What does the Greek word Πρώτη also mean?

Kaon · Sep 27, 2018

ArmyMatt said:
of what you said concerning the Fathers. intentionally and unintentionally neglecting Jewish roots, etc.

You want me to give you evidence that some of the Hebrew leaders knew what they were doing besides the Redeemer turning over tables and whipping people? Or, besides history?

buzuxi02 · Sep 27, 2018

InKarpathos said:
As a Greek Orthodox Christian, who grew up in the Greek Church from a small child, who goes to Mt. Athos every year, I can honestly say that we have distorted the truth. All this is coming out in my book that I'm doing.

The Church Fathers, were before their was an Orthodox, Catholic or Protestants Church. Our foundations were built on wrong information.

Christ was the Messiah and he did die and rise from the dead on the third day for us to have an eternal life.

They got that correct, but when they took out Judaism from our faith, that is when they took a wrong turn and all Christian Faiths have been effected by their decision.

As an Orthodox, I can say this!!!

You may as well blame the Apostles for not making the gentiles convert to Judaism first. We should all be getting circumcised and shame on Peter for eating that pork. So the problem now starts with the apostles themselves.

When the fullness of time had come God sent forth his Son born of woman, born under the law, says the scripture. If the Church Fathers got it wrong then so did God because the fullness of time wasnt that full and God should have postponed the event until better socio-political times.

ArmyMatt · Sep 27, 2018

Kaon said:
You want me to give you evidence that some of the Hebrew leaders knew what they were doing besides the Redeemer turning over tables and whipping people? Or, besides history?

you said some of the Fathers were anti-Judaism on purpose, some out of ignorance, and then you brought up rank being used. evidence for this please.

buzuxi02 · Sep 27, 2018

mothcorrupteth said:
Well, that's the unanswered question. ω and ο's names are literally, "big O" and "small O" because the Byzantines needed separate names for them once both letters had started to become pronounced the same. Originally, they had separate names--ὦ and οὖ. However, Ω itself was introduced after Ο, as indicated by its place at the end of the Greek alphabet, and it was intended to be symbolic of a "broken" Ο--which makes sense, because the sounds each one represented in Ancient dialects were very close to each other in place of articulation but different in terms of length of articulation. This suggests that the Greeks themselves saw the two sounds as closely connected, and so it would be a small step to assume that πρώτος and προτού (or πρὸ τοῦ, as it was spelled in κοινη) come from the common ancestor πρό or some PIE precursor. But we don't know.

I have no doubt that the two etymologically are correlated . John the Baptist is known as the forerunner. So προ τού can either signify a final step or phase before a new phase, or a prequel event. And can also mean the first preliminary or prepatory step to set up a first action
In the OP though πρώτη means first day. It's in the feminine common way to address days of the week. No smoking gun evidence that it is interchangeable as first day and/or as the preceding day.

InKarpathos · Sep 28, 2018

I would like to say, that I have no intention of breaking the forum rules. I did not write these thing in order to start a debate, but to receive information on the word "Πρώτη". Thanks to a member of the forum, he gave me a some other information on this subject which really helped me a lot. I am know able to place the Bible scripture of the Last Supper, on a certain Calendar date, which proves my point on when Jesus was Crucified. Without this knowledge, I their would be a big question if I have gotten it write in my book.

I don't believe that sharing information by having a intelligent discussion about them, is a debate. I am not trying to change anybody's mind nor are they going to change mine, unless they give me information that can be proven by historical accounts and YES, the Bible is a historical account of our World, from Creation till about the 90 AD.

If the moderates read this post, please take what I'm saying very seriously.

ArmyMatt said:
what aspects of Judaism were removed which should have remained?

Everything that has been removed from Christianity,

What we can eat and what we can't eat Read Leviticus 11:1-47
Circumcision, in the USA they do it, but in the rest of the world they don't
That we have the Sabbath on Sunday, instead Saturday which God commanded us to observe.
We don't celebrate the Holidays that where given to us by God, but we have baptized pagan holidays as Christians like Christmas. Read Jeremiah 10:1-4

It would be good to read Matthew 5:17-19 which Jesus states

17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

If you want a full list, I suggest that you read from Exodus 1:1 till Deuteronomy 34:12 and then decide for yourself what has been removed.

Yeshua HaDerekh said:
What is the subject of your book? When will it be finished?

What Day Christ was crucified.
I will give a specific calendar date and a time range when the crucifixion events happened based upon scientific and historical proof. It will be in Greek and English and write now I'm on the first draft of the Greek version. Once that is finished, then I will create the English version. I hope by February to have everything finished.
I'm think of not selling it, but have it just come out on PDF and give it away for free.

ArmyMatt said:
do you have any evidence to support this at all?

Compartmentalization has been a tested and proven method to hide the truth, just look at NASA and all the lies that they say.

InKarpathos · Sep 28, 2018

I did not see these post before

buzuxi02 said:
our a complete imbecile. You may as well blame the Apostles for not making the gentiles convert to Judaism first. We should all be getting circumcised and shame on Peter for eating that pork. So the problem now starts with the apostles themselves.

When the fullness of time had come God sent forth his Son born of woman, born under the law, says the scripture. If the Church Fathers got it wrong then so did God because the fullness of time wasnt that full and God should have postponed the event until better socio-political times.

Can you please tell me where in the Bible does it say the Peter ate pork. I don't seem to remember ever reading this. If you are correct that Peter ate pork, please share this information, because I may need to change a few thing in my book,

But I do remember him saying in Acts 10:14 -"But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean." By the way, St. Peter, who was engulfed by the Holy Spirit interpreted his dream as it not being about the food but about the people, He said this in Acts10:28 - "And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean."

The Apostles had everything correct, it's the people after the Apostles that changed everything.

Are YOU going to tell God what to DO? Have you ever contemplated what the word bə·rê·šîṯ really means in the original language that it was written. We may have translated it as "In the beginning" but in reality it talks about the coming of Christ and giving us a second chance. Bə·rê·šîṯ is the first world of the Bible, and if God planed the coming of Jesus, before he even made the world, then I guess he know what he is doing.

ArmyMatt said:
you said some of the Fathers were anti-Judaism on purpose, some out of ignorance, and then you brought up rank being used. evidence for this please.

You can read Panarion 29, which was created by "Saint" Epiphanius which he trashed the Christians that kept the Judaism Laws.

Final note, I have a friend of mine that is an Ancient Greek Language professor and she is looking into the word of "Πρώτη". I will post her reply as soon as I get it.

God Bless you all and remember that by talking, we can find out the truth

Yeshua HaDerekh · Sep 28, 2018

InKarpathos said:
I would like to say, that I have no intention of breaking the forum rules. I did not write these thing in order to start a debate, but to receive information on the word "Πρώτη". Thanks to a member of the forum, he gave me a some other information on this subject which really helped me a lot. I am know able to place the Bible scripture of the Last Supper, on a certain Calendar date, which proves my point on when Jesus was Crucified. Without this knowledge, I their would be a big question if I have gotten it write in my book.

What Day Christ was crucified.
I will give a specific calendar date and a time range when the crucifixion events happened based upon scientific and historical proof. It will be in Greek and English and write now I'm on the first draft of the Greek version. Once that is finished, then I will create the English version. I hope by February to have everything finished.

Yeshua was crucified on the 14th of nisan, died at 3 PM and was buried before sunset. He remained in the tomb through the Sabbath (the 15th) and rose sometime after sunset on the 16th (Yom HaBikkurim). I have written of this in many previous posts for years on this forum. Should be an interesting book. I would like to read it when you finish.

Shalom

prodromos · Sep 28, 2018

InKarpathos said:
Everything that has been removed from Christianity,

1. What we can eat and what we can't eat Read Leviticus 11:1-47

Read Mark 7:18-20

2. Circumcision, in the USA they do it, but in the rest of the world they don't

They don't do it for religious reasons, nor was it ever required of the Gentiles who became Christians. Read Acts 15

3. That we have the Sabbath on Sunday, instead Saturday which God commanded us to observe.

I don't know where you got this nonsense. The Church does not teach that the Sabbath is on Sunday. Apart from a few days of the year, we also do not fast on Saturday because it is the Sabbath. This is how we, under the New Covenant, honor the Sabbath.

4. We don't celebrate the Holidays that where given to us by God, but we have baptized pagan holidays as Christians like Christmas. Read Jeremiah 10:1-4

We have Feast and Fast days on every day of the frikkin year, so there are bound to be a few that coincide with pagan holidays. The feast days given to the Jews were a sign to the Jews to remember God's covenant with them. We are not under that covenant, but rather a new covenant. The Church, under the guidance of the Holy Spirit has instituted feast days to help Christians remember that new covenant. It has nothing to do with 'baptizing' pagan holidays. You've been reading too much Protestant nonsense.

It would be good to read Matthew 5:17-19 which Jesus states

17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Because Christ fulfilled the law, whoever is in Christ has fulfilled the law.

InKarpathos · Sep 28, 2018

Yeshua HaDerekh said:
eshua was crucified on the 14th of nisan, died at 3 PM and was buried before sunset. He remained in the tomb through the Sabbath (the 15th) and rose sometime after sunset on the 16th (Yom HaBikkurim). I have written of this in many previous posts for years on this forum. Should be an interesting book. I would like to read it when you finish. Shalom

Yeshua was crucified on Nisan 14 and died in the evening of Nisan 14
Day 1 - Evening Nisan 14 & Day Nisan 15
Day 2 - Evening Nisan 15 & Day Nisan 16
Day 3 - Evening Nisan 16 & Day Nisan 17
Day 4 - Resurrection after the Sun went down on Nisan 17

Three day and Three nights he was dead as he told us in Matthew 12:40
"For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth."

I have figured out the calendar date and the time range of his Crucifixion!

prodromos said:
Read Mark 7:18-20

If you read from Mark 7:1-20, you will understand that the disciples where eating bread (clean food) and the pharmacies told him that because they did not wash their hand in a specific way that their ancestors told them, then the clean food becomes unclean making MAN LAW above GOD'S LAW.

I'm reminding you again what Jesus said in Matthew 5:17-18

"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. "

If Jesus told us to stop observing Leviticus 11:1-47, would not that destroy the law and thus make him a liar in Matthew 5:17-18?

Also, Jesus was sinless, but sin is when you break Gods Law. If Jesus broke God's Law, then that would be a sin and he would not be sinless and thus could not be the Lamb that died for us. You can't have it both ways. You have to decide, did Jesus break God's Law and thus not the sinless Lamb or did Jesus enforce God's Law and thus being the sinless Lamb that died so we can live.

The clean and unclean animals was not introduced in Moses time, but was from the Creation of the world. If you disagree, then I have one question for you:

In Genesis 7:1-2 we read :
"And the LORD said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation. Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female."

How did Noah know, 1200 years before Moses, which animals where clean and which animals were not clean?
I want you to give me a Bible passage that proves your answer.

I have figured it out and you can read about it in my book.

prodromos said:
don't know where you got this nonsense. The Church does not teach that the Sabbath is on Sunday. Apart from a few days of the year, we also do not fast on Saturday because it is the Sabbath. This is how we, under the New Covenant, honor the Sabbath.

When did God command us to rest, on Saturday or Sunday?
When do the Hebrews go to Church on Saturday or Sunday and when do we go to Church?

prodromos said:
Because Christ fulfilled the law, whoever is in Christ has fulfilled the law.

Does that mean, that since Christ has fulfilled the Law that we don't have to.
Can we have an adulterous lifestyle since Christ fulfilled the Law?
Can we kill people, since Christ fulfilled the Law?
Can we break every commandment that God has given us, since Christ fulfilled the Law?

Today, has the Heaven and Earth pass away?
If Yes, then we don't need to observe the Law
If No, then we need to observe the Law
I believe that we all know that we still have a Heaven and Earth.

God Bless

~Anastasia~ · Sep 28, 2018

This doesn't read like Orthodoxy at all, but like very late Protestant ideas.

You do have to implicate the Apostles as well - they decided that to try to follow the Jewish law was judaizing. They did not put such requirements on gentile Christians. The Lord Himself began appearing to them on the first day of the week (not the 6th/sabbath) and this began the custom of meeting specially on that day. And in the post I cut your quotes from you also mentioned that no one could be priests apart from the line of the Levites, as a possible motive - yet the Apostles ordained presbyters and overseers from among even the gentiles.

All of this turns Orthodoxy on its head and speaks against the Apostles and the foundation they laid. Why believe the Scriptures at all (and I see recourse to them has been requested) if you can't trust the Church that produced it?

These are all late Protestant errors, not something newly "discovered". It doesn't even stand fast on Hebraic customs of language in some cases (particularly the 4th day resurrection). There is a reason so many of the holy elders through the centuries have warned against following "new ideas" we think we arrive at ourselves.

I'm not trying to be harsh, I'm just surprised to hear an Orthodox Christian fall for such things, having had the benefit of such a rich treasury of teaching and resources.

And I can say this as a former Protestant, well aware of the history and thought of such ideas as well as carefully having sifted out their errors.

ArmyMatt · Sep 28, 2018

InKarpathos said:
Everything that has been removed from Christianity,

What we can eat and what we can't eat Read Leviticus 11:1-47

Circumcision, in the USA they do it, but in the rest of the world they don't

That we have the Sabbath on Sunday, instead Saturday which God commanded us to observe.

We don't celebrate the Holidays that where given to us by God, but we have baptized pagan holidays as Christians like Christmas. Read Jeremiah 10:1-4

It would be good to read Matthew 5:17-19 which Jesus states

17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

If you want a full list, I suggest that you read from Exodus 1:1 till Deuteronomy 34:12 and then decide for yourself what has been removed.

1. actually taken care of in Acts and St Paul.
2. see above
3. actually, many Fathers agree that Saturday is still the Sabbath in that it is always the day we remember Christ resting in the Tomb.
4. we actually do observe what was given by God. Pascha, the Transfiguration, Christmas, Pentecost, etc. are all given their prototypes in Scripture.

most of what you said isn't actually what the Fathers said or did.

ArmyMatt · Sep 28, 2018

InKarpathos said:
You can read Panarion 29, which was created by "Saint" Epiphanius which he trashed the Christians that kept the Judaism Laws.

for one, it's St Epiphanios, not "St.".

for two, Judaizing was a heresy back in the day, which even the Apostles wrote against. you are condemning the Fathers for things that the Apostles dealt with already.

prodromos · Sep 28, 2018

InKarpathos said:
Yeshua was crucified on Nisan 14 and died in the evening of Nisan 14
Day 1 - Evening Nisan 14 & Day Nisan 15
Day 2 - Evening Nisan 15 & Day Nisan 16
Day 3 - Evening Nisan 16 & Day Nisan 17
Day 4 - Resurrection after the Sun went down on Nisan 17

Three day and Three nights he was dead as he told us in Matthew 12:40
"For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth."

I have figured out the calendar date and the time range of his Crucifixion!

3 days and 3 nights is a figure of speech known as synecdoche where the whole (day and night) refers to the part (Friday evening, all of the Sabbath, Sunday morning). If you don't understand this then it makes Jesus a liar for every time He said He would rise on the third day, and it would also not jive with the comments made by the disciples who met Jesus on the road to Emmaus in Luke 24:13-21.

Kaon · Sep 28, 2018

ArmyMatt said:
you said some of the Fathers were anti-Judaism on purpose, some out of ignorance, and then you brought up rank being used. evidence for this please.

Ah I see.

No, i will not, because it requires critical thinking. I am not going through the entire bible canon and church history just to show you what you should already realize.

And, I said HEBREW LEADERS, not "fathers." Humans lie, including religious patriarchy.

InKarpathos · Sep 28, 2018

~Anastasia~ said:
You do have to implicate the Apostles as well - they decided that to try to follow the Jewish law was judaizing. They did not put such requirements on gentile Christians. The Lord Himself began appearing to them on the first day of the week (not the 6th/sabbath) and this began the custom of meeting specially on that day. And in the post I cut your quotes from you also mentioned that no one could be priests apart from the line of the Levites, as a possible motive - yet the Apostles ordained presbyters and overseers from among even the gentiles.

All of this turns Orthodoxy on its head and speaks against the Apostles and the foundation they laid. Why believe the Scriptures at all (and I see recourse to them has been requested) if you can't trust the Church that produced it?

These are all late Protestant errors, not something newly "discovered". It doesn't even stand fast on Hebraic customs of language in some cases (particularly the 4th day resurrection). There is a reason so many of the holy elders through the centuries have warned against following "new ideas" we think we arrive at ourselves.

I'm not trying to be harsh, I'm just surprised to hear an Orthodox Christian fall for such things, having had the benefit of such a rich treasury of teaching and resources.

And I can say this as a former Protestant, well aware of the history and thought of such ideas as well as carefully having sifted out their errors.

At the time, there was a big discussion if the Gentiles had to first become Jews and then become Christians. The Apostles decide that first they had to accept that Christ was the Messiah that he died for us and was resurrected on the third day. They would need to stop worshiping idols and all the scarifies to them and then after going into the church, they would learn the rest of the law. Small steps at a time.

The Apostles did NOT ordain priest, but elders. Can you please show me where in the Bible do the Apostles use the word of PRIEST.

The Church I trust, because the Church is made up from
1) people like you and me
2) Priest and Bishops

Both are equal in the Church with a capital C, but in the church, with a small c, the Priest and Bishops are KING, and sometimes I don't trust their dogmatic teachings. Remember Paul said that we must read the scripture to find out the truth and he asked to be tested upon the scriptures. If St. Paul asked to be tested against the scripture (Old Testament) then all Priest should be tested against them.

We are not Catholic, where we believe that our religious leaders are inflammable. They can make mistakes since they are only human. If the Priest teach things that does not contradict the scriptures, that is the Old and New Testament, then we must LEARN from them. If they teach things that goes against the Bible, then they are false teachers, just as Jesus warned us about.

"4th day resurrection"

Jesus said that he would be dead for 3 days and three night. If this did not happen, then it makes him a liar. Is this what you are saying, that Jesus lied to us.

The Bible states that a day is from sunset till sunset, look at Genesis chapter 1
With a Friday crucifixion and a Sunday resurrection, we have

Night 1 Friday Night
Day 1 – Saturday day
Night 2 – Saturday Night

Sunday Resurrection means that Christ was dead for 1 day and 2 night, thus you make him into a liar OR that the Bible lied when it states his words. If this is the case, then how can we believe that he was even resurrected…

Friday Crucifixion does not work!!

I agree that we have to exterminate all the errors from our religion. The protestants have big problems when it comes to believing in the Saints.

Who can say that St. Mary Magdalen was not a Saint, her had is still soft after 2000 years in Mt. Athos, but the Church Fathers have taken her out of the picture. Go to any Greek Orthodox Church and look at the icons on the wall. Can you find any icons of her, with her name on it, NO!!!! Like she never even existed for the Church Fathers (After 4th Century)

ArmyMatt said:
1. actually taken care of in Acts and St Paul.

4. we actually do observe what was given by God. Pascha, the Transfiguration, Christmas, Pentecost, etc. are all given their prototypes in Scripture.

most of what you said isn't actually what the Fathers said or did.

St. Paul stated that we must follow the law in Romain 3:31 - "Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law."

Do we as Christians follow the Law?

Do we observe the Feast of Trumpets, Tabernacle, Unleavened Bread...

Matthew13:9 · Sep 28, 2018

InKarpathos said:
I am writing a book and I have come up upon some scripture in Matthew 26:17 where it states "Now the first day of the feast of unleavened bread the disciples came to Jesus, saying unto him, Where wilt thou that we prepare for thee to eat the passover?"

The original Greek version has it as
"Τῇ δὲ πρώτῃ τῶν ἀζύμων προσῆλθον οἱ μαθηταὶ τῷ Ἰησοῦ λέγοντες αὐτῷ· ποῦ θέλεις ἑτοιμάσωμέν σοι φαγεῖν τὸ πάσχα;"

I have read somewhere that the word πρώτῃ means before, which in Greek make sense, but I need some documentation for this. Does anybody have any information where I can find this.
Is their an online Greek dictionary that has this definition?

I would be very careful going and getting interpretations outside the King James Bible.

Kaon · Sep 28, 2018

Matthew13:9 said:
I would be very careful going and getting interpretations outside the King James Bible.

Why? KJV was compiled by men. They made a choice on your behalf about what texts and books you should see as an adult. Then, a culture is created to stay away from those books rejected by human patriarchy systems.

The Word of God is a living entity, not a canonical text.

buzuxi02 · Sep 28, 2018

InKarpathos said:
The Apostles had everything correct, it's the people after the Apostles that changed everything.

Judging from your post #45 I guess they got alot wrong with that Jerusalem council in Acts 15.

InKarpathos · Sep 28, 2018

prodromos said:

3 days and 3 nights is a figure of speech known as synecdoche where the whole (day and night) refers to the part (Friday evening, all of the Sabbath, Sunday morning). If you don't understand this then it makes Jesus a liar for every time He said He would rise on the third day, and it would also not jive with the comments made by the disciples who met Jesus on the road to Emmaus in Luke 24:13-21.

Click to expand...

InKarpathos said:
Three day and Three nights he was dead as he told us in Matthew 12:40
"For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth."

Three Nights - This does not hold true with a Friday crucifixion and a Sunday resurrection

InKarpathos · Sep 28, 2018

buzuxi02 said:
Judging from your post #45 I guess they got along wrong with that Jerusalem council in Acts 15.

I was talking about in the 4th century.

What does the Greek word Πρώτη also mean?

Well-Known Member

Veteran

Regular Member

Veteran

Member

Member

Men dream of truth, find it then cant live with it

Senior Veteran

Member

† Handmaid of God †

Regular Member

Regular Member

Senior Veteran

Well-Known Member

Member

Active Member

Well-Known Member

Veteran

Member

Member

Similar threads