IS IT SIN TO BREAK THE 10 COMMANDMENTS? (Yep!)

LoveGodsWord · Sep 22, 2018

Saint Steven said:
Disappointed come judgment day? Not me.

John 5:24
“Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

Then again it is only those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD that have eternal life. Those who continue in known unrepentance sin do not know him or have they seen him...

1 JOHN 2:3-4.
[3], And by this we know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
[4], He that says, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

LoveGodsWord · Sep 22, 2018

Saint Steven said:
Disappointed come judgment day? Not me.

Steve it was a general statement. Why do you feel it was applied to you?

Saint Steven · Sep 22, 2018

LoveGodsWord said:
Then again it is only those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD that have eternal life. Those who continue in known unrepentance sin do not know him or have they seen him...

1 JOHN 2:3-4.
[3], And by this we know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
[4], He that says, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Are you claiming that I don't "BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD" ???!!!!

LoveGodsWord · Sep 22, 2018

Saint Steven said:
Are you claiming that I don't "BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD" ???!!!!

Steve, why do you keep saying things no one has said to you. Only God and you know if you follow his WORD or not. Do you feel you do not follow God's WORD? That is between you and God.

Saint Steven · Sep 22, 2018

LoveGodsWord said:
Steve it was a general statement. Why do you feel it was applied to you?

I didn't. I was confirming that it did not.
You said many. Who did you mean?

Saint Steven · Sep 22, 2018

LoveGodsWord said:
Steve, why do you keep saying things no one has said to you. Only God and you know if you follow his WORD or not. Do you feel you do not follow God's WORD? That is between you and God.

I was quoting you. Why do you deny all the horrible things that you are saying to us? Just because you didn't use my name doesn't mean you weren't aiming it at me.

daydreamer40 · Sep 22, 2018

LoveGodsWord said:
Hello daydreamer40,

Why are you making things up that no one is saying here?

I said some believe, when Paul writes of not being justified by obeying the law, this means not being under the condemnation of the law. But they also believe you are not condemned by the law as long as you don't break the law. I have read that stated before. So why do you accuse me of making it up?

LoveGodsWord · Sep 23, 2018

Saint Steven said:
I didn't. I was confirming that it did not.
You said many. Who did you mean?

MATTHEW 7:13-23
[13], Enter in at the narrow gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leads to destruction, and many there be who go in there:
[14], Because narrow is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leads unto life, and few there be that find it.
[15], Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
[16], You shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
[17], Even so every good tree brings forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree brings forth evil fruit.
[18], A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
[19], Every tree that brings not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
[20], Therefore by their fruits you shall know them.
[21], Not every one that says unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
[22], Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in your name? and in your name have cast out demons? and in your name done many wonderful works?
[23], And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity.

Hope this helps

LoveGodsWord · Sep 23, 2018

Saint Steven said:
I was quoting you. Why do you deny all the horrible things that you are saying to us? Just because you didn't use my name doesn't mean you weren't aiming it at me.

Steve I was only quoting God's WORD generally. Seems you took it personally. If you hear God's WORD speaking to you than these are God's WORD's not mine.

daydreamer40 · Sep 23, 2018

LoveGodsWord said:
Hi Neogaia777, trying to catch up a little thanks for your post.

Yes the letter of the law shows us we have broken it and leads is to Christ that we might be FORGIVEN by faith in God's WORD. The letter represents the schoolmaster that shows us we are all sinners *ROMANS 3:19-20; ROMANS 7; GALATIANS 3:22-25. It teaches us that we are all sick with sin and in need of a physician *MATTHEW 9:11-13. Many did not know the meaning when Jesus spoke this to the Pharisees and in the last days we are told many more will not know the meaning as they will have a form of Godliness but deny God's power to save them from their sins *2 TIMOTHY 3:1-12.

The letter of the law shows us we are all sick and brings us to Christ the true physician so we can cry out Lord save me because we relize there is nothing we can do to save ourselves and stop sinning. Here we behold what manner of LOVE God bestowed upon us in sending his own Son to die the death we deserve to die so that we can be FORGIVEN and brought back to God.

FAITH is the victory that overcomes the world to all those who are born again to LOVE and walk in God's SPIRIT *1 JOHN 5:4; GALATIANS 5:16; ROMANS 3:31.

Thanks for sharing brother Neo

Can we consider for a moment what would be the result of perfectly obeying the letter of the law through love, and therefore never committing sin?

We would, at all times love others, cesaselessly, we could not afford to deviate from this at all, even where our enemies are concerned, those who may be unkind to us in anyway. We would never have to regret anything would we, for we are fully complying with the law. We would never have to say sorry to anyone for offending them in anyway. And we would never have to come before God and ask his forgiveness for anything, for we would be perfectly following his laws through love and would therefore have nothing to seek forgiveness for. Am I misunderstanding you, or do you believe that is how true born again Christians live their lives?

daydreamer40 · Sep 23, 2018

LoveGodsWord said:
It is only those who break God's LAW who are UNDER THE LAW as they are condemned by it.

I understand. Christians are not justified by obeying the law. But if they break the law they lose their righteousness-or justification before God and are condemned by it.

Saint Steven · Sep 23, 2018

LoveGodsWord said:
Steve I was only quoting God's WORD generally. Seems you took it very personal. If you hear God's WORD speaking to you than these are God's WORD's not mine.

That's not true. Only? "... only quoting God's WORD". ???
I was responding to your personal commentary. Here's the quote below. Is this ONLY "God's WORD"?

"Then again it is only those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD that have eternal life. Those who continue in known unrepentance sin do not know him or have they seen him..." - LGW

daydreamer40 · Sep 23, 2018

Saint Steven said:
That's not true. Only? "... only quoting God's WORD". ???
I was responding to your personal commentary. Here's the quote below. Is this ONLY "God's WORD"?

"Then again it is only those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD that have eternal life. Those who continue in known unrepentance sin do not know him or have they seen him..." - LGW

In my experience, those who are most afflicted with committing unknown sin, are those who stress full obedience of the letter of the law. Which I imagine is helpful for them

Saint Steven · Sep 23, 2018

daydreamer40 said:
In my experience, those who are most afflicted with committing unknown sin, are those who stress full obedience of the letter of the law. Which I imagine is helpful for them

That's interesting. How do you define "unknown sin", and how would you know? Came out later?

daydreamer40 · Sep 23, 2018

Saint Steven said:
That's interesting. How do you define "unknown sin", and how would you know? Came out later?

I would think unknown sin would be committing sin and having no conviction you sinned by doing so. The problem as I see it is this. If the law God desires you to follow is written in your mind and placed on your heart, how can you sin in ignorance of it?

Saint Steven · Sep 23, 2018

daydreamer40 said:
I would think unknown sin would be committing sin and having no conviction you sinned by doing so. The problem as I see it is this. If the law God desires you to follow is written in your mind and placed on your heart, how can you sin in ignorance of it?

Right. I think we are sinning regularly without even realizing it. When convicted by our human conscience (God's law on our heart), or God's prompting, we can face it. A transgression then would be knowing sin.

The thing I puzzle about is the difference between our human conscience (given at the Fall, I believe) and God's law written on our hearts as part of the new covenant relationship. I suppose the conscience is expanded to include Christ's law for the believer. What are your thoughts on that? (I suppose we will hear from the thread originator as well) Here is the scripture that originally pointed me in this direction. Note the parenthetical statement in verses 14-15.

Romans 2:13-15
For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.)

daydreamer40 · Sep 23, 2018

Saint Steven said:
Right. I think we are sinning regularly without even realizing it. When convicted by our human conscience (God's law on our heart), or God's prompting, we can face it. A transgression then would be knowing sin.

The thing I puzzle about is the difference between our human conscience (given at the Fall, I believe) and God's law written on our hearts as part of the new covenant relationship. I suppose the conscience is expanded to include Christ's law for the believer. What are your thoughts on that? (I suppose we will hear from the thread originator as well) Here is the scripture that originally pointed me in this direction. Note the parenthetical statement in verses 14-15.

Romans 2:13-15
For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.)

I agree we could sin, in respect of failing to perfectly love for example, without being struck down with a severe conscious by doing so. But I do not believe we could sin in ignorance of taking God's name in vain for example, or committing adultery, or going to a séance to attempt to speak to the dead.
For myself, before I got saved I had a conscience at wrong doing, and much of that would have come from my parents instruction as to right living. But I didn't have a conscience(not burning anyway) at so many things that came once I did get saved. I was aware I did not love others as I should. I said things that previously would not have concerned me so much but now did. The difference was, as a saved person I was trying to live a perfect life, fearing hell if I did not succeed. I knew nothing of grace then. Yes, the conscience expanded to include the law now placed within me(or Christ's law) is a good way of putting it, which for me, was every single imperfection I had. It was a tough time. The following is interesting:
All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous

When we read of numerous other statements of Paul's do we glean that righteousness hinges on obeying the law? I cannot believe that. But if you choose to live under the law(Paul states believers do not) you must obey the law to be righteous(fully obey it) Paul says no one can be righteous by obeying the law(rom3:20)
Or is Paul saying, Christians do not ignore the law in their hearts but follow it(though obviously not perfectly). What do you think?

LoveGodsWord · Sep 23, 2018

LoveGodsWord said: ↑
Hi Neogaia777, trying to catch up a little thanks for your post.

Yes the letter of the law shows us we have broken it and leads is to Christ that we might be FORGIVEN by faith in God's WORD. The letter represents the schoolmaster that shows us we are all sinners *ROMANS 3:19-20; ROMANS 7; GALATIANS 3:22-25. It teaches us that we are all sick with sin and in need of a physician *MATTHEW 9:11-13. Many did not know the meaning when Jesus spoke this to the Pharisees and in the last days we are told many more will not know the meaning as they will have a form of Godliness but deny God's power to save them from their sins *2 TIMOTHY 3:1-12.

The letter of the law shows us we are all sick and brings us to Christ the true physician so we can cry out Lord save me because we relize there is nothing we can do to save ourselves and stop sinning. Here we behold what manner of LOVE God bestowed upon us in sending his own Son to die the death we deserve to die so that we can be FORGIVEN and brought back to God.

FAITH is the victory that overcomes the world to all those who are born again to LOVE and walk in God's SPIRIT *1 JOHN 5:4; GALATIANS 5:16; ROMANS 3:31.

Thanks for sharing brother Neo

daydreamer40 said:
Can we consider for a moment what would be the result of perfectly obeying the letter of the law through love, and therefore never committing sin?

We would, at all times love others, cesaselessly, we could not afford to deviate from this at all, even where our enemies are concerned, those who may be unkind to us in anyway. We would never have to regret anything would we, for we are fully complying with the law. We would never have to say sorry to anyone for offending them in anyway. And we would never have to come before God and ask his forgiveness for anything, for we would be perfectly following his laws through love and would therefore have nothing to seek forgiveness for. Am I misunderstanding you, or do you believe that is how true born again Christians live their lives?

Hello daydreamer40, thanks for your post.

Consider what you are replying to and the scriptures in them. Where does it say in the post you are responding to that it is talking about obeying the letter of the law perfectly to become perfect?

This idea makes no consideration for growing in Grace and in the Knowledge of God's truth. God's Word teaches that when we first become Christians we are babes and need to grow in the knowledge of God's WORD in order to follow it by faith *1 PETER 2:2' 1 CORINTHIANS 3:1-2; MATTHEW 11:25; 2 PETER 3:18. Others call this process Sanctification which is the work of a lifetime. Something you thought may not be sin today as you grow in the KNOWLEDGE of God's WORD may be sin for you tommorrow as it is revealed to you through God's WORD and conviction by his Spirit.

There is no such thing that someone is instantly perfect although by faith as long as we are living up to all the knowledge of God's WORD that God has revealed to us we are perfect in God's eyes and are believers and followers of God's WORD.

The letter of the law is but the very beggining. Its purpose is to show us that without Christ we can do nothing but with him all things as we have faith in God's WORD. We are all sinners in need of a Saviour, yet the good news is that we have a Saviour to save us from our sins the more and more God reveals them to us day by day. As God reveals these things to us he expects us to take up our cross and follow him. Faith in God's WORD is how we receved him and it is be faith in God's WORD that we are to walk. This is what it means to walk in the Spirit. It is only by walking in the Spirit that we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh.

The Good news of the gospel is that we have a Saviour that wants to save us from our sins not in sin. Those who continue in KNOWN UNREPENTANT sin will not enter God's KINGDOM because they have rejected the gift of God's dear son *HEBREWS 10:26-27; ROMANS 6:23.

Thanks for sharing. Hope this is helpful.

Will have to catch up latter guys late my time. Good discussion will chat more latter :wave:

daydreamer40 · Sep 23, 2018

LoveGodsWord said:
Hello daydreamer40, thanks for your post.

Consider what you are replying to and the scriptures in them. Where does it say in the post you are responding to that it is talking about obeying the letter of the law perfectly to become perfect?

This idea makes no consideration for growing in Grace and in the Knowledge of God's truth. God's Word teaches that when we first become Christians we are babes and need to grow in the knowledge of God's WORD in order to follow it by faith *1 PETER 2:2' 1 CORINTHIANS 3:1-2; MATTHEW 11:25; 2 PETER 3:18. Others call this process Sanctification which is the work of a lifetime. Something you thought may not be sin today as you grow in the KNOWLEDGE of God's WORD may be sin for you tommorrow.

There is no such thing that someone is instantly perfect although by faith as long as we are living up to all the knowledge of God's WORD that Gods has revealed to us we are perfect in God's eyes and are believers and followers of God's WORD.

The letter of the law is but the very beggining. Its purpose is to show us that without Christ we can do nothing but with him all things as we have faith in God's WORD. We are all sinners in need of a Saviour, yet the good news is that we have a Saviour to save us from our sins the more and more God reveals them to us day by day. As God reveals these things to us he expects us to take up our cross and follow him. Faith in God's WORD is how we receved him and it is be faith in God's WORD that we are to walk. This is what it means to walk in the Spirit. It is only by walking in the Spirit that we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh.

The Good news of the gospel is that we have a Saviour that wants to save us from our sins not in sin. Those who continue in KNOWN UNREPENTANT sin will not enter God's KINGDOM because they have rejected the gift of God's dear son *HEBREWS 10:26-27; ROMANS 6:23.

Thanks for sharing. Hope this is helpful.

Will have to catch up latter guys late my time. Good discussion will chat more latter

Forgive me, but you wrote:

''Yes the letter of the law shows us we have broken it and leads is to Christ that we might be FORGIVEN by faith in God's WORD. The letter represents the schoolmaster that shows us we are all sinners''

If Christians do not therefore fully obey the letter of the law(through love) they are still sinners during their Christian walk aren't they? For as you wrote. The letter of the law shows us we are sinners.

LoveGodsWord · Sep 23, 2018

daydreamer40 said:
Forgive me, but you wrote:

''Yes the letter of the law shows us we have broken it and leads is to Christ that we might be FORGIVEN by faith in God's WORD. The letter represents the schoolmaster that shows us we are all sinners''

If Christians do not therefore fully obey the letter of the law(through love) they are still sinners during their Christian walk aren't they? For as you wrote. The letter of the law shows us we are sinners.

The letter of the law represents a knowledge of God's law that reveals sin *ROMANS 3:20. The letter of the law is not the Spirit of the law which is written on the heart to love. Without faith and God's WORD we are always sinners in need of a Saviour that is why we need salvation or saving from sin because it is in our very nature to sin *ROMANS 7. The Spirit of the law is written in the heart by faith to LOVE and LOVE is the fulfilling of God's LAW in all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD. *HEBREWS 8:10-12; ROMANS 8:1-4; GALATIANS 5:16; ROMANS 13:8-10; ROMANS 3:31.

IS IT SIN TO BREAK THE 10 COMMANDMENTS? (Yep!)

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