Did Chalcedon anathematize Cyril?

TheLostCoin · Sep 25, 2018

Quote from Chalcedonian Definition:
"It is opposed to those who attempt to tear apart the mystery of the economy into a duality of sons; and it expels from the assembly of the priests those who dare to say that the divinity of the Only-begotten is passable, and it stands opposed to those who imagine a mixture or confusion between the two natures of Christ; and it expels those who have the mad idea that the servant-form he took from us is of a heavenly or some other kind of being; and it anathematizes those who concoct two natures of the Lord before the union but imagine a single one after the union."

Quote from Saint Cyril:
"After the union has occurred, however, we do not divide the natures from one another, nor do we sever the one and indivisible into two sons, but we say that there is One Son, and as the holy Fathers have stated: One Incarnate Nature of The Word."

Thoughts?

TheLostCoin · Sep 25, 2018

I somehow missed this part, and was studying specifically the "we proclaim" portion of the Chalcedonian Definition. However, considering this is a part of the definition, and it anathematizes anybody who says one nature after the union, does Cyril fall under this anathema?

My thoughts are that it is anathematizing only those who believe in Eutychianism, and not the Miaphysitist ideas of Cyril, and Cyril himself acknowledges there is more than one nature by saying "natures which we don't separate..."

But I fear this view may be colored by my own attempt to see if I'm misunderstanding something here, and trying to justify my own conclusions from studying Chalcedon, which I could be wrong with.

Virgil the Roman · Sep 25, 2018

He was not anathematised. Although, at times, some have tried to 'borrow' his verbiage to tend to their own heterodox ends. Yet, it doesn't bear out. He believed in the Blessed Trinity; The Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost, the Trinity one in essence and undivided. And that Christ was fully God and fully Man; neither commingled, confounded, confused, dissolved.

TheLostCoin · Sep 25, 2018

Virgil the Roman said:
He was not anathematised. Although, at times, some have tried to 'borrow' his verbiage to tend to their own heterodox ends. Yet, it doesn't bear out. He believed in the Blessed Trinity; The Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost, the Trinity one in essence and undivided. And that Christ was fully God and fully Man; neither commingled, confounded, confused, dissolved.

But was anybody who uses his verbiage anathematized, which means he was anathematized, unintentionally or intentionally?

Virgil the Roman · Sep 25, 2018

None of which I am aware. There are teachers and those students or apprentices who take what their master does and goes out and 'runs' with it, so to speak.

TheLostCoin · Sep 25, 2018

Virgil the Roman said:
None of which I am aware. There are teachers and those students or apprentices who take what their master does and goes out and 'runs' with it, so to speak.

Then why did Chalcedon anathematize anybody who uses one nature after the union, which is what Cyril used?

I still think that Cyril held to the idea that the two natures did exist after the Hypostatic Union, which is clear from his writings - and I think that this specific section of Chalcedon anathematizes those who believe there is no dynamic continuation of the two natures. However, as I've said, I'm worried of confirmation bias leading me to damnation and am wondering if I'm missing something sinister in this Council.

My eternal soul is a precious thing, and even though as of now I'm decided on Eastern Orthodoxy, because it makes more logical sense to me that the Chalcedonians are a continuation of the Church, the history and theology can be murky at times, and this is one of those times.

ArmyMatt · Sep 25, 2018

session II of the Extracts "As Cyril so believe we, all of us: eternal be the memory of Cyril: as the epistles of Cyril teach such is our mind, such has been our faith: such is our faith."

so, no. it did not anathematize St Cyril. St Cyril never insisted on the One Nature formula, and he himself used two natures. what Chalcedon anathematized is that humanity and Divinity fused into a single nature or that humanity was swallowed up in Divinity, and St Cyril taught neither of these.

St Cyril only used the One Nature formula against Nestorian extremism.

also, around Alexandria at the time, the word we translate in that phrase as nature (physis) was more flexible term and he probably used it to mean person, not the more hard term ousia if you look at the fact that he did use two natures in his writings.

and lastly, the 5th Ecumenical Council affirmed the One Nature of God the Word Incarnate as Orthodox and, when properly understood, one of our barriers against Nestorianism.

Phronema · Sep 25, 2018

I can't answer as fully as others on the why or how, but I'd point out that he's celebrated as a Saint in the Orthodox church, so I don't believe he was anathematized.

TheLostCoin · Sep 25, 2018

ArmyMatt said:
session II of the Extracts "As Cyril so believe we, all of us: eternal be the memory of Cyril: as the epistles of Cyril teach such is our mind, such has been our faith: such is our faith."

so, no. it did not anathematize St Cyril. St Cyril never insisted on the One Nature formula, and he himself used two natures. what Chalcedon anathematized is that humanity and Divinity fused into a single nature or that humanity was swallowed up in Divinity, and St Cyril taught neither of these.

St Cyril only used the One Nature formula against Nestorian extremism.

also, around Alexandria at the time, the word we translate in that phrase as nature (physis) was more flexible term and he probably used it to mean person, not the more hard term ousia if you look at the fact that he did use two natures in his writings.

and lastly, the 5th Ecumenical Council affirmed the One Nature of God the Word Incarnate as Orthodox and, when properly understood, one of our barriers against Nestorianism.

Thanks Father.

ArmyMatt · Sep 26, 2018

TheLostCoin said:
Thanks Father.

no problem

buzuxi02 · Oct 1, 2018

The council of Chalcedon received St. Cyril's letter of union to John of Antioch (written in 433) as a basis for the two nature christology. St. Cyril's christology was not as rigid as many think.
John of Antioch during his Episcopate had to keep at bay many who wanted to reject Ephesus and anathemize Cyril. After the reunion in 433 of the Sees of Antioch and Alexandria (they severed relations after Ephesus) many in Alexandria were not thrilled that Cyril accommodated the Antiochan point of view.
Pope Leo's Tome while using cringey language was primarily against Eutyches who took things to the extreme just as Cyril's strong language at Ephesus was against the opposing extremist view of Nestorios.

Anyhow getting back to the epistle of Cyril
To John of Antioch. Cyril acknowledges the two natures of Christ after the union and doesnt find anything wrong with the Antiochan exegesis. Here is the letter if your interested in studying it:
LETTER OF ST. CYRIL TO JOHN OF ANTIOCH

The two pertinent excerpts:

...'For One is the Lord Jesus Christ, even though the difference of the natures whence we say that the Ineffable Union was wrought, need not be ignored'...

...'And as to the Gospel and Apostolic words concerning the Lord, we know that Divines make some common, as to One Person, apportion others, as to two Natures, '

ArmyMatt · Oct 1, 2018

yes, the One Nature formula that the non-Chalcedonians insisted on so strongly, was never actually insisted upon by St Cyril. he only used it as a counter to Nestorius' extremism. plus, I am pretty sure it was never dogmatized at Ephesus.

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Did Chalcedon anathematize Cyril?

TheLostCoin

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Virgil the Roman

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TheLostCoin

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