Where is the clearest Biblical evidence distinguishing old vs. new covenant
- Thread starter godenver1
- Start date
Matthew 26:26-28 "And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body. And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it; For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins."
Hebrews 8:7 "For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. 8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: 9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: 11 and they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. 12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. 13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away."
Hebrews 9:15 "And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. "
Hebrews 8:7 "For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. 8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: 9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: 11 and they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. 12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. 13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away."
Hebrews 9:15 "And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. "
Upvote
0
- Dec 16, 2017
- 2,422
- 3,264
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Catholic
- Marital Status
- Celibate
The New Covenant began with Jesus' death on the cross, which He made present at the Last Supper when He said, “Take, eat; this is my body” and "Drink of it, all of you; for this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins."
Upvote
0
I think the New Covenant began officially at the moment of Christ's death, but it could have been after the ressurection I guess.
Christ had to have died to have lead a faultless life, which is the only way that His blood can atone for mankind's sin.
Christ had to have died to have lead a faultless life, which is the only way that His blood can atone for mankind's sin.
Upvote
0
Tree of Life
Hide The Pain
The New Covenant is not time specific. Even though it was inaugurated with the appearance of Christ (his birth? his life? his death? his resurrection? his ascension? the outpouring of the Spirit?), it is as "old as the hills", as they say.
The New Covenant is the relationship we have with God through Christ. Every true believer from any period in history is regenerated by the Holy Spirit and their sins are forgiven through Christ even if they lived before Christ took on flesh.
So it is called the New Covenant, but it is really the oldest covenant of all.
Upvote
0
- Nov 5, 2011
- 44,418
- 6,797
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Single
- Politics
- US-Republican
No, it's a new covenant built upon better promises than the old one.
The Old Covenant was nailed to the cross with Christ, both fulfilling what their purposes had been and both were transformed into something new and glorious, somewhat similar to their former selves but far better, more glorious. It is written the New Covenant is made of better promises and that is true.
Hebrews 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
The new covenant was a better one and established on better promises.
Hebrews 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
The first covenant had faults. If it would have had no faults then a second one would never have been created.
Hebrews 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Hebrews 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
A new covenant not according to the original.That proves the new covenant is not simply the old one "renewed" and "refreshed".
Hebrews 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Hebrews 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
Hebrews 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
Hebrews 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
The first covenant was made "old" and decayed from "death" which is what happens to something which is old and has been replaced.
2Co 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
The new Testament is the same as the new Covenant.
2Co 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
That's the ten commandments.
2Co 3:8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
2Co 3:9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
2Co 3:10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
2Co 3:11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.
2Co 3:12 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
Plainly spoken indeed but will the message be accepted?
2Co 3:13 And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
The vail causes those of Israel to be unable to see the end of that which was abolished, the first covenant.
Upvote
0
Tree of Life
Hide The Pain
There are New Covenant people in the Old Testament. Abraham was a New Covenant believer, having the Holy Spirit and being justified by faith in Christ, even though he didn't know it.
Upvote
0
- Nov 5, 2011
- 44,418
- 6,797
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Single
- Politics
- US-Republican
That is not a thing.
The new covenant did not exist until Christ died so there is no such thing as an old covenant/testament people being new covenant people. I have no doubt Abraham has accepted the new covenant and will be a part of those who will resurrect but that is not the same as saying he was a new covenant believer during old covenant times.
Upvote
0
Dan the deacon
Well-Known Member
- Jul 10, 2018
- 823
- 386
- 65
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
Upvote
0
- Nov 5, 2011
- 44,418
- 6,797
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Single
- Politics
- US-Republican
I have no doubt about the things I just said. It is nonsensical to ask me if I am incorrect about what I just said I believe in.
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
Then how is it at all possible that God preached the gospel unto Abraham? Because God did in fact preach the gospel to Abraham.
Upvote
0
- Nov 5, 2011
- 44,418
- 6,797
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Single
- Politics
- US-Republican
You are contradicting yourself so I'm going to let you continue discussing this topic with yourself.
Upvote
0
I'm not contradicting myself; I'm contradicting you. God preached the gospel unto Abraham, proving he was in fact a New Testament believer, and proving you wrong (Galatians 3:8).
Upvote
0
Thanks for the replies. I have been reading them. I ask because, having been in dialogue with an SDA, I'm trying to really show where the Bible makes it clear that old covenant laws (including Ten Commandments as specifically written in Exdous) no longer apply to New Testament Christians, hence no Saturday Sabbath.
Upvote
0
That is true. It is more correct to say that Abraham was justified by his faith as was Moses, per the New Testament.
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
- Nov 5, 2011
- 44,418
- 6,797
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Single
- Politics
- US-Republican
You said he was a new covenant believer which isn't possible because the new covenant did not exist until Jesus died. Hearing "good news" does not change that.
Upvote
0
I think that this is the most powerful in my mind.
New High Priest (Jesus), New Law (New Covenant)
Hebrews 7
1 This Melchizedek was king of Salem and priest of God Most High. He met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings and blessed him, 2and Abraham apportioned to him a tenth of everything. First, his name means “king of righteousness.” Then also, “king of Salem” means “king of peace.” 3 Without father or mother or genealogy, without beginning of days or end of life, like the Son of God, he remains a priest for all time.
4 Consider how great Melchizedek was: Even the patriarch Abraham gave him a tenth of the spoils. 5Now the Law commands the sons of Levi who become priests to collect a tenth from the people (that is, their brothers), even though they are descended from Abraham. 6 But Melchizedek, who did not trace his descent from Levi, collected a tenth from Abraham and blessed him who had the promises. 7 And indisputably, the lesser is blessed by the greater.
8 In the case of the Levites, mortal men collect the tenth; but in the case of Melchizedek, it is affirmed that he lives on. 9 And so to speak, Levi, who collects the tenth, paid the tenth through Abraham. 10 For when Melchizedek met Abraham, Levi was still in the loin of his ancestor.
A Superior Priesthood
11 Now if perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood (upon which basis the people received the Law), why was there still need for another priest to appear—one in the order of Melchizedek and not in the order of Aaron? 12 For when the priesthood is changed, the Law must be changed as well.
13 He of whom these things are said belonged to a different tribe, from which no one has ever served at the altar. 14 For it is clear that our Lord descended from Judah, a tribe as to which Moses said nothing about priests.
15 And this point is even more clear if another priest like Melchizedek appears, 16 one who has become a priest not by a law of succession, but by the power of an indestructible life. 17 For it is testified:
“You are a priest forever
in the order of Melchizedek.”a
18 So the former commandment is set aside because it was weak and useless 19 (for the Law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God.
20 And none of this happened without an oath. For others became priests without an oath, 21but Jesus became a priest with an oath by the One who said to Him:
“The Lord has sworn and will not change His mind:
‘You are a priest forever.’”b
22 Because of this oath, Jesus has become the guarantee of a better covenant.
23Now there have been many other priests, since death prevented them from continuing in office. 24 But because Jesus lives forever, He has a permanent priesthood. 25 Therefore He is able to save completelyc those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to intercede for them.
26 Such a high priest truly befits us—One who is holy, innocent, undefiled, set apart from sinners, and exalted above the heavens. 27 Unlike the other high priests, He does not need to offer daily sacrifices, first for His own sins and then for the sins of the people; He sacrificed for sin once for all when He offered up Himself. 28For the Law appoints as high priests men who are weak; but the oath, which came after the Law, appointed the Son, who has been made perfect forever.
Upvote
0
Romans 4 New King James Version (NKJV)
Abraham Justified by Faith
1 What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.
David Celebrates the Same Truth
5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:
7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered;
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin.”
Abraham Justified Before Circumcision
9 Does this blessedness then come upon the circumcised only, or upon the uncircumcised also? For we say that faith was accounted to Abraham for righteousness. 10 How then was it accounted? While he was circumcised, or uncircumcised? Not while circumcised, but while uncircumcised. 11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while still uncircumcised, that he might be the father of all those who believe, though they are uncircumcised, that righteousness might be imputed to them also, 12 and the father of circumcision to those who not only are of the circumcision, but who also walk in the steps of the faith which our father Abraham had while still uncircumcised.
The Promise Granted Through Faith
13 For the promise that he would be the heir of the world was not to Abraham or to his seed through the law, but through the righteousness of faith. 14 For if those who are of the law are heirs, faith is made void and the promise made of no effect, 15 because the law brings about wrath; for where there is no law there is no transgression.
16 Therefore it is of faith that it might be according to grace, so that the promise might be sure to all the seed, not only to those who are of the law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all 17 (as it is written, “I have made you a father of many nations”) in the presence of Him whom he believed—God, who gives life to the dead and calls those things which do not exist as though they did; 18 who, contrary to hope, in hope believed, so that he became the father of many nations, according to what was spoken, “So shall your descendants be.” 19 And not being weak in faith, he did not consider his own body, already dead (since he was about a hundred years old), and the deadness of Sarah’s womb. 20 He did not waver at the promise of God through unbelief, but was strengthened in faith, giving glory to God, 21 and being fully convinced that what He had promised He was also able to perform. 22 And therefore “it was accounted to him for righteousness.”
23 Now it was not written for his sake alone that it was imputed to him, 24 but also for us. It shall be imputed to us who believe in Him who raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead, 25 who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was raised because of our justification.
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
msortwell
Senior Member
- Mar 9, 2004
- 1,245
- 147
- 64
- Faith
- Calvinist
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Constitution
The attached file shows a high level overview of CT (at least from one perspective). It works better as a series of 9 Power Point presentation. But hopefully this will provide some insights. The most important understanding it tries to bring forth is that the the Old Covenant can generally be understood as the Mosaic Covenant, and that the Abrahamic Covenant lasts into and through the MC and is fulfilled in Christ - relying upon the understanding gained from Gal 3.
Last edited:
Upvote
0
Similar threads
