WHO DO YOU FOLLOW THE TRADITIONS OF MEN OR THE WORD OF GOD (JESUS)?

LittleLambofJesus · Oct 3, 2018

klutedavid said:
Impossible to state whether Jesus rose on the third day. After the third day or even within three days. Because the following verses vary that duration of time, the time from death to the resurrection of the Christ.

Jonah and Jesus is an interesting study.
Jonah is also one of my favorite books of the OT [it seems "Saul/Paul" of the NT also became a type of Jonah]...........

What about Jonah

Jonah 1:
15 And they lift up Jonah, and cast him into the sea, and the sea ceaseth from its raging;
17 And Yahweh appointeth a great fish to swallow up Jonah,
and Jonah is in the bowels of the fish three days and three nights.
Jonah 2:10
And the LORD commanded the fish, and it vomited Jonah onto dry land
Jonah 3: [Acts 9:15]
1 Then the word of Yahweh came to Jonah a second time:
2 “Arise! Go to the great city of Nineveh and proclaim the message that I will give you.”
5 And the Ninevites believed God. [Matthew 12:40-41]
They proclaimed a fast and dressed in sackcloth, from the greatest of them to the least.

Acts 9
15 And the Lord said unto him, 'Be going on, because a choice vessel to Me is this one,
to bear My name before Gentiles/Nations and kings -- the sons also of Israel;
16 I will show him how much he must suffer for My name.”

Click to expand...

The Prophet Jonah is only mentioned in the 2 Gospels of Matthew and Luke in the NT [In John, Peter is referred to as "son of Jonah"]. He is not mentioned in Mark.

"THIS GENERATION" in Bible

Matthew 12:
40 For just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish,
so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
41`Men Ninevites shall be resurrecting/anasthsontai <450> (5698) in the judging with this generation, and they shall be condemning it
that they repent into the proclamation of Jonah and behold! more of Jonah here
Matthew 16:4
A wicked and adulterous generation demands a sign, but none will be given it except the sign of Jonah." Then He left them and went away.

Luke 11:
29 And while the crowds were thickly gathered together, He began to say, “This is an evil generation. It seeks a sign, and no sign will be given to it except the sign of Jonah the prophet
30 for as Jonah became a sign to the Ninevites, so also shall the Son of Man be to this generation.

Lazarus was raised on the 4th day:

John 11:
39 Jesus is saying "take away ye!" the stone.
Martha is saying to Him, the sister of the one having deceased, "Lord, already he stinking, for it is fourth-day
43 And these saying, to a great Voice He cries-out "Lazarus, hither out!"

Lazarus and 2 witnesses of Reve 11 similarity

Like Lazarus in John 11:43, the 2 witnesses are also raised on the 4th day, and like Jesus, they ascended in a cloud:

Revelation 11: [Ezekiel 37:10]
9 And are observing out of the peoples and tribes and tongues and nations the bodies of them three and half days and the bodies of them not they suffer to be placed into tomb.
11 And after three and a half days, a breath of life out of the God entered in them and they stand upon their feet and fear great fall upon the ones observing them.
12 And they hear a great Voice out of the Heaven saying to them "ascend ye here!"
And they ascended into the heaven in the cloud....

Ezekiel 37:
10 So I prophesied as He commanded me and a breath/spirit came into them and they lived and they stood upon their feet, an exceedingly great army.
11 Then He said to me, "Son of adam! these bones are the whole house of Israel.
[Revelation 11:11]

In this Covenantle parable in Luke 16, like the 2 witnesses, Lazarus is shown not being buried and being carried away to Abraham's bosom:

Luke 16:
22 Became yet to be dying the poor-one, and him to be carried away by the Messengers into the Bosom of Abraham.
Died yet also the rich-one and was buried.

30 "And he said, 'Nay! father Abraham;
but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.'
31 But he said to him, 'If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.' "

.

Dan the deacon · Oct 3, 2018

LoveGodsWord said:
Hello Dan, thanks for your thoughts but all I hear is your words over God's WORD. If you have scriptures to support your teachings then share it and let's discuss it. If you haven't then we should believe God's WORD over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God. Jesus says those who follow the teachings and traditions of menthat break the commandments of God are not following God *MATTHEW 15:3.

Why would I share scripture with one I know misuses scripture. A video was posted for you which had much scripture. I doubt you believed it.

Dan the deacon · Oct 3, 2018

Jason0047 said:
Matthew 12:40 says that Jesus will be in the heart of the Earth for three days and three nights. This would be 3 x 24 hour full days. Jesus said there are 12 hours in a day. So this means the night time would also be 12 hours. This makes sense because we have 24 hours in a day.

By this reckoning:
This is what it looks like:

Short Breakdown:

1. Wednesday 3:00PM - 6:00PM (3 hours) - Day Zero.
2. Thursday night - 1st night.
3. Thursday day - 1st day.
4. Friday night - 2nd night.
5. Friday day - 2nd day.
6. Saturday night - 3rd night.
7. Saturday day - 3rd day (9 hours).
(Completion of daylight hours from Wednesday)
(9 hours (Sat.) + 3 hours (Wed.) = 12 hours).

Sunday: Mary and the others arrive to discover Jesus is already risen because the angel said that he was not there but he is risen.

Who counts the first day as day zero. I have never heard a tone do such. In no place does the bible say 3 24 hour periods of time. It says He rose on the third day. As he rose early in the morning of that third day do we also call it day 0. Good grief.

Bible Highlighter · Oct 3, 2018

Dan the deacon said:
Who counts the first day as day zero. I have never heard a tone do such. In no place does the bible say 3 24 hour periods of time. It says He rose on the third day. As he rose early in the morning of that third day do we also call it day 0. Good grief.

Again, Jesus says there 12 hours are in a day.
If you don't believe what He says in this particular instance, I cannot help you.

Also, if you only worked 5 minutes at your job, they would not probably pay you for the whole day unless you have sick time or something. This means you did not work the whole day. You only worked 5 minutes. You cannot say you worked the whole day. In this way, it is the same with saying that a day is not a full 12 hour day if it is only 3 hours left in that day. You cannot say it is a full 12 hour day that Jesus talked about. You may want to do some kind of play on words in how people speak today, but that is not getting to the heart of the truth here.

klutedavid · Oct 3, 2018

LittleLambofJesus said:
Jonah and Jesus is an interesting study.
Jonah is also one of my favorite books of the OT [it seems "Saul/Paul" of the NT also became a type of Jonah]...........

What about Jonah

Jonah 1:
15 And they lift up Jonah, and cast him into the sea, and the sea ceaseth from its raging;
17 And Yahweh appointeth a great fish to swallow up Jonah,
and Jonah is in the bowels of the fish three days and three nights.
Jonah 2:10
And the LORD commanded the fish, and it vomited Jonah onto dry land
Jonah 3: [Acts 9:15]
1 Then the word of Yahweh came to Jonah a second time:
2 “Arise! Go to the great city of Nineveh and proclaim the message that I will give you.”
5 And the Ninevites believed God. [Matthew 12:40-41]
They proclaimed a fast and dressed in sackcloth, from the greatest of them to the least.
The Prophet Jonah is only mentioned in the 2 Gospels of Matthew and Luke in the NT [In John, Peter is referred to as "son of Jonah"]. He is not mentioned in Mark.

"THIS GENERATION" in Bible

Matthew 12:
40 For just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish,
so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
41`Men Ninevites shall be resurrecting/anasthsontai <450> (5698) in the judging with this generation, and they shall be condemning it
that they repent into the proclamation of Jonah and behold! more of Jonah here
Matthew 16:4
A wicked and adulterous generation demands a sign, but none will be given it except the sign of Jonah." Then He left them and went away.

Luke 11:
29 And while the crowds were thickly gathered together, He began to say, “This is an evil generation. It seeks a sign, and no sign will be given to it except the sign of Jonah the prophet
30 for as Jonah became a sign to the Ninevites, so also shall the Son of Man be to this generation.

Lazarus was raised on the 4th day:

John 11:
39 Jesus is saying "take away ye!" the stone.
Martha is saying to Him, the sister of the one having deceased, "Lord, already he stinking, for it is fourth-day
43 And these saying, to a great Voice He cries-out "Lazarus, hither out!"

Lazarus and 2 witnesses of Reve 11 similarity

Like Lazarus in John 11:43, the 2 witnesses are also raised on the 4th day, and like Jesus, they ascended in a cloud:

Revelation 11: [Ezekiel 37:10]
9 And are observing out of the peoples and tribes and tongues and nations the bodies of them three and half days and the bodies of them not they suffer to be placed into tomb.
11 And after three and a half days, a breath of life out of the God entered in them and they stand upon their feet and fear great fall upon the ones observing them.
12 And they hear a great Voice out of the Heaven saying to them "ascend ye here!"
And they ascended into the heaven in the cloud....

In this Covenantle parable in Luke 16, like the 2 witnesses, Lazarus is shown not being buried and being carried away to Abraham's bosom:

Luke 16:
22 Became yet to be dying the poor-one, and him to be carried away by the Messengers into the Bosom of Abraham.
Died yet also the rich-one and was buried.

30 "And he said, 'Nay! father Abraham;
but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.'
31 But he said to him, 'If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.' "

.

The problem with Jesus in the tomb for three days and three nights, is that this interpretation forces a fourth day resurrection of the Christ. Beware of turning a figure of speech into a doctrine.

LittleLambofJesus · Oct 3, 2018

klutedavid said:
The problem with Jesus in the tomb for three days and three nights, is that this interpretation forces a fourth day resurrection of the Christ. Beware of turning a figure of speech into a doctrine.

I didn't realize there was such a controversy on that until I ran into this thread[it actually split]:

https://www.christianforums.com/threads/three-days-and-three-nights.7450784/#post-54337410
Three Days and Three Nights

I know the issue of fitting Matthew 12:40 into a Friday/Sunday period has been discussed before, but does anyone have any historical documentation that shows that the phrase; “ 3 days AND 3 nights”, was a unique first century idiom of Hebrew/Aramaic/Greek which could mean something different than what the phrase means in English?

In other words,whenever the three days and three nights of Matthew 12:40 is brought up in a "discussion" with 6th day crucifixion folks, they frequently argue that it is a Jewish idiom for counting any part of a day as a whole day. I wonder if anyone has documentation that shows that a phrase stating a certain number of days, as well as a certain number of nights was ever used in the first century or before when it absolutely didn’t include at least parts of the specified number of days and at least parts of the specified number of nights?

https://www.christianforums.com/threads/three-days-and-three-nights-2.7765027/
Three Days and Three Nights (2)

https://www.christianforums.com/thr...-days-and-three-nights.8067061/#post-72741362
Jesus was in the tomb three days and three nights

Quasar92 said:
Jesus was in His tomb three days and three nights. What day was He crucified on?

What Day of the Week Was Christ Crucified?

IMO, I see Mt.12:40 fulfilled in the following way: Keep in mind there were two Sabbaths that week:

The Hebrew day begins at sunset the day before and fulfills the prophecy:

Wednesday @ sunset = Thursday = 24 hours

Thursday @ sunset = Friday = 24 hours = Passover Sabbath

Friday @ sunset = Saturday =24 hours = seventh day Sabbath

Sunday morning, first day of the week = Jesus resurrected.

Describes Jesus in the tomb for three days and three nights, confirming Mt.12:40.

From another source: What Day of the Week Was Christ Crucified?

See here also: Resurrection When?
Quasar92

stephen pollard · Oct 3, 2018

bekkilyn said:
Now you're back to posting the same old concordances as if more random scripture is better than relevant scripture. Your interpretations are way, way off, which is why I would hope you would ask the Holy Spirit to allow you discernment because you just can't seem to see the new covenant. When your focus is on something other than God, that's idolatry. I have a better idea though of why you cannot seem to understand Jesus' commandment of loving each other as he loves us though because your interpretation of love is all master/slave rather than agape.

This type of loveless "love" focused on the law rather than Jesus is exactly opposite of the good news, which should be a large hint with flashing lights that your interpretation is off track.

But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code. Rom7:6

Undoubtedly, there can be no agreement between those who follow after the written code and those who follow after the Holy Spirit. According to Paul it is one or the other. Choose the wrong one, and you must stumble along in the darkness, for only the Holy Spirit can lead us into spiritual truth and the light

LoveGodsWord · Oct 3, 2018

bekkilyn said:
Maybe you just need to watch the video I posted if you truly do not understand because I don't believe you're actually listening to people when you respond with the same generic stuff, and fall back on "do you have any scriptures?" or accusations that people are lying, whenever you have no real defense for your claims.

Maybe you need to read the scriptures provided to you? They are God's WORD not mine. If you read all my posts you will see I do indeed read and understand what is written in them. Then I reply to to these posts, section by section and scripture by scripture examining the context. If I agree I say so if not then I provide God's WORD showing why not.

If I say do you have any scriptures? It is because you are only using your own words over God's WORD and do not respond to the posts and the scriptures provided only as a help to you.

It is you that is the one that is full of accusations you cannot prove. When you are challenged on your accusations and asked to prove them, you cannot. If your not able to prove your accusations then it is simply misinformation and slander on your part. This is sad for you. If you disagree then prove your claims with God's WORD and address the post and scriptures in them that disagree with you. Only God's WORD is true and we should believe and follow it.

LoveGodsWord · Oct 3, 2018

Dan the deacon said:
Why would I share scripture with one I know misuses scripture. A video was posted for you which had much scripture. I doubt you believed it.

Well this is the point Dan, if you have God's WORD to share then share it. If you do not then you are only speaking your own words over God's WORD. When scriptures is provided that disagrees with you then you choose to ignore it neither will you respond to it but simply provide your own words over God's WORD and make accusation you cannot prove with scripture. Please tell me what is it in that video that has not already been addressed here in this forum? Where have I misused scripoture post a link and prove it. So far you haven't been able to prove anything except make accusations you cannot prove. Only God's WORD is true and we should believe and follow it over the teachings of men that break the commandments of God *MATTHEW 15:3.

bekkilyn · Oct 3, 2018

LoveGodsWord said:
Maybe you need to read the scriptures provided to you? They are God's WORD not mine. If you read all my posts you will see I do indeed listen what is written in them. Then I reply to to these posts, section by section and scripture by scripture examining the context. If I agree I say so if not then I provide God's WORD showing why not.

So you refuse to watch the video, even though I have watched videos you have posted? Are you afraid you might learn something?

There is no point to responding to you scripture by scripture because everyone knows that you will just say "Nope, not true. You are speaking falsely." to every single thing, and then post the same generic concordance that proves that you aren't really listening to anything anyone says. We have done it before. Many times. No one is falling for it again.

If I say do you have any scriptures? It is because many including youself only provide your own words over God's WORD and do not respond to the posts and the scriptures provided only as a help to you.

That is because we are supposed to be having a *discussion* about the topic and the scriptures, and not a scripture posting context.

It is you that is the one that is full of accusations you cannot prove. When you are challenged on your accusations and asked to prove them, you cannot. If your not able to prove your accusations then it is simply misinformation and slander on your part. This is sad for you.

I don't have to prove any accusations. Your own posts speak for themselves that the law is central to your faith. Everything else is either secondary, or you deny it completely.

Only God's WORD is true bekkilyn, do you have any to share?

God's Word may be true, but your word isn't God's Word.

LoveGodsWord · Oct 3, 2018

bekkilyn said:
So you refuse to watch the video, even though I have watched videos you have posted? Are you afraid you might learn something?

I did indeed start watching it and it was only a re-hash of everything already adressed with the scriptures here in the Forum. Please by all means if you disagree post what you feel is relevant here and prove your case with God's WORD and let's discuss it. Why would you point all to videos that you cannot respond back to when we can discuss the WORD of GOD and examine them to see if what people are claiming is true ot not?

bekkilyn said:
There is no point to responding to you scripture by scripture because everyone knows that you will just say "Nope, not true. You are speaking falsely." to every single thing, and then post the same generic concordance that proves that you aren't really listening to anything anyone says. We have done it before. Many times. No one is falling for it again.

Well that is not true. If I respond by saying something is not true I will go through what was written with a detailed response showing why something cannot be true with God's WORD showing the within scripture and chapter context through a post section by section and scripture by scripture. If you disagree with what has been posted then prove your claims with God's WORD. Only God's WORD is true and we should believe and follow it. If you cannot prove any of your accusations and only sharing your own words that is all they are. The scriptures posted to you are God's WORD not mine. Your argument is therefore with God not me.

bekkilyn said:
That is because we are supposed to be having a *discussion* about the topic and the scriptures, and not a scripture posting context.

If you have a discussion in a Christian forum then the final authority is the Word of God. It is only God's WORD that is true and we should believe and follow it *ROMANS 1:5. How can you have a discussion in a Christian Forum if you do not have God's WORD to support your discussion?

Hope this helps.

bekkilyn · Oct 3, 2018

LoveGodsWord said:
I did indeed start watching it and it was only a re-hash of everything already adressed with the scriptures here in the Forum. Please by all means if you disagree post what you feel is relevant here and prove your case with God's WORD and let's discuss it. Why would you point all to videos that you cannot respond back to when we can discuss the WORD of GOD and examine them to see if what people are claiming is true ot not?

I thought that since you were unable to understand my words, that you would be able to better understand someone else who was presenting everything (along with much of your requested scripture) in a more structured format.

If all you did was start watching it, you've already missed the message...again.

Well that is not true. If I respond by saying something is not true I will go through what was written with a detailed response showing why something cannot be true with God's WORD showing the within scripture and chapter context through a post section by section and scripture by scripture. If you disagree with what has been posted then prove your claims with God's WORD. Only God's WORD is true and we should believe and follow it. If you cannot prove any of your accusations and only sharing your own words that is all they are. The scriptures posted to you are God's WORD not mine. Your argument is therefore with God not me.

Nope, my argument is most certainly with you as you contort "God's WORD" to read into scriptures what isn't there, and through your central focus on the law, what is clearly in opposition to the intended message of the gospel.

If you have a discussion in a Christian forum then the final authority is the Word of God. It is only God's WORD that is true and we should believe and follow it *ROMANS 1:5. How can you have a discussion in a Christian Forum if you do not have God's WORD to support your discussion?

Hope this helps.

The final authority may very well be the Word of God, but it's not *your* word. If you were actually proclaiming the gospel, there would be no argument.

LoveGodsWord · Oct 3, 2018

bekkilyn said:
I thought that since you were unable to understand my words, that you would be able to better understand someone else who was presenting everything (along with much of your requested scripture) in a more structured format.

I understood your words the first time thanks bekkilyn, that is why I provided God's WORDS as they disagreed with you. Only God's WORD is true and we should believe and follow it *ROMANS 1:5.

bekkilyn said:
If all you did was start watching it, you've already missed the message...again.

The video you posted was only a rehash of what has already been discussed here already. If you think that there is something new that needs discussion then post it and let's discuss it and compare it against the scriptures?

bekkilyn said:
Nope, my argument is most certainly with you as you contort "God's WORD" to read into scriptures what isn't there, and through your central focus on the law, what is clearly in opposition to the intended message of the gospel.The final authority may very well be the Word of God, but it's not *your* word. If you were actually proclaiming the gospel, there would be no argument.

Really? Then post a link to what you claim is something I have contorted and that is an opposition to the gospel and let's see if there is any truth in your accusations? So far you are only full of your own words when I have posted God's WORD. So as shown earlier your argument is with God not me because they are God's WORD not mine. You speak your own words making claims and accusations you are not able to prove to be true with God's WORD. It is God's WORD that shall judge is all come judgment day *JOHN 12:47-48. Does that not bother you? Only God's WORD is true and we should believe and follow it *ROMANS 1:5; MATTHEW 15:3-9

stephen pollard · Oct 3, 2018

I would like to know why seventh day Adventists do not understand the ten commandments. Only one of their members has said that if you commit any sin you break the ten commandments, as those commands cover every law of God he wants you to follow, they are all rooted in the Ten Commandments. So if(or when) seventh day Adventists commit ''unknown sin'' this obviously shows they are in ignorance as to what those commands entail in following them, according to what their members state

LoveGodsWord · Oct 4, 2018

stephen pollard said:
I would like to know why seventh day Adventists do not understand the ten commandments. Only one of their members has said that if you commit any sin you break the ten commandments, as those commands cover every law of God he wants you to follow, they are all rooted in the Ten Commandments. So if(or when) seventh day Adventists commit ''unknown sin'' this obviously shows they are in ignorance as to what those commands entail in following them, according to what their members state

Please stop making things up. Let us know when you have some scripture to share would be nice.

stephen pollard · Oct 4, 2018

So, it is denied that it has been stated by seventh day Adventist if you commit any sin you break the ten commandments, for all the commands you are to follow as a Christian is rooted in those commandments? Hmmm, very interesting. The ninth one comes to mind.

stephen pollard · Oct 4, 2018

The only way you can take the Lords name in vain without being conscious you sin by doing so is if that law is not written in your mind and placed on your heart, which it is obviously

stephen pollard · Oct 4, 2018

When people cherry pick the letter of the law, and demand you perform perfect under it or can no longer be in a justified state, when people admit to committing sin, but are not guilty of committing sin for they do not know they are sinning, when people ask of you what they do not ask of themselves, this is all based on one common denominator, they do not have the guidance of the Holy Spirit in their life. Fir they follow after the written code rather than the Holy Spirit, and it has to be one or the other. The love of God is neglected, as is love for your neighbour. The two commandments upon which the entire law hangs are being ignored. It is just cold, hard religion, and frighteningly so. There is no point in discussing with such people, for they will go on and on rigidly quoting the cherry picked letter devoid of the love, mercy and compassion of God which underwrites the message concerning the love God has for his children.
I can only repeat, there is no love or mercy in a message of: Perform perfect or be threatened with the fires of hell. However people try to skilfully word it, that is the message they are proclaiming

stephen pollard · Oct 4, 2018

Basically, they turn up at church each week, immaculately dressed with a bible tucked under their arm. And they relish in quoting it when they are there. However, the act put on in church has no bearing on the reality of their own life. When they stress law, what they mean is: I do not smoke, drink, have affairs, use foul language, I tithe my money, avidly read the scriptures, and attend all the religious meetings etc. This sets me apart from others who will end up in hell.

Unfortunately, they fail to realise the Pharisees of Jesus day would have passed all those tests with flying colours.

LoveGodsWord · Oct 4, 2018

stephen pollard said:
Basically, they turn up at church each week, immaculately dressed with a bible tucked under their arm. And they relish in quoting it when they are there. However, the act put on in church has no bearing on the reality of their own life. When they stress law, what they mean is: I do not smoke, drink, have affairs, use foul language, I tithe my money, avidly read the scriptures, and attend all the religious meetings etc. This sets me apart from others who will end up in hell.

Unfortunately, they fail to realise the Pharisees of Jesus day would have passed all those tests with flying colours.

Hi Stephen, so? I see you have no scripture to share. So you know the scripture that says out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks? Your sounding pretty judgmental my friend when you do not know anyones heart for what they do. Something for you to think about I guess.

May God help you as you seek him through his Word.

WHO DO YOU FOLLOW THE TRADITIONS OF MEN OR THE WORD OF GOD (JESUS)?

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

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