Why I Think Christmas is Not Biblical (Please read OP before posting).

I don't understand how some people are some iconoclastic and misinterpret the commandment about images. Do they allow pictures or paints in their house?

LoveGodsWord said:

Indeed, Christmas is a pagan festival but why stop there? What about Easter and Sunday worship (too many others)? They are all days of pagan origin. Why have they been adopted by the Mother Chruch and handed down to Protestantism? The mystery of iniquity does already work.

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Tell me how celebrating the Birth and resurrection of Christ is pagan?

Jason0047 said:

Important Note:
(Please read this before posting and or reading the rest of my OP):

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What non-Christians celebrate Xmas the way Christians do?

Luke 2 Good News Translation (GNT)
The Birth of Jesus
2 At that time Emperor Augustus ordered a census to be taken throughout the Roman Empire. 2 When this first census took place, Quirinius was the governor of Syria. 3 Everyone, then, went to register himself, each to his own hometown.

4 Joseph went from the town of Nazareth in Galilee to the town of Bethlehem in Judea, the birthplace of King David. Joseph went there because he was a descendant of David. 5 He went to register with Mary, who was promised in marriage to him. She was pregnant, 6 and while they were in Bethlehem, the time came for her to have her baby. 7 She gave birth to her first son, wrapped him in cloths and laid him in a manger—there was no room for them to stay in the inn.

The Shepherds and the Angels

8 There were some shepherds in that part of the country who were spending the night in the fields, taking care of their flocks. 9 An angel of the Lord appeared to them, and the glory of the Lord shone over them. They were terribly afraid, 10 but the angel said to them, “Don't be afraid! I am here with good news for you, which will bring great joy to all the people. 11 This very day in David's town your Savior was born—Christ the Lord! 12 And this is what will prove it to you: you will find a baby wrapped in cloths and lying in a manger.”

13 Suddenly a great army of heaven's angels appeared with the angel, singing praises to God:

14 “Glory to God in the highest heaven,
and peace on earth to those with whom he is pleased!”

15 When the angels went away from them back into heaven, the shepherds said to one another, “Let's go to Bethlehem and see this thing that has happened, which the Lord has told us.”

16 So they hurried off and found Mary and Joseph and saw the baby lying in the manger. 17 When the shepherds saw him, they told them what the angel had said about the child. 18 All who heard it were amazed at what the shepherds said. 19 Mary remembered all these things and thought deeply about them. 20 The shepherds went back, singing praises to God for all they had heard and seen; it had been just as the angel had told them.

Jesus Is Named
21 A week later, when the time came for the baby to be circumcised, he was named Jesus, the name which the angel had given him before he had been conceived.

Jesus Is Presented in the Temple
22 The time came for Joseph and Mary to perform the ceremony of purification, as the Law of Moses commanded. So they took the child to Jerusalem to present him to the Lord, 23 as it is written in the law of the Lord: “Every first-born male is to be dedicated to the Lord.” 24 They also went to offer a sacrifice of a pair of doves or two young pigeons, as required by the law of the Lord.

25 At that time there was a man named Simeon living in Jerusalem. He was a good, God-fearing man and was waiting for Israel to be saved. The Holy Spirit was with him 26 and had assured him that he would not die before he had seen the Lord's promised Messiah. 27 Led by the Spirit, Simeon went into the Temple. When the parents brought the child Jesus into the Temple to do for him what the Law required, 28 Simeon took the child in his arms and gave thanks to God:

29 “Now, Lord, you have kept your promise,
and you may let your servant go in peace.
30 With my own eyes I have seen your salvation,
31 which you have prepared in the presence of all peoples:
32 A light to reveal your will to the Gentiles
and bring glory to your people Israel.”

33 The child's father and mother were amazed at the things Simeon said about him. 34 Simeon blessed them and said to Mary, his mother, “This child is chosen by God for the destruction and the salvation of many in Israel. He will be a sign from God which many people will speak against 35 and so reveal their secret thoughts. And sorrow, like a sharp sword, will break your own heart.”

36-37 There was a very old prophet, a widow named Anna, daughter of Phanuel of the tribe of Asher. She had been married for only seven years and was now eighty-four years old.[a] She never left the Temple; day and night she worshiped God, fasting and praying. 38 That very same hour she arrived and gave thanks to God and spoke about the child to all who were waiting for God to set Jerusalem free.

The Return to Nazareth
39 When Joseph and Mary had finished doing all that was required by the Law of the Lord, they returned to their hometown of Nazareth in Galilee. 40 The child grew and became strong; he was full of wisdom, and God's blessings were upon him.

It is based on the above text that my family celebrates Jesus' Birth on January 6th.

As for the next text, it has nothing to do with the Christmas Tree, no one worships it like an idol.


Jeremiah 10 Amplified Bible, Classic Edition (AMPC)
10 Hear the word which the Lord speaks to you, O house of Israel.

2 Thus says the Lord: Learn not the way of the [heathen] nations and be not dismayed at the signs of the heavens, though they are dismayed at them,

3 For the customs and ordinances of the peoples are false, empty, and futile; it is but a tree which one cuts out of the forest [to make for himself a god], the work of the hands of the craftsman with the ax or other tool.

4 They deck [the idol] with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers so it will not fall apart or move around.

5 [Their idols] are like pillars of turned work [as upright and stationary and immobile as a palm tree], like scarecrows in a cucumber field; they cannot speak; they have to be carried, for they cannot walk. Do not be afraid of them, for they cannot do evil, neither is it possible for them to do good [and it is not in them].

Jeremiah 10 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
The Lord and the Idols
10 Family of Israel, listen to the Lord! 2 This is what the Lord says:

“Don’t live like people from other nations.
Don’t be afraid of special signs in the sky.
The other nations are afraid of what they see in the sky.
But you must not be afraid of them.
3 The customs of other people are worth nothing.
Their idols are nothing but wood from the forest.
Their idols are made by workers with their chisels.
4 They make their idols beautiful with silver and gold.
They use hammers and nails to fasten their idols down
so that they will not fall over.
5 The idols of the other nations are like
a scarecrow in a cucumber field.
They cannot walk.
They cannot talk, and the people must carry them.
So don’t be afraid of their idols.
They cannot hurt you.
And they cannot help you either.”

Jeremiah 10 Expanded Bible (EXB)
The Lord and the Idols
10 ·Family [L House] of Israel, ·listen to what [L hear the word that] the Lord says to you. 2 This is what he says:

“Don’t ·live like the people from [L learn the way/path of] other nations,
and don’t be ·afraid of [terrified by] special signs in the ·sky [heavens; C astrology],
even though the other nations are ·afraid [terrified] of them.
3 The ·customs [statutes; ordinances; requirements] of other people are ·worth nothing [meaningless; useless; L a breath].
·Their idols are just wood cut from the forest [L A tree from the forest is cut down],
shaped by a ·worker [craftsman] with his ·chisel [or ax; or adze; or blade].
4 They decorate their idols with silver and gold.
With hammers and nails they fasten them down
so they ·won’t fall over [can’t move].
5 Their idols are like scarecrows in ·melon [or cucumber] fields;
they cannot talk.
Since they cannot walk,
they must be carried.
Do not be afraid of those idols,
because they can’t hurt you,
and they ·can’t help you either [have no power to do good; Is. 40:18–20; 41:7, 29; 44:6–23; 46:5–7].”

10 This message is for all of Israel. Listen to what the Eternal is saying to you.

2 Eternal One: Don’t learn the strange practices and beliefs of other nations.
Don’t be terrified by signs in the sky
just because the other nations are.
3 For their traditions and customs are useless; there is nothing to them.
A tree is cut down in the forest;
then an artisan takes out a tool and carves it into an image.
4 They dress it up with gold and silver to make it more impressive.
Then they nail it down so it won’t fall over!
5 This is what they worship? The idol just stands there—
lifeless, powerless like a scarecrow in a cucumber patch.
It cannot speak. It cannot move. They must pick the thing up and bring it along.
Do you see why there’s nothing to fear from these dead pieces of wood?
They cannot harm you, and they cannot help you either.

From the context and Hebrew, what is done is a tree is stripped of its branches, then carved into an idol. The metals are used to cover the wood image. This is in no way a Christmas Tree.

Genuine Christians Worship Jesus, remember his birth and reason for coming into the world to redeem us. No Christian worships the Xmas Tree. We worship Jesus.

Many Christians recognize his birth as being on Jan 6th.

No Christian who Celebrates Jesus on Christmass is doing what the "heathen" or non-Christians do.

Jason0047 said:

a) Jesus is not a baby right now but He is our risen Lord.

We are never told to honor just a baby Jesus alone,
but we are told to live unto a risen Lord (2 Corinthians 5:15).
Focusing on a baby version of Jesus (without mentioning the resurrection of Christ in our message) is to take the focus off of our risen Lord Jesus Christ. If our message does not include a risen Christ, then our preaching is in vain according to Paul:
"And if Christ be not risen,
then is our preaching vain,
and your faith is also vain." (1 Corinthians 15:14).
Tell me, does Christmas focus on a risen Lord or does it focus on His birth?

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I would argue that it would be wrong to take Christmas in isolation, but is important to consider it as part of the cycle of the whole Church year, which includes celebrations of all aspects of Christ’s life. If seen this way, Christmas is a necessary part of the celebration of Christ’s whole life and ministry, and complements those other parts.

The whole celebration and remembrance of Christ’s life and works takes the whole year, not just a single day...but does include that day within it.

Jason0047 said:

But you are only one person. You cannot change the minds or the rules of how the holiday is generally kept.

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You can't stop everybody else from celebrating either ...

Genesis 24:10 Then the servant gathered together 10 of his master’s camels and left, taking all kinds of valuable gifts from his master to give to his relatives. He traveled all the way to Mesopotamia, to the city of Nahor.

Genesis 25:6 To the sons of his concubines, Abraham gave gifts while he was still alive. But then he sent them away to the east, far away from what would now be his son Isaac’s household.

Genesis 43:26 When Joseph arrived home, they brought the presents into the house. With gifts in hand, they bowed to the ground before him.

Genesis 45:23 To his father, he sent even more: 10 donkeys loaded with the best Egyptian gifts and 10 female donkeys loaded with grain, bread, and provisions for his father for the journey

Psalm 72:10 Let the kings of Tarshish and the island kings shower him with gifts And the kings of Sheba and Seba bring him presents as well.

Proverbs 19:6 Many try to win the favor of a generous person, and everyone is a friend to someone who gives gifts.

Matthew 2:11 and as soon as the wise men arrived, they saw Him with His mother Mary, and they bowed down and worshiped Him. They unpacked their satchels and gave Jesus gifts of gold, frankincense, and myrrh.

Matthew 7:11 So if you, who are sinful, know how to give your children good gifts, how much more so does your Father in heaven, who is perfect, know how to give great gifts to His children!

Acts 24:17 I have been away for several years, so recently I brought gifts for the poor of my nation and offered sacrifices.

Biblicaly speaking there is nothing wrong with giving others gifts.

Christmas is not Biblical, a little history lesson:

When the Catholic church of Rome was converting the Anglo-Saxons of England in 597AD, they sent a Saint Augustine. A letter from the Pope instructed him to use pagan rituals and holy days and convert them to Christian, to make the transition to Christianity easier. One such holy day was yule, which was the Anglo-Saxon pagan festival of the new year.

"Celebration of the Norse New Year; a festival of 12 nights. This is the most important of all the Norse holidays. On the night of December 20, the god Ingvi Freyr rides over the earth on the back of his shining boar, bringing Light and Love back into the World. In later years, after the influence of Christianity, the god Baldur, then Jesus, was reborn at this festival. Jul signifies the beginning and end of all things; the darkest time (shortest hour of daylight) during the year and the brightest hope re-entering the world. During this festival, the Wild Hunt is at its greatest fervor, and the dead are said to range the Earth in its retinue. The god Wotan (Odin) is the leader of this Wild Ride; charging across the sky on his eight-legged horse, Sleipnir; a very awe-inspiring vision. In ancient times, Germanic and Norse children would leave their boots out by the hearth on Solstice Eve, filled with hay and sugar, for Sleipnir's journey. In return, Wotan would leave them a gift for their kindness. In modern times, Sleipnir was changed to a reindeer and the grey-bearded Wotan became the kindly Santa Claus (Father Christmas)."

I'm just here to eat some popcorn and watch the comments. I don't believe in Christmas either. More so the commercialization version of it christians celebrate as if its ok. Trees, gifts, festive lights...etc have nothing to do with Jesus birth.

LoveGodsWord said:

Indeed, Christmas is a pagan festival but why stop there? What about Easter and Sunday worship (too many others)? They are all days of pagan origin. Why have they been adopted by the Mother Chruch and handed down to Protestantism? The mystery of iniquity does already work.

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Let's add every day of the calendar to your point.
Months named after pagan gods.
number system came from ????
Wedding Ring pagan origins
Most food recipes were designed by pagans, should you throw out all your food from stores?
Cement(Romans)
Democracy (Greeks)
60 seconds, 60 minutes 24 hours
The Wheel???
Cars
Vehicles
Algebra
legal system
construction, architecture
spinning and weaving cloth
linen
paper (well papyrus, but close enough)
agriculture
domestication of animals
radiant heat
plumbing
baking
soap
trousers
Public Administration (Sumerians)

Jason0047 said:

But you are only one person. You cannot change the minds or the rules of how the holiday is generally kept.

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I am not the one trying, you are. Right?

Jason0047 said:

You can no more separate materialism from Christmas than you can separate wetness from rain. The two go hand in hand.

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Of course you can separate them. I do every year.

Mal'ak said:

Christmas is not Biblical, a little history lesson:

When the Catholic church of Rome was converting the Anglo-Saxons of England in 597AD, they sent a Saint Augustine. A letter from the Pope instructed him to use pagan rituals and holy days and convert them to Christian, to make the transition to Christianity easier. One such holy day was yule, which was the Anglo-Saxon pagan festival of the new year.

"Celebration of the Norse New Year; a festival of 12 nights. This is the most important of all the Norse holidays. On the night of December 20, the god Ingvi Freyr rides over the earth on the back of his shining boar, bringing Light and Love back into the World. In later years, after the influence of Christianity, the god Baldur, then Jesus, was reborn at this festival. Jul signifies the beginning and end of all things; the darkest time (shortest hour of daylight) during the year and the brightest hope re-entering the world. During this festival, the Wild Hunt is at its greatest fervor, and the dead are said to range the Earth in its retinue. The god Wotan (Odin) is the leader of this Wild Ride; charging across the sky on his eight-legged horse, Sleipnir; a very awe-inspiring vision. In ancient times, Germanic and Norse children would leave their boots out by the hearth on Solstice Eve, filled with hay and sugar, for Sleipnir's journey. In return, Wotan would leave them a gift for their kindness. In modern times, Sleipnir was changed to a reindeer and the grey-bearded Wotan became the kindly Santa Claus (Father Christmas)."

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Source needed for this.

Mal'ak said:

Christmas is not Biblical, a little history lesson:

When the Catholic church of Rome was converting the Anglo-Saxons of England in 597AD, they sent a Saint Augustine. A letter from the Pope instructed him to use pagan rituals and holy days and convert them to Christian, to make the transition to Christianity easier. One such holy day was yule, which was the Anglo-Saxon pagan festival of the new year.

"Celebration of the Norse New Year; a festival of 12 nights. This is the most important of all the Norse holidays. On the night of December 20, the god Ingvi Freyr rides over the earth on the back of his shining boar, bringing Light and Love back into the World. In later years, after the influence of Christianity, the god Baldur, then Jesus, was reborn at this festival. Jul signifies the beginning and end of all things; the darkest time (shortest hour of daylight) during the year and the brightest hope re-entering the world. During this festival, the Wild Hunt is at its greatest fervor, and the dead are said to range the Earth in its retinue. The god Wotan (Odin) is the leader of this Wild Ride; charging across the sky on his eight-legged horse, Sleipnir; a very awe-inspiring vision. In ancient times, Germanic and Norse children would leave their boots out by the hearth on Solstice Eve, filled with hay and sugar, for Sleipnir's journey. In return, Wotan would leave them a gift for their kindness. In modern times, Sleipnir was changed to a reindeer and the grey-bearded Wotan became the kindly Santa Claus (Father Christmas)."

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More anti-catholic propaganda.

Mal'ak said:

begin

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<Mal>Christmas is not Biblical, a little history lesson:
When the Catholic church of Rome was converting the Anglo-Saxons of England in 597AD, they sent a Saint Augustine. A letter from the Pope instructed him to use pagan rituals and holy days and convert them to Christian, to make the transition to Christianity easier. One such holy day was yule, which was the Anglo-Saxon pagan festival of the new year.
"Celebration of the Norse New Year; a festival of 12 nights. This is the most important of all the Norse holidays. On the night of December 20, the god Ingvi Freyr rides over the earth on the back of his shining boar, bringing Light and Love back into the World. In later years, after the influence of Christianity, the god Baldur, then Jesus, was reborn at this festival. Jul signifies the beginning and end of all things; the darkest time (shortest hour of daylight) during the year and the brightest hope re-entering the world. During this festival, the Wild Hunt is at its greatest fervor, and the dead are said to range the Earth in its retinue. The god Wotan (Odin) is the leader of this Wild Ride; charging across the sky on his eight-legged horse, Sleipnir; a very awe-inspiring vision. In ancient times, Germanic and Norse children would leave their boots out by the hearth on Solstice Eve, filled with hay and sugar, for Sleipnir's journey. In return, Wotan would leave them a gift for their kindness. In modern times, Sleipnir was changed to a reindeer and the grey-bearded Wotan became the kindly Santa Claus (Father Christmas)."<end>

end

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And you actually believe all of this? What does a Norse holiday, from Norway, have to do with Anglo-Saxons in Britain? I don't see anything even remotely resembling credible, verifiable, historical evidence. This kind of evidence would be something written by a participant or direct eye witness at the time of the alleged activities. And the name is not Wotan, it is Woden, from which we get the name of Wednesday or Wodens day.

I think that cars and jets are not biblical. Now what?

Jehovah's Witnesses should do away with their Cars.
Henry Ford Discusses Religion with R. W. Trine
Magnate and Murshid
http://nationalheritagemuseum.typep...y-ford-receiving-the-33rd-degree-in-1940.html
"To be fair, both Edison and Ford were holders of any number of strange occult beliefs, and to be honest that part of this story doesn't really interest me. Where I want to wander is this idea of catching a last breath in a bottle and this breath somehow holding a soul or ghost."
Renfusa: Genius in a Bottle: Thomas Edison, Henry Ford, Ghosts, and Genies Thomas Edison - Wikipedia
"Henry Ford was a fan of the New Thought leader Ralph Waldo Trine, and he often gave visitors copies of Trine’s In Tune With the Infinite. "
The Weird World of Occult America -- How Mysticism Shaped Our Nation https://www.google.com/search?q="se...RXK0KHVDRBdsQ5t4CMAB6BAgJEAc&biw=1163&bih=528

"In other words, Ford was such a Edison fanboy he literally asked his son to capture his father’s last breath in a vial so he could keep it forever. According to the legend, the keep sake may have been linked to Henry’s weird obsession with reincarnation, and the idea that our last breath is associated with the soul leaving the body. "The Henry Ford Museum has one of the weirdest Edison artifacts ever

Also, they should turn off their lights too.

Mal'ak said:

Christmas is not Biblical, a little history lesson:

When the Catholic church of Rome was converting the Anglo-Saxons of England in 597AD, they sent a Saint Augustine. A letter from the Pope instructed him to use pagan rituals and holy days and convert them to Christian, to make the transition to Christianity easier. One such holy day was yule, which was the Anglo-Saxon pagan festival of the new year.

"Celebration of the Norse New Year; a festival of 12 nights. This is the most important of all the Norse holidays. On the night of December 20, the god Ingvi Freyr rides over the earth on the back of his shining boar, bringing Light and Love back into the World. In later years, after the influence of Christianity, the god Baldur, then Jesus, was reborn at this festival. Jul signifies the beginning and end of all things; the darkest time (shortest hour of daylight) during the year and the brightest hope re-entering the world. During this festival, the Wild Hunt is at its greatest fervor, and the dead are said to range the Earth in its retinue. The god Wotan (Odin) is the leader of this Wild Ride; charging across the sky on his eight-legged horse, Sleipnir; a very awe-inspiring vision. In ancient times, Germanic and Norse children would leave their boots out by the hearth on Solstice Eve, filled with hay and sugar, for Sleipnir's journey. In return, Wotan would leave them a gift for their kindness. In modern times, Sleipnir was changed to a reindeer and the grey-bearded Wotan became the kindly Santa Claus (Father Christmas)."

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Hyppolytus of Rome wrote in Commentary on the book of Daniel: "For the first advent of our Lord in the flesh, when he was born in Bethlehem, was December 25th, Wednesday, while Augustus was in his forty-second year, but from Adam, five thousand and five hundred years. He suffered in the thirty-third year, March 25th, Friday, the eighteenth year of Tiberius Caesar, while Rufus and Roubellion were Consuls."

That was written in 354 AD.

But for the sake of discussion, let's say you're right about the origin of December 25 (not December 20) as Our Lord's birthday; so what? What difference does it make to anything?

I do not find the pagan origins claims as reliable since they started in propaganda books --- not solid history.

Why I Think Christmas is Not Biblical (Please read OP before posting).

Halloween isn't even over yet

I hope Christmas songs are acceptable.......

LittleLambofJesus said:

Why I Think Christmas is Not Biblical (Please read OP before posting).

Halloween isn't even over yet

I hope Christmas songs are acceptable.......

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I am sure some will say that they are singing about Zeus or something like that.