Do you think Christianity became too Greek?

Ken Rank

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I hear some Christians saying that the gentiles took over Christianity and made it less Jewish.
I disagree but I want to hear your opinion.
This is something I wrote a few years ago. It is a shorter section of a much larger article and it deals with why Christianity ceased looking so Jewish. Some of the points I make have been made here already, this might just give some context to the comments:

>>>>>>>>

I would like to share a progression of history that is not taught in many churches today. In fact, there are teachers and leaders in many churches that have never learned of this history; yet this history sheds light on the soil in which the early church grew and was nurtured. Yeshua, or as most of us in the West know him, Jesus, is believed by many to be Messiah and is Jewish. His message was about repentance (turning/returning) and was directed toward a particular people.[3] What he was not doing was attempting to steer people toward another god, nor was he attempting to install a new religious system or set of practices. Those who believed Yeshua was Messiah simply saw him fulfilling prophesies and expectations that were taught and understood within an existing religion. So, until the time of the destruction of the second Temple, and perhaps for a short while longer, Christianity by and large was seen as a sect of Judaism.[4] And not only was the leader of this sect Jewish, his 12 apostles were all Jewish, and his message, for the most part, went forward in and around Judea. On top of this, the Book of Acts contains examples where the disciples retained access to synagogues despite their theological differences with other Jews at that time, and we even see Paul going into synagogues week after week reasoning with both Jews and Greeks.[5] It is actually difficult to ignore the fact that the face of early Christianity was Jewish. So what happened?

There are 3 events that began to reshape the face of what we now call Christianity. Two of them happened so close in time that it is hard to differentiate the effect that each of these events had on the body. The first is the death of James, the brother of Yeshua. There are some early historical references and hints within the NT that James was the head of the Church of Jerusalem.[6] One might consider this congregation to be the first mega-church as it appears to have had over 20,000 members out of a population of 80,000 that lived in Jerusalem at that time[7]; so much for the teaching that all Jews rejected Yeshua![8]

James is said to have died before the destruction of the second Temple. Early Christian tradition states that James was invited to speak at Passover before many Jews who did not believe Yeshua was Messiah. When James began to speak of the Passover and its relation to the work of Yeshua, he was killed. Shortly thereafter, the Temple was destroyed and many Christians (read: Jews and non-Jews who followed Yeshua) saw this as an abomination, and thus used the warning in Matthew 24:16 to flee to the mountains. It is estimated that about half of the Jews who believed that Yeshua was Messiah left and did not return.[9] The remaining half stayed and began to expand in numbers again until the Bar Kokhba Revolt of 132-135AD. Simon Bar Kosiba was a Jewish military leader who led the final revolt against Roman occupation, which ultimately failed. A Rabbi by the name of Akiva, in an attempt to rally support behind the effort, gave him the name Bar Kokhba (a Messianic title) and the remaining Jewish believers in Yeshua would not fight for the sovereignty of Jerusalem under the banner of one whom they believed to be a false Messiah. They too left and did not return to the area.[10]

As this sect of Judaism began to spread geographically, and as those from areas outside of Judea became part of this movement, animosity beyond what already existed between the two groups began to grow. It wouldn’t be long before both sides, but perhaps mainly the Christians, began to pass decrees to make themselves appear less Jewish in appearance. For example, at the Council of Elvira[11] decrees were passed that tried to keep Jews and Christians apart by ordering the latter never to share a meal with Jews, never to marry Jews, never to use Jews to bless their fields, and that Christians were never to observe the Jewish Sabbath (of course, these decrees also serve to substantiate that Christians had been doing these things up until this point).[12] Slowly, over time, more decrees and similar teachings began to come together in such a way that there would eventually be no mistaking Judaism and Christianity. What was once a sect of Judaism became, at least in outward form, a new religion. And within that religion, the view that the Jews were “Christ Killers” was already gaining momentum. For example, in the homily Peri Pascha, Melito of Sardis (circa middle of the second century) wrote “The God has been murdered; the king of Israel has been put to death by an Israelite right hand.”[13] Another example, Justin Martyr (also circa middle of the second century), in his Dialogue with Trypho, A Jew, explains why the Jews have suffered exile and the destruction of the Temple, saying to his Jewish interlocutor “tribulations were justly imposed on you since you have murdered the Just One [Jesus].”[14]

I do want to state, however, that this is not the view of many or even most Christians today. I am simply stating that over the course of history, there have been times where Jews were wholly blamed for Yeshua’s death. For the purposes of this article, I am looking at the general view of early Christians which informed the views of many who would come later.[15]

[3] See Matthew 4:17, Luke 5:32, and Matthew 15:24
[4] See Acts 24:1-6, also verse 14, and Acts 28:22
[5] Acts 18:4
[6] Fragment X of Papias, Eusebius Ecclesiastical History 2:1:2, 3:5:2, Acts 15:13, etc.
[7] Estimating the Population of Ancient Jerusalem, Magen Broshi, BAR 4:02, Jun 1978
[8] See Acts 21:20 and look at the underlying word for “many thousands.”
[9] Eusebius Ecclesiastical History 3:5:3, de Mens. et Pond., 15, Haer 29:7, etc.
[10] Justin, “Apologia”, ii.71, Eusebius 4:6:2-3, Orosius “Hist.” vii.13
[11] Generally accepted to be 306AD
[12] The Council of Elvira. CUA.EDU. Text of 81 Canons in English. Web. Accessed 22 Aug 2014. http://faculty.cua.edu/pennington/Canon Law/ElviraCanons.htm
[13] On the Pascha, 68; Melito of Sardis. On Pascha and fragments, ed. S.G. Hall (1979), p. 55.
[14] Dialogue with Trypho, ch. 16
[15] For a more in-depth historical treatment of this topic, see Jeremy Cohen’s Christ Killers: The Jews and the Passion from the Bible to the Big Screen (New York: Oxford University Press, 2007).
 
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Kaon

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I hear some Christians saying that the gentiles took over Christianity and made it less Jewish.
I disagree but I want to hear your opinion.

Yes.

There was to be no split from Hebrews and the Word of the Most High God and the prophets. Christ was prophesied throughout the books of prophets.

The Word of God sacrificing Himself and resurrecting is part of the Hebrews, so it made no sense for first century Hebrews not to believe in the Word of God and follow Him. This is also why they were killed and exiled, and the more sociopolitical religion of modern Christianity came about - which was the same order of control and confusion. The Word of God reviled while on this plane of existence. That is the joke on us: that MYSTERY Babylon is not actually a mystery, and many of us have followed her, and taught our kids to follow her.

A genetic Hebrew of AD would see the OP s non-sensical given the Word of God, and what He said. The Word of God never abolished the Law or said to follow a different set.
 
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hedrick

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The notion there is a significant tension between Greek and Jewish influences in Christianity rests a great deal of late 19th century German scholarship and their stereotypes of both Judaism and Hellenistic culture.
You really think the three hypostases sharing one ousia would have come from a Jewish Church?

I don't think it was wrong for the Church to use Greek concepts to explain its faith. I do think it's wrong of modern Christians to think that we're bound to use the same explanations.
 
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FireDragon76

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You really think the three hypostases sharing one ousia would have come from a Jewish Church?

I wouldn't zero in on that as the most pertinent example. The emphasis on the purely ethical side of Christianity as the authentic expression of the faith (freed from the assumed pollution of Greek culture) is what I find problematic.
 
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Serving Zion

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I hear some Christians saying that the gentiles took over Christianity and made it less Jewish.
I disagree but I want to hear your opinion.
The number of Gentile converts quickly outnumbered the Jewish converts.

A convert begins to represent the religion in every statement they make, and yet, not every convert is yet a completed work .. they make mistakes. What are the mistakes rooted in? It is the residue of their former person (Romans 12:2).

So inevitably there would be disagreements among them, until they would come to the unity of the faith and knowledge (Ephesians 4:13).

Notice in that verse, it says God has appointed each a role in that process, and when each does it's work effectively, the body of Christ builds itself up in love.

What happened instead, is that the false teachers (those who revolted against Jesus Christ: 2 Peter 2:1, Luke 19:14), they introduced destructive heresies that divided people and so the cancer entered the church, causing the writing of 2 Thessalonians 2:3 - a prophecy that the apostasy must run it's course before the end may come.

So when the apostasy occurred, the "yeast" grew, causing the ones who had believed the doctrines that put them in opposition to Jesus, to be puffed up in their own perceived right to believe what they believe, not giving recognition the authority that Christ Jesus has appointed.. (remember, the false teachers rejected Jesus, they were no longer authorised by Jesus, yet the carnal man did not perceive the change - 1 Corinthians 2:14-15) .. rather, they chose to follow the leaders based upon their own reasoning (the serpent was the most subtule, cunning of all).

This has been happening to the present day. Now we have Christianity full of people who have believed false doctrines over and above reasonable truths, and that has made it become something incohesive, confusing, at war within itself .. a far cry from the one true way that is Jesus Christ in Matthew 12:30.

Thus, it isn't even a matter of Christianity becoming more Gentile and less Jewish, but more carnal and less Christian. Christianity properly exercised is the perfection of Judaism, and that dispute is what caused the crucifixion (Matthew 21:42).

If Christianity is properly exercised, it should be synonymous with Judaism - the Jews would "look upon me, whom they have pierced" .. they would see Christ in Christianity, and therefore know that Jesus is Messiah. But they are seeing the antichrist instead (1 John 4:1).

So, yeah I say that Christianity is not as Jewish as it should be, but to say that it is too Gentile instead, is a dichotomy that does not serve a useful purpose (owing to the language - what is a Jew, and what is a Gentile? .. we would need to work out our understanding of those expressions in order to agree. See Romans 9:6-7).
 
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ToBeLoved

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If Christianity is properly exercised, it should be synonymous with Judaism - the Jews would "look upon me, whom they have pierced" .. they would see Christ in Christianity, and therefore know that Jesus is Messiah. But they are seeing the antichrist instead 4:1).

So, yeah I say that Christianity is not as Jewish as it should be, but to say that it is too Gentile instead, is a dichotomy that does not serve a useful purpose (owing to the language - what is a Jew, and what is a Gentile? .. we would need to work out our understanding of those expressions in order to agree. See Romans 9:6-7).

I don’t think Christianity should look like Judaism as it exists today.

Jesus is a further revelation, a revelation given to the Jews much earlier of the Messiah.

Since Judaism doesn’t accept Jesus as Messiah I’m not sure why you think they should even look a like.

As the Bible says, it is a new and better Covenant based of permenant atonement and God living in us and reconciled back to us through the blood of Christ.

To me, it’s not about Jew or Gentile but what Christ s sacrifice afforded all people with the addition of the indwelling Holy Spirit and permenant atonement.

IMHO, making this a Jew can’t Gentile issue I think is invalid in that Christ is open to all people.
 
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Serving Zion

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I don’t think Christianity should look like Judaism as it exists today.
Me too! (But I do have to say the same toward Christianity, in all honesty - Ephesians 4:4-5, 1 Corinthians 14:33, 1 Timothy 4:2). Proper Judaism and proper Christianity should be the same thing .. but they are both broken and opposite to God's vision for the kingdom (Matthew 9:36).
Jesus is a further revelation, a revelation given to the Jews much earlier of the Messiah.
I really don't understand what you are saying here. According to what is written in Daniel 9:24, the Messiah was to bring the end of the age of sin. That is what the Jewish religion was teaching at the time. The fact that He laid down His life in order to extend the offer of grace to those who would repent, it proved to be a stumbling block to those who did not understand. Not all Jewish people were stumbled by it though (eg: Acts 2:41)..
Since Judaism doesn’t accept Jesus as Messiah I’m not sure why you think they should even look a like.
What you mean to describe by saying Judaism, is not what I call Judaism. You and I are using different meanings for the word (think on Romans 2:28-29 and John 5:44 as it goes with John 12:42-43).
As the Bible says, it is a new and better Covenant based of permenant atonement and God living in us and reconciled back to us through the blood of Christ.
I agree, but do need to underscore that it is a "potentially" permanent atonement .. seeing as it can only exist as long as we remain in Him (John 15:6, Mark 13:13, Hebrews 10:38-39, 1 John 4:16, Hebrews 6:4-6).
To me, it’s not about Jew or Gentile but what Christ s sacrifice afforded all people with the addition of the indwelling Holy Spirit and permenant atonement.
Me too! (You could read on through Daniel 9:26.. and see that where the 62 weeks plus 7 weeks leaves one more week of the 70, where Messiah was cut off half way through, then it is the remainder of that final week that is His life, and this is His covenant with us - where we are baptised with Him into a death like His, to take part in the resurrection like His.. and until the war comes to an end, "desolation is decreed" .. precisely what we see happening over the last 2,000 years.

But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away! For if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you.
- John 16:7
IMHO, making this a Jew can’t Gentile issue I think is invalid in that Christ is open to all people.
For He is our shalom, the One who made the two into one and broke down the middle wall of separation. Within His flesh He made powerless the hostility—the law code of mitzvot contained in regulations. He did this in order to create within Himself one new man from the two groups, making shalom, and to reconcile both to God in one body through the cross—by which He put the hostility to death.
Ephesians 2:14-16

.. it was because the Jewish religious leaders and Torah scholars (the lawyers) were using law in their way rather than God's way, they wrongly used the law to condemn Jesus, in this way proving that they were unworthy to rule in God's name - they were guilty of spilling righteous blood in God's name, according to God's judgement (Matthew 27:51-54).

That is how he made powerless the written law (which is not to say that the law itself is wrong or powerless - Romans 7:12, 1 Timothy 1:8, 1 Corinthians 15:56), but that literally "all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God" - even those to whom God had put in charge of the kingdom (Matthew 21:33) - "there is now (rather, was then) no longer a distinction between the Jew and the Greek - all have fallen short of the glory of God".

.. But it is going too far () to say that Christians are free to live however they want and giving no regard to the way a Jew should live. It might be OK according to the way you use the language though, because "Judaism" to you seems to be a sort of religion that says God is against people using elevators on the Sabbath day, whereas I say that such a religion has missed the point of what it means to "rest from all your labour". They have taken a false step in the technical implementation of law, specifically in this case where "electrical connection" has been interpreted as "sparking fire", according to an established precedent (Exodus 35:3).

Therefore, do not let anyone pass judgment on you in matters of food or drink, or in respect to a festival or new moon or Shabbat.
Colossians 2:16

Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Messiah Yeshua. Therefore you are without excuse, O man—every one of you who is judging. Who is the one who condemns? It is Messiah, who died, and moreover was raised, and is now at the right hand of God and who also intercedes for us. For we do not have a kohen gadol who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses. He had to be made like His brothers in all things, so He might become a merciful and faithful Kohen Gadol in matters relating to God, to make atonement for the sins of the people. Because He Himself suffered when put to the test, He is able to help those being tested.
Romans 8:1, Romans 2:1, Romans 8:34, Hebrews 4:15, Hebrews 2:17-18

.. it is clear through these passages, especially Hebrews 7:23-25, that Christianity was never meant to do away with Judaism, but rather, it was to shift the authority to rule away from a human priesthood that had been corrupted (Mark 3:27) and into the hands of Jesus Christ forever.
 
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Paidiske

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I hear some Christians saying that the gentiles took over Christianity and made it less Jewish.
I disagree but I want to hear your opinion.

I think there are different aspects to the "Jewishness" (or lack thereof) of Christianity, and that some of them are important to us in an ongoing way, and some are not.

We see from the council of Jerusalem, for example, that Torah-keeping is not binding on gentiles. Nor are we required to all learn Hebrew or become culturally Jewish; we are accepted for who we are, with the cultural and linguistic backgrounds that we have.

But where I think we do have a problem is that early Christianity fairly uncritically adopted philosophical and metaphysical ideas from outside God's revelation to us, from Pagan thinkers like the great classical philosophers. Some of those ideas - such as Aristotle's metaphysics of substance and accidents - have created problems for us in a way which we have not yet fully dealt with (witness arguments on CF about transubstantiation).

We would have done better, in some ways, to stay closer to a Jewish sense of revealed truth, and to be more critical about what we sought to integrate with it, and that might have given us a healthier theology since.
 
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