Are women Christians and Jewish Christians still under law?

ewq1938 · Sep 25, 2018

No one is under the old law because it no longer exists. The only law that exists is the law of Christ, also called the law of liberty.

Heb 10:8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
Heb 10:9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

lsume · Sep 26, 2018

~Cassia~ said:
I have heard from some that the curse from Adam's time has been completely removed only for Gentile men.

I don't understand their semantics to back up their statements. Can this be discussed using scripture for and against the argument please.

Examples would be from @Dave-W (posted below) and I think I also heard @RDKirk expressing the same semantic, if they could contribute to the thread would be appreciated.

Myself I don't believe there is a difference between Jew, Gentile, slave, free, women or men in the accomplishments of Christ because that simply was the point of His mission was to make whole the body. I believe Paul used metaphors that people don't get past to find the truth. But I find that the metaphors are used as truth that I believe are really a lie are being propagated.

I prefer to stay out of that debate and would just like to hear the semantics it's coming from. Thanks

Why do some women contribute to their own oppression?

↑
I thought that curse was reversed at the cross?
Not “reversed,” but partly nullified. The full nullification will not occur until the very end, when we no longer have to deal with sickness or death.

Hannah's prayer

↑
Good point. Do you believe that when Paul vowed that he was treading the line between old and new?
Not really. It boils down to the issue brought up at the First Jerusalem council in Acts 15 - which exempted GENTILE converts from following the Law of Moses. It did NOT include Jews who came to faith in Messiah. They still had (and HAVE) to follow the Law in a New Covenant way. .......

If that were true why would Gentile women still be inclusive. Makes no sense.

What Christ brought to man is the opportunity to be saved and live for eternity in Heaven. However, what Christ also brought made it impossible to get to Heaven without having Christ living within you. Christ reinforces the command to be obedient to God’s Word. Until Christ has moved in with your soul and cleansed it and taught you muany things, it is impossible to go to Heaven.

Citizen of the Kingdom · Sep 26, 2018

Thanks for the comments. Feel free to continue with the discussion. God bless ya'll

RDKirk · Sep 26, 2018

~Cassia~ said:
I have heard from some thristat the curse from Adam's time has been completely removed only for Gentile men.

I don't understand their semantics to back up their statements. Can this be discussed using scripture for and against the argument please.

Examples would be from @Dave-W (posted below) and I think I also heard @RDKirk expressing the same semantic, if they could contribute to the thread would be appreciated.

No, you never heard me say anything like that.

I'm not ever sure what you mean by "the curse from Adam's time has been completely removed" from anyone, except for those in Christ.

What I have said is this: There are certain principles stated in the New Testament that are in reference to how things in the Body of Christ are supposed to be, although the fact we are in a fallen world sometimes makes those ideals difficult or impossible to achieve.

Here is a principle:

There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. -- Galatians 3.

In my mind, that principle, if it does anything, certainly destroys the idea that "the curse from Adam's time has been completely removed only for Gentile men."

I believe that we should make ever attempt to fully meet the ideal of such principles within the Body of Christ to the greatest degree we can while we are in this fallen world.

Citizen of the Kingdom · Sep 27, 2018

RDKirk said:
No, you never heard me say anything like that.

I'm not ever sure what you mean by "the curse from Adam's time has been completely removed" from anyone, except for those in Christ.

What I have said is this: There are certain principles stated in the New Testament that are in reference to how things in the Body of Christ are supposed to be, although the fact we are in a fallen world sometimes makes those ideals difficult or impossible to achieve.

Here is a principle:

There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. -- Galatians 3.

In my mind, that principle, if it does anything, certainly destroys the idea that "the curse from Adam's time has been completely removed only for Gentile men."

I believe that we should make ever attempt to fully meet the ideal of such principles within the Body of Christ to the greatest degree we can while we are in this fallen world.

I didn’t have a quote as to why I had thought that you expressed that theory, so I apologize in misunderstanding and misaligning the thought you were expressing. You have expressed, again w/o quotes, except expressed in the above post:

“I believe that we should make ever attempt to fully meet the ideal of such principles within the Body of Christ to the greatest degree we can while we are in this fallen world.” and

“What I have said is this: There are certain principles stated in the New Testament that are in reference to how things in the Body of Christ are supposed to be, although the fact we are in a fallen world sometimes makes those ideals difficult or impossible to achieve.”

and from what I remember you advocated much in helping to meet those by programs to assist the poor and women in need.
Examples such as church programs for fixing vehicles for single moms etc. which are highly commendable for all churches. Maybe what I thought implied inequality was something about lack of the teaching about said equality in churches in placing some ahead of others. But since you have said that isn’t the case then I stand corrected. Or did you?

Thanks for taking the time to respond, RD, we’ve been witness to these things from the beginning of much of the problems on CF also so I very much appreciate and respect your opinion.

Citizen of the Kingdom · Sep 27, 2018

The law of the spirit in our spirit is deliverance from God. Reformation in the ways of mankind are exertion of human strength by inflicting harsh treatment on the body thereby hopefully subduing it’s passion and bringing forth in mankind the desired effect in the rest of the body.

God’s Way is deliverance thru His Spirit and His life being put into the human spirit when we empty ourselves of self. A renewing work begins in man, woman and child when the spirit is thus quickened. And it brings renewing first to the spirit, then the soul (in both their various parts) and then, in the completion, to the physical body.

Citizen of the Kingdom · Sep 27, 2018

I was thinking about this topic and going far beyond the obvious of silence that is a law enforced only in the book of Esther by a Persian king, following Rabbinic
law and nowhere else in the bible,

progressing to the church aspect of teaching only the words of God not human interpretation because the sum of His teachings are found in the volume of the book

culminating in being still and knowing He is God

I wonder why the totality of the teaching isn’t taught in combination with the rest because whether your a parent teaching a child, a preacher putting together a 3-point sermon or a street evangelist conversing in a structured manner to aide understanding, the steps are easy to follow and remember and are the way of the new testament teachers. Otherwise your left with someone asking why they have not been taught that, or thinking you lied to them because they received only a half-truth which is really just a biased opinion when the truth is not taught as a whole.

For instance I was looking at shepherds. Most shepherds in the bible were women. But beside the point because when we don’t relate things to Christ we’re missing the point of the story. (Try never getting off the topic of Christ with a JW and you’ll win every time)

Any way Psalms 22. It begins with “My God why have you forsaken me” and ends with “It is finished” Grace was achieved there.

John 10:11
I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep.

One definite thing that was finished was bitterness. Trust me on that or the scripture is at the end of the post… It helps to see and prove Christ's overcoming to the new creation.

Then Psalms 23 is His present guidance for those who believe.

Hebrews 13:20
Now may the God of peace who brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, the great shepherd of the sheep, by the blood of the eternal covenant,

Followed up with Psalms 24, which is future glory.

1 Peter 5:4
And when the chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the unfading crown of glory.

Speaking on one point alone without the whole being taught isn’t teaching imhonesto

Bitterness is an reaction to the bite of venom from satan. The old testament reaction that is. The new testament reaction does not include bitterness but doesn't exclude the pain from the bite. Bitterness of the Old testament isn't the same as Christians are meant to experience in the New Testament.
The old testement refers to "the angry discontent of a rebelious person" resulting from the "poison venom of the serpent".
Look at these results from a search of Strong's Concordence on the word bitter or bitterness in the Hebrew
4751 mar mar or (feminine) marah {maw-raw'}; from 4843; bitter (literally or figuratively); also (as noun) bitterness, or (adverbially) bitterly:--+ angry, bitter(-ly, -ness), chafed, discontented, X great, heavy.
4805 mriy mer-ee' from 4784; bitterness, i.e. (figuratively) rebellion; concretely, bitter, or rebellious:--bitter, (most) rebel(-lion, -lious).
4846 mrorah mer-o-raw' or mrowrah {mer-o-raw'}; from 4843; properly, bitterness; concretely, a bitter thing; specifically bile; also venom (of a serpent):--bitter (thing), gall.

There are other references in the OT but these are the usual meaning. There is, however, only 4 meanings for the same words in the NT.

When bitterness is spoken of in the NT believer it refers to a bitter and violent piercing and makes no mention of anger, discontent or rebellion.
Results in Greek

4087. pikraino pik-rah'-ee-no from 4089; to embitter (literally or figuratively):--be (make) bitter.
4088. pikria pik-ree'-ah from 4089; acridity (especially poison), literally or figuratively:--bitterness.
4089. pikros pik-ros' perhaps from 4078 (through the idea of piercing); sharp (pungent), i.e. acrid (literally or figuratively):--bitter.
4090. pikros pik-roce' adverb from 4089; bitterly, i.e. (figuratively) violently:--bitterly.

Satan can still bite the new creation of believers, sometimes using those closest to us to inflict the pain. But ....

Jesus' saving grace saves us from the anger, discontent and rebellion but not from the pain involved from the poison inflicted on tender hearts, made more tender from association with Jesus. Jesus' compassion always shone through His pain, but no doubt Satan inflicted serious poison on His soul, probably more than any other.
It also helps to see and prove Christ's overcoming to the new creation

[/quote]

BobRyan · Oct 2, 2018

~Cassia~ said:
I have heard from some that the curse from Adam's time has been completely removed only for Gentile men.

Sounds like total nonsense to me.

I prefer the actual Bible

Gal 3:"28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. "

"more Bible - less making stuff up" I always say.

1 John 2:2 "Christ is the atoning Sacrifice for OUR sins and not for our sins only but for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD"

Those who repent and confess - are forgiven 1 John 1:9.

Trust the Bible.

As for the "curse of the ground" in Genesis 3 -- it is still there
As for the pain in childbirth - it is still there.

As for everyone getting old and dying because we do not have access to the Tree of Life ... yep... still there.

in Christ,

Bob

BobRyan · Oct 3, 2018

RDKirk said:
Here is a principle:

There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. -- Galatians 3.

In my mind, that principle, if it does anything, certainly destroys the idea that "the curse from Adam's time has been completely removed only for Gentile men."

I believe that we should make ever attempt to fully meet the ideal of such principles within the Body of Christ to the greatest degree we can while we are in this fallen world.

Amen!

Search

Search

Are women Christians and Jewish Christians still under law?

ewq1938

I love you three.

More options

lsume

Well-Known Member

More options

Citizen of the Kingdom

Well-Known Member

More options

RDKirk

Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner

More options

Citizen of the Kingdom

Well-Known Member

More options

Citizen of the Kingdom

Well-Known Member

More options

Citizen of the Kingdom

Well-Known Member

More options

BobRyan

Junior Member

More options

BobRyan

Junior Member

More options

Similar threads