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Is baptism a requirement for salvation?
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Alithis
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.. great .. of we go then do whatever we wish .do good do evil sin freely its all done ,just cruise your way to eternity --yeah , i know our not saying that. but you imply it regardless .And such a person living that way is responding to god from a clear conscience and their response is to rebel .. they will not be saved . Abraham did not rebel .. he responded correctly , obediently . by the way it plainy does not say it does not involves faith but that it is by grace THROUGH faith .. faith is not a thing you have it is an action you do . no action = no faith .
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Alithis
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there is no such thing as infant baptism .. one repents and having done so obeys god in baptism . one does not baptize in order to repent . its like saying you should go to the hospital and have an adult ,that then becomes a baby 20 years later . nope you have a baby that grows to an adult .
i already know that wil fly over the roost
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Alithis
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johns baptism by water was unto repentance .. then they got baptized in water into the death and Resurrection of Christ .. but BOTH were of water .
your theory of it being NOT water ..is absolute in its error and has zero plain unambiguous basis in scripture . its a false teaching .
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ItIsFinished!
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Ok... you say it is my interpretation. None of my Commentary provided. You can not claim it to be my "interpretation" then. See the verses highlighted in red. Please read all of them in entirety.
Please note John's baptism was baptism by water... remember Jesus was baptized by him. Now we are baptized by water into the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. Both are water baptism. My point water baptism verses HS baptism is different.
John 3:5 : I provided born in the Greek which means both birth and water baptism.
3:5 [ Greek Font Size: BYZ / TR | Jesus answered (5662) , Verily, verily, I say (5719) unto thee, Except a man be born (5686) of water and of the Spirit, he cannot * (5736) enter (5629) into the kingdom of God.
Acts 8:5-8, 14-17: HS imparted after yet seperate from the baptism of water into Jesus
8:15 [ Greek Font Size: BYZ / TR | Who, when they were come down (5631) , prayed (5662) for them, that they might receive (5632) the Holy Ghost:
8:16 [ Greek Font Size: BYZ / TR | (For as yet he was (5713) fallen (5761) upon none of them: only they were (5707) baptized (5772) in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
8:17 [ Greek Font Size: BYZ / TR | Then laid they (5707) their hands on them, and they received (5707) the HolyGhost.
8:18 [ Greek Font Size: BYZ / TR | And when Simon saw (5666) that through laying on of the apostles' hands the HolyGhost was given (5743) , he offered (5656) them money,
Acts 11: 12 - 18: Baptism of the Holy Ghost
11:15 [ Greek Font Size: BYZ / TR | And as I began (5670) to speak (5721) , the Holy Ghost fell (5627) on them, as * * on us at the beginning.
11:16 [ Greek Font Size: BYZ / TR | Then remembered I (5681) the word of the Lord, how that he said (5707) , Johnindeed baptized (5656) with water; but ye shall be baptized (5701) with the HolyGhost.
11:17 [ Greek Font Size: BYZ / TR | Forasmuch then as God gave (5656) them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed (5660) on the Lord Jesus Christ *; what was (5713) I, that I couldwithstand (5658) God?
11:18 [ Greek Font Size: BYZ / TR | When they heard (5660) these things, they held their peace (5656) , and glorified(5707) God, saying (5723) , Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted (5656) repentance unto life.
Acts 2: 1 - 4 ; 17: Infilling of the HS without baptism by water
2:3 [ Greek Font Size: BYZ / TR | And there appeared (5681) unto them cloven (5730) tongues like as of fire, and it sat (5656) upon each of them.
2:4 [ Greek Font Size: BYZ / TR | And they were all filled (5681) with the Holy Ghost, and began (5662) to speak with(5721) other tongues, as the Spirit gave (5707) them utterance (5738)
2:17 [ Greek Font Size: BYZ / TR | And it shall come to pass (5704) in the last days, saith (5719) God, I will pour out(5692) of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy(5692) , and your young men shall see (5695) visions, and your old men shall dream dreams (5701)
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Not David
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Can you tell me what is "The Baptism of the Holy Spirit" supposed to be? If it is speaking in tongues, does that mean most of the people who don't speak in tongues aren't saved?
You say that "water baptism" is natural birth, does that mean that non-born children aren't saved?
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Water was a placeholder for repentance. The Old Covenant believers were only observing the minor points of the law, which identified them with descent from Abraham, circumcision and tithing of mint and cummin, which promised an unconditional blessing, not requiring obedience. However that was a separate covenant, and not the Sinaitic Covenant, which had results of blessings for obedience and curses for disbelief according to Deuternomy 29. In other words John was teaching the need for justice, mercy and faithfulness to God's character, the more important points of the law. to avoid the curses, escape from the impending wrath, the temblors of which were already being felt, with exile out of Jerusalem looming, Pilate's sacrilegeous acts of defilement in the Temple freshening recent memory, and the Tower of Siloam disaster killing several hundreds. Study John's teachings for these points
Luke 3:7So he began saying to the crowds who were going out to be baptized by him, “You brood of vipers, who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? 8“Therefore bear fruits in keeping with repentance, and do not begin to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham for our father,’ for I say to you that from these stones God is able to raise up children to Abraham. 9“Indeed the axe is already laid at the root of the trees; so every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.”
10And the crowds were questioning him, saying, “Then what shall we do?” 11And he would answer and say to them, “The man who has two tunics is to share with him who has none; and he who has food is to do likewise.” 12And some tax collectors also came to be baptized, and they said to him, “Teacher, what shall we do?” 13And he said to them, “Collect no more than what you have been ordered to.” 14Some soldiers were questioning him, saying, “And what about us, what shall we do?” And he said to them, “Do not take money from anyone by force, or accuse anyone falsely, and be content with your wages.”
15Now while the people were in a state of expectation and all were wondering in their hearts about John, as to whether he was the Christ, 16John answered and said to them all, “As for me, I baptize you with water; but One is coming who is mightier than I, and I am not fit to untie the thong of His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.
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Baptism of the Holy Spirit is the infilling of the Holy Spirit when he comes upon you.
Speaking in tongues is one of the signs. If you dont speak in tongues it does not automatically mean you are not saved. Speaking in tongues is one result of the Holy Spirit's infilling.
Salvation is not the same as Baptism of the Holy Spirit. The baptism of the Holy Spirit comes after salvation but not everyone that is saved is Baptized in the Holy Spirit.. Just like people who are saved are not always baptized in water yet.
All people born are physically born of a woman (unless we have clones yet), thus all are born from water... you have to open the placenta no matter if it is c-section or natural birth. Where did i say natural birth? It means to be born and begotten as well as water baptism. Arent you born if you are a c-section and by normal process?
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The Baptism of the Holy Spirit is being baptised into the New Covenant, staring off a process that ends with justification, being a blessing to the world. The Old Covenant couldn't justify, could only protect, was a pedagogos, babysitter, until Christ came,
Your name is written into the Book of life, as you lead people out of Egypt, by the Finger of God, which you received when you were baptised into Christ, upon belief that resurrection would occur when you picked up a cross. You can't lead people out of Egypt unless you are equipped with the Finger of God, which Moses asked for, before he set off for Egypt.
If your Pastor asked you to evangelise, you'd have to ask him how you could do it, without having something that prised people out of Egypt.
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There IS such a thing as infant baptism, and I would say that it is done to the vast majority of people.
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One baptism; into the church, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ and done by a member of the clergy - performed on two occasions.
The first time, I was an unbelieving, unconsenting baby who had no idea what was happening; the second time I was a Christian, consenting adult, someone who had asked to be baptised and wanted to confess Christ. The first time, I was not a Christian and didn't know what Christianity, or anything else, was; the second time I had been a Christian for some years. The first time, I may well have cried, because I didn't know what was happening; the second time I was happy, peaceful and aware of the presence of God.
We could have an academic debate about which was correct, we could speculate about which was more pleasing to God - but it wouldn't change anything. Becoming a Christian was separate from the moment of baptism - not part of the process.
Many, many people are baptised as babies and may never become Christians - my brothers, for one.
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But not necessarily.
For John 15:2a shows that Christians, who are branches in the vine of Jesus Christ, can wrongly employ their free will in such a way that they fail to produce good fruit, so that ultimately they are taken away from Jesus (John 15:2a), cut off from Him for their unrepentant laziness, to the ultimate loss of their salvation (Matthew 25:26,30).
Christians can also be ultimately cut off from Jesus Christ, cast away, and burned; they can ultimately lose their salvation, for not continuing to abide in Jesus (John 15:6), in the sense of committing apostasy (Hebrews 6:4-8; 1 Timothy 4:1; 2 Timothy 2:12b), or unrepentant sin (Hebrews 10:26-29, Luke 12:45-46; 1 Corinthians 9:27).
Note that obedience does save Christians, ultimately (Hebrews 5:9, Matthew 7:21, James 2:24).
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No, just as the elements of the Gospel given in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 are not given in every Gospel verse (John 3:16).
But many Gospel verses do show that in order to be saved ultimately, Christians must get water-immersion (burial) baptized into Jesus Christ's death for our sins (Mark 16:16; 1 Peter 3:21, Romans 6:3-11, Colossians 2:12, Galatians 3:27, Acts 2:38, Acts 22:16).
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To arrive at correct doctrine, any verse in one place in the Bible must be compared with (qualified by) other, related verses elsewhere in the Bible (Isaiah 28:9-10; 1 Corinthians 2:13). Our doctrine must be based on what the entire Bible says (2 Timothy 3:16, Matthew 4:4), and not just on what some unqualified verses say.
An example of an unqualified verse would be John 3:36. We cannot say that it means that all we have to believe is that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. For John 3:36 must be qualified by, for example, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 (and vice versa). We have to believe both that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and that He suffered and died on the Cross for our sins and rose physically from the dead on the third day. So when John 3:36 is qualified, something is added to it, not subtracted from it. 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 adds further belief requirements to John 3:36 (and vice versa). 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 does not contradict the belief requirement of John 3:36 (or vice versa).
Another way that John 3:36 must be qualified is that we cannot say that it means that all that Christians have to do is believe for at least one moment during their lifetime. For John 3:36 must be qualified by other Bible verses which show that Christians will obtain ultimate salvation only if they continue to believe to the end (Hebrews 3:6,14, Colossians 1:23). And this is just one of the conditions which the Bible as a whole shows must be met for Christians to obtain ultimate salvation (e.g. Romans 2:6-8; 1 Corinthians 9:27).
Also, compare how Jesus Christ qualified the verse in Matthew 4:6 (Psalms 91:12) with the verse in Matthew 4:7 (Deuteronomy 6:16). When Jesus said: "It is written again" (Matthew 4:7), He was referring to the principle of Isaiah 28:9-10. For in Matthew 4:7 the original Greek word (G3825) translated as "again" can mean "furthermore" (Strong's Greek Dictionary).
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Note that water-immersion (burial) baptism brings us into Him, and into His death (Romans 6:3-11, Colossians 2:12, Galatians 3:27).
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Unless God wants to make an exception for an elect individual (Exodus 33:19b, Romans 9:15), infant baptism is not valid, because baptism is useless for salvation, and is not even allowed, unless the one being baptized is already a believer with all of his heart that Jesus Christ is the Son of God (Acts 8:36-38, Mark 16:16). Also, Christians need to be not just sprinkled with water, as is often done with infant baptism, but water-immersion (burial) baptized (Romans 6:3-11, Colossians 2:12), in order to be ultimately saved from hell (Mark 16:16; 1 Peter 3:21, Galatians 3:27, Acts 2:38, Acts 22:16).
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Some people say that infant baptism means that God has claimed/saved that infant.
But only elect infants have been claimed by God. Nonelect infants have no hope of salvation (Romans 9:11-22), even if their parents get them baptized. There is no way to prove whether or not an infant is elect until he or she grows up and becomes a Christian, proving that he or she is elect (Acts 13:48b), or until he or she dies without ever becoming a Christian, proving that he or she is nonelect (John 8:42-47).
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That is, the elect are those individuals, whether Jews or Gentiles, who were chosen (elected) and predestinated by God before the foundation of the world (Ephesians 1:4-11; 2 Thessalonians 2:13), before they were born (Romans 9:11-24), to become initially saved by faith in Jesus Christ and His Gospel at some point during their lifetime (Acts 13:48b; 2 Timothy 2:10; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4). This initial salvation is possible only because of Jesus' sacrifice on the Cross for our sins (Romans 3:25-26), which was also foreordained by God before the foundation of the world (Revelation 13:8; 1 Peter 1:19-20).
Everyone on his own is wholly corrupt (Romans 3:9-12). And so it is impossible for people on their own to ever believe in Jesus Christ and His Gospel and be initially saved (1 Corinthians 15:1-4, John 20:31; 1 John 5:13), through their own will (Romans 9:16, John 1:13, John 6:65), or their own intellect (1 Corinthians 1:18 to 2:16). Unsaved people cannot understand the Gospel (1 Corinthians 2:14; 1 Corinthians 1:18), because only initially saved people, who have received the miraculous gift of some measure of God's own Spirit, can understand it (1 Corinthians 2:11-16).
Nonelect people cannot ever believe in Jesus Christ and His Gospel and be initially saved, even when they are shown the truth (John 8:42-47, John 10:26, Matthew 13:38-42). For the ability to believe in Jesus and His Gospel comes only to elect individuals (Acts 13:48b) wholly by God's grace as a miraculous gift from God (Ephesians 2:8, John 6:65; 1 Corinthians 3:5b, Romans 12:3b, Hebrews 12:2) as the elect read (or hear) God's Word the Holy Bible (Romans 10:17, Acts 13:48, Acts 26:22-23), just as the ability to repent comes only as a miraculous gift from God (2 Timothy 2:25, Acts 11:18). Satan blinds the minds of non-Christians, so that on their own they cannot repent and acknowledge the truth of God's Word (2 Corinthians 4:4; 2 Timothy 2:25-26).
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