THE COVENANTS AND THE 10 COMMANDMENTS ARE YOU CONFUSED?

FatalHeart · Sep 19, 2018

LoveGodsWord said:
Hello FH, your post is confusing. You say you do not support my position on the 10 commandment then continue the rest of your post by supporting my position on the 10 commandments. What is it you do not support?

I do not think they are a part of the new covenant. I think as written they have been set aside. That isn't to say that God still doesn't expect them to be followed in a similar way in the new covenant, but I think the entire law changed with Jesus and that that law is shown for what it is in the entirety of the Epistles and Gospels and that the old testament laws teach us who God is and what He still expects, but not in the sense that they are given in the Old Testament. I don't think God is going to whip out the ten commandments when He judges us all at the end of the age. I think it will be brought forth just exactly what He has given each person and that that conviction will be consistent with every person of who they were supposed to be, react, and what choices they should have made, what nature they were supposed to follow. Although you can find consistency in some of those laws with the new nature of things, I don't feel they fully exemplify the life we are supposed to live in Christ.

LoveGodsWord · Sep 19, 2018

Hi FatalHeart, thanks for your thoughts. Some comments for your consideration below.

FatalHeart said:
I do not think they are a part of the new covenant. I think as written they have been set aside.

Where does it say in God's WORD that the 10 commandments have been set aside? Did you read the OP? Why would Jesus, PAUL and the APOSTLES teach that they are not set aside? SCRIPTURE SUPPORT HERE CLICK ME HERE.

FatalHeart said:
That isn't to say that God still doesn't expect them to be followed in a similar way in the new covenant,

Isn't that a contradiction? You stated that God's 10 Commandments are done away in the NEW COVENANT. Then you state here that is not to say God still expects us to follow them in a similar way in the new covenant.

FatalHeart said:
but I think the entire law changed with Jesus and that that law is shown for what it is in the entirety of the Epistles and Gospels and that the old testament laws teach us who God is and what He still expects, but not in the sense that they are given in the Old Testament.

Forgive me here brother I find this section a little difficult to follow. How has God's 10 commandments changed in the NEW COVENANT. Do they still not point out what sin is if broken *ROMANS 7:7? Are they still not the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTOUESNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; PSALMS 119:172; MATTHEW 5:17-19? Are they not to be written on our hearts through faith that works by LOVE *HEBREWS 8:10-12; ROMANS 13:8-10?

FatalHeart said:
I don't think God is going to whip out the ten commandments when He judges us all at the end of the age. I think it will be brought forth just exactly what He has given each person and that that conviction will be consistent with every person of who they were supposed to be, react, and what choices they should have made, what nature they were supposed to follow. Although you can find consistency in some of those laws with the new nature of things, I don't feel they fully exemplify the life we are supposed to live in Christ.

If SIN is breaking any of the 10 Commandments *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; JAMES 2:9-11, and none who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN will not enter into God's KINGDOM, why do you think it is not a big deal? We will indeed be judged if we are professing Christ and breaking his Commandments.

JAMES 2:8-12
[8], If you fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, You shall love your neighbor as yourself, you do well:[9], But if you have respect to persons, you commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. [10], For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. [11], For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if you commit no adultery, yet if you kill, you are become a transgressor of the law. [12], So speak you, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

ROMANS 2:12-13
[12], For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
[13], For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

Only sent in love as a help brother. Jesus shows the full application of the 10 commandments applied to the heart in MATTHEW 5 to the very thoughts and motives of the heart.

The purpose of God's law is not to make anyone righteous but to show us we have no righteousness and the wages of sin is death so that we can accept the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23; to lead us to the cross that we might be forgiven by faith alone *GALATIANS 3:22-25; 5:16; ROMANS 8:1-4.

We need to be BORN of God to walk as he walked and to live as he lived *GALATIANS 5:16; 1 JOHN 3:3-10.

May God help you as you seek him through his Word.

bekkilyn · Sep 20, 2018

LoveGodsWord said:
EXODUS 24:7 [7], And he took the BOOK OF THE COVENANT, and read in the audience of the people: and they said, All that the LORD has said will we do, and be obedient.

"And they were utterly astounded, for they did not understand about the loaves, but their hearts were hardened." (Mark 6:51b-52)

LoveGodsWord · Sep 20, 2018

bekkilyn said:
"And they were utterly astounded, for they did not understand about the loaves, but their hearts were hardened." (Mark 6:51b-52)

MATTHEW 13:14-15
[14], And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which said, By hearing you shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing you shall see, and shall not perceive:
[15], For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Saint Steven · Sep 20, 2018

Said of the Apostle Paul.

Acts 18:13
“This man,” they charged, “is persuading the people to worship God in ways contrary to the law.”

drich0150 · Sep 20, 2018

LoveGodsWord said:
1 TIMOTHY 1:9 is supporting what I am saying brother. If you are breaking any of God's ten Commandments you stand guilty before God of breaking them. Let me ask you are simple question that may help. If someone is living a life of KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN are they in a saved state before GOD or an UNSAVED state before God * HEBREWS 10:26-27?

there is no saved or unsaved in this life. we are not saved here. we are 'saved' from judgement in the next life. if you look at everytime the word "saved" is used in the Nt it speaks to a upcoming event unless Christ himself is speaking to someone, meaning Christ (as with the thief on the cross) made a judgement before the thief died. everyone else gets judged for their sin or 'saved' from them in the next life.

So once Saved (in the next life) a person can never loose said salvation. however in this life we choose to follow christ or we do not. If we follow Christ and walk the path of atonement means our sins are forgiven, not that we will never sin again. Here in this life Sin is just apart of life according to Paul in Romans chapters 6,7 and 8. He goes on to explain That we are two distinct beings enclosed in one body. the old sinful self (Spirit) and the new man in christ. (soul) While the old person must sin/slave to sin until death, the new man is free to turn from sin. Meaning not that the new man will not be apart of sin, but the new man can not make way for, or excuse sin, but at the same time is not judge for sin the old man who was born as a slave to sin (which dies when this body dies) and the new man goes on to the resurrection and salvation from judgement free to live a sinless life, because of what Christ did on the cross.

Once we have been born again/living as the new man, means we have turned from sin, Which is the definition of repenting. so rather than enjoy or make excuse of our sins we turn from them and learn to hate and seperate the new born again person in Christ, from our old sinful self. If we sin/when we sin during this process we do not have to confess as if we are catholics confessing to a priest for every little thing. (there is no way for us to keep track of everything) If we struggle, yes we are to confess our sins one to another for accountability and help but we are not being made to confess everything we do wrong. again not possible.

Our want to separate our selves from sin is in fact repentance from sin and so long as we maintain this separation we are in a perpetual state of grace. as we are in a perpetual state of having turn 180* from sin!

It is when we embrace or make excuse of our sin do we need then repent, because the old man who is a slave to sin is taken back over and we both soul and spirit have embraced sin. again repentance is not confession. repentance is an internal 180* turn from sin so rather than embracing sin you turn and hate it, even if your spirit/old man is a slave to it and you sin every day of the rest of your life. So long as you turn/repent you need not beg for forgiveness for every little thing. remember it's not about us or what we do EG Forgiveness ritual or ceremony that makes us worthy or righteous before God. it is a gift of Grace given to those in whom God loves.

Which is why the whole verse and the context of 1tim 1 makes more sense when I say it supports me.

Look at what paul says before and after your cherry picked verse.
5 Love is the purpose of my command. Love comes from a pure heart. It comes from a good sense of what is right and wrong. It comes from faith that is honest and true. 6 Some have turned from these teachings. They would rather talk about things that have no meaning. 7 They want to be teachers of the law. And they are very sure about that law. But they don’t know what they are talking about.

8 We know that the law is good if it is used properly. 9 We also know that the law isn’t made for godly people. It is made for those who break the law. It is for those who refuse to obey. It is for ungodly and sinful people. It is for those who aren’t holy and who don’t believe. It is for those who kill their fathers or mothers. It is for murderers. 10 It is for those who commit sexual sins. It is for those who commit homosexual acts. It is for people who buy and sell slaves. It is for liars. It is for people who tell lies in court. It is for those who are a witness to things that aren’t true. And it is for anything else that is the opposite of true teaching. 11 True teaching agrees with the good news about the glory of the blessed God. He trusted me with that good news.

Did you see it? lets walk through together:

Paul starts in verse 5 stating love (as I am describing) is the purpose of his writing tim, and love is what determines right and wrong but some... have turned from those teachings (about love determining right and wrong) They/you want to be teachers of the law (instead of teaching the love aspect Paul and I are teaching) because you know the law and are very sure of the law. But you/they don't know what you are talking about.

verse 8 the law is good if used properly, but we also know the law is not made for godly people/ the people who follow christ and are in a perpetual state of grace because they are in repentance of sin. Rather the law is made for those who refuse to obey, it is for ungodly people/ people who are not in a state of grace/people who have not and do not repent. The law is only there to judge people like this and he goes on to give examples of people who embrace sin.

Can you see what happens when you take a legit verse out of context, verse how it can mean the exact opposite when you put it back together with everything else's said in the same breath?

Everything you said or rather everything you think 1 tim1:9 says... the opposite is true and we know the opposite is true because from verse 5-9 it supports everything I said from the law being obsolete to Love defining what is right and wrong. Paul even goes on to speak about people who do not teach the love as we teach but teach the law as being wrong for doing so..

What more in a exegesis could one want if one sought/seeks the truth?

Do you notice you have to give a sermon and then tag on a bible verse (cut from it context) to give what you say legitimacy? Do you see How I use whole blocks of text to do the talking for me?

Now if you argue my point to whom is your argument really directed? If I argue your point to whom is my argument directed?

Again I used 6 verses and simply explained what was literally on page, no crazy go here take this verse go there take that one do a hokie pokie and paste them together to get something new. I simply clarified what was on page and matched up what I said with what was already written.

Verses taking one single solitary verse out of it's original context isolate it and then build a narrative to describe all the thing this solitary verse could mean.
without a doubt if you only read 9 and then maybe conditioned to think 9 said what you claimed you could be made to think 10-13 also supports you. but the proble lies with everything before chapter 9. it contradict your idea of the law and who the law is meant for.

drich0150 · Sep 20, 2018

LoveGodsWord said:
Now drich0150, if your going to make claims here like some others have tried but when confronted have not been able to prove their claims then this is simply slander. You are making claims here that the scriptures shared here are scrap book theology that has been taken out of context discarding the original meaning and intent. It is your duty as a christian to prove your claims not promote slander.
As a brother in Christ do you not have a duty of LOVE to prove your claims? Or are they false allegations? If you cannot prove your claims then why make things up? Please show me anything I have posted that is out of CONTEXT and not according to God's WORD? If you cannot brother then maybe you should think about what it is you actually believe. Only God's WORD is true and we should beleive and follow it over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God. Those who KNOWINGLY BREAK GOD's Commandments will not enter into God's KINGCOM come judgment day *HEBREWS 10:26-27. I think you have made those claims above because you have no scripture to prove your belief. Am I wrong? Please show prove your claims that you have made above? If you cannot then why say them?
My guide is God's WORD alone seeking Jesus through his WORD and claiming his promise to be my teacher *JOHN 14:26; 16:13; 7:17; 8:31-34. All your doing now is stating your words over God's WORD. If you make allegations prove it with God's WORD. If you cannot you are only following others who speak there own words over God's WORD. Those who reject God's WORD will be judged by it come judgment day *JOHN 12:47-48.
Now your making a strawmen argument that no one is even talking to you about. Salvation is from SIN not in sin *JOHN 8:31-36. If you break any of God's Commandments you commit sin *JAMES 2:9-11; 1 JOHN 3:4. It is not God's will for us to sin. If we do however we have an advocate *1 JOHN 2:1. Those who continue in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN do not KNOW God and need to be born again *JOHN 3:3-8; 1 JOHN 2:3-4; 1 JOHN 3:3-10.

Yet here you are full of allegations but not scriptures. Or can you show anything that has been taken out of context and does not represent the Bible? Please stop making things up brother drich0150, if you have a problem with something someone has said than address the post in detail and prove your claim with scriptures. If you cannot than it only shows you have no scripture and are only stating your own words over Gods because you have turned your attention to attacking the message because you cannot attack the message and the scriptures provided to you.

Here you quote MATTHEW 5 which says...

MATTHEW 5:43-48
[43],You have heard that it has been said, You shall love your neighbor, and hate your enemy.
[44], But I say to you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which spitefully use you, and persecute you;
[45], That you may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he makes his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.
[46], For if you love them which love you, what reward have you? do not even the publicans the same?
[47], And if you salute your brothers only, what do you more than others? do not even the publicans so?
[48], Be you therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Brother drich0150, I want to show you this only to help you nothing more. THIS section of your post is a good example of you taking scripture out of CONTEXT. Here you highlight MATTHEW 5:43-48 and use LEVITICUS 19:18 to try and show that God's Word taught in the OLD COVENANT that God's people were to hate there enemies. Let's look at the scripture in provide from LEVITICUS 19:18 and add the context you leave out and see what it actually says...

LEVITICUS 19:17-18 [17], YOU SHALL NOT HATE YOUR BROTHER IN YOUR HEART: you shall in any wise rebuke your neighbor, and not suffer sin on him. [18], You shall not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the LORD.

NO WHERE in the OLD TESTAMENT scriptures has it ever taught to HATE your enemies. You have heard that it has been said is in reference to the teachings of men over the WORD of GOD. Disagree? Please show me a scripture from the OLD COVENANT that says God's people are to hate their enemies? You have taken the scriptures out of CONTEXT. The very thing you are accusing others of doing but are not able to prove your claims with God's WORD.

The two great commandments of LOVE are summing up God's 10 commandments and when Jesus speaks them in MATTHEW 22:36-40 he is quoting from DEUTERONOMY 6:5 and LEVITICUS 19:18 and finishes by saying "ON THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS [Love to God and Love to mankind] HANG ALL THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS *MATTHEW 22:40. LOVE is the fulfilling; DOING and ESTABLISHING God's LAW in all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD and is the NEW COVENANT promise to God's people *ROMANS 13:8-10; ROMANS 3:31; HEBREWS 8:10-12.

Sent in LOVE and only as a help brother. Please read the scriptures in context. If you make allegations than prove your claims. Anything else is only slander.

Wow how self righteous are you?

Who asked you to insert yourself into this conversation?

Are you web site police?

Or is it because everyone is at odds with you and the way you chop up the bible to suit your needs? or maybe you are such a martyr you just assume anything negative I had to say would automatically be about you? why not check and see who I quoted before you bull rush in.. If I am quoting stuff you did not say... then helloo.. Mcfly, maybe I am not quoting you!

How about an apology for the accusation of slander directed at you when I clearly quoted another member, or at the very least exercise some web-itcate and ask or make an introduction if two people are having a conversation and you want in. don't accuse me of slander when I am clearly quoting someone else.
Page 2 post #37 fatal heart is who I was speaking to not you..

drich0150 · Sep 20, 2018

LoveGodsWord said:
Hello FH, your post is confusing. You say you do not support my position on the 10 commandment then continue the rest of your post by supporting my position on the 10 commandments. What is it you do not support?

are you mentally challenged or do not understand how the quoting system works?
Look at the grey quote box, now look in the upper left hand corner it gives the name of the person being quoted... If your name is not in the box NO ONE IS SPEAKING TO YOU!

We are allowed to do that.. you understand that right?!?!? speak to people in this thread other than you!

That is the purpose of quoting text so the person knows who is being addressed, and if a quote is chopped up the preceding text speaks to that specific point.

With over 4000 posts one would think you should know this by now.. are you having a stroke or something? seriously? how many times have you made this mistake?

drich0150 · Sep 20, 2018

FatalHeart said:
I actually don't support his position on the ten commandments. But God does give us a chance to participate in the divine nature, and the divine nature does live perfectly. God is perfect. He is not a hypocrite. He follows His own rules and will judge the world by those rules. Jesus didn't come to rebuild what he destroyed. He came to eliminate sin -the devil's work. Unless, of course, you don't believe that sin is from Satan. But maybe you misunderstand my context as to the whole book and not just an individual one, the wider perspective of the entire theme taken from each individual book, as the message spans over each testimony: the entirety of what God is saying. Although you believe I have been taught by a teacher, I assure you, God has and does and will continue to show me these things and work powerfully behind my words as confirmation, like He always has, because I do take pains to follow Him. If you do have a problem with my words, I'll pray for you, and we'll see how God touches you. However, I do not think that we disagree. You are appropriately fighting against a type self righteousness that assumes much about itself without actually knowing the scriptures and teaches others to over exacerbate themselves trying to achieve something that isn't even God's will in the first place, and that is commendable. But my words have nothing to do with that type of arrogance and the Spirit will show you, and when God comes back, we'll talk about it if you still have problems with what I said.

Look your, words my words, the OP's words, makes no difference to me. I look for truth and error. you were in error like it or not. this is more of a fact checking thing than anything else. I hate it when people put the wrong meaning on a bible verse So You can put all the holy stuff away, I not here for a pound of flesh, I am not going to try and humiliate you in any way. you don't have to hide behind faith in order to keep me at bay I am not looking hurt anyone, but at the same time I am a seeker of truth so since you did not address the actual discrepancy I want to make sure we are on the same page. so me rehashing all of this is to make sure all you prayers for me and all the holy spirit touching will be directed in the right place and I am not called to testify like Brett Kavanaugh and Dr. Christine Blasey Ford. 100 years into eternity future.

You said to be perfect as the father in heaven is perfect refers to God's inability to sin. Granted God does not sin. Not saying that. However this is not the part of perfection Jesus was referencing In Mat 5 the sermon on the mount. in context Jesus gave several examples of how His call to the Father's perfection was to be manifest. the sub heading in my bible says it all be here is the complete passage:
Love Your Enemies
43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor. (Leviticus 19:18) Hate your enemy.’ 44 But here is what I tell you. Love your enemies. Pray for those who hurt you. 45 Then you will be children of your Father who is in heaven. He causes his sun to shine on evil people and good people. He sends rain on those who do right and those who don’t. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Even the tax collectors do that. 47 If you greet only your own people, what more are you doing than others? Even people who are ungodly do that. 48 So be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.

Do you see the perfection Jesus closes the sermon on the mount with? do you see the contrast in your quote? You quoted verse 48 or rather gave a mini-sermon on living sin free, then cut verse 48 from mat 5 and pasted it to your mini sermon to reinforce what your mini sermon said about perfection/living sin free.

Again. in the context in which Jesus Christ gave the sermon on the mount the perfection we are to ascribe to is found in forgiveness, Again I acknowledge God does not sin and in this way can be considered perfect as well, but not the type of perfection Jesus is speaking of. To christ Our obtainable level of perfection can be obtain in the way the Father forgives us which is why He said what he said rather than have us to even attempt to live a sin free life.

So prayers and sending mission trips to my house aside to turn from the dark side, do you see what I was saying and the difference in the perfection you represented and that Jesus actually spoke of?

FatalHeart · Sep 20, 2018

drich0150 said:
Look your, words my words, the OP's words, makes no difference to me. I look for truth and error. you were in error like it or not. this is more of a fact checking thing than anything else. I hate it when people put the wrong meaning on a bible verse So You can put all the holy stuff away, I not here for a pound of flesh, I am not going to try and humiliate you in any way. you don't have to hide behind faith in order to keep me at bay I am not looking hurt anyone, but at the same time I am a seeker of truth so since you did not address the actual discrepancy I want to make sure we are on the same page. so me rehashing all of this is to make sure all you prayers for me and all the holy spirit touching will be directed in the right place and I am not called to testify like Brett Kavanaugh and Dr. Christine Blasey Ford. 100 years into eternity future.

You said to be perfect as the father in heaven is perfect refers to God's inability to sin. Granted God does not sin. Not saying that. However this is not the part of perfection Jesus was referencing In Mat 5 the sermon on the mount. in context Jesus gave several examples of how His call to the Father's perfection was to be manifest. the sub heading in my bible says it all be here is the complete passage:
Love Your Enemies
43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor. (Leviticus 19:18) Hate your enemy.’ 44 But here is what I tell you. Love your enemies. Pray for those who hurt you. 45 Then you will be children of your Father who is in heaven. He causes his sun to shine on evil people and good people. He sends rain on those who do right and those who don’t. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Even the tax collectors do that. 47 If you greet only your own people, what more are you doing than others? Even people who are ungodly do that. 48 So be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.

Do you see the perfection Jesus closes the sermon on the mount with? do you see the contrast in your quote? You quoted verse 48 or rather gave a mini-sermon on living sin free, then cut verse 48 from mat 5 and pasted it to your mini sermon to reinforce what your mini sermon said about perfection/living sin free.

Again. in the context in which Jesus Christ gave the sermon on the mount the perfection we are to ascribe to is found in forgiveness, Again I acknowledge God does not sin and in this way can be considered perfect as well, but not the type of perfection Jesus is speaking of. To christ Our obtainable level of perfection can be obtain in the way the Father forgives us which is why He said what he said rather than have us to even attempt to live a sin free life.

So prayers and sending mission trips to my house aside to turn from the dark side, do you see what I was saying and the difference in the perfection you represented and that Jesus actually spoke of?

I do see it and understand where your confusion lies. John says, "No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God," and also, "Let no one fool you, he who does what is right is righteous and he who does not do what is right is of the devil." Now, we can go all over the place if you prefer, but I am sure that eventually you are going to run into context after context of God teaching people not to sin, to repent, and to "sin no more." The particulars matter, true, but it is all the same and summed up well in many places. It all relates. Remember that Jesus is teaching people, so when he brings his sermon to a close with these words, do you really think it only applies to what he is very specifically saying at the moment? It is clear from context that he is exhorting people, and to narrow those words to mean, "This and this alone sums up perfection," misses everything else in the book. I have no doubt God meant it to inflect into that partly, as the whole scriptures relate, but for that reason also I would not stop his words from painting a bigger picture or meaning multiple things, as Greek quite literally can be read in multiple ways, a matter that could very well have been planned.

He tells the rich man, "If you want to be perfect..." If we are going to take literally these words in context, we'd have to equate love your enemies as giving away all your possessions. But it is clear in this that again, he is giving only a part of the picture, in context, relating to the story at hand. He cannot actually mean perfection, right? Because he is teaching this man the ten commandments. (See OP.) He is saying absolutely nothing about his blood spilled for this man. So it is a difference then in how it relates. But, if we get lost in an absolute literal definition of the context, we miss the possible inflections of his words, and everything he is trying to teach. We even jump to false conclusions. Do you understand now?

All of scriptures relate to each other. My problem is with people who call themselves Christians who define obedience to God as loving others without a scriptural basis for what that love looks like. They do this so they can live the life they want to (free from scripture and the Spirit's leading) and as long as they define themselves as a good person who loves people (love, of course, self defined) they believe they are doing the will of God and are going to heaven. This is not different than anyone else or any other religion in the world who all believe that if they are a good people or love people, that they know God and will go to heaven. But the Bible strictly says, "If anyone says, 'I know Him,' but does not do what He commands, they are a liar." The fact is that the Bible goes into long lengths as to what love actually looks like and teaches that only those who have the Holy Spirit, those who truly put their trust in what Jesus did on the cross for their sins, can love in the first place, and that all others are lost. James makes this case in exemplifying the difference between someone who say they believe in God (like the demons who go further and even shutter at their knowledge of Him) and those who actually have obey Him. Or, as God says earlier, "They honor me with words but their hearts are far from me." Or are we going to use context to say that that only applies to the Jews? Or perhaps only to the generation of that time that Jesus was speaking to. It depends how legalistic you want to be.

These same people teach others to sin. They preach no judgment. Some of them don't even believe in hell or that any will be lost. But all these things the Bible teaches against. They do this because they are self justified, filled with self love, pretenders (hypocrites) interpreting things as they wish. Others, like the OP, understand that obedience is something that is fulfilled only by those who know God, and exhort people, therefor, to obey Him, understanding that obedience can only come from real faith in God, but do not understand just what His law is. So they teach things that are detrimental and lead to false assumptions that end up harming people instead of teaching them in the way of the Spirit. They call people to things God never called them to. "They forget they have been cleansed from their past sins." The difference between the two is where you will find your middle ground where God is pleased.

"Having lost all sensitivity, they have given themselves over to sensuality so as to indulge in every kind of impurity, and they are full of greed. That, however, is not the way of life you learned when you heard about Christ and were taught in him in accordance with the truth that is in Jesus. You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires; to be made new in the attitude of your minds; and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness."

LoveGodsWord · Sep 20, 2018

drich0150 said:
there is no saved or unsaved in this life. we are not saved here. we are 'saved' from judgement in the next life. if you look at everytime the word "saved" is used in the Nt it speaks to a upcoming event unless Christ himself is speaking to someone, meaning Christ (as with the thief on the cross) made a judgement before the thief died. everyone else gets judged for their sin or 'saved' from them in the next life.
So once Saved (in the next life) a person can never loose said salvation. however in this life we choose to follow christ or we do not. If we follow Christ and walk the path of atonement means our sins are forgiven, not that we will never sin again. Here in this life Sin is just apart of life according to Paul in Romans chapters 6,7 and 8. He goes on to explain That we are two distinct beings enclosed in one body. the old sinful self (Spirit) and the new man in christ. (soul) While the old person must sin/slave to sin until death, the new man is free to turn from sin. Meaning not that the new man will not be apart of sin, but the new man can not make way for, or excuse sin, but at the same time is not judge for sin the old man who was born as a slave to sin (which dies when this body dies) and the new man goes on to the resurrection and salvation from judgement free to live a sinless life, because of what Christ did on the cross.

Once we have been born again/living as the new man, means we have turned from sin, Which is the definition of repenting. so rather than enjoy or make excuse of our sins we turn from them and learn to hate and seperate the new born again person in Christ, from our old sinful self. If we sin/when we sin during this process we do not have to confess as if we are catholics confessing to a priest for every little thing. (there is no way for us to keep track of everything) If we struggle, yes we are to confess our sins one to another for accountability and help but we are not being made to confess everything we do wrong. again not possible.

Our want to separate our selves from sin is in fact repentance from sin and so long as we maintain this separation we are in a perpetual state of grace. as we are in a perpetual state of having turn 180* from sin!

It is when we embrace or make excuse of our sin do we need then repent, because the old man who is a slave to sin is taken back over and we both soul and spirit have embraced sin. again repentance is not confession. repentance is an internal 180* turn from sin so rather than embracing sin you turn and hate it, even if your spirit/old man is a slave to it and you sin every day of the rest of your life. So long as you turn/repent you need not beg for forgiveness for every little thing. remember it's not about us or what we do EG Forgiveness ritual or ceremony that makes us worthy or righteous before God. it is a gift of Grace given to those in whom God loves.

Which is why the whole verse and the context of 1tim 1 makes more sense when I say it supports me.

Look at what paul says before and after your cherry picked verse.
5 Love is the purpose of my command. Love comes from a pure heart. It comes from a good sense of what is right and wrong. It comes from faith that is honest and true. 6 Some have turned from these teachings. They would rather talk about things that have no meaning. 7 They want to be teachers of the law. And they are very sure about that law. But they don’t know what they are talking about.

8 We know that the law is good if it is used properly. 9 We also know that the law isn’t made for godly people. It is made for those who break the law. It is for those who refuse to obey. It is for ungodly and sinful people. It is for those who aren’t holy and who don’t believe. It is for those who kill their fathers or mothers. It is for murderers. 10 It is for those who commit sexual sins. It is for those who commit homosexual acts. It is for people who buy and sell slaves. It is for liars. It is for people who tell lies in court. It is for those who are a witness to things that aren’t true. And it is for anything else that is the opposite of true teaching. 11 True teaching agrees with the good news about the glory of the blessed God. He trusted me with that good news.

Did you see it? lets walk through together:

Paul starts in verse 5 stating love (as I am describing) is the purpose of his writing tim, and love is what determines right and wrong but some... have turned from those teachings (about love determining right and wrong) They/you want to be teachers of the law (instead of teaching the love aspect Paul and I are teaching) because you know the law and are very sure of the law. But you/they don't know what you are talking about.

verse 8 the law is good if used properly, but we also know the law is not made for godly people/ the people who follow christ and are in a perpetual state of grace because they are in repentance of sin. Rather the law is made for those who refuse to obey, it is for ungodly people/ people who are not in a state of grace/people who have not and do not repent. The law is only there to judge people like this and he goes on to give examples of people who embrace sin.

Can you see what happens when you take a legit verse out of context, verse how it can mean the exact opposite when you put it back together with everything else's said in the same breath?

Everything you said or rather everything you think 1 tim1:9 says... the opposite is true and we know the opposite is true because from verse 5-9 it supports everything I said from the law being obsolete to Love defining what is right and wrong. Paul even goes on to speak about people who do not teach the love as we teach but teach the law as being wrong for doing so..

What more in a exegesis could one want if one sought/seeks the truth?

Do you notice you have to give a sermon and then tag on a bible verse (cut from it context) to give what you say legitimacy? Do you see How I use whole blocks of text to do the talking for me?

Now if you argue my point to whom is your argument really directed? If I argue your point to whom is my argument directed?

Again I used 6 verses and simply explained what was literally on page, no crazy go here take this verse go there take that one do a hokie pokie and paste them together to get something new. I simply clarified what was on page and matched up what I said with what was already written.

Verses taking one single solitary verse out of it's original context isolate it and then build a narrative to describe all the thing this solitary verse could mean.
without a doubt if you only read 9 and then maybe conditioned to think 9 said what you claimed you could be made to think 10-13 also supports you. but the proble lies with everything before chapter 9. it contradict your idea of the law and who the law is meant for.

Hello drich0150. Let's be honest here brother, all you have achieved in this long post is avoid answering a simple question asked of you and are talking about something no one is even talking to you about while continuing to make allegations you cannot prove with the scriptures. Why try and make an argument that no one is talking about and then try and tear it down. Are you playing with straw? The question asked of you which you still have not answered was...

IS SOMEONE WHO IS LIVING A LIFE OF KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN IN A SAVED STATE BEFORE GOD OR AN UNSAVED STATE BEFORE GOD *HEBREWS 10:26-27?

Did you wish to answer the question now? Here I will add some extra scriptures to the one in the question if that will be helpful. HEBREWS 6:4-8; ROMANS 6:23; REVELATION 22:15; 1 JOHN 2:3-4; 1 JOHN 3:3-10. Please do not make up things no one is saying to you brother and then try and make an argument of it. All that was said to you that you were replying to was...

LoveGodsWord said: ↑ 1 TIMOTHY 1:9 is supporting what I am saying brother. If you are breaking any of God's ten Commandments you stand guilty before God of breaking them. Let me ask you are simple question that may help. If someone is living a life of KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN are they in a saved state before GOD or an UNSAVED state before God * HEBREWS 10:26-27?

Your reply to this post has nothing to do with the post you replied to or anything that I have previously posted. If you did not want to answer the question just say so. Maybe you can pray about it at home? These are God's WORDS not mine you are free to believed them or not. We all answer only to God come judgment day.

LoveGodsWord · Sep 20, 2018

drich0150 said:
Wow how self righteous are you?

Who asked you to insert yourself into this conversation?

Are you web site police?

Or is it because everyone is at odds with you and the way you chop up the bible to suit your needs? or maybe you are such a martyr you just assume anything negative I had to say would automatically be about you? why not check and see who I quoted before you bull rush in.. If I am quoting stuff you did not say... then helloo.. Mcfly, maybe I am not quoting you!

How about an apology for the accusation of slander directed at you when I clearly quoted another member, or at the very least exercise some web-itcate and ask or make an introduction if two people are having a conversation and you want in. don't accuse me of slander when I am clearly quoting someone else.
Page 2 post #37 fatal heart is who I was speaking to not you..

Hello drich0150, nice to see you again brother. This is a public forum. If you want to make private posts send a PM. The reason for the reply to you was because yes you were talking to someone else but the topic included myeself where you said this...

drich0150 wrote: Wow noting person but my biggest petpeeve is when people preach using scrap book theology.. you know when a well meaning brother take a verse or even worse a sentence out of context, preach up a sermon and paste the scrap verse on the end to give it authority or meaning, all the while discarding it's orginal meaning and or intent. I don't think you guys knowing do this wrong or your intention is not to misrepersent the bible, it just your teachers do it and you see no problem with it. But I do. it allows you to change what the bible says by using the bibles own words.

*EMPHASIS in red is mine.

So if this post is going to include me then I have a right of reply. You made many claims of slander in this same post of yours without proving a single claim you made (Your words from the post I responded to e.g. preaching scrap book theology; taking verses and sentences out of context; discarding it's orginal meaning and or intent; you to change what the bible says by using the bibles own words; My goal here is not to shame you but to get you scrap book theologians to stop this practice; This post e.g. How self righteous are you?; Mentally challenged; are you having a stroke or something? seriously? how many times have you made this mistake?; Your so vain).

Brother these are your words not mine. These are allegation you made not me. You have made all these allegation and have not been able to prove a single one of them with scripture. Therefore it is slander especially if you cannot prove what you have said.

What I think you are upset about however is the post your quoting from and are not responding to. This post shows that you are the one that has taken scripture out of CONTEXT by trying to say that MATTHEW 5:43-48 is a new commandment by trying to quote the OLD TESTAMENT scripture reference of LEVITICUS 19:18 as hating your brother. Your argument was that this scripture was a reference to hating your enemies when the verse before it v17 says you shall not hate your brother and there is no scripture in the OLD Testament that says you should hate your enemies.

When your making claims or allegations please address the posts and scriptures provided to you. Simply choosing to ignore them and making up arguments no one is talking about only shows you cannot answer the scripture or posts sent to you.

Now if your making all these claims and accusations as you have made above then you should be able to prove your claims and allegations with the scriptures as I have done for you when you were shown you have used scriptures out of context for MATTHEW 5:43-48 and LEVITICUS 19:18 (see post # 68 linked)

If you cannot then your allegations and claims are simply slander and as such it is you who owes the apology but I will leave that between you and God. I have already forgiven you.

Hope this helps

bekkilyn · Sep 20, 2018

LoveGodsWord said:
MATTHEW 13:14-15
[14], And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which said, By hearing you shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing you shall see, and shall not perceive:
[15], For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

"No one sews a piece of unshrunk cloth on an old cloak, for the patch pulls away from the cloak, and a worse tear is made." (Matthew 9:16)

daydreamer40 · Sep 20, 2018

bekkilyn said:
"No one sews a piece of unshrunk cloth on an old cloak, for the patch pulls away from the cloak, and a worse tear is made." (Matthew 9:16)

And no one after drinking the old wine wants the new, for they say: The old is better Luke5:39

LoveGodsWord · Sep 21, 2018

bekkilyn said:
"No one sews a piece of unshrunk cloth on an old cloak, for the patch pulls away from the cloak, and a worse tear is made." (Matthew 9:16)

Whosoever commits sin is a servant of sin. If the son shall make you free you shall be free indeed. Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. Whosoever abides in him sins not: whosoever sins hath not seen him, neither known him. Little children, let no man deceive you: he that does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He that commits sin is of the devil; for the devil sins from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. We are sinners indeed but we have a Saviour for those that our Heavenly father have given ears to hear and eyes to see but Jesus says; For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Do you know these scriptures? If you do what do they mean to you?

bekkilyn · Sep 21, 2018

daydreamer40 said:
And no one after drinking the old wine wants the new, for they say: The old is better Luke5:39

Jesus certainly does acknowledge that people in general do not like change. However if you mix the new wine in with the old wineskin, the fermentation will grow so great that it will explode the old wineskin.

bekkilyn · Sep 21, 2018

LoveGodsWord said:
Whosoever commits sin is a servant of sin. If the son shall make you free you shall be free indeed. Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. Whosoever abides in him sins not: whosoever sins hath not seen him, neither known him. Little children, let no man deceive you: he that does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He that commits sin is of the devil; for the devil sins from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. We are sinners indeed but we have a Saviour for those that our Heavenly father have given ears to hear and eyes to see but Jesus says; For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Do you know these scriptures? If you do what do they mean to you?

"There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do: by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and to deal with sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, so that the just requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit." (Romans 8:1-4)

FatalHeart · Sep 21, 2018

bekkilyn said:
"There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do: by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and to deal with sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, so that the just requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit." (Romans 8:1-4)

And what does it mean to walk according to the Spirit?

bekkilyn · Sep 21, 2018

FatalHeart said:
And what does it mean to walk according to the Spirit?

We are walking according to the Spirit when we are obedient to the Spirit. Walking according to the Spirit is far different cry than walking according to the law and legalism of the old covenant, that was made obsolete and replaced with the new covenant of Jesus Christ who fulfilled it (brought it to an end) through his death and resurrection.

"From now on, therefore, we regard no one from a human point of view; even though we once knew Christ from a human point of view, we know him no longer in that way. So if anyone is in Christ, there is a new creation: everything old has passed away; see, everything has become new!" (2 Corinthians 5:16-17)

LoveGodsWord · Sep 21, 2018

bekkilyn said:
We are walking according to the Spirit when we are obedient to the Spirit. Walking according to the Spirit is far different cry than walking according to the law and legalism of the old covenant, that was made obsolete and replaced with the new covenant of Jesus Christ who fulfilled it (brought it to an end) through his death and resurrection.

"From now on, therefore, we regard no one from a human point of view; even though we once knew Christ from a human point of view, we know him no longer in that way. So if anyone is in Christ, there is a new creation: everything old has passed away; see, everything has become new!" (2 Corinthians 5:16-17)

Are you walking in God's Spirit if you are breaking his Commandments? How can you know what the NEW COVENANT is if you do not know what the OLD was?

THE COVENANTS AND THE 10 COMMANDMENTS ARE YOU CONFUSED?

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