Did Judas Get a Raw Deal?

No, Jesus got the raw deal, thanks to us.

Sam91 said:

How do you know that he didn't repent?

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Because Jesus called him (Judas) the son of perdition (destruction). And when Judas committed suicide, he was demonstrating he had an unrepentant heart.

Sam91 said:

Was not trying to return the money turning away from evil?

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Judas had regret for the consequences (metamelomai in Greek in the Bible (Matthew 27:3)). He did not have transformation of heart (metanoia in Greek) Godly repentance.

Phil 1:21 said:

No, Jesus got the raw deal, thanks to us.

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Maybe so but Judas will be in eternal damnation while Jesus will be glorified forever.

For me I identify with Judas unfortunately. I knew the goodness of God but I turned to my sinful ways. I might have the same fate. I can't seem to repent sincerely.

I think Judas was doomed from the start. It's not that he didn't have free will but rather things were set up so that Judas would take free will to betray Jesus.

Jesus did not protect him like He protected the other 11. Why? Judas was only human and yet he will receive no compassion.

redleghunter said:

That could mean Matthias as he was selected based on being one who was with Christ from the beginning of the ministry:

Acts 1: NASB

21Therefore it is necessary to select one of the men who have accompanied us the whole time the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, 22beginning from John’s baptism until the day Jesus was taken up from us. For one of these must become a witness with us of His resurrection.”

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“And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God. Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil? He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve.” (John 6:69–71)

Invalidusername said:

Maybe so but Judas will be in eternal damnation while Jesus will be glorified forever.

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We all deserve eternal damnation.

redleghunter said:

You believe Paul is referring to Judas in 1 Corinthians 15?

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Judas was never saved.

Phil 1:21 said:

We all deserve eternal damnation.

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There are different levels of damnation and I am pretty sure Judas got the worst since it would've been better for him to never have been born. I don't know how anyone can see someone suffer like that and thinks to himself that he is glad Judas got that punishment. FOREVER IS FOREVER. Judas at one time was a innocent child like us and then got molded by this sinful world and the devil's temptations and grew up into the man that he was. He wanted to repent but it was denied to him. He probably committed the Hebrews 6/10:26-31 apostasy. And he knew it since he "saw his condemnation". I think there was no chance for forgiveness for Judas and he knew it. Probably was revealed to him by a divine retribution OR the devil delighting in tormenting him. Either way he was doomed.

John tells us "Judas was greedy and taking money since he was the holder of the money." But we do not know what Jesus did knowing about this, so what would Jesus have done?
If someone is taking money from an organization you are in charge of, what do you do?
The money in the treasury at this time with Jesus here on earth is for those wanting to give and has nothing to do with the amount (Jesus could multiply the money like He did with the loafs and fishes). Jesus not concerned about the money itself (like we have to be) would be only concerned with Judas, so Jesus does not have to remove Judas from being the keep of the funds, but would he have to confront Judas?
Remember the dollars do not matter, but Judas is sinning by being greedy, so what would Jesus say and do?
So many times with "organizations", greedy individuals in the organization are always looking for how they can personally profit from the organization (this is the temptation all people in power have, especially politicians). Now Jesus would have gone to Judas and Judas may have promised not to take any more money and truly repented, but as time went on Judas is still looking for a way to personally profit from his position without getting money from the treasury.
Think how a clever greedy person would act to get money and not really create an issue? If I was greedy and there at the time seeing how Jesus had repeatedly without any trouble gotten out of every potential capturing or being killed, I would see how I could make money off that ability of Christ and do what Judas did, never expecting Christ would actually allow Himself to be captured, since He always got away. It would be like taking money from a baby (the Jewish leaders) and yet you did not steal money from them since you did what they asked and you took nothing from the group.

I don't understand why Jesus didn't "keep" Judas like he kept the other 11. He clearly either didn't love Judas or Judas was too evil to redeem.

Although Judas fulfilled the scripture, God sent his son Jesus down to die to save us in a noble case of self sacrifice. Judas in the other hand conspired with Jesus’s enemies to have him killed for money, I believe Judas will go to hell, but that’s just my view on it. Although he did repent in the end, but I don’t think murdering your lord will be easily forgiven.

To make a long story short, Judas sought to profit(no pun intended) materially off of Jesus's ministry as one of the 12 disciples( John 12:5 ) and as his betrayer. Judas had either already opened the door to Satan's influence prior to becoming a disciple or at some point during his discipleship(Scripture does not specify since it does not mention his prior acts/life).
With the door open, this allowed Satan to dangle the carrot(monetary gain through the betrayal of Jesus) in front of Judas, which he pursued quite willingly and blindly without regard to the consequences.

Did Judas get what he deserved? "Deserve" has nothing to do with it. Without Salvation, "everyone" would get what they deserve. Remember that we're saved by grace, not because we deserve it or are worthy of it. Judas could have been saved, just as Peter was restored after his denial. Consider the different routes Judas and Peter chose: Peter repented and opted to face the consequences of his actions while Judas sought to undo what he did by trying to return the money, and tried to avoid the consequences by taking his own life.
In the end, Peter had hope while Judas did not. This is not an issue of losing Salvation, but more of who had accepted it to begin with. It becomes apparent Judas did not since Scripture indicates Judas's final act was suicide, not repentance. Once you have Salvation, you cannot lose it.

So who are we that we should pass judgement or assume to know what the Almighty has/had planned, and assume that we know the fate of one such as Judas? The Almighty could have forgiven him, condemned him, or something else. Where were we when He laid the foundation of the world? Some of the topics debated here are kind of ridiculous, in that we assume we know or know better...

NW82 said:

Some of the topics debated here are kind of ridiculous, in that we assume we know or know better...

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You're right. We don't/can't know (on our own). They are educated guesstimates (known SWAG in the military ).

The twelve 'sent' is is fully expressed by Jesus before the cross. The twelve are a continuation of the order already established by God through Israel the father of the twelve tribes. It's importance is that Jesus chose twelve men who would be 'sent' to establish a new People of God in the world so twelve men are given the mission regardless of the one who abandoned his place. From the foundations established by the twelve, not eleven but twelve men would the House of God be built.

Judas didn't repent because he didn't give himself a chance to. He wanted his sin to be forgiven but his unbelief prevented him from seeking it in Christ. Unfortunate for him that his mind had closed to the possibility that Jesus was who he said he was. He knew that innocent blood was on his hands. He knew he was under the same curse as Cain who killed his innocent brother. His presence in Jerusalem when Jesus was crucified means he Experienced the darkness and the earthquake. He understood he had turned over the Messiah. He didn't understand or accept that his healing could be found with the twelve. He denied Christ to the end. No raw deal, he made his bed and chose to sleep in it.

Invalidusername said:

I don't understand why Jesus didn't "keep" Judas like he kept the other 11. He clearly either didn't love Judas or Judas was too evil to redeem.

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Read my post 29.
Jesus Loved the rich young man who walked away and did not follow Him, so why could He not Love Judas?
Jesus is not going to "decide" for Judas, but Judas had a chance to repent all the way up until he died.

ewq1938 said:

Definitely not true. A saved person can Apostatize and lose salvation. How could a non-saved person be given the title of Apostle? Judas is an example of being saved and a chosen vessel to serve the Lord and he chose to be evil, steal and ultimately betray Jesus himself serving Satan's desires, and committed suicide. That is a perfect example of Apostasy.

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Since when do titles afford one the benefit of salvation? Look at Judas's actions/behavior throughout the 4 NT Gospels. Its no different today, as there are individuals in leadership/titled positions within the church that are there for personal gain and not because they are genuine believers. Any kind of works Judas may have performed was centered on self-gain, not for serving the Lord.
"When one is saved, he no longer is what he was. If one still is what he was, he ain't!" Bad grammar, good theology...
The general idea is Judas was an opportunist for self gain prior to his discipleship and continued on in his practice right up to when Christ was condemned to death. Judas couldn't lose Salvation if he didn't have it to begin with.

So your idea that a saved person can apostatize and lose salvation is nonsense. However, what can happen to believers is a loss of reward, hence the reason why some will stand before Christ naked.

Some haven't quite grasped the concept of Salvation. Salvation is a given that is bestowed upon a believer when they genuinely(key word here) accept Christ. Nothing more is required. This keeps them from being condemned by the Law(remember Christ came to fulfill the Law, not remove it) for any past or future sins. Works, good or bad, have no bearing on salvation, period.

All will be judged, both saved and unsaved. The saved are judged by their works which determines their rewards or lack thereof and are not condemned by the Law. The unsaved, following the millennium, are resurrected and judged by their works which determines the severity of their punishment and are condemned by the Law.
"But judgment is given as the works have been. There is just gradation in the sorrows of the lost, as well as in the rewards of the righteous. If there is anything in any case to modify the guilt of sinners, or in any measure palliate their deficiencies ad crimes, the plain intimation is that every just allowance shall be made. Though all the finally condemned go into one place, they do not all alike feel the same pains, or sink the same depths in those dreadful flames. But the mildest hell is nevertheless hell, and quite too intolerable for any sane being to be content to make experiment of it." The Apocalypse J. A. Seiss p. 198