Giving up Christmas

David Cabrera said:

The Church has always about being part of a community. The idea of God, me and my Bible is just an innovation.

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It is about community, but it was never about bureaucracy, and buildings, and running empires. It was about a one to one spread of the gospel and then joining together with fellow believers to keep each other strong in a sinful world. And knowing the Word (now that we have it) is essential; if you don't know what God said, then you are open to anything you are told. If it disagrees with the Word, it is not of God. You have to know what it says, though it is also never just a "me and my Bible" thing, though you will learn little if you are putting in no time.

We've gone far astray of what Jesus intended, without our huge bureaucracies run like businesses.

RestoreTheJoy said:

It is about community, but it was never about bureaucracy, and buildings, and running empires. It was about a one to one spread of the gospel and then joining together with fellow believers to keep each other strong in a sinful world. And knowing the Word (now that we have it) is essential; if you don't know what God said, then you are open to anything you are told. If it disagrees with the Word, it is not of God. You have to know what it says, though it is also never just a "me and my Bible" thing, though you will learn little if you are putting in no time.

We've gone far astray of what Jesus intended, without our huge bureaucracies run like businesses.

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And how you know that your interpretation is the one God intended? That some part of the Church had more power than the other doesn't mean that the local places will be like that too.

David Cabrera said:

And how you know that your interpretation is the one God intended? That some part of the Church had more power than the other doesn't mean that the local places will be like that too.

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Because I can read the gospels. Jesus made it pretty clear what He wanted us to do. And we created programs.

RestoreTheJoy said:

Because I can read the gospels. Jesus made it pretty clear what He wanted us to do. And we created programs.

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I can read the gospels too and I believe my interpretation would be different.

David Cabrera said:

I can read the gospels too and I believe my interpretation would be different.

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So what do you think Jesus wanted the apostles to do? And all those who are far off (Acts 2)? He gave plenty of instructions to the disciples, after telling them to wait for the power of the Holy Spirit to come upon them (Acts 2) so they had the power to be His witnesses:

These, for example (though there are others):

Matthew 4:23-25 (what He did)
23 And Jesus went about in all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of disease and all manner of sickness among the people. 24 And the report of him went forth into all Syria: and they brought unto him all that were sick, holden with divers diseases and torments, possessed with demons, and epileptic, and palsied; and he healed them. 25 And there followed him great multitudes from Galilee and Decapolis and Jerusalem and Judaea and from beyond the Jordan.

What he told the disciples to do, first the 12, and then 72:

Luke 9:1 When Jesus had called the Twelve together, he gave them power and authority to drive out all demons and to cure diseases, 2 and he sent them out to preach the kingdom of God and to heal the sick.

Matthew 10:1 He called his twelve disciples to him and gave them authority to drive out evil spirits and to heal every disease and sickness. 8 Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy, drive out demons.

Luke 10:1 After this the Lord appointed seventy-two others and sent them two by two ahead of him to every town and place where he was about to go. 9 Heal the sick who are there and tell them, ‘The kingdom of God is near you.’


Matthew 10: (The warnings of how that would be received):


16“Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves; so be shrewd as serpents and innocent as doves. 17“But beware of men, for they will hand you over to the courts and scourge you in their synagogues; 18and you will even be brought before governors and kings for My sake, as a testimony to them and to the Gentiles. 19“But when they hand you over, do not worry about how or what you are to say; for it will be given you in that hour what you are to say. 20“For it is not you who speak, but it is the Spirit of your Father who speaks in you.

21“Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; and children will rise up against parents and cause them to be put to death. 22“You will be hated by all because of My name, but it is the one who has endured to the end who will be saved.

23“But whenever they persecute you in one city, flee to the next; for truly I say to you, you will not finish going through the cities of Israel until the Son of Man comes.

Great Commission:


Mark 16: 14Afterward He appeared to the eleven themselves as they were reclining at the table; and He reproached them for their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they had not believed those who had seen Him after He had risen. 15And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. 16“He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned. 17“These signs will accompany those who have believed: in My name they will cast out demons, they will speak with new tongues; 18they will pick up serpents, and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.”

19So then, when the Lord Jesus had spoken to them, He was received up into heaven and sat down at the right hand of God. 20And they went out and preached everywhere, while the Lord worked with them, and confirmed the word by the signs that followed.]


Do the bureaucracies today look anything like this to you? There are pockets of believers really seeking Jesus and His truth and His way, but generally, it's pretty much a business out there. How to grow your church, how to retain people, how to get tithe money, etc. Business.

Anyway, did not mean to derail this thread about Christmas! I did comment on Christmas and I do understand the Original poster's views. We didn't decorate for Christmas for many, many years, and I really don't care about it now, though it doesn't bother me. The Kingdom is what matters to me.

David Cabrera said:

And how you know that your interpretation is the one God intended? That some part of the Church had more power than the other doesn't mean that the local places will be like that too.

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We don't always know what God is saying in the gospels but our interpretation is not as important as digging in and studying to see what He is saying. There are tools for that too. Things like, who wrote this? Who was the intended audience? Where and when was it being written? What is the cultural significance of what is written? What style of writing is it? Historical record? Poetry? Letter? What are the different covenants and how do they apply to us today? There is a whole lot more of course. A good translation and a good commentary also helps.
What is a good translation or commentary? That is up to you to decide but there are resources that explain the difference between translations. Is a commentary colored by the writers personal view or denomination? Are we okay with that?
Some of my favorite resources are "Strong's Exhaustive Concordane of the Bible."
I also like "Grasping God's Word" a hands on approach to reading, interpreting and applying the Bible. By J. Scott Duvall and J. Daniel Hays. This one is not a commentary but a textbook on how to study the Bible that goes over a lot of the things I listed above.
Got a used hardcover copy of this book for $11.48 at Thriftbooks.com. The book is in very good condition. Love that site for used books. New & Used Books from ThriftBooks | Buy Cheap Books Online You won't find too many new best sellers there but it is a great resource for older books and for textbooks.

If we are to go by the Bible, let's go by the Bible. The Bible says not to do what the pagans do and say we are doing it for Him. The pagans celebrated the birthday of their pagan gods, again with child sacrifice, on December 25th long before the birth of the Savior. The Bible says absolutely zero about Him being born on December 25, kn December, or even n the winter.

Messiah said to the pharisees "Thus you nullify the Scriptures by your traditions of men."

LoricaLady said:

If we are to go by the Bible, let's go by the Bible. The Bible says not to do what the pagans do and say we are doing it for Him. The pagans celebrated the birthday of their pagan gods, again with child sacrifice, on December 25th long before the birth of the Savior. The Bible says absolutely zero about Him being born on December 25, kn December, or even n the winter.

Messiah said to the pharisees "Thus you nullify the Scriptures by your traditions of men."

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No pagan celebrated a child sacrifice on December 25.
The Bible never says to follow only the Bible, even more, there is no "Bible" word there.

Kota said:

It really does make me upset when somebody pretty much says because you celebrating holidays, you are becoming like the world and going to hell. I dont think that automatically celebrating a holiday is making you become like the world. Like I had said before, it is a matter of conscience on these gray areas. Maybe in a few years, my opinions will change and maybe Ill celebrate Christmas. God bless.

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This is just what I've been trying to say — there is a world of difference between someone saying "I choose not to celebrate Christmas myself, but I completely understand why most other Christians do and I respect everyone's right to choose for themselves" and someone condemning Christmas and/or other holidays as pagan and worldly and un-Biblical and everyone who celebrates these special days as utterly wrong and less truly Christian. That (as others have said) is just pure legalism and comes naturally with a good dose of ego-stoking for oneself ("God, I thank you that I am not like other men...") — the very sort of thing that Jesus himself condemned so often. For those with that attitude, I can only say... happy Pharisee-mas to you all.

You understand that even if you don't like christmas it is a good opportunity to reunite and have a good time with your family? you are going to spoil that? grow up more if you do. Jesus had dinner with sinners maybe because he thought it as an opportunity to draw them to him or maybe other reasons, but not because he liked what they were doing.

We don't celebrate the "commercial" end of Christmas. No gifts, no tree...etc. We have a manger scene setup and thats its. Its about the birth of Christ. Of course while it feels good theres alot of pressure dealing with people who argue with us about why we don't celebrate it like they do. But it feels good to not celebrate all of it.

Well praise GOD..good for you. Me we LOVE the fact Christ came and died rose for the WORLD. For me.. what some man or demon or fallen angel did on some day or how they used some tree or what ever.. mattes not to me. See my Father made the days and all we see. So its what I do with it..in regards to Christmas..so lets not get silly here.

Xmas.. for me Christ came.. I will now and forever love that.. and want to let Him know every day ever moment what JOY that brings me and EVERY angel in heaven rejoiced. And remember there's no TIME there..so it happen 2k years go or just 2 days..so for all we know they are STILL rejoicing.. its only been two days

A tree? Again.. for me its to HIM I do give glory. We are FREE..so what you want to do personally on XMAS.

Again its not what so so did or what some group did. I heard Christ came and died. And we rejoice during Dec. I know that is not the real date. My FATHER knows my heart..what man thinks.. well as the word says.. I am not here to please man but my Father.

Again your FATHER AKA GOD made all made the days.. who has power over that more then your Father? Who would give more power to man over a day or date then giving to your Father? This is how I see it.

NBB said:

Please don't trust youtube videos, ask some pastors better.

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I am not a new Christian. I have studied God's Word for many years and know many things in His Word that some Pastors don't even know about.

In any event, I do not wish to debate in an advice thread.
So I created another thread with my reasons in Scripture why Christians should not celebrate Christmas.

Why I Think Christmas is Not Biblical (Please read OP before posting).

May God's goodness be upon you this fine day;
And may you please be well.

Kota said:

It really does make me upset when somebody pretty much says because you celebrating holidays, you are becoming like the world and going to hell. I dont think that automatically celebrating a holiday is making you become like the world. Like I had said before, it is a matter of conscience on these gray areas. Maybe in a few years, my opinions will change and maybe Ill celebrate Christmas. God bless.

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I can understand that kind of feeling;
But is it possible that some may draw near to the Lord with their lips but their hearts are far from Him? I say this because Christmas to me seems to go against the teachings of Jesus Christ in some ways. I am not saying all Christians who celebrate Christmas are automatically condemned (Only God truly knows that), but I think we also have to have a healthy fear of God and live holy and separate in this life and strive to put away worldly things. If not, we could end up going prodigal (after being caught up in the web of the world's ways).

David Cabrera said:

No pagan celebrated a child sacrifice on December 25.
The Bible never says to follow only the Bible, even more, there is no "Bible" word there.

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This is not a debate forum. You are supposed to address your comments to the OP. I trust her to have the intelligence to make her own decisions.

LoricaLady said:

This is not a debate forum. You are supposed to address your comments to the OP. I trust her to have the intelligence to make her own decisions.

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I am just informing you.

David Cabrera said:

I am just informing you.

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You imagine that you are informing me. The rules are that you are to address your remarks to the OP. Period.

Op:
No pagan celebrated a child sacrifice on December 25.
Don't let you stopping celebrating Christ's birth for some myths.

Don't follow the ones who "devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. Such things promote controversial speculations rather than advancing God's work--which is by faith." (1 Timothy 1:4)