Christ takes away the first (sacrifice and offering) in the midst of the 70th week

claninja said:

Does this "leader of the ONE WORLD GOvt" destroy the temple and the city?

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If the temple and city meant in Daniel 9 are not even meaning literal ones, then what? Aren't you basing all of your conclusions on the assumptions that a literal city and a literal temple are what is meant?

DavidPT said:

If the temple and city meant in Daniel 9 are not even meaning literal ones, then what? Aren't you basing all of your conclusions on the assumptions that a literal city and a literal temple are what is meant?

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Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
Dan 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.


Daniel Chapter 9: Dr. Kelly Varner



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BABerean2 said:

Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
Dan 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.


Daniel Chapter 9: Dr. Kelly Varner

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In verse 25 it is not in dispute a literal city is obviously meant. But that doesn't guarantee a literal city is meant in verse 26 as well. Maybe it is , maybe it isn't, thus debatable, unlike in verse 25 where it is not debatable. Why can cities and temples in the NT not be literal ones in certain contexts, but that this can't also be the case in the OT as well in certain contexts?

claninja said:

No, I'm basing my conclusion on scripture stating Christ took away the first (sacrifice and offering)
Hebrews 10:8-9 When he said above, “You have neither desired nor taken pleasure in sacrifices and offerings and burnt offerings and sin offerings” (these are offered according to the law), 9then he added, “Behold, I have come to do your will.” He does away with the first in order to establish the second.

And that Christ died as a propitiation for our sins, thus after Christ's sacrifice there was no longer an offering for sin.
Hebrews 2:17 For this reason he had to be made like them, k fully human in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people.
Hebrews 10:18 Where there is forgiveness of these, there is no longer any offering for sin.

Notice, this (1st being taken away and no longer any offering for sin) was written before the temple was destroyed, AND before the daily offering had ceased.

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Like I pointed out numerous times in the past though, all of Daniel 9:27 is fulfilled during the 70th week. Some of it can't possibly fit with Christ's death.

DavidPT said:

Some of it can't possibly fit with Christ's death.

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Which part?

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BABerean2 said:

Which part?

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Are you serious?

If the 70th week is 7 years total, in order to be fulfilled during the 70th week, that means these things have to be fulfilled within this 7 year window. IOW we can't claim some of it was fulfilled during the 70th week, and some of it wasn't, and then claim everything is fulfilled in this same 70th week. That would be ludicrous.

Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.


If this part is referring to Christ, thus is fulfilled during the 70th week----and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease---then explain how this part was also fulfilled during this same 7 year period----and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate?


In this same 7 years, the 70th week, all of the following have to be fulfilled from start to finish, which means none of it can be fulfilled outside of this 7 years.


And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week---that has to be fulfilled from start to finish during this 7 years, the 70th week


and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease---that has to be fulfilled from start to finish during this 7 years, the 70th week


and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate---that has to be fulfilled from start to finish during this 7 years, the 70th week

This last part undeniably proves Christ can't be meant anywhere in verse 27.

If you disagree though, show in verse 27 where it indicates some, but not all of the things listed, are fulfilled from start to finish during this 7 years, the 70th week. That would be like claiming some of the things listed in verse 25 are fulfilled from start to finish during the first 69 weeks, but not everything listed in that verse though. No one would do that with verse 25 and 26, in regards to the 69 weeks, so why would anyone do it in verse 27, in regards to everything listed there and the 70th week that is obviously in view in that verse?

Also keep in mind---even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate---that, too, must be entirely fulfilled once the 70th week has concluded.

claninja said:

It was taken away 2000 years ago, but it seems some have missed that.

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You and others here make out you know what God really wants. You think that God will never again require His people to make offerings and sacrifices, since Jesus did make the ultimate sacrifice for our sins.
But remember; God does not change, He did want His people to worship Him with offerings and to cover their sins with sacrifices. Prophecy plainly states that these things will again take place in a new Temple. Ezekiel 40 to 47, Isaiah 56:1-7, Jeremiah 33:17-18, + Note esp; in Ezekiel 45:13-25, where it is explained how these offerings are for expiation and purification.

There WILL be a new Temple and you are just denying scripture, when you say there can never again be offerings and sacrifices to God in it.

keras said:

The sacrifices and offerings continued until 70 AD, when the Temple was destroyed.
Your idea that Christ fulfills Daniel 9:27 and 2 Thessalonians 2:4 is quite impossible.

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So did circumcision but Christ abolished both on the cross. Where is the scriptural basis for the gap that turns Jesus into Antichrist in Daniel's 70 weeks???

claninja said:

The law was only a shadow
Hebrews 10:1 The Law is only a shadow of the good things to come, not the realities themselves. It can never, by the same sacrifices offered year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship

But still, before the New covenant, Israel was required to follow ALL of the law, and that included the sacrifices.
Deuteronomy 30:16 For I am commanding you today to love the LORD your God, to walk in His ways, and to keep His commandments, statutes, and ordinances, so that you may live and increase, and the LORD your God may bless you in the land you are entering to possess.



The sacrifice and offering in Daniel 9 have nothing to do with sacrifice and offering?

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You say jesus abolished the sacrifice.
Jesus said he came not to aboliah but to fulfill.

Jesus did not abolish the daily sacrifice.

DavidPT said:

Are you serious?

If the 70th week is 7 years total, in order to be fulfilled during the 70th week, that means these things have to be fulfilled within this 7 year window. IOW we can't claim some of it was fulfilled during the 70th week, and some of it wasn't, and then claim everything is fulfilled in this same 70th week. That would be ludicrous.

Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.


If this part is referring to Christ, thus is fulfilled during the 70th week----and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease---then explain how this part was also fulfilled during this same 7 year period----and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate?


In this same 7 years, the 70th week, all of the following have to be fulfilled from start to finish, which means none of it can be fulfilled outside of this 7 years.


And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week---that has to be fulfilled from start to finish during this 7 years, the 70th week


and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease---that has to be fulfilled from start to finish during this 7 years, the 70th week


and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate---that has to be fulfilled from start to finish during this 7 years, the 70th week

This last part undeniably proves Christ can't be meant anywhere in verse 27.

If you disagree though, show in verse 27 where it indicates some, but not all of the things listed, are fulfilled from start to finish during this 7 years, the 70th week. That would be like claiming some of the things listed in verse 25 are fulfilled from start to finish during the first 69 weeks, but not everything listed in that verse though. No one would do that with verse 25 and 26, in regards to the 69 weeks, so why would anyone do it in verse 27, in regards to everything listed there and the 70th week that is obviously in view in that verse?

Also keep in mind---even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate---that, too, must be entirely fulfilled once the 70th week has concluded.

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You are forcing your own man-made constraints on the words of the angel Gabriel.

Daniel was reading from the Book of Jeremiah when the angel Gabriel appeared.

The New Covenant had already been promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34.

No honest reading of Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and Hebrews 12:22-24, and 2 Corinthians 3:6-8 can deny that Christ fulfilled this New Covenant at Calvary.

Are we supposed to believe the angel Gabriel came to reveal the timeline of the Messiah who would fulfill the New Covenant and then the angel failed to even mention the New Covenant?

Daniel 9:24 is found fulfilled by Christ in Hebrews 10:16-18, and Acts of the Apostles 10:38.

Based on Matthew 10:5-7, and Romans 1:16, and Galatians 1:14-18 the Gospel was taken "first" to Daniel's people for about 7 years, before Paul took the Gospel to the Gentiles.
The fact that the New Covenant was confirmed with "the many" is found in Matthew 26:28.

Based on Hebrews 10:16-18, animal sacrifices did end in the eyes of God at Calvary.
Animal sacrifices after the sacrifice of God's Son were an "abomination".

Heb_10:6 IN BURNT OFFERINGS AND SACRIFICES FOR SIN YOU HAD NO PLEASURE.

Heb_10:8 Previously saying, "SACRIFICE AND OFFERING, BURNT OFFERINGS, AND OFFERINGS FOR SIN YOU DID NOT DESIRE, NOR HAD PLEASURE IN THEM" (which are offered according to the law),


What did Christ say about the word "desolation"?

Mat 23:38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

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The daily sacrifice spoken of in daniel 11:31 is performed on a daily basis in israel today.
And it shal continue untill tge host is given to the little horn.
Then it shallbe abolished.

Dave L said:

So did circumcision but Christ abolished both on the cross. Where is the scriptural basis for the gap that turns Jesus into Antichrist in Daniel's 70 weeks???

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What you and most don't seem to realize, is that we are in a transition period; the Church age, that was prophesied to last for 2000 years. Hosea 6:2, Luke 13:32
Christ did make the full Atonement for our sins, but we are still able to sin, so it is an ongoing process until Jesus Returns. Only then will the final fulfilment of His sacrifice apply.

I can and have posted a lot of Bible information about Daniels 70th 'week'. It still awaits fulfilment, as described in Revelation.
If you choose to not believe that, that is your prerogative, but please cease making wacky comments like the above.

claninja said:

Scripture says he did
Hebrews 10:8-10 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law; Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.



Correct, Jesus did state in matthew 5:18 that he came to fulfill not to abolish the law and prophets.



For those who believe there is no need for animal sacrifices. If there was a need, then there is no forgiveness of sins yet
Hebrews 10:18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.



This is news to me. Is there a still a temple there as well?

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Tye daily sacrifice of daniel 11:31 is not performed in a temple made with hands.
And it is written ,that sacrifice is taken aaay by a millitary whichwould also place the abominatiobthat causeth desolalation.

Is it your claim,that christ isthe milliary that places the abomination that causth desolation?

Daniel 11:31 KJV: And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.


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claninja said:

I disagree, the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple are not required be within the 70 weeks. The 6 points of Daniel 9:24 are fulfilled with Christ's ministry (3.5 years), his death and resurrection (ending the sacrifice and offering the midst of the week), and the coming of the holy spirit and the preaching the gospel to Israel (the woman nourished for 3.5 years).

Most beliefs insert a gap within daniel's 70 weeks. Dispensationalists seem to insert a 2000+year gap within the 70 weeks. Amils/preterist insert a 40 year gap after the 70 weeks but before the destruction of jerusalem.

Dispensationalists put the emphasis of Daniel's 70 weeks on the destruction of Jerusalem and the antichrist.

Amil/preterists put the emphasis of Daniel's 70 weeks on Christ and his atoning work.

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First of all I'm not a Dispensationalist. Nor am I Pretrib. Nor do I believe another brick and mortar temple gets built in the near future in order order to fulfill anything written in Daniel 9. Yet I still believe and conclude all of Daniel 9:27 is yet to be fulfilled.

Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

This is the 70th week, all of it is referring to it. Which part of the above verse has a thing to do with what happened in 70 AD? That verse says---And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week. Then it goes on to say of the person meant----and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease. That only accounts for half of the week though. What accounts for the remainder of the week then? How can it not be this----and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate?

claninja said:

Do you disagree that Christ's sacrifice for the forgiveness of sin ended the offering for sin?

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Of course I don't disagree with that, yet Daniel 9:27 is not in regards to that though.