Why the sea-Beast/Antichrist/w/e can't literally be Jewish

iamlamad said:

This I have got to see: how "a conglomerate of world religions, ..., and the civil governments from around the world can walk into a new Jewish temple and declare that "He" is God!

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This deal looks done to me lamad. He took his seat in 2015. The composite beast is here. The Antichrist is here. I know that the dragon is here too because i can hear the composite beast open it's mouth to blaspheme God and His dwelling place and those who live in Heaven. AND it's the dragon that empowers this thing by giving IT his power and his throne and his great authority. Do you think this would be easier to explain if i called IT the conglomerate beast?

It also looks like you're getting the composite beast mixed up with the beast that rises from the earth. The composite beast is a conglomerate, heads and horns and animal parts. It's not the beast that takes it's seat. The beast that takes it's seat is the beast that rises from the bottomless pit and goes to his destruction.

So he will seat himself in the temple of God.

Paul seemed to be drawing from the OT in many places, and some think Daniel 8 and Isaiah 14 and even Matthew 23 or wherever Jesus' words written there came from.

See, there's also a Temple in Heaven. Moses had a seat in the earthly temple, which was a copy and a shadow of the real one in Heaven. But that didn't matter at that time because Moses had the job of relaying God's directives to the children of Israel. Remember all the times God told Moses: "Speak to the children of Israel?



This is just a sample of what should be a much bigger list. Then after saying these things to Moses, Moses would turn around and take his seat in the Temple of God and tell the people what God wanted them to do.

I'm sure Paul could explain the details of this with greater accuracy and eloquence than i. But this should paint the picture of a possibility that Paul might have been drawing from certain other areas of scripture.


He will "seat himself".

In Matthew 23, Jesus said:


They have "seated themselves".

In the chair of Moses.

Moses was the teacher of the Law, the Word of God. He was long gone when Jesus said this so the Scribes and the Pharisees had really just taken over Moses' job or his "seat", which was Moses' place of authority in the Temple of God. The scribes and the pharisees didn't take a literal seat. They had taken over Moses' job, his seat of authority, of dictating what God wanted the camp to do..

Our end time Antichrist, Paul's "man" of sin, who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, has attempted to take over God's job by influencing the shift in morality and the trend in increased lawlessness. "Anti" can also mean "in place of".

God said: "Remember the Sabbath", "You shall not murder", "You shall not commit adultery" and "You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination".

Composite Beast says: You can forget about the Sabbath, legalize inappropriate contentography, legalize abortion, legalize same sex marriage and feel free to have a gender modification.

When the "man" of sin seeks to change these specific times and these particular Laws by giving his power to the composite beast, he by default, has magnified himself above all that is called God or is worshiped and has set himself up in God's "seat" of authority in God's Temple thereby claiming to BE God. Lucifer has accomplished this now by giving his power and his throne and his great authority to the composite beast, saying unheard of things to the God of gods.

"Worship" comes from the word "proskuneo" and can also mean to "submit to" or "to obey". And he has been at work on this as part of the falling away for a long time using various human agents but make no mistake it has been the dragon's hand inside the glove.

I don't think there's any time to build a temple. There's been too many signs pointing to a time right now that have occurred that are not replaceable in time. They will never happen again. Kingdom against kingdom. WW1, WW2 and 1948 + 70. Seven sets of 70 weeks since the Exodus in 1437 BC that ended in 1994 with Comet Shoemaker Levy 9, Suleiman's 1535 decree lining up 62 weeks latter with the Knesset decree in 1969 + 49, the third moon of our tetrad picking up 21 years after Jupiter was hit 21 times in 1994. The Revelation 12 sign confirms the tetrads by pointing to a conjunction of Jupiter and Venus which marks out the last 420 days of the 1260 until the "darkened" sun.

But it's the Abomination standing where it ought not to be exactly 1290 days before a "darkened" sun and a moon that will not give her light that makes me so sure. That one's pretty hard to fake, even for a dragon empowered composite beast.

So, sorry for the long note. But i can console you by letting you know that it could have been longer. I skipped the Isaiah 14 and the Daniel 8 part of the he "takes his seat" theory.

At Your Service.
iamDaDave.

Peaceful Rest of the Sabbath

Ripheus27 said:

If you tell us who (you think) the Antichrist (or whoever) is, without us first "reasoning" it out, we'll pick holes in your claim almost as quickly as you posted it in the first place. You need us to "reason it out" because that will convince us that you're right (not for your sake, but your theory's sake, to be sure). I understand the reason(!) for this method of argument, I guess, but I also know it won't work, in the end.

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I once watched a video on You Tube by a SDA commentator speaking before an audience, where he did some dirty garbage whereby he said he would have the audience say who the antichrist was themselves - asking presumptuous question after presumptuous question, for their response, steering them in the direction he wanted, to get them to draw that conclusion that the papacy was the Antichrist - thinking they were doing so from the bible. It is a low class way of manipulating people. And I don't like it.

Ripheus27 said:

If you tell us who (you think) the Antichrist (or whoever) is, without us first "reasoning" it out, we'll pick holes in your claim almost as quickly as you posted it in the first place. You need us to "reason it out" because that will convince us that you're right (not for your sake, but your theory's sake, to be sure). I understand the reason(!) for this method of argument, I guess, but I also know it won't work, in the end.

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It's really simple. He's just the devil. Revelation 13 has two phases. In the first part of the chapter, the dragon works behind the scenes. He's here, but he can't be revealed. In order to come out of the closet, he has to give his power and throne and authority to the composite beast. This creates or triggers the signs that he is given the power to do on behalf of the composite beast.

The "signs" are the catalyst for him to be revealed. "Because of the signs. He can only perform the signs in the presence of the composite beast. When fire falls from the sky in the presence of men Lucifer will appear as the end time "man" of sin, "Is this the "man" who shook the earth and made kingdoms tremble. God's going to let the devil out from the abyss for the last few days of the end of the world.

Paul is drawing from Isaiah 14 and Daniel 8.


Rebellion comes first,
-------> then the "man" of sin is revealed.


Transgressors reach their limit,
-------> the bold faced king shall arise.

I know DaDats Spooky.

Dave.

Dave Watchman said:

I don't think there's any time to build a temple.

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Not enough time for a final form temple I would agee. But what is needed - for the core - to be able to restart the animal sacrifices and observances is a 15 ft x 30 ft sanctuary comprised of two chambers and a brazen altar outside.

2300 days before the temple is cleansed of the transgression of desolation and abomination of desolation - another way of saying having them removed - is that the animal sacrifices begin again.

So 2300 days (Daniel 8:13-14) before day 2520, the day Jesus returns at the end of the 70th week - would be day 220 on the 7 year timeline, about 7 months into the 7 years. Enough time to build two core structures - the sanctuary and the brazen altar.

Ripheus27 said:

I don't think that sin is being legalized/approved of/w/e more in our day than at any other time in history. More people are sinning because there are more people, but Chapter 1: The Evolution of Childhood | The Association for Psychohistory is a good account of a massive amount of evil that has apparently been decreasing in extent over the last few centuries (even if there are more or less obvious resurgences going on). Also, there hasn't been a several-million-people-dead genocide program of late, I believe. Compassion for animals is increasingly widespread (although I will admit the invention and continuation of factory farming testifies against almost everything I have just argued).

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If you are the age in your login name, 27 years, then i know it wouldn't look like a biggie. People are used to Bruce Jenner standing in front of an audience full of applause.

Caitlyn Jenner's Moving Speech at the ESPY Awards | Nightline | ABC News - YouTube

But there's a peculiar specification that's difficult to quantify. I think it has been called the full cup principal. God is patient, but He has a limit that can be reached. Back in the days of Noah it was met. And also in the days of Lot.

God was telling Abraham about all the land that he and his descendants would be given. But they would need to wait 400 years because the sins of the Amorites had not yet reached a preset limit.

Here is what i think might be a snapshot of our limit and of the composite beast in action:

1) The Netherlands (2000)
2) Belgium (2003)
3) canada (2005)
4) Spain (2005)
5) South Africa (2006)
6) Norway (2009)
7) Sweden (2009)
8) Argentina (2010)
9) Iceland (2010)
10) Portugal (2010)
11) Denmark (2012)
12) Brazil (2013)
13) England and Wales (2013)
14) France (2013)
15) New Zealand (2013)
16) Uruguay (2013)
17) Luxembourg (2014)
18) Scotland (2014)
19) Finland: (signed 2015, effective 2017)
20) Ireland: (2015)
21) United States: (2015)<-------1290------->Sun/Moon.

DS/AoD<-------1290Days------->EoW.

DS/AoD<-------1290Days------->Sun/Moon.

EoW = End of these Wonders.

Rebellion comes first,
-------> then the "man" of sin is revealed.

Transgressors reach their limit,
-------> the bold faced king shall arise.

Douggg said:

Not enough time for a final form temple I would agee. But what is needed - for the core - to be able to restart the animal sacrifices and observances is a 15 ft x 30 ft sanctuary comprised of two chambers and a brazen altar outside.

2300 days before the temple is cleansed of the transgression of desolation and abomination of desolation - another way of saying having them removed - is that the animal sacrifices begin again.

So 2300 days (Daniel 8:13-14) before day 2520, the day Jesus returns at the end of the 70th week - would be day 220 on the 7 year timeline, about 7 months into the 7 years. Enough time to build two core structures - the sanctuary and the brazen altar.

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Like i'm sorry Doug but i think the days were years and had their beginning with the 70 weeks in 457BC.

I think we're so close that there's not enough time to put up a tent style tabernacle. I think the appointed time of the end has started, but it's like a tribulation of the matrix. Not everything is like it seems, not everything is like Hal Lindsey said it was going to be. People are walking around oblivious, they have no idea of what might be going on or how close we are to the end.

But we shall soon see.

The good thing is, if i'm right, we don't have to worry about a seven year tribulation.

You gotta look at the bright side,
Lift up your heads for redemption draweth nigh.

Dave Watchman said:

Here is where i think you've come the closest. I would substitute Transhumanism with something like paganism and then go find the other four. Five were here and proven false in 95AD when John spoke to the angel in Revelation. Now we have ALL seven heads of this thing. Every person on earth can find a connection with one of the seven heads, no exceptions. "Come out of her my people.

The term "five have fallen" doesn't mean they're dead or out of business, it just means they've been proven false by Jesus' first Visitation. It's like the phrase "fallen woman", she's not dead, just "fallen" from grace. It pays to be aware of those pictures of the "fallen" religious belief systems because they make up a part OF the composite beast. Like the phrase "Babylon is fallen", Babylon will still be in operation at that time, but the announcement is a warning that it is false or corrupt, "come out of her my people.

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When John spoke with the angel in AD95 the five religious belief systems that had been proven false by Jesus' first Visitation were:

1) Atheism.

2) Paganism.

3) Eastern Mysticism.

4) Judaism.

5) Islam.

The early christian church was forming and would become known as the one hat was:

6) Catholicism.

The one that had not yet come in AD95 got started in around 1517. It's still here today for a short while:

7) Protestantism.

When the 8th king is revealed he will complete the picture.

He once was visible.

Now is not visible.

And will soon become visible again and go to his destruction.

Invalidusername said:

If someone wants to put something on your head or wrist permanently and says you gotta do it or you can't buy stuff from Wal-Mart, politely decline and crisis averted.

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It is not a physical mark.
In your forehead is your beliefs
In your hand is what you do about those beliefs.

It is all about worship.
Matthew 15:9
But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Dave Watchman said:

"This calls for a mind with wisdom: the seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman is seated; they are also seven kings, five of whom have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come, and when he does come he must remain only a little while.​

When John spoke with the angel in AD95 the five religious belief systems that had been proven false by Jesus' first Visitation were:

1) Atheism.

2) Paganism.

3) Eastern Mysticism.

4) Judaism.

5) Islam.

The early christian church was forming and would become known as the one hat was:

6) Catholicism.

The one that had not yet come in AD95 got started in around 1517. It's still here today for a short while:

7) Protestantism.

When the 8th king is revealed he will complete the picture.

He once was visible.

Now is not visible.

And will soon become visible again and go to his destruction.

"And the dwellers on earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world will marvel to see the beast, because it was and is not and is to come.​

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Dave give this a look
REV 17:7-11 The beast has “seven heads and ten horns.” The seven heads are said to be “seven mountains on which the woman sitteth” (vs. 9) and “seven kings” (vs.10). These heads are the same as the ones on the dragon of Revelation 12 and the beast of Revelation 13. They represent the great world empires which Satan uses to persecute God’s people. Five of these powers which have been noted in the books of Daniel and Revelation are Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, Pagan Rome and Papal Rome. At the end of time, the power of Papal Rome is greater than ever, her deadly wound is healed and she again strongly persecutes God’s people as in former years. The revived Roman Catholic Church unites with apostate Protestants and spiritists to form a religious-political entity that is supported by the governments of the world.

The historic center of Rome was built on seven hills and has been known since ancient times as the “City of Seven Hills.” The phrase “seven mountains on which the woman sitteth” also serves to link the “woman” with the city of Rome establishing her once again as the Roman Catholic Church.

Are not PROTESTaNTS reach out to the RCC?
Revelation 17 Commentary

Ripheus27 said:

If you tell us who (you think) the Antichrist (or whoever) is, without us first "reasoning" it out, we'll pick holes in your claim almost as quickly as you posted it in the first place. You need us to "reason it out" because that will convince us that you're right (not for your sake, but your theory's sake, to be sure). I understand the reason(!) for this method of argument, I guess, but I also know it won't work, in the end.

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How many times do I have to tell the Forum posters the Rev. 13:18 "calculation" methodology?!?
OK, for the umpteenth time:


I have no clue why so many have such difficulty with something so simple.

Thanks,
DaDad

Douggg said:

You explain it how YOU arrived at the conclusion that there are ~25 years between the 70th week and the Antichrist arriving on the world scene. I was not part of the process that YOU arrived at that conclusion. Explain your rationale from the text of the bible.

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Because you obviously don't want the long answer, here's the short answer: I compared Scripture with History.

Thanks,
DaDad

Original Happy Camper said:

... are
1. Gold, Babylon -- 1 of 5 has fallen
2. Silver, Medo-Persia -- 2 of 5 has fallen
3. Bronze,Greece -- 3 of 5 has fallen
4. Iron, Pagan Rome -- 4 of 5 has fallen ...

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-- Clay, "divided"
-- 5. Lion/Eagle, U.K./U.S .-- 5 of 5 has fallen from preeminence
-- 6. Bear, Russia -- "is" when it attacks Israel
-- 7. Leopard (actually a Tiger), China -- "shall remain a little while"
-- 8. "Dreadful", United Nations -- "was and is not", has NO populous, NO army, NO geography, etc.
9. Great Stone, Millennial Kingdom
10. New Jerusalem, Eternity in Heaven

-- A little massaging, but a better start than the rest of the nonsense people post!

Thanks,
DaDad

Original Happy Camper said:

Dave give this a look
REV 17:7-11 The beast has “seven heads and ten horns.” The seven heads are said to be “seven mountains on which the woman sitteth” (vs. 9) and “seven kings” (vs.10). These heads are the same as the ones on the dragon of Revelation 12 and the beast of Revelation 13. They represent the great world empires which Satan uses to persecute God’s people. Five of these powers which have been noted in the books of Daniel and Revelation are Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, Pagan Rome and Papal Rome.

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What you're saying is a great idea OHC, but. The seven heads on the Revelation 13 composite beast are end time. They're not the same as the ancient kingdoms on Daniel's metal man from chapter 2. The seven end time heads are all alive right now. Fallen just means that they've been proven false. You of all people should know that the "head" wounded by the sword was the church in Rome in 1798. So the other 6 heads must be something of the same kind.

And john was seeing the composite beast at a time when the ten horns were not fully formed. The ten horns are the civil governments, the seven heads are the religious authority. Having "blasphemous" names written on them should be a great hint that they have something to do with religion. So if the heads are church, the horns are state.

Original Happy Camper said:

At the end of time, the power of Papal Rome is greater than ever, her deadly wound is healed and she again strongly persecutes God’s people as in former years. The revived Roman Catholic Church unites with apostate Protestants and spiritists to form a religious-political entity that is supported by the governments of the world.

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I mostly agree with you. It's just that the Pope is not the Antichrist. The Catholic church is just one of the "heads" on the composite beast, the one that was wounded by the sword and yet lives.

Original Happy Camper said:

The historic center of Rome was built on seven hills and has been known since ancient times as the “City of Seven Hills.” The phrase “seven mountains on which the woman sitteth” also serves to link the “woman” with the city of Rome establishing her once again as the Roman Catholic Church.

Are not PROTESTaNTS reach out to the RCC?
Revelation 17 Commentary

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I think i figured out how to start a video at a specific point so that when these links are clicked on they should play a specific part of a longer video.

This should play as a 10 minute snip. It's a more thorough explanation than i can do on a forum note of the seven mountains, seven heads:


And this is the first ten minutes of the next segment to explain the detail of the seven religious belief systems:


I recommend this guy, he's a genius. He's an ex SDA, so you might like him.

DaDad said:

Ohhhhhhhh, yeahhhhhhh. Pretty funny. -- You haven't got a clue, and apparently you also have a lion's mouth: "he will talk big talk".

I'm stupefied. I have the solution to the attributes, but what you said is so funny, I've got to just let it soak in and enjoy the humor of it all. -- --

Thanks,
DaDad

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I am happy to offer you such levity! But after you quit rofl, please enlighten the rest of us! Perhaps for once you will surprise me.

Dave Watchman said:

What you're saying is a great idea OHC, but. The seven heads on the Revelation 13 composite beast are end time. They're not the same as the ancient kingdoms on Daniel's metal man from chapter 2.

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Say what you wish, -- Daniel says otherwise.

Specifically, the Empire of Clay is called the "Divided KINGDOM", and verse 45 confirms FIVE Empires: Iron, Bronze, Clay, Silver, Gold = 4,3,5,2,1 = FIVE.

And of course, where my first grade teacher insisted that FIVE ≠ FOUR, we must accept that the Chapter 7 FOUR beasts represent the THREE Concurrent Superpowers, and a FOURTH one-world-government.

Dave Watchman said:

... the "head" wounded by the sword was the church in Rome in 1798.

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NO!!! The head which is "mortally wounded" is Russia, when it attacks Israel, and China marches to correct the situation. And then the U.N. will "heal" Russia so that it remains a Nation.

Dave Watchman said:

... The ten horns are the civil governments, the seven heads are the religious authority.

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Isn't it a strange coincidence that the U.N. Security Council has 5 + 5 members?


Or, people can guess ...

Thanks,
DaDad

iamlamad said:

I am happy to offer you such levity! But after you quit rofl, please enlighten the rest of us! Perhaps for once you will surprise me.

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It's not "once". I've provided the attribute association multiple times. But here we go again:

The Lion/Eagle, U.K./U.S. has proficiency in Trade, Finance, Science, and Technology, -- thus the "Mouth"; the Leopard (actually a Tiger), China is the most populous nation in the world, -- thus the "Body"; and the Bear, Russia has the greatest land mass of any nation in the world (~3M U.S., ~3M Canada, ~3M China, versus ~8M Russia), thus the "Feet".

I just can't figure out why something so obvious and so simple is so "complex".

Thanks,
DaDad

DaDad said:

-- Clay, "divided"
-- 5. Lion/Eagle, U.K./U.S .-- 5 of 5 has fallen from preeminence
-- 6. Bear, Russia -- "is" when it attacks Israel
-- 7. Leopard (actually a Tiger), China -- "shall remain a little while"
-- 8. "Dreadful", United Nations -- "was and is not", has NO populous, NO army, NO geography, etc.
9. Great Stone, Millennial Kingdom
10. New Jerusalem, Eternity in Heaven

-- A little massaging, but a better start than the rest of the nonsense people post!

Thanks,
DaDad

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just as I thought! More nonsense! Really, DaDad, is this what you came up with? Now I am ROFL!
The Lion was to refer back to Nebuchanezzar. He had TOTAL control in Babylon. He did not have advisors, and He did not share any kind of leadership: HIS word was law. The gold was to represent that totally of leadship in one man. His emblem was the Lion. In Chapter 7, Daniel saw a lion.

Next on the image was Medo-Persia. (notice two arms). Here control was divided, so God chose silver. Persia was noted for fielding MASSIVE numbers of troops, hence the strength of the bear. Next was bronze - and Alexander. He was noted for the SPEED in which He conquered and his cunning. In Daniel 7, he was pictured as a leopard with four wings, representing the incredible speed with which he conquered. A leopard is also very cunning. Ask the hunters and they will tell you, they really hate going after a man eating leopard.

There are other nations EAST of Israel: did you count up the "stan" countries? I can assure you, there is more hate against Israel there than all of China.

The Revelation beast seems to be a conglomerate of all of these, but primarily a leopard beast. He is going to rule over the same land areas as the above empires. He will control Babylon or Iraq, Persia or Iran, The Greecian areas North such as Syria and Turkey, and Egypt to the south. He is going to be as cunning as Alexander. He is going to conquer faster yet than Alexander. He is going to field many many troops, as did Persia. He is going to be unstoppable according to the world.

Five have fallen: Many think Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-persia and Greece. They disappeared and ROME took over. Rome was in John's day. The Beast of Revelation is going to control all these land areas.

DaDad said:

Say what you wish, -- Daniel says otherwise.

Specifically, the Empire of Clay is called the "Divided KINGDOM", and verse 45 confirms FIVE Empires: Iron, Bronze, Clay, Silver, Gold = 4,3,5,2,1 = FIVE.

And of course, where my first grade teacher insisted that FIVE ≠ FOUR, we must accept that the Chapter 7 FOUR beasts represent the THREE Concurrent Superpowers, and a FOURTH one-world-government.


NO!!! The head which is "mortally wounded" is Russia, when it attacks Israel, and China marches to correct the situation. And then the U.N. will "heal" Russia so that it remains a Nation.


Isn't it a strange coincidence that the U.N. Security Council has 5 + 5 members?

Permanent Membership on the Security Council

1. U.S.
2. U.K.
3. France
4. Russia
5. China​

NOMINATED for Permanent Membership on the Security Council *

6. Germany – economic power
7. Japan – economic power
8. Brazil – regional representative for S. America
9. Nigeria – regional representative for Africa
10. India – regional representative for the Near East​

* “The Road To Reform: Towards A New Clarity,” U.N. Chronicle, UMI, Vol. 30, Issue 4, December 1993, pp. 45-46​

Or, people can guess ...

Thanks,
DaDad

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What strange ideas you have! You cannot find Russia in Daniel 2, or in Daniel 7. Yet both of these are have end times overtones.
A MUCH BETTER fit for the wounded head? It is Iraq, which used to be Babylon. It was recently overcome, and the king put to death. Now it does not "fit" with Muslim Brotherhood nations. But I believe one day soon this deadly wound will be healed and Iraq will again be a strong Muslim nation.

You guys are killing me.

I can't tell if you're being serious.

It's like some kind of eschatological slap stick.