WHO DO YOU FOLLOW THE TRADITIONS OF MEN OR THE WORD OF GOD (JESUS)?

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Site Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,508
7,861
...
✟1,194,503.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Don't back peddle. Just admit is was a stupid statement and abandon it forever. I will admire you for so doing.

Well, I don't care about admiration from men (that is fleeting); For it is only God in whom I ultimately seek to please (which is eternal). Also, you are not really responding with anything of merit in regards to what I said from my previous post to you on this point and you are only offering a smart remark. Please understand that the Bible is taught by the Spirit (1 Corinthians 2:13). Paul also said he uses great plainness of speech because of the hope that he has (2 Corinthians 3:12). Paul says he would rather speak five words with the understanding than ten thousand words without the understanding (1 Corinthians 14:19). If you were to speak and write Greek to people, do you think most would understand it? Can you honestly say that Paul would not correct you on your Greek? Granted, if we say the Greek says the same thing as the English, then I don't have a problem with that. But you see, many in the "Languages Only" camp say that Greek and the English do not always say the same thing. That's where I have a problem. For the English was translated from the Greek.

Who gets to decide which words should be in the Bible or not? You? For if there is a verse that you don't like that does not line up with your preferred belief, you can fudge the Greek a little make it say what you want it to say and nobody would be the wiser because nobody today really speaks and writes Biblical Greek. You didn't repent hearing the Greek. You still refer back to the English in your Bible today. For can you say that you just read the straight Greek always? No. Of course you don't do that. Why? Because you don't speak and write Biblical Greek. Nobody does. What you have are people pretending that they know this dead language when they really do not know it.

Also, interpreting the Bible is a spiritual issue. So if your position of "Understanding is Best Primarily From the Original Languages" is true, then we should be able to see you make a Biblical case for it. For I know that I can defend my view of what is the "Word of God for our day" with Scripture. Can you say the same?
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

LoveGodsWord

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2017
22,242
6,634
Queensland
Visit site
✟252,319.00
Country
Australia
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
In case this hasn't come up yet...
Sunday is not a replacement for the Sabbath.
The day of worship was not changed to Sunday.

Jewish believers and their gentile counterparts needed a common day that they could gather, the first day of the week, the day that Christ rose from the dead was chosen a day when both could meet.

Jewish believers were not allowed to worship or confess faith in Jesus in the synagogues. And gentiles were not allowed to enter a synagogue. So, the common Sabbatarian teaching that Christians were meeting to worship Jesus in synagogues on the Sabbath is rubbish.

John 9:22
His parents said this because they were afraid of the Jewish leaders, who already had decided that anyone who acknowledged that Jesus was the Messiah would be put out of the synagogue.

Hi Steve,

In Acts 2:46-47 it says;

Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts, praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people. And the Lord added to their number daily those who were being saved.”

In Acts 5:42 it says;

Day after day, in the temple courts and from house to house, they never stopped teaching and proclaiming the good news that Jesus is the Messiah.”

Paul also went to the Temple. He went to the Temple and according to Jewish custom, participated in the purification ceremony with the four Jewish men who had taken a vow;

“Then Paul took the men, and the next day purifying himself with them went into the temple, declaring the fulfillment of the days of purification, until the offering was offered for every one of them” (Acts 21:26)

What role did the Synagogue play in the lives of the Early Church?

Paul and the early disciples, were accustomed to going to the synagogue to hear the Torah (the Law, the first five books of Moses) and Haphtorah (the Prophets) read and continued to do so after the death and resurrection of Jesus.

In Acts 13:15-41, and it says;

After the reading from the Law and the Prophets, the leaders of the synagogue sent word to them, saying, “Brothers, if you have a word of exhortation for the people, please speak.”

Standing up, Paul spoke at length (13:15-41) and verse 42 says that they were asked to by the gentiles who heard his Words in the synagogue to come back the next week “to speak further about these things on the next Sabbath”.

Acts 13:42-44,
[42], And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles sought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.
[43], Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.
[44], And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

This was no isolated incident.

ACTS 14:1 "And it came to pass in Iconium, that they went both together into the synagogue of the Jews, and so spake, that a great multitude both of the Jews and also of the Greeks believed

ACTS 17:1-4 says;

“"Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where there was a synagogue of the Jews. Then Paul, as his custom was, went in to them, and for three Sabbaths reasoned with them from the Scriptures, explaining and demonstrating that the Christ had to suffer and rise again from the dead, and saying, "This Jesus whom I preach to you is the Christ." And some of them were persuaded; and a great multitude of the devout Greeks, and not a few of the leading women, joined Paul and Silas".

ACTS 17:10-12 it also says

"And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews. These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. Therefore, many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few"

And again, in ACTS 18:4

"And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks"

The early believers went to synagogue (Acts 13:15, 42; 14:1, 17:1, 2; 17: 10, 17, 18:4, 7, 18:19, 26) and continued to go to hear the Torah and Haphtarah portion for the with the other believers. These meetings were held in homes of the early believers and they also met daily in the Temple Courts as well. (Acts 2:46).

Paul, went to the synagogue as well (Acts 13:13-15) and not just on isolated occasions. Like Jesus, Paul went to the synagogue “as was his custom on the SABBATH”. (Acts 17:2)

As was his custom, Paul went into the synagogue and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures.”

He also went and taught in the synagogue every Sabbath for 3 months (Acts 19:8).

However, as Jesus prophesied (Matt 5:11-12, Matthew 10:16-22) persecution came. The Jews had issue with the teachings of the Nazarenes. A year after the crucifixion, Stephen was stoned for what was viewed as his transgression of orthodoxy with Saul (who later became Paul) looking on. In 41 CE, Agrippa I had James martyred and Peter narrowly escaped. After Agrippa’s death, the high priest Annas II took advantage of the power vacuum to attack the Jewish believers and executed James the Just, who was considered head of Jerusalem’s Nazarene community. Paul was imprisoned on several occasions by Roman authorities, stoned by Pharisees and left for dead and was eventually taken as a prisoner to Rome. Peter was also imprisoned, beaten and harassed.

Meanwhile in the Jewish community as a whole protests about Roman taxation in 66 CE resulted in the Romans plundering the Temple and killing of 6,000 Jews. This was the start of the Jewish-Roman war (66-73 CE). The Nazarenes (early Christian believers) were seen as a Jewish sect by the Romans and fared no better than non-believing Jews and as a result of the siege of Jerusalem and the destruction of the Temple in 70 CE, fled Jerusalem.

With the Temple destroyed, the Christian believers who were accustomed to attending synagogue to hear the Law and the Prophets read continued to do so until changes in the synagogue liturgy made by Gamaliel II (grandson of the Gamaliel referred to in Acts 5) in 72-73 CE made it impossible. These changes in liturgy were designed to expose what Gamaliel considered “minim” or heretics, including the Nazarenes (Jewish believers). By adding a prayer to the Amidah (the central prayer of the liturgy) cursing the “mimin”, the Nazarenes could neither say the prayer nor respond ‘amen’ to it. So forty years after Jesus’ death, the traditional synagogue was no longer open to Jewish believers.

“Blessing” of the Heretics

The Amidah (Hebrew: תפילת העמידה, Tefilat HaAmidah, or “The Standing Prayer”) originally consisted of eighteen benedictions (blessings) written during the Mishnaic period, i.e. before the destruction of the second Temple, but an additional one called the Birkat ha-Minim (Hebrew ברכת המינים literally “Blessing on the heretics”) was added under the direction of Gamaliel II in 72-73 CE.

Rather than a blessing, the Birkat ha-Minim is a curse specifically directed at the Nazarenes (Jews who believe that Jesus is the Messiah) and other Jewish sects deemed to be heretics, including the Essenes (the sect that hid the Dead Sea Scrolls) — calling for them to be destroyed and blotted out of the Book of Life.

This is the Birkat ha-Minim;

“For the heretics let there be no hope. And let the arrogant government be speedily uprooted in our days. Let the Nazarenes [name for Jewish believers] and the minim [any of the other Jewish sects considered to be heretics] be destroyed in a moment. And let them be blotted out of the Book of Life and not be inscribed together with the righteous. Blessed art thou, O Lord, who humblest the arrogant.”

The Talmud states (B’rakhot 28b29a) that the original form of this “blessing” had the term laminim which served to separate out the Messianic Jews and other “minim”, and if the leader of a synagogue made a mistake in reading this particular blessing but none other, he was excommunicated.

The Talmud says:

“If the chazan [leader of the synagogue] makes a mistake in any other of the blessings they do not remove him, but if he makes a mistake when saying the Birkat HaMinim they remove him because he is suspected of being a min [heretic] himself” (B’rakhot 28b).

For the first 3 generations after the death of Jesus, the Jewish believers were still able to attend the traditional synagogue but in 72-73 CE (40 years after Jesus’ death), the addition of the Birkat ha-Minim forced the Jewish believers from the traditional synagogue. (Main source: Jewish Roots of Christianity).

Sorry Steve, God's WORD disagrees with you.

Hope this helps.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Saint Steven

You can call me Steve
Site Supporter
Jul 2, 2018
18,580
11,386
Minneapolis, MN
✟930,146.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Hi Steve,

In Acts 2:46-47 it says;

Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts, praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people. And the Lord added to their number daily those who were being saved.”

In Acts 5:42 it says;

Day after day, in the temple courts and from house to house, they never stopped teaching and proclaiming the good news that Jesus is the Messiah.”

Paul also went to the Temple. He went to the Temple and according to Jewish custom, participated in the purification ceremony with the four Jewish men who had taken a vow;

“Then Paul took the men, and the next day purifying himself with them went into the temple, declaring the fulfillment of the days of purification, until the offering was offered for every one of them” (Acts 21:26)

What role did the Synagogue play in the lives of the Early Church?

Paul and the early disciples, were accustomed to going to the synagogue to hear the Torah (the Law, the first five books of Moses) and Haphtorah (the Prophets) read and continued to do so after the death and resurrection of Jesus.

In Acts 13:15-41, and it says;

After the reading from the Law and the Prophets, the leaders of the synagogue sent word to them, saying, “Brothers, if you have a word of exhortation for the people, please speak.”

Standing up, Paul spoke at length (13:15-41) and verse 42 says that they were asked to by the gentiles who heard his Words in the synagogue to come back the next week “to speak further about these things on the next Sabbath”.

Acts 13:42-44,
[42], And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles sought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.
[43], Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.
[44], And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

This was no isolated incident.

ACTS 14:1 "And it came to pass in Iconium, that they went both together into the synagogue of the Jews, and so spake, that a great multitude both of the Jews and also of the Greeks believed

The early believers went to synagogue (Acts 13:15, 42; 14:1, 17:1, 2; 17: 10, 17, 18:4, 7, 18:19, 26) and continued to go to hear the Torah and Haphtarah portion for the with the other believers. These meetings were held in homes of the early believers and they also met daily in the Temple Courts as well. (Acts 2:46).

Paul, went to the synagogue as well (Acts 13:13-15) and not just on isolated occasions. Like Jesus, Paul went to the synagogue “as was his custom on the SABBATH”. (Acts 17:2)

As was his custom, Paul went into the synagogue and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures.”

He also went and taught in the synagogue every Sabbath for 3 months (Acts 19:8).

However, as Jesus prophesied (Matt 5:11-12, Matthew 10:16-22) persecution came. The Jews had issue with the teachings of the Nazarenes. A year after the crucifixion, Stephen was stoned for what was viewed as his transgression of orthodoxy with Saul (who later became Paul) looking on. In 41 CE, Agrippa I had James martyred and Peter narrowly escaped. After Agrippa’s death, the high priest Annas II took advantage of the power vacuum to attack the Jewish believers and executed James the Just, who was considered head of Jerusalem’s Nazarene community. Paul was imprisoned on several occasions by Roman authorities, stoned by Pharisees and left for dead and was eventually taken as a prisoner to Rome. Peter was also imprisoned, beaten and harassed.

Meanwhile in the Jewish community as a whole protests about Roman taxation in 66 CE resulted in the Romans plundering the Temple and killing of 6,000 Jews. This was the start of the Jewish-Roman war (66-73 CE). The Nazarenes (early Christian believers) were seen as a Jewish sect by the Romans and fared no better than non-believing Jews and as a result of the siege of Jerusalem and the destruction of the Temple in 70 CE, fled Jerusalem.

With the Temple destroyed, the Christian believers who were accustomed to attending synagogue to hear the Law and the Prophets read continued to do so until changes in the synagogue liturgy made by Gamaliel II (grandson of the Gamaliel referred to in Acts 5) in 72-73 CE made it impossible. These changes in liturgy were designed to expose what Gamaliel considered “minim” or heretics, including the Nazarenes (Jewish believers). By adding a prayer to the Amidah (the central prayer of the liturgy) cursing the “mimin”, the Nazarenes could neither say the prayer nor respond ‘amen’ to it. So forty years after Jesus’ death, the traditional synagogue was no longer open to Jewish believers.

“Blessing” of the Heretics

The Amidah (Hebrew: תפילת העמידה, Tefilat HaAmidah, or “The Standing Prayer”) originally consisted of eighteen benedictions (blessings) written during the Mishnaic period, i.e. before the destruction of the second Temple, but an additional one called the Birkat ha-Minim (Hebrew ברכת המינים literally “Blessing on the heretics”) was added under the direction of Gamaliel II in 72-73 CE.

Rather than a blessing, the Birkat ha-Minim is a curse specifically directed at the Nazarenes (Jews who believe that Jesus is the Messiah) and other Jewish sects deemed to be heretics, including the Essenes (the sect that hid the Dead Sea Scrolls) — calling for them to be destroyed and blotted out of the Book of Life.

This is the Birkat ha-Minim;

“For the heretics let there be no hope. And let the arrogant government be speedily uprooted in our days. Let the Nazarenes [name for Jewish believers] and the minim [any of the other Jewish sects considered to be heretics] be destroyed in a moment. And let them be blotted out of the Book of Life and not be inscribed together with the righteous. Blessed art thou, O Lord, who humblest the arrogant.”

The Talmud states (B’rakhot 28b29a) that the original form of this “blessing” had the term laminim which served to separate out the Messianic Jews and other “minim”, and if the leader of a synagogue made a mistake in reading this particular blessing but none other, he was excommunicated.

The Talmud says:

“If the chazan [leader of the synagogue] makes a mistake in any other of the blessings they do not remove him, but if he makes a mistake when saying the Birkat HaMinim they remove him because he is suspected of being a min [heretic] himself” (B’rakhot 28b).

For the first 3 generations after the death of Jesus, the Jewish believers were still able to attend the traditional synagogue but in 72-73 CE (40 years after Jesus’ death), the addition of the Birkat ha-Minim forced the Jewish believers from the traditional synagogue. (Original source: Jewish Roots of Christianity).

Sorry Steve, God's WORD disagrees with you.

Hope this helps.
You are 100 percent wrong on this.
Any gentiles that were in synagogues were Jewish proselytes.
The Apostle Peter said it best.

Acts 10:28
He said to them: “You are well aware that it is against our law for a Jew to associate with or visit a Gentile. But God has shown me that I should not call anyone impure or unclean.
 
Upvote 0

LoveGodsWord

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2017
22,242
6,634
Queensland
Visit site
✟252,319.00
Country
Australia
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
You are 100 percent wrong on this.
Any gentiles that were in synagogues were Jewish proselytes.
The Apostle Peter said it best.

Acts 10:28
He said to them: “You are well aware that it is against our law for a Jew to associate with or visit a Gentile. But God has shown me that I should not call anyone impure or unclean.

Hello Steve, your a funny one aren't you? You did not read the post above yours and the scriptures and historical comments did you?

We are talking about believers not unbelievers. Sorry Steve God's WORD disagrees with you and there is a lot of it in the post above yours. It was not until AD 70 some time after the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem that gentile believers could not enter the Jewish temple courts to hear the Word of God.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Site Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,508
7,861
...
✟1,194,503.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Can you show me where in 1 Corinthians 16:1-2 where there is a Christian 'gather[ing]' on the first day of the week? It says, to gather materials personally at home, individually:

1Co 16:1 Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye.
1Co 16:2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

Where is the meeting or 'gathering' together that you suggest?

Again:

1Co 16:2 κατα μιαν σαββατων εκαστος υμων παρ εαυτω τιθετω θησαυριζων ο τι αν ευοδωται ινα μη οταν ελθω τοτε λογιαι γινωνται

Again the Sabbath of the Lord is still the 7th day, the culmination of the week in 1 Corinthians 16. The first day is just a day towards that end, of God's rest.

Let's read it:

1 "Now about the collection for the Lord’s people: Do what I told the Galatian churches to do.
2 On the first day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with your income, saving it up, so that when I come no collections will have to be made." (1 Corinthians 16:1-2) (NIV).​

Paul even gives the order of having the collection on the first day of the week to Galatia and not just to the church at Corinth. This was to be done the first day of the week (Sunday) and not on the Sabbath day (Saturday). Paul tells them to make this collection every first day of the week so that they do not have to make any collections when he comes. Now, how can any collections be made when he comes? Do they just deposit into Paul's swiss bank account? No. They actually do it the old fashioned way. They have a time of collection. This was generally done by gathering together. We see this elsewhere in Scripture.

"Therefore I thought it necessary to exhort the brethren, that they would go before unto you, and make up beforehand your bounty, whereof ye had notice before, that the same might be ready, as a matter of bounty, and not as of covetousness." (2 Corinthians 9:5) (KJV).

"That is why I thought it necessary to urge these brethren to go to you before I do and make arrangements in advance for this bountiful, promised gift of yours, so that it may be ready, not as an extortion [wrung out of you] but as a generous and willing gift." (2 Corinthians 9:5) (AMPC).
 
Upvote 0

Saint Steven

You can call me Steve
Site Supporter
Jul 2, 2018
18,580
11,386
Minneapolis, MN
✟930,146.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Hello Steve, your a funny one aren't you? You did not read the post above yours and the scriptures and historical comments did you? We are talking about believers not unbelievers. Sorry Steve God's WORD disagrees with you and there is a lot of it.
The Apostle Paul was doing evangelism, not having a service with believers in Christ. And they did so at the risk of their own lives. You quoted Acts fourteen verse one. Look at the context below.

Acts 14:1-6
At Iconium Paul and Barnabas went as usual into the Jewish synagogue. There they spoke so effectively that a great number of Jews and Greeks believed. 2 But the Jews who refused to believe stirred up the other Gentiles and poisoned their minds against the brothers. 3 So Paul and Barnabas spent considerable time there, speaking boldly for the Lord, who confirmed the message of his grace by enabling them to perform signs and wonders. 4 The people of the city were divided; some sided with the Jews, others with the apostles. 5 There was a plot afoot among both Gentiles and Jews, together with their leaders, to mistreat them and stone them. 6 But they found out about it and fled to the Lycaonian cities of Lystra and Derbe and to the surrounding country,
 
Upvote 0

LoveGodsWord

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2017
22,242
6,634
Queensland
Visit site
✟252,319.00
Country
Australia
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
The Apostle Paul was doing evangelism, not having a service with believers in Christ. And they did so at the risk of their own lives. You quoted Acts fourteen verse one. Look at the context below.

Acts 14:1-6
At Iconium Paul and Barnabas went as usual into the Jewish synagogue. There they spoke so effectively that a great number of Jews and Greeks believed. 2 But the Jews who refused to believe stirred up the other Gentiles and poisoned their minds against the brothers. 3 So Paul and Barnabas spent considerable time there, speaking boldly for the Lord, who confirmed the message of his grace by enabling them to perform signs and wonders. 4 The people of the city were divided; some sided with the Jews, others with the apostles. 5 There was a plot afoot among both Gentiles and Jews, together with their leaders, to mistreat them and stone them. 6 But they found out about it and fled to the Lycaonian cities of Lystra and Derbe and to the surrounding country,

Of course Paul was sharing the gospel and doing missionary work who said anything different? Not me. Your making an argument with yourself.

Jews and gentiles gathered in the temple to hear the Word of GOD. If you read post # 262 linked click me you would know this, seems you did not.

Lot of scriptures there I suggest you read them rather then ignore them and pretend they do not exist. Why do you think ACTS 14:1-6 supports anything you are saying? It does not.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

LoveGodsWord

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2017
22,242
6,634
Queensland
Visit site
✟252,319.00
Country
Australia
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Let's read it:

1 "Now about the collection for the Lord’s people: Do what I told the Galatian churches to do.
2 On the first day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with your income, saving it up, so that when I come no collections will have to be made." (1 Corinthians 16:1-2) (NIV).​

Paul even gives the order of having the collection on the first day of the week to Galatia and not just to the church at Corinth. This was to be done the first day of the week (Sunday) and not on the Sabbath day (Saturday). Paul tells them to make this collection every first day of the week so that they do not have to make any collections when he comes. Now, how can any collections be made when he comes? Do they just deposit into Paul's swiss bank account? No. They actually do it the old fashioned way. They have a time of collection. This was generally done by gathering together. We see this elsewhere in Scripture.

"Therefore I thought it necessary to exhort the brethren, that they would go before unto you, and make up beforehand your bounty, whereof ye had notice before, that the same might be ready, as a matter of bounty, and not as of covetousness." (2 Corinthians 9:5) (KJV).

"That is why I thought it necessary to urge these brethren to go to you before I do and make arrangements in advance for this bountiful, promised gift of yours, so that it may be ready, not as an extortion [wrung out of you] but as a generous and willing gift." (2 Corinthians 9:5) (AMPC).

Jason, what is your point here in 1 Corinthians 16:2? The reason why the believers were to prepare their offerings on the frist day of the week was that Paul was passing through and needed to collect the offerings to on his way to Jerusalem *1 CORINTHIANS 16:1-8.

So my friend no where in this chapter does it say that God's 4th commandment has been ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day does it?

I am not really sure why you feel the need to share this scriptures or how you think it supports your tradition. Maybe it is something you have been talking about with Evangelived? I will let him respond if he sees it.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Natsumi Lam
Upvote 0

BNR32FAN

He’s a Way of life
Site Supporter
Aug 11, 2017
22,625
7,381
Dallas
✟888,614.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Not really simply reading something into the scriptures that is not there does not make what you read into them become true. If you believe ROMANS 14 is talking about God's 4th Commandment then prove it. So far you haven't but simply read in to the scriptures something that is not even mentioned in the whole chapter.

ROMANS 14 is talking about days that men esteem over other days, not what days God esteems and is talking about eating and not eating [fasting] and juding others. There is no mention of God's 4th commandment in the entire chapter. Where does it say in ROMANS 14 that God's 4th commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day? It doesn't.

.............

SIN is the transgression or breakin gof God's Commandments (Romans 7:7; James 2:8-12; 1 John 3:4) Those who CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

.............

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).

Wow deja vu
 
  • Haha
Reactions: Saint Steven
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Site Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,508
7,861
...
✟1,194,503.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
I see you had to "add" your own words and meaning into the text. Where does the text say "Lord's supper"?

They broke bread at the Lord's supper;
And they were told to do this in remembrance of Him.

"And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me." (Luke 22:19).​

Act_2:46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,

This was at Pentecost (Which was a unique one time event).
About three thousand souls were added to the number of the church that day. They continued daily with one accord in the temple and they did not just continue with one accord on only the Sabbath. They break bread from house to house because they were keeping the Lord's supper in each other's homes.

Act_5:42 And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ.

This was just this one temple from Pentecost. When Paul went out on his missionary journey, he ran into synagogues that were not entirely converted like at Pentecost. Jesus told his disciples to go and preach the gospel to all nations. Did they take the temple (where 3,000 souls converted) with them? Surely not. This was a one time unique event. It is was the beginning of the church. It was not how things were as they went out and evangelized.

You said:
Where is the "Cup" of the Lord as Paul said, in Acts 20:7 or anywhere in Acts 20?

1Co_10:16 The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?

1 Corinthians 10:16 says the bread which we break. Paul says is this not the communion of the body of Christ? So when they break bread it is the Lord's supper. Believers do not gather to break bread every first day of the week for no reason. Surely it is not a coincidence that they did this celebration on the first day of the week when they discovered when the Lord was risen, too.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

LoveGodsWord

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2017
22,242
6,634
Queensland
Visit site
✟252,319.00
Country
Australia
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
They broke bread at the Lord's supper;
And they were told to do this in remembrance of Him.

"And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me." (Luke 22:19).​



This was at Pentecost (Which was a unique one time event).
About three thousand souls were added to the number of the church that day. They continued daily with one accord in the temple and not just continue with one accord on the Sabbath. They break bread from house to house because they were keeping the Lord's supper in each other's homes.



This was just this one temple from Pentecost. When Paul went out on his missionary journey, he ran into synagogues that were not entirely converted like at Pentecost. Jesus told his disciples to go and preach the gospel to all nations. Did they take the temple (where 3,000 souls converted) with them? Surely not. This was a one time unique event. It is was the beginning of the church. It was not how things were as they went out and evangelized.



1 Corinthians 10:16 says the bread which we break. Paul says is this not the communion of the body of Christ? So when they break bread it is the Lord's supper. Believers do not gather to break bread every first day of the week for no reason. Surely it is not a coincidence that they did this celebration on the first day of the week when they discovered when the Lord was risen.

And this says God's 4th Commandment is Abolsihed and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day how and where exactly? It seems you are trying to read into the scriptures something they are not saying.
 
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Site Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,508
7,861
...
✟1,194,503.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
There was no bible for the first 380 years of Christianity. There were a ton of writings claimed to be devinely inspired and many forgeries claimed to be written by the apostles themselves. How did they determine which writings were inspired and which weren’t? Ecumenical council is how. The exact same way the church decided on its traditions. Why is it that we can accept the Church was correct on compiling the Bible but not correct on establishing traditions? Sunday worship is a tradition of man. There are many good sound traditions of the church that are seriously misunderstood. There are also some that are not so good. It pretty much comes down to when and by whom the tradition was established.

"Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away." (Matthew 24:35).

Ultimately, it was God who decided what books belonged in the biblical canon. A book of Scripture belonged in the canon from the moment God inspired its writing. It was simply a matter of God’s convincing His human followers which books should be included in the Bible.


Source:
How and when was the canon of the Bible put together?
(Note: I am merely agreeing with this quote in their article; This does not mean I endorse this article in it's entirety or their other articles).
 
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Site Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,508
7,861
...
✟1,194,503.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Romans 14 is another great example of the Saturday Sabbath and the dietetic laws being done away with. Although I do believe that we should still set aside a day of worship to God. I believe we now have been given more freedom as to which day we can worship. I believe we are still under the purpose of the law and we must still honor God which was the purpose of the Sabbath.

Hebrews 7:12 says the Law has changed.
Colossians 2:14-17 refers to ordinances that were blotted out and nailed to the cross and these ordinances included the sabbath days and dietary laws.
 
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Site Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,508
7,861
...
✟1,194,503.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
And this says God's 4th Commandment is Abolsihed and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day how and where exactly? It seems you are trying to read into the scriptures something they are not saying.

The point here is that a good while after Pentecost, we see Christians gather on the first day of the week for two reasons.

#1. The collection (1 Corinthians 16:1-2).
#2. The breaking of bread (the Lord's supper)
(Acts of the Apostles 20:7).​

This was amongst believers only!
Paul only preached on the Saturday Sabbath in synagogues because that is the time and place the Jews worshiped. Paul and or others did not say that they kept the Sabbath so as to keep it holy or because they were obeying God's commandment on the Sabbath. These synagogues were not fellowship meetings of believers only. For what fellowship does light have with darkness? Paul was not having fellowship with unbelievers and believers in an unbelieving Jewish synagogue. The synagogue was a reminder of the old false way that did not accept Jesus. It was not a Christian place. In order to worship God, you would all have to be in one accord worshiping God together. Worshiping God is what takes place even on the Sabbath. But you cannot do that if there are unbelievers there who do not worship the Lord Jesus Christ. While many Christians know the Sabbath is not in effect today, if the Sabbath was in effect, you cannot keep the Sabbath in an unbelieving institution and or place that rejects Jesus. It would be having fellowship with darkness.

But if Paul was seeking to save the lost as a part of trying to evangelize them, then that is different. He is trying to be a physician among the sick.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Cis.jd

Well-Known Member
Dec 3, 2015
3,613
1,484
New York, NY
✟140,465.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
But if the Sola Scriptura position is true (and it is), then this only proves that men are either not interpreting God’s Word correctly to begin with because they prefer their sin, or they have fallen away from the faith. It is an internal problem and not Sola Scriptura. You fail to understand that John tells us about brethren who did not need any man to teach them because they have the anointing of the Spirit. This truth goes against what you are saying here. You also should read my Biblical defense for Sola Scriptura. I posted two links for you to another set of posts of mine on this (here at CF). If you have any regard for what the Bible says, you should at least look at the verses I presented.

Nope, it is the problem of Sola Scriptura. You would be right if Protestantism isn't currently more than 3,000 different denominations world wide, but it is. In fact, 50 years after the birth of Protestantism there was already more than 30 different denominations. Sola Scriptura is under no guidance, it is pure self interpretation and there is no one there to tell this person is wrong.

Lets go back to that "Why do you believe the NT canon" question I gave you. If someone came to you and said "the book of Hebrews isn't an inspired word, the Catholic church just put that there and rejected Acts of Pilot"... what is your Sola Scriptura going to do, when it has nothing that states what books are infallible?

This example I gave you actually happened, go google Luther's Canon. He wanted to remove Hebrews, James, Jude and Revelation because of it contradicting Protestantism. Lutherans are also Sola Scriptura, just like your denomination, but I know there is a lot of doctrinal disagreements between both of you. Every protestant denomination is a reformation of a former protestant denomination, and each and every one claim it's basis to be Sola Scriptura.

God has taught his people to do more than just write. Even the Bible says that Jesus taught his apostles many things and did many things - not all of it was written down (John 21:25) some of it was taught orally and it was passed down from his apostles to theirs, all the way to now (2 thess 2:15).

I have already taken a look at your links, they are old arguments that many here have dealt with.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: Saint Steven
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

LoveGodsWord

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2017
22,242
6,634
Queensland
Visit site
✟252,319.00
Country
Australia
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
The point here is that a good while after Pentecost, we see Christians gather on the first day of the week for two reasons.

#1. The collection (1 Corinthians 16:1-2).
#2. The breaking of bread (the Lord's supper)
(Acts of the Apostles 20:7).​

This was amongst believers only!
Paul only preached on the Saturday Sabbath in synagogues because that is the time and place the Jews worshiped. Paul and or others did not say that they kept the Sabbath so as to keep it holy or because they were obeying God's commandment on the Sabbath. These synagogues were not fellowship meetings of believers only. For what fellowship does light have with darkness? Paul was not having fellowship with unbelievers and believers in an unbelieving Jewish synagogue. The synagogue was a reminder of the old false way that did not accept Jesus. It was not a Christian place. In order to worship God, you would all have to be in one accord worshiping God together. Worshiping God is what takes place even on the Sabbath. But you cannot do that if there are unbelievers there who do not worship the Lord Jesus Christ. While many Christians know the Sabbath is not in effect today, if the Sabbath was in effect, you cannot keep the Sabbath in an unbelieving institution and or place that rejects Jesus. It would be having fellowship with darkness.

You really have not made any points at all Jason, because the believers met every day of the week not just on the 1st day of the week.

Act_2:46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,

Act_5:42 And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ.

The rest of your post I will ignore because your trying to make arguments no one is talking about using your own words in place of God's WORD.

None of the scriptures you have provided say that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLSIHED and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day do they?
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Site Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,508
7,861
...
✟1,194,503.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Nope, it is the problem of Sola Scriptura. You would be right if Protestantism isn't currently more than 3,000 different denominations world wide, but it is. In fact, 50 years after the birth of Protestantism there was already more than 30 different denominations. Sola Scriptura is under no guidance, it is pure self interpretation and there is no one there to tell this person is wrong.

Lets go back to that "Why do you believe the NT canon" question I gave you. If someone came to you and said "the book of Hebrews isn't an inspired word, the Catholic church just put that there and rejected Acts of Pilot"... what is your Sola Scriptura going to do, when it has nothing that states what books are infallible?

This example I gave you actually happened, go google Luther's Canon. He wanted to remove Hebrews, James, Jude and Revelation because of it contradicting Protestantism. Lutherans are also Sola Scriptura, just like your denomination, but I know there is a lot of doctrinal disagreements between both of you. Every protestant denomination is a reformation of a former protestant denomination, and each and every one claim it's basis to be Sola Scriptura.

God has taught his people to do more than just write. Even the Bible says that Jesus taught his apostles many things and did many things - not all of it was written down (John 21:25) some of it was taught orally and it was passed down from his apostles to theirs, all the way to now (2 thess 2:15).

I have already taken a look at your links, they are old arguments that many here have dealt with.

There is...

1. An attack on God's Word: Many religions have been formed on some alteration of the Bible and not other holy books so much. There is also the attack on God's Word through Modern Translations, as well. In other words, the Bible is attacked because it has value (Much like a bank is attacked sometimes because it has value inside them).
2. Science that backs up God's Word (see this link here).
3. Superior form of Morality taught.
4. A way of salvation & transformation through Christ (Which genuinely satisfies the soul, filling a person with a true love, joy, and peace).
5. Cross References (the NT canon is confirmed in that it refers to itself internally many times, including the OT canon; There is light and understanding through the use of cross references that clearly is divine).
6. Biblical Numerics (Divine fingerprints) (See this link here).
7. Fulfillment of Messianic Prophecies.
8. Typifications of Christ in the OT.​

Other supposed holy books like the Apocrypha, the gospel of Thomas, the book of Mormon, and church traditions (outside of God's Word), etc. have two major flaws.

1. It contradicts Scripture (God's Word) in some way.
2. It fails the divinity test. It is a flawed transmission in some way and has major problems that cannot really be explained correctly.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Site Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,508
7,861
...
✟1,194,503.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
You really have not made any points at all Jason, because the believers met every day of the week not just on the 1st day of the week.

Act_2:46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,

Act_5:42 And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ.

The rest of your post I will ignore because your trying to make arguments no one is talking about using your own words in place of God's WORD.

None of the scriptures you have provided say that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLSIHED and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day do they?

That's okay. I am not really interested in rehashing the same points all over again anymore. What I have said with Scripture stands. Believe as you will. Nothing I say with Scripture is going to convince you. I only said what I did as a benefit for others readers who may come across this forum later down the road.
 
Upvote 0

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Site Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,492
28,588
73
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,270.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
[LoveGodsWord said:
Hi Albion, thanks for sharing your thoughts again, they are appreciated. I had a look at your link but I could not find a single scripture that says that God's 4th commandment is now abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day in it's place now could you?
Jesus came to fulfill not abolish, so let's not force people into unscriptural language. The thing with the Sabbath is the logic of the law goes to our very breath as "work" and to truly keep the Sabbath we would have to stop breathing before sundown Friday and then start breathing again sometime after sundown Saturday... can you think of one who has done this? Does this act fulfill the Sabbath? What does a fulfilled Sabbath look like?
^_^
Oh my, help me Lord! I can't breathe.......That's a keeper LOL

Lazarus, Jesus and the 2 witnesses in Reve 11 held their breath for over 3 days before being "resuscitated" :) ;)

Lazarus and 2 witnesses of Reve 11 similarity
Lazarus, Jesus and 2 Witnesses being revived after 3 and 1/2 days


John 11
39 Jesus is saying "take away ye!" the stone.
Martha is saying to Him, the sister of the one having deceased, "Lord, already he stinking, for it is fourth-day
43 And these saying, to a great Voice He cries-out "Lazarus! hither out!
44 The man who had died came out, his hands and feet bound with linen strips, and his face wrapped with a cloth. Jesus said to them, “Unbind him, and let him go.”
45 Many of the Jews therefore, who had come with Mary and had seen what he did, believed in him

Revelation 11

9 And are observing out of the peoples and tribes and tongues and nations the *bodies of them three and half days
and the bodies of them not they suffer to be placed into tomb.
11 And after the three and a half days a breath of life out of the God entered in them and they stand upon their feet and fear great fall upon the ones observing them.
12 And they hear a great Voice out of the Heaven saying to them "ascend ye here!" And they ascended into the heaven in the cloud....

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary

Luke 16:22
Became yet to be dying the poor-one, and him to be
carried away by the Messengers into the Bosom of Abraham.
Died yet also the rich-one and was buried.

lazarus-card-card_playing-gamble-dre0993_low.jpg
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

DamianWarS

Follower of Isa Al Masih
Site Supporter
May 15, 2008
9,486
3,322
✟858,457.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Lazarus, Jesus and the 2 witnesses in Reve 11 held their breath for over 3 days before being "resuscitated"

Christ rested over the sabbath I'm not so sure about the others. If they had (or will) it was not important enough to mention.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0