Z=800. The way that the gematrial number of a name is "counted" (Revelation 13:17c-18), is added up, is simply by adding up the gematrial numerical values of all of the letters in that name. So, for example, the number of the name "John Mark Smith" is 636, because: J=10, O=60, H=8, N=50, M=40, A=1, R=90, K=20, S=100, M=40, I=9, T=200, H=8. Total = 636. The future Antichrist's name will add up to 666 (Revelation 13:17c-18).

*******

jgr said in post #92:

Those who reject history's lessons are condemned to repeat them.

Note that any mistaken teaching which claims that the Antichrist has already come and gone could be employed in our future by the real Antichrist to fool some Christians into thinking that he is not the Antichrist.

jgr said in post #92:

That includes the lessons of Scriptural history.

That brings to mind 2 Kings 16:10-16. For it is sometimes asked: "Was not 2 Kings 16:10-16, like what King Manasseh did, an abomination of desolation like what the future Antichrist will do?"

2 Kings 16:10-16 refers to King Ahaz replacing the original altar of Solomon's temple with another altar of a pagan design as the place where the Old Covenant Mosaic law animal sacrifices would be offered in front of the temple, with Ahaz reserving the original altar as the place where he would make inquiries to YHWH (2 Kings 16:15c). Although this was wrong to do, it is not referred to as being an abomination of desolation.

The pagan altars which King Manasseh later erected in the temple's courts (2 Kings 21:5), and even within the temple building itself (2 Kings 21:4,7), are called abominations (2 Kings 21:2,11). And because of them, God would later (in 586 BC, through Babylon) bring physical desolation to all of Jerusalem and Judah (2 Kings 21:12-14; 2 Kings 23:26-27, Jeremiah 15:4), despite God's acceptance of King Manasseh's personal repentance (2 Chronicles 33:12-13), his cleansing of the temple from all pagan altars and idols (2 Chronicles 33:15), and his restoration of the original altar and Old Covenant animal sacrifices (2 Chronicles 33:16).

But whereas King Manasseh had even placed a statue of the Phoenician goddess Asherah (Astarte) within the temple (2 Kings 21:7, "grove" in the original Hebrew is "Asherah"), the future Antichrist could place within a future, third Jewish temple in Jerusalem an image of himself to be worshipped (Revelation 13:14b-15, Daniel 11:31b, Matthew 24:15).

Also, what King Manasseh did in 2 Kings 21:4-7 was different from what the future Antichrist will do, insofar as the Antichrist will also sit himself (at least one time) in the temple and say that he himself is God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36).

So the future Antichrist will do more evil in God's temple than anyone has ever done in the past.

But the future Antichrist will not (as is sometimes claimed) be a Jewish king, like King Manasseh and King Ahaz were Jewish.

For the future Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast"), during his literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:5-18), will not support Judaism in its past and current form, insofar as Judaism worships YHWH (Deuteronomy 6:4-5), while the Antichrist will utterly revile YHWH (Daniel 11:36, Revelation 13:5). And Judaism rejects Lucifer/Satan as being evil (Zechariah 3:2, Isaiah 14:12), while the Antichrist will bring the world into the conscious and open worship of Lucifer (Satan, the dragon) (Revelation 13:4, Revelation 12:9). And Judaism forbids the worship of any images (Leviticus 26:1), while the Antichrist will have an image made of himself to be worshipped (Revelation 13:15).

Regarding the idea of the Antichrist being Jewish by blood, both of his parents could be Arabs (if his mother was not impregnated by Satan himself). But from some long-ago ancestor, the Antichrist could also have some Jewish blood in him, from the tribe of Dan (Genesis 49:17), which could be the reason that the tribe of Dan is not included in the twelve tribes of the 144,000 (Revelation 7:4-8; there, "Joseph" stands for Ephraim: Numbers 1:32, Psalms 78:67, Ezekiel 37:16b,19).

-

Also, the future Antichrist will not (as is sometimes claimed) claim to be the Jewish Messiah.

For note that "anti"-Christ can simply mean anyone who is "against" the true Christ, as in any "opponent of the Messiah" (Strong's Greek Dictionary, Word #500: antichristos), as in anyone who denies that Jesus is the Christ (1 John 2:22), or denies that Jesus is the human/divine Son of God (1 John 2:22b), or denies that Christ is in the flesh (2 John 1:7). The spirit of antichrist (1 John 4:3) has been working since the first century AD (2 Thessalonians 2:7), animating many antichrists since that time (1 John 2:18; 2 John 1:7).

And note that nothing requires that the future Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") will ever claim to be the Messiah/Christ. For his antichrist denial that Christ is in the flesh (1 John 4:3) will disqualify him as a mortal-flesh human (under his mistaken Gnostic doctrine) from being Christ. Instead, the non-mortal-flesh Lucifer (Satan, the dragon) could be the false Christ (that is, the "Lucifer" Christ, and not the "Jesus" Christ: 1 John 2:22) during the future Antichrist's literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9), which will be in the latter half of the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24.

But none of this means that there will not also be multiple, human false Christs who will arise during the future Tribulation (Matthew 24:24), including one who will be an ultra-Orthodox Jewish false Christ/Messiah. For shortly after the start of the Tribulation, the Antichrist could "cut" a peace treaty with an ultra-Orthodox Jewish false "Messiah" (Daniel 9:26a, Daniel 11:22-23a) in Israel, promising this false Messiah and his ultra-Orthodox Jewish followers that they can keep for at least seven years (Daniel 9:27a) a third Jewish temple (Revelation 11:1) which they will have built on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem.
 
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keras said in post #95:

Using modern knowledge to understand prophesies like Isaiah 30:26a - being a massive explosion of the suns surface, a CME, is perfectly acceptable, as God wants us to know His plans for us.

Note that Isaiah 30:26, like Isaiah 62:4, is about the future, blessed time of the Millennium (Isaiah 30:18-26). The bright sun in Isaiah 30:26 is a good thing, just as the bright moon and the healing in Isaiah 30:26 are good things.

Then Isaiah 30:27 starts a new idea, a new paragraph, like is indicated in some copies of the KJV. And Isaiah 30:27 also takes a step back chronologically from Isaiah 30:26, like how, for example, Matthew 14:3 takes a step back chronologically from Matthew 14:2. For Isaiah 30:27-33 is about Jesus Christ's future, Second Coming (right before the Millennium), when He will come in flaming fire (2 Thessalonians 1:7-10).
 
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Note that the evidence is conclusive that no historical events or personages have ever fulfilled Matthew 24, or Revelation chapters 6 to 18.

For example, the 666 in Revelation 13:17c-18 refers to the number six hundred and sixty-six, the "number of the name" of the individual man who will be the future Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast"). The number of a name (Revelation 13:17c-18, Revelation 15:2) is determined by employing the ancient method of gematria, by which numerical values are assigned to the letters of any alphabet as follows: the first nine letters are assigned a value of 1 through 9, the next nine letters are assigned a value of 10 through 90 (counting by tens), and the rest of the letters are assigned a value of 100, 200, 300, etc., to the end of the alphabet. In Revelation 13:18 the "counting", the adding up, of the gematrial number of the future Antichrist's name should be done in the same way that the gematrial numerical values of the three Greek letters (Chi, Xi, and Stigma) at the end of Revelation 13:18 (in the original Greek Textus Receptus) are added up to arrive at the number six hundred and sixty-six.

The numerical values assigned to the letters of the ancient Greek alphabet (including the three obsolete letters of Stigma, Qoppa, and Sampi) were as follows: Alpha = 1, Beta = 2, Gamma = 3, Delta = 4, Epsilon = 5, Stigma = 6, Zeta = 7, Eta = 8, Theta = 9, Iota = 10, Kappa = 20, Lambda = 30, Mu = 40, Nu = 50, Xi = 60, Omikron = 70, Pi = 80, Qoppa = 90, Rho = 100, Sigma = 200, Tau = 300, Upsilon = 400, Phi = 500, Chi = 600, Psi = 700, Omega = 800, Sampi = 900.

Just as the numerical values of Chi, Xi, and Stigma at the end of Revelation 13:18 (in the Textus Receptus) add up to 666, so the numerical values of the letters in the future Antichrist's name will add up to 666 (Revelation 13:17c-18). The apostle John used the Greek alphabet because it was the most common one used by Christians when the book of Revelation was written down in the first century AD. Today, the English alphabet is the most common one used by Christians, insofar as English is the current lingua franca of the world. So the Antichrist's name will most likely add up to 666 in the English alphabet. The purpose of Revelation 13:17c-18 is to facilitate for Christians, not to make difficult for them, the identification of a certain man as possibly being the Antichrist. If the letters in his name had to be transliterated into the Greek alphabet, this would vitiate this purpose, for almost all Christians today would not know how to properly perform this transliteration, and so different Christians would come up with different transliterations, and so would come up with different gematrial numbers for the name of the man in question.

If Christians think that someone is the Antichrist, then they need to check to see if his name adds up to 666 in gematria (Revelation 13:17c-18). If it does not, then he is not the Antichrist. If it does, then he could be, and they need to be especially wary of him, and not be taken in by any deceptive charisma, intelligence, or amazing deeds which he might display. But even if someone's name does add up to 666, this does not mean that he is definitely the Antichrist. For just by chance there could be more than one person in the world whose name adds up to 666. The Antichrist also has to come from a country the territory of which used to be part of one of the four Diadochian Greek kingdoms which succeeded Alexander the Great (Daniel 8:8-9,21-25). These kingdoms stretched from Greece over to Iran, and down into Egypt. So the Antichrist could come from the Middle East. He could be an Arab who will come from Lebanon, from the modern city of Tyre (Ezekiel 28:2; 2 Thessalonians 2:4), and have a name like (for example) "Nabil Abdullah Falakal al-Hakim", which adds up to 666.

But if a man from the Middle East has a name that adds up to 666, even this does not assure that he is the Antichrist. For he also has to sit (at least one time) in a future, third Jewish temple in Jerusalem and proclaim himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:3-4, Daniel 11:31,36, Matthew 24:15, Revelation 11:1-2). Once he does that, there will not be any more room for doubt over whether or not he is the Antichrist. His identity will have been definitely revealed (2 Thessalonians 2:3b-4).

The gematrial numerical values of the letters of the English alphabet are: A=1, B=2, C=3, D=4, E=5, F=6, G=7, H=8, I=9, J=10, K=20, L=30, M=40, N=50, O=60, P=70, Q=80, R=90, S=100, T=200, U=300, V=400, W=500, X=600, Y=700, Z=800. The way that the gematrial number of a name is "counted" (Revelation 13:17c-18), is added up, is simply by adding up the gematrial numerical values of all of the letters in that name. So, for example, the number of the name "John Mark Smith" is 636, because: J=10, O=60, H=8, N=50, M=40, A=1, R=90, K=20, S=100, M=40, I=9, T=200, H=8. Total = 636. The future Antichrist's name will add up to 666 (Revelation 13:17c-18).

*******



Note that any mistaken teaching which claims that the Antichrist has already come and gone could be employed in our future by the real Antichrist to fool some Christians into thinking that he is not the Antichrist.



That brings to mind 2 Kings 16:10-16. For it is sometimes asked: "Was not 2 Kings 16:10-16, like what King Manasseh did, an abomination of desolation like what the future Antichrist will do?"

2 Kings 16:10-16 refers to King Ahaz replacing the original altar of Solomon's temple with another altar of a pagan design as the place where the Old Covenant Mosaic law animal sacrifices would be offered in front of the temple, with Ahaz reserving the original altar as the place where he would make inquiries to YHWH (2 Kings 16:15c). Although this was wrong to do, it is not referred to as being an abomination of desolation.

The pagan altars which King Manasseh later erected in the temple's courts (2 Kings 21:5), and even within the temple building itself (2 Kings 21:4,7), are called abominations (2 Kings 21:2,11). And because of them, God would later (in 586 BC, through Babylon) bring physical desolation to all of Jerusalem and Judah (2 Kings 21:12-14; 2 Kings 23:26-27, Jeremiah 15:4), despite God's acceptance of King Manasseh's personal repentance (2 Chronicles 33:12-13), his cleansing of the temple from all pagan altars and idols (2 Chronicles 33:15), and his restoration of the original altar and Old Covenant animal sacrifices (2 Chronicles 33:16).

But whereas King Manasseh had even placed a statue of the Phoenician goddess Asherah (Astarte) within the temple (2 Kings 21:7, "grove" in the original Hebrew is "Asherah"), the future Antichrist could place within a future, third Jewish temple in Jerusalem an image of himself to be worshipped (Revelation 13:14b-15, Daniel 11:31b, Matthew 24:15).

Also, what King Manasseh did in 2 Kings 21:4-7 was different from what the future Antichrist will do, insofar as the Antichrist will also sit himself (at least one time) in the temple and say that he himself is God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36).

So the future Antichrist will do more evil in God's temple than anyone has ever done in the past.

But the future Antichrist will not (as is sometimes claimed) be a Jewish king, like King Manasseh and King Ahaz were Jewish.

For the future Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast"), during his literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:5-18), will not support Judaism in its past and current form, insofar as Judaism worships YHWH (Deuteronomy 6:4-5), while the Antichrist will utterly revile YHWH (Daniel 11:36, Revelation 13:5). And Judaism rejects Lucifer/Satan as being evil (Zechariah 3:2, Isaiah 14:12), while the Antichrist will bring the world into the conscious and open worship of Lucifer (Satan, the dragon) (Revelation 13:4, Revelation 12:9). And Judaism forbids the worship of any images (Leviticus 26:1), while the Antichrist will have an image made of himself to be worshipped (Revelation 13:15).

Regarding the idea of the Antichrist being Jewish by blood, both of his parents could be Arabs (if his mother was not impregnated by Satan himself). But from some long-ago ancestor, the Antichrist could also have some Jewish blood in him, from the tribe of Dan (Genesis 49:17), which could be the reason that the tribe of Dan is not included in the twelve tribes of the 144,000 (Revelation 7:4-8; there, "Joseph" stands for Ephraim: Numbers 1:32, Psalms 78:67, Ezekiel 37:16b,19).

-

Also, the future Antichrist will not (as is sometimes claimed) claim to be the Jewish Messiah.

For note that "anti"-Christ can simply mean anyone who is "against" the true Christ, as in any "opponent of the Messiah" (Strong's Greek Dictionary, Word #500: antichristos), as in anyone who denies that Jesus is the Christ (1 John 2:22), or denies that Jesus is the human/divine Son of God (1 John 2:22b), or denies that Christ is in the flesh (2 John 1:7). The spirit of antichrist (1 John 4:3) has been working since the first century AD (2 Thessalonians 2:7), animating many antichrists since that time (1 John 2:18; 2 John 1:7).

And note that nothing requires that the future Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") will ever claim to be the Messiah/Christ. For his antichrist denial that Christ is in the flesh (1 John 4:3) will disqualify him as a mortal-flesh human (under his mistaken Gnostic doctrine) from being Christ. Instead, the non-mortal-flesh Lucifer (Satan, the dragon) could be the false Christ (that is, the "Lucifer" Christ, and not the "Jesus" Christ: 1 John 2:22) during the future Antichrist's literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9), which will be in the latter half of the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24.

But none of this means that there will not also be multiple, human false Christs who will arise during the future Tribulation (Matthew 24:24), including one who will be an ultra-Orthodox Jewish false Christ/Messiah. For shortly after the start of the Tribulation, the Antichrist could "cut" a peace treaty with an ultra-Orthodox Jewish false "Messiah" (Daniel 9:26a, Daniel 11:22-23a) in Israel, promising this false Messiah and his ultra-Orthodox Jewish followers that they can keep for at least seven years (Daniel 9:27a) a third Jewish temple (Revelation 11:1) which they will have built on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem.

You might as well conserve server space, because it is invariably evident by the end of each of your opening sentences whether you've addressed the topic.

The topic has been who has futurized the entirety of Matthew 24. The answer is: Not one historical soul.

I would even venture to say that no recognized contemporary futurist futurizes the entire chapter. Even John Hagee does not.

So the obvious consequent question is: How does your individual insight exceed that of the collective insights of viritually every other human being on earth, both past and present?

You can answer that in a mere handful, or less, of (relatively short) sentences.

And thereby conserve some server space.

Also, still awaiting those video responses.
 
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jgr said in post #98:

The topic has been who has futurized the entirety of Matthew 24. The answer is: Not one historical soul.

Note that not one historical event or personage has preterized Matthew 24, or Revelation chapters 6 to 18, which refer to the same Tribulation as Matthew 24, immediately after which Jesus Christ must return (Matthew 24:29-31, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6).

For example, in the never-fulfilled Revelation 11:3-12, the Two Witnesses could be literally Moses and Elijah. For the two men seen "standing before the God of the earth" (Revelation 11:4) at the Transfiguration were Moses and Elijah (Matthew 17:3). And in Revelation 11:4 the two "olive trees" refer back to the two men who were already standing by the Lord by the time of the prophet Zechariah (Zechariah 4:11,14), which was subsequent to the times of Moses and Elijah.

Moses and Elijah could come down from heaven in their mortal bodies at the midpoint of the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, just as they came down at the Transfiguration (Matthew 17:3). Also, the plagues which the Two Witnesses will cause (Revelation 11:6,5) will match plagues which Moses and Elijah caused in Old Testament times (James 5:17, Exodus 7:20; 2 Kings 1:10-14).

Elijah never died, but was taken physically into heaven (2 Kings 2:11b). And the archangel Michael retrieved Moses' dead body from Satan (Jude 1:9). Michael could have then taken Moses' recently-dead body into heaven, where it could have been resuscitated by God back to mortal life, like how, for example, Lazarus' recently-dead body was resuscitated by God back to mortal life (John 12:1). This would explain how both Moses and Elijah could be alive at the Transfiguration (Matthew 17:3).

The Two Witnesses will prophesy and bring plagues on the world during the literal 3.5 years (Revelation 11:2b-3,6) of the future Antichrist's worldwide reign (Revelation 13:5,7, Revelation 12:6,14), which will be in the latter half of the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24. That is why the Antichrist's reign will legally end (Revelation 11:15) right after the time of the Two Witnesses on the earth will end (Revelation 11:12-15). The plagues which they will bring (Revelation 11:6) will be part of the Tribulation's second woe/sixth trumpet (Revelation 11:14, Revelation 9:12-13). The Two Witnesses will be taken physically up to heaven before the Tribulation's seventh trumpet sounds (Revelation 11:12,15).

They may not be witnesses in the sense of evangelizing the world (Acts 1:8). For the original Greek word (martus: G3144) translated as "witnesses" (Revelation 11:3) can also refer to those who witness against people, and bring punishment against them (Acts 7:58). The reason that there will be two witnesses (Revelation 11:3) who will bring plagues to torment the unrepentant world (Revelation 11:6,10b) would be because two witnesses are required to bring judgment against people (1 Timothy 5:19). At the same time, the two "witnesses" could be called that because both of them will be martyred (Revelation 11:7-9). For the same original Greek word translated as "witnesses" (Revelation 11:3) can refer to "martyrs" (Revelation 17:6).

jgr said in post #98:

I would even venture to say that no recognized contemporary futurist futurizes the entire chapter. Even John Hagee does not.

Note that we do not need to look to any Christian Futurist, but only to what the Bible itself says in Matthew 24 and Revelation chapters 6 to 18, to know that the Tribulation has yet to be fulfilled.

For Bible prophecy is not missing any information, insofar as in it, Jesus Christ has told Christians everything that they need to know in order to not be deceived by anything that is coming: "take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things" (Mark 13:23). "Take heed lest any man deceive you" (Mark 13:5).

Also, regarding Dispensational Christian Futurists, we need to beware of Dispensationalism.

For it is sometimes asked: "Is Dispensationalism anti-Semitic?"

The answer is: Not intentionally or consciously, but deep-down, subconsciously, yes. For Dispensationalism being "United for Israel" does not ultimately mean that it is united for Israel itself, but for Israel being separate from the Church. For Dispensationalism mistakenly thinks that only Israel will have to go through the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, while what Dispensationalism calls "the Gentile Church" will not have to. So Dispensationalism, in a fear of the Tribulation, places Israel on a pedestal, but only as the scapegoat, the one who will have to go away into the wilderness (Leviticus 16:10, Revelation 12:6), into the suffering of the Tribulation, while the so-called "Gentile Church" will supposedly be raptured into heaven.

Most Jews are probably unaware that Dispensationalism thinks that only Jews will have to go into the Tribulation, while "the Gentile Church" is too special for God to let it go into the Tribulation; just as most Jews are probably unaware that Dispensationalism denies Jews any of what Dispensationalism calls the superior, "heavenly promises", which are reserved solely for "the Gentile Church", while Jews get only the scraps of the inferior, "earthly promises". So most Jews are probably unaware that Dispensationalism (subconsciously, ultimately) thinks of them as people think of their pet dogs: good enough to pet and stroke and throw scraps down to, but certainly not good enough to actually sit at the table with God in heaven like "the Gentile Church" will.

Some Jews are fully aware that Dispensationalism relegates them to the status of second-class citizens; that Dispensationalism, in effect, sews yellow stars on Jews and calls it a badge of honor; that Dispensationalism, to show its "full support for Israel", would drive Israel to the train station, see Israel onto the train, blow kisses to Israel as the train heads out of the station on its way to the gas chambers of the Antichrist, all because this so encourages Dispensationalism, to think that "the Gentile Church" will not have to be on that train, to think that, thank God, "It is only for the Jews".

Many Jews are fully aware of all of this; they are not stupid. But they will take the donation checks and political support of Dispensationalists nonetheless, for every little bit helps. And in a world full of deadly enemies of Israel, there is no use in driving away people who claim that they are Israel's best friends, and do Israel no actual harm. Of course, Israel may consider its Dispensationalist friends, not to mention other Christian Futurists, to be a little bit nutty. But Israel may feel that it does not have to fear their weird notions of "the future Tribulation" and "the future Antichrist", because it does not believe in any of that stuff anyway. But, hey, if it motivates fearful Dispensationalists to praise and to stuff the pockets of the scapegoat, where is the harm?
 
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jgr

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Note that not one historical event or personage has preterized Matthew 24, or Revelation chapters 6 to 18, which refer to the same Tribulation as Matthew 24, immediately after which Jesus Christ must return (Matthew 24:29-31, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6).

For example, in the never-fulfilled Revelation 11:3-12, the Two Witnesses could be literally Moses and Elijah. For the two men seen "standing before the God of the earth" (Revelation 11:4) at the Transfiguration were Moses and Elijah (Matthew 17:3). And in Revelation 11:4 the two "olive trees" refer back to the two men who were already standing by the Lord by the time of the prophet Zechariah (Zechariah 4:11,14), which was subsequent to the times of Moses and Elijah.

Moses and Elijah could come down from heaven in their mortal bodies at the midpoint of the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, just as they came down at the Transfiguration (Matthew 17:3). Also, the plagues which the Two Witnesses will cause (Revelation 11:6,5) will match plagues which Moses and Elijah caused in Old Testament times (James 5:17, Exodus 7:20; 2 Kings 1:10-14).

Elijah never died, but was taken physically into heaven (2 Kings 2:11b). And the archangel Michael retrieved Moses' dead body from Satan (Jude 1:9). Michael could have then taken Moses' recently-dead body into heaven, where it could have been resuscitated by God back to mortal life, like how, for example, Lazarus' recently-dead body was resuscitated by God back to mortal life (John 12:1). This would explain how both Moses and Elijah could be alive at the Transfiguration (Matthew 17:3).

The Two Witnesses will prophesy and bring plagues on the world during the literal 3.5 years (Revelation 11:2b-3,6) of the future Antichrist's worldwide reign (Revelation 13:5,7, Revelation 12:6,14), which will be in the latter half of the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24. That is why the Antichrist's reign will legally end (Revelation 11:15) right after the time of the Two Witnesses on the earth will end (Revelation 11:12-15). The plagues which they will bring (Revelation 11:6) will be part of the Tribulation's second woe/sixth trumpet (Revelation 11:14, Revelation 9:12-13). The Two Witnesses will be taken physically up to heaven before the Tribulation's seventh trumpet sounds (Revelation 11:12,15).

They may not be witnesses in the sense of evangelizing the world (Acts 1:8). For the original Greek word (martus: G3144) translated as "witnesses" (Revelation 11:3) can also refer to those who witness against people, and bring punishment against them (Acts 7:58). The reason that there will be two witnesses (Revelation 11:3) who will bring plagues to torment the unrepentant world (Revelation 11:6,10b) would be because two witnesses are required to bring judgment against people (1 Timothy 5:19). At the same time, the two "witnesses" could be called that because both of them will be martyred (Revelation 11:7-9). For the same original Greek word translated as "witnesses" (Revelation 11:3) can refer to "martyrs" (Revelation 17:6).



Note that we do not need to look to any Christian Futurist, but only to what the Bible itself says in Matthew 24 and Revelation chapters 6 to 18, to know that the Tribulation has yet to be fulfilled.

For Bible prophecy is not missing any information, insofar as in it, Jesus Christ has told Christians everything that they need to know in order to not be deceived by anything that is coming: "take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things" (Mark 13:23). "Take heed lest any man deceive you" (Mark 13:5).

Also, regarding Dispensational Christian Futurists, we need to beware of Dispensationalism.

For it is sometimes asked: "Is Dispensationalism anti-Semitic?"

The answer is: Not intentionally or consciously, but deep-down, subconsciously, yes. For Dispensationalism being "United for Israel" does not ultimately mean that it is united for Israel itself, but for Israel being separate from the Church. For Dispensationalism mistakenly thinks that only Israel will have to go through the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, while what Dispensationalism calls "the Gentile Church" will not have to. So Dispensationalism, in a fear of the Tribulation, places Israel on a pedestal, but only as the scapegoat, the one who will have to go away into the wilderness (Leviticus 16:10, Revelation 12:6), into the suffering of the Tribulation, while the so-called "Gentile Church" will supposedly be raptured into heaven.

Most Jews are probably unaware that Dispensationalism thinks that only Jews will have to go into the Tribulation, while "the Gentile Church" is too special for God to let it go into the Tribulation; just as most Jews are probably unaware that Dispensationalism denies Jews any of what Dispensationalism calls the superior, "heavenly promises", which are reserved solely for "the Gentile Church", while Jews get only the scraps of the inferior, "earthly promises". So most Jews are probably unaware that Dispensationalism (subconsciously, ultimately) thinks of them as people think of their pet dogs: good enough to pet and stroke and throw scraps down to, but certainly not good enough to actually sit at the table with God in heaven like "the Gentile Church" will.

Some Jews are fully aware that Dispensationalism relegates them to the status of second-class citizens; that Dispensationalism, in effect, sews yellow stars on Jews and calls it a badge of honor; that Dispensationalism, to show its "full support for Israel", would drive Israel to the train station, see Israel onto the train, blow kisses to Israel as the train heads out of the station on its way to the gas chambers of the Antichrist, all because this so encourages Dispensationalism, to think that "the Gentile Church" will not have to be on that train, to think that, thank God, "It is only for the Jews".

Many Jews are fully aware of all of this; they are not stupid. But they will take the donation checks and political support of Dispensationalists nonetheless, for every little bit helps. And in a world full of deadly enemies of Israel, there is no use in driving away people who claim that they are Israel's best friends, and do Israel no actual harm. Of course, Israel may consider its Dispensationalist friends, not to mention other Christian Futurists, to be a little bit nutty. But Israel may feel that it does not have to fear their weird notions of "the future Tribulation" and "the future Antichrist", because it does not believe in any of that stuff anyway. But, hey, if it motivates fearful Dispensationalists to praise and to stuff the pockets of the scapegoat, where is the harm?
Note that not one historical event or personage has preterized Matthew 24, or Revelation chapters 6 to 18, which refer to the same Tribulation as Matthew 24, immediately after which Jesus Christ must return (Matthew 24:29-31, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6).

For example, in the never-fulfilled Revelation 11:3-12, the Two Witnesses could be literally Moses and Elijah. For the two men seen "standing before the God of the earth" (Revelation 11:4) at the Transfiguration were Moses and Elijah (Matthew 17:3). And in Revelation 11:4 the two "olive trees" refer back to the two men who were already standing by the Lord by the time of the prophet Zechariah (Zechariah 4:11,14), which was subsequent to the times of Moses and Elijah.

Moses and Elijah could come down from heaven in their mortal bodies at the midpoint of the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, just as they came down at the Transfiguration (Matthew 17:3). Also, the plagues which the Two Witnesses will cause (Revelation 11:6,5) will match plagues which Moses and Elijah caused in Old Testament times (James 5:17, Exodus 7:20; 2 Kings 1:10-14).

Elijah never died, but was taken physically into heaven (2 Kings 2:11b). And the archangel Michael retrieved Moses' dead body from Satan (Jude 1:9). Michael could have then taken Moses' recently-dead body into heaven, where it could have been resuscitated by God back to mortal life, like how, for example, Lazarus' recently-dead body was resuscitated by God back to mortal life (John 12:1). This would explain how both Moses and Elijah could be alive at the Transfiguration (Matthew 17:3).

The Two Witnesses will prophesy and bring plagues on the world during the literal 3.5 years (Revelation 11:2b-3,6) of the future Antichrist's worldwide reign (Revelation 13:5,7, Revelation 12:6,14), which will be in the latter half of the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24. That is why the Antichrist's reign will legally end (Revelation 11:15) right after the time of the Two Witnesses on the earth will end (Revelation 11:12-15). The plagues which they will bring (Revelation 11:6) will be part of the Tribulation's second woe/sixth trumpet (Revelation 11:14, Revelation 9:12-13). The Two Witnesses will be taken physically up to heaven before the Tribulation's seventh trumpet sounds (Revelation 11:12,15).

They may not be witnesses in the sense of evangelizing the world (Acts 1:8). For the original Greek word (martus: G3144) translated as "witnesses" (Revelation 11:3) can also refer to those who witness against people, and bring punishment against them (Acts 7:58). The reason that there will be two witnesses (Revelation 11:3) who will bring plagues to torment the unrepentant world (Revelation 11:6,10b) would be because two witnesses are required to bring judgment against people (1 Timothy 5:19). At the same time, the two "witnesses" could be called that because both of them will be martyred (Revelation 11:7-9). For the same original Greek word translated as "witnesses" (Revelation 11:3) can refer to "martyrs" (Revelation 17:6).



Note that we do not need to look to any Christian Futurist, but only to what the Bible itself says in Matthew 24 and Revelation chapters 6 to 18, to know that the Tribulation has yet to be fulfilled.

For Bible prophecy is not missing any information, insofar as in it, Jesus Christ has told Christians everything that they need to know in order to not be deceived by anything that is coming: "take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things" (Mark 13:23). "Take heed lest any man deceive you" (Mark 13:5).

Also, regarding Dispensational Christian Futurists, we need to beware of Dispensationalism.

For it is sometimes asked: "Is Dispensationalism anti-Semitic?"

The answer is: Not intentionally or consciously, but deep-down, subconsciously, yes. For Dispensationalism being "United for Israel" does not ultimately mean that it is united for Israel itself, but for Israel being separate from the Church. For Dispensationalism mistakenly thinks that only Israel will have to go through the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, while what Dispensationalism calls "the Gentile Church" will not have to. So Dispensationalism, in a fear of the Tribulation, places Israel on a pedestal, but only as the scapegoat, the one who will have to go away into the wilderness (Leviticus 16:10, Revelation 12:6), into the suffering of the Tribulation, while the so-called "Gentile Church" will supposedly be raptured into heaven.

Most Jews are probably unaware that Dispensationalism thinks that only Jews will have to go into the Tribulation, while "the Gentile Church" is too special for God to let it go into the Tribulation; just as most Jews are probably unaware that Dispensationalism denies Jews any of what Dispensationalism calls the superior, "heavenly promises", which are reserved solely for "the Gentile Church", while Jews get only the scraps of the inferior, "earthly promises". So most Jews are probably unaware that Dispensationalism (subconsciously, ultimately) thinks of them as people think of their pet dogs: good enough to pet and stroke and throw scraps down to, but certainly not good enough to actually sit at the table with God in heaven like "the Gentile Church" will.

Some Jews are fully aware that Dispensationalism relegates them to the status of second-class citizens; that Dispensationalism, in effect, sews yellow stars on Jews and calls it a badge of honor; that Dispensationalism, to show its "full support for Israel", would drive Israel to the train station, see Israel onto the train, blow kisses to Israel as the train heads out of the station on its way to the gas chambers of the Antichrist, all because this so encourages Dispensationalism, to think that "the Gentile Church" will not have to be on that train, to think that, thank God, "It is only for the Jews".

Many Jews are fully aware of all of this; they are not stupid. But they will take the donation checks and political support of Dispensationalists nonetheless, for every little bit helps. And in a world full of deadly enemies of Israel, there is no use in driving away people who claim that they are Israel's best friends, and do Israel no actual harm. Of course, Israel may consider its Dispensationalist friends, not to mention other Christian Futurists, to be a little bit nutty. But Israel may feel that it does not have to fear their weird notions of "the future Tribulation" and "the future Antichrist", because it does not believe in any of that stuff anyway. But, hey, if it motivates fearful Dispensationalists to praise and to stuff the pockets of the scapegoat, where is the harm?

Futurism's Matthew 24 (based on the claims of many previous posts)

If any of the following is futurismically inaccurate, please identify it.

Verse 1: And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.

Jesus immediately turns His back on His disciples to signify that everything that He is about to say bears no relationship to them or to conditions of their day or to impending events of their generation. Everything He is about to say relates exclusively to some indeterminate future time which is now 2,000 years late, and counting. Jesus speaks in the direction of the wall:

Verse 2: And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

The wall cannot understand and thus does not respond. But if it could understand, it would be relieved in thinking that at least 2,000 and possibly many more years will elapse before it is thrown down.

Jesus, of course, knows that the part of the wall that He is speaking to will be leveled in 70 AD. But He can't let the wall, or His disciples, know.

Verse 3: And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

Jesus again immediately turns His back on His disciples to signify once again that everything that He is about to say bears no relationship to them or to the conditions of their day or to impending events of their generation. Everything He is about to say relates exclusively to some indeterminate future time which is now 2,000 years late, and counting. Jesus speaks in the direction of a large boulder directly in front of Him:

Verse 4: And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

If the boulder could understand and respond, it might say, “I'll be here during THE GREAT TRIBULATION. Nobody's gonna deceive ME.”


To be continued.
 
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