God's laws chnage ervey day

Kaon · Sep 28, 2018

SkyWriting said:
Berean Study Bible
Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which is from God. The authorities that exist have been appointed by God.

Berean Literal Bible
Let every soul be subject to the authorities being above him. For there is no authority except by God; but those existing are having been instituted by God.

New American Standard Bible
Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God.

King James Bible
Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

Romans 13:1-7
Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience.

The Most High God did not say this. Where did the Most High God say these things?

S.O.J.I.A. · Sep 28, 2018

Insufficient evidence..

Eloy Craft · Sep 28, 2018

SkyWriting said:
Be subject for the Lord's sake to every human institution,

Peter demonstrated what that subjugation may look like following His Lords example.

joshua 1 9 · Sep 28, 2018

SkyWriting said:
So far, no one has disputed this passage explaining that
God's laws change each day.

Romans 13:1-7
Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience.

Paul says do what is good and you have nothing to fear. You do not have to worry about something in your past catching up with you to hold you accountable.

tdidymas · Sep 28, 2018

SkyWriting said:
It's fairly wordy already. I don't feel the need to assume more words added into the paragraph.
How about I assume more scripture? Would that be better?

1 Peter 2:13-17
Be subject for the Lord's sake to every human institution, whether it be to the emperor as supreme, or to governors as sent by him to punish those who do evil and to praise those who do good. For this is the will of God, that by doing good you should put to silence the ignorance of foolish people. Live as people who are free, not using your freedom as a cover-up for evil, but living as servants of God. Honor everyone. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the emperor.

Titus 3:1
Remind them to be submissive to rulers and authorities, to be obedient, to be ready for every good work,

1 Timothy 2:1-3
First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all people, for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a peaceful and quiet life, godly and dignified in every way. This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior,

Daniel 2:20-21
Daniel answered and said: “Blessed be the name of God forever and ever, to whom belong wisdom and might. He changes times and seasons; he removes kings and sets up kings; he gives wisdom to the wise and knowledge to those who have understanding;

Psalm 22:28
For kingship belongs to the Lord, and he rules over the nations.

Deuteronomy 16:18-20
“You shall appoint judges and officers in all your towns that the Lord your God is giving you, according to your tribes, and they shall judge the people with righteous judgment. You shall not pervert justice. You shall not show partiality, and you shall not accept a bribe, for a bribe blinds the eyes of the wise and subverts the cause of the righteous. Justice, and only justice, you shall follow, that you may live and inherit the land that the Lord your God is giving you.

Romans 13:7
Pay to all what is owed to them: taxes to whom taxes are owed, revenue to whom revenue is owed, respect to whom respect is owed, honor to whom honor is owed.

Revelation 1:5-6
And from Jesus Christ the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of kings on earth. To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood and made us a kingdom, priests to his God and Father, to him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.

Is it your intention to confuse or be vague? What's your point?
TD

dcalling · Sep 28, 2018

SkyWriting said:
Only when officials are in session somewhere in the world.

Romans 13:1-7
Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God.

When the Roman empire told Christians to deny God or worship him as a god, the real Christians disobeyed that, and they are subjected to the governing authorities (i.e. they were killed).

God first, that is always the law, as you shall not worship any other than God. However God did command us to be subjected to the governing authorities, even if that authority is bad to Christians, because God said "vengeance is mine". God's law never change, human law does.

Devin P · Sep 29, 2018

SkyWriting said:
So far, no one has disputed this passage explaining that
God's laws change each day.

Romans 13:1-7
Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience.

God's laws don't change everyday, or at all for that matter. I do see what you're talking about though.

Really, all Paul is saying, is be a good, law abiding citizen. Don't sell drugs to kids, don't murder, just be a good upstanding citizen and you'll generally have nothing to worry about. Obviously this isn't always the case, sometimes you'll be a target regardless, simply because of your faith, but for the most part, as long as you do right, you'll have nothing to fear.

God's laws however, are described only in the first five books of the bible, and never change. The laws passed by men, often contradict and oppose God's laws. God isn't saying to be obedient to the leaders in all things, because if something they do or say transgresses a law of God, we're to ignore the man-made law, for obedience to God's laws. This is what Jesus was talking about regarding dying for the faith.

All throughout history people have passed laws banning the bible, and the freedom of having faith in, and having a relationship with Jesus, and yet, the people always died for their faith. Were they in the wrong for accepting Jesus despite the laws men made saying it was forbidden?

Was Jesus in the wrong for going against the Jewish authorities?

When you stand in truth, it's okay to stand against an authority if that authority isn't.

SkyWriting · Sep 29, 2018

THE W said:
Insufficient evidence..

I couldn't find any scripture to refute these passages either.
That's why I posted the topic.

1 Peter 2:13-17
Titus 3:1
1 Timothy 2:1-3
Daniel 2:20-21
Psalm 22:28
Deuteronomy 16:18-20
Romans 13:7
Revelation 1:5-6

So you still support the penalty for burning any yeast or honey in offerings to God?
(LEV 2:11)
11 No grain offering that you present to the LORD may be made with yeast, for you are not to burn any yeast or honey as an offering made by fire to the LORD.

SkyWriting · Sep 29, 2018

Devin P said:
God's laws don't change everyday, or at all for that matter. I do see what you're talking about though.

Really, all Paul is saying, is be a good, law abiding citizen. Don't sell drugs to kids, don't murder, just be a good upstanding citizen and you'll generally have nothing to worry about. Obviously this isn't always the case, sometimes you'll be a target regardless, simply because of your faith, but for the most part, as long as you do right, you'll have nothing to fear.

God's laws however, are described only in the first five books of the bible, and never change. The laws passed by men, often contradict and oppose God's laws. God isn't saying to be obedient to the leaders in all things, because if something they do or say transgresses a law of God, we're to ignore the man-made law, for obedience to God's laws. This is what Jesus was talking about regarding dying for the faith.

All throughout history people have passed laws banning the bible, and the freedom of having faith in, and having a relationship with Jesus, and yet, the people always died for their faith. Were they in the wrong for accepting Jesus despite the laws men made saying it was forbidden?

Was Jesus in the wrong for going against the Jewish authorities?

When you stand in truth, it's okay to stand against an authority if that authority isn't.

Jesus did not stand against the authorities and accepted his arrest and punishment.
Thank God for that.

Lev 10:6
"Do not let your hair become unkempt and do not tear your clothes, or you will die and the LORD will be angry with the whole community.

SkyWriting · Sep 29, 2018

dcalling said:
When the Roman empire told Christians to deny God or worship him as a god, the real Christians disobeyed that, and they are subjected to the governing authorities (i.e. they were killed). God first, that is always the law, as you shall not worship any other than God. However God did command us to be subjected to the governing authorities, even if that authority is bad to Christians, because God said "vengeance is mine". God's law never change, human law does.

God's laws says:

Romans 13:1-7
Let every person be subject to the governing authorities.

Evidence: LEV 24
13 Then the LORD said to Moses, 14 “Bring the one who has cursed outside the camp, and have all who heard him lay their hands on his head; then have the whole assembly stone him.

God's laws have changed.

SkyWriting · Sep 29, 2018

tdidymas said:
Is it your intention to confuse or be vague? What's your point?
TD

God's laws have changed and continue to do so.

LEV 20
8 Keep my decrees and follow them. I am the LORD, who makes you holy.
9 Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death.
Because they have cursed their father or mother,
their blood will be on their own head.

SkyWriting · Sep 29, 2018

Kaon said:
The Most High God did not say this. Where did the Most High God say these things?

Romans 13:1-7
1 Peter 2:13-17
Titus 3:1
1 Timothy 2:1-3
Daniel 2:20-21
Psalm 22:28
Deuteronomy 16:18-20
Romans 13:7
Revelation 1:5-6

Gods laws change.

Evidence:
Blasphemy (punishable by stoning to death)
(LEV 24:14)

FireDragon76 · Sep 29, 2018

Interpreting Romans 13 in a wooden fashion is a grave error that was abused in the past to great tragedy in my own religious tradition.

What we must understand from this is simply that our activity in the world be to the benefit of our neighbor and that we conduct ourselves in the world in a socially responsible manner.

SkyWriting · Sep 29, 2018

FireDragon76 said:
Interpreting Romans 13 in a wooden fashion is a grave error that was abused in the past to great tragedy in my own religious tradition.

What we must understand from this is simply that our activity in the world be to the benefit of our neighbor and that we conduct ourselves in the world in a socially responsible manner.

Specifically, God has put men in government to make new laws.
But I see your point about the delegation of power.
It's hard for me to say God was not involved in that mess.

Romans 13:1-7
1 Peter 2:13-17
Titus 3:1
1 Timothy 2:1-3
Daniel 2:20-21
Psalm 22:28
Deuteronomy 16:18-20
Romans 13:7
Revelation 1:5-6

FireDragon76 · Sep 29, 2018

SkyWriting said:
Specifically, God has put men in government to make new laws.

Romans 13:1-7
1 Peter 2:13-17
Titus 3:1
1 Timothy 2:1-3
Daniel 2:20-21
Psalm 22:28
Deuteronomy 16:18-20
Romans 13:7
Revelation 1:5-6

God raises up people with prophetic voices inside and outside the Church, as part of his left-hand reign in the world, to restrain evil and to uphold justice.

SkyWriting · Sep 29, 2018

FireDragon76 said:
God raises up people with prophetic voices inside and outside the Church, as part of his left-hand reign in the world, to restrain evil and to uphold justice.

I don't think there are such people, but I like your attitude.

AlexDTX · Sep 29, 2018

SkyWriting said:
So far, no one has disputed this passage explaining that
God's laws change each day.

Romans 13:1-7
Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience.

Romans 13 was deliberately mistranslated by civil authorities to bolster their own power. Romans 13 is an admonition from Paul for the messianic Jews in Rome to accept the mature Gentile believer as leaders in the Church that are listed in chapter 16. The only aspect of obeying civil authorities that applies to Christians is everything that conforms to God's unchanging laws. We are to be like Daniel, and we might now add, Brett Kanvanaugh, with impeccable behavior for which no fault may be found so all that remains is the Gospel.

Norbert L · Sep 29, 2018

SkyWriting said:
It's fairly wordy already. I don't feel the need to assume more words added into the paragraph.
How about I assume more scripture? Would that be better?

1 Peter 2:13-17
Be subject for the Lord's sake to every human institution, whether it be to the emperor as supreme, or to governors as sent by him to punish those who do evil and to praise those who do good. For this is the will of God, that by doing good you should put to silence the ignorance of foolish people. Live as people who are free, not using your freedom as a cover-up for evil, but living as servants of God. Honor everyone. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the emperor.

Titus 3:1
Remind them to be submissive to rulers and authorities, to be obedient, to be ready for every good work,

1 Timothy 2:1-3
First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all people, for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a peaceful and quiet life, godly and dignified in every way. This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior,

Daniel 2:20-21
Daniel answered and said: “Blessed be the name of God forever and ever, to whom belong wisdom and might. He changes times and seasons; he removes kings and sets up kings; he gives wisdom to the wise and knowledge to those who have understanding;

Psalm 22:28
For kingship belongs to the Lord, and he rules over the nations.

Deuteronomy 16:18-20
“You shall appoint judges and officers in all your towns that the Lord your God is giving you, according to your tribes, and they shall judge the people with righteous judgment. You shall not pervert justice. You shall not show partiality, and you shall not accept a bribe, for a bribe blinds the eyes of the wise and subverts the cause of the righteous. Justice, and only justice, you shall follow, that you may live and inherit the land that the Lord your God is giving you.

Romans 13:7
Pay to all what is owed to them: taxes to whom taxes are owed, revenue to whom revenue is owed, respect to whom respect is owed, honor to whom honor is owed.

Revelation 1:5-6
And from Jesus Christ the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of kings on earth. To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood and made us a kingdom, priests to his God and Father, to him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.

How about other passages. "Jesus said to them, “Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s.” " Mark 12:17

So what should a Christian do when there's a conflict between these two things. As Peter pointed out to his acting authorities within Israel in Acts of the Apostles 5:29, "Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men."

Clearing there is a problem here with the idea that simple obeying our earthly authorities is a straightforward thing. It requires the use of your mind, where any Christian can either be led by the Spirit or their earthly mind as Peter points out again in 1 Peter 4:14-16.

Eloy Craft · Sep 29, 2018

3 To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:

2 A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;

3 A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;

4 A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;

5 A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;

6 A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away;

7 A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;

8 A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.

9 What profit hath he that worketh in that wherein he laboureth?

10 I have seen the travail, which God hath given to the sons of men to be exercised in it.

11 He hath made every thing beautiful in his time: also he hath set the world in their heart, so that no man can find out the work that God maketh from the beginning to the end.

12 I know that there is no good in them, but for a man to rejoice, and to do good in his life.

13 And also that every man should eat and drink, and enjoy the good of all his labour, it is the gift of God.

14 I know that, whatsoever God doeth, it shall be for ever: nothing can be put to it, nor any thing taken from it: and God doeth it, that men should fear before him.

15 That which hath been is now; and that which is to be hath already been; and God requireth that which is past.

16 And moreover I saw under t,,he sun the place of judgment, that wickedness was there; and the place of righteousness, that iniquity was there.

17

Norbert L · Sep 29, 2018

SkyWriting said:
God's laws says:

Romans 13:1-7
Let every person be subject to the governing authorities.

Evidence: LEV 24
13 Then the LORD said to Moses, 14 “Bring the one who has cursed outside the camp, and have all who heard him lay their hands on his head; then have the whole assembly stone him.

God's laws have changed.

Here's another thought about what exactly has changed.

No one saw a pillar of cloud by day and a pillar of fire by night leading George Washington across the Delaware river. Neither do we see the President of the United States or Congress meet with Jesus about how they should govern the people.

Given their ancient history and what eventually occurred to their country, people nowadays wouldn't fair any better with the legislation that would be written in our present laws. Exodus 23:21

There's a reason why He left and allowed us the free will to create new and different just and unjust laws in order to have a functioning society. Luke 9:56 NKJV puts it, "For the Son of Man did not come to destroy men’s lives but to save them.”

Basically mankind and his civilization has changed, so too with our free will do our civil laws. It's not about God who has changed in any manner, it's us who have changed. So we no longer stone people for things like adultery.

God's laws chnage ervey day

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