When Jerusalem shall be safe

shilohsfoal said:

There are some on this board who have been taught the occupants of israel and Jerusalem dwell in safety.

Zech 14:2 is reference to the war of Armageddon which says the city shall be taken and the women raped.Many will flee and go into captivity .

Zechariah 14:2 KJV: For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

Scripture is clear for the word of God says after our Lord comes and fights against those nations that come against Jerusalem,then and only then will the occupants of Jerusalem dwell safely.

Zechariah 14:11 KJV: And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.


Not before but after the Lord comes will the occupants of jerusalem dwell safely without fear.

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In the New Testament Israel is Jesus and those who believe in him. The resurrection on the last day followed by the rapture into the New Heavens and earth is the restoration of Israel. Physical Israel is not Biblical Israel today. Today's Jerusalem will remain trodden down of the gentiles until the end of the world. (all of this verifiable with scripture).

shilohsfoal said:

There are two resurrections in revelation.The first takes place at the beginning of the last day.

Revelation 20:4 KJV: And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Revelation 20:5 KJV: But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

It is at this time ,israel will dwell safely.The second resurrection takes place at the end of the last day.(a day is 1000 years to the Lord).After Gog invades Israel where Israel dwells safely,all of them.

Revelation 20:8 KJV: And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Revelation 20:9 KJV: And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

After Gog and his hordes are destroyed by God does the second resurrection take place.

Revelation 20:12 KJV: And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Revelation 20:13 KJV: And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

Then God makes everything new again.

Revelation 21:1 KJV: And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

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Revelation 20 is not about a physical millennium. It is about what is happening now since Jesus first walked the earth. If we make it about a future physical kingdom, we add to the book of Revelation which Jesus strictly warns against doing.

shilohsfoal said:

Ezekiel 38:8 KJV: After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them.

Only after the Lord comes will the occupants of the promised land dwell safely.Untill then there is no safety.

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While I do tend to agree with the OP, but placing the events of Ezekiel 38:8 post the 2nd coming though, I don't see that working out realistically.

Ezekiel 38:23 Thus will I magnify myself, and sanctify myself; and I will be known in the eyes of many nations, and they shall know that I am the LORD.


This would be meaning a time post the events in Ezekiel 38:8. How does verse 23 make sense if this is fulfilled a thousand years after the initial 2nd coming? The text says----and I will be known in the eyes of many nations, and they shall know that I am the LORD.

How could these nations not already clearly know that He is the LORD if these events occur post the 2nd coming some thousand years later?

For example. I live in the USA. Pretty much everyone in the USA knows who the current President is. Not only in the USA do pretty much everyone know who it is, but pretty much worldwide people know who the current President of the USA is. So one is to then believe that Christ can be physically present on the planet an entire thousand years, yet in the eyes of many nations during the thousand years, the LORD is not yet known to them, and that they don't yet know that He is the LORD? There is something vastly wrong with this picture if any of the events recorded in Ezekiel 38 are meaning a thousand years post the 2nd coming.

shilohsfoal said:

Ezekiel 38:8 KJV: After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them.

Only after the Lord comes will the occupants of the promised land dwell safely.Untill then there is no safety.

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Ezekiel 38:18 And it shall come to pass at the same time when Gog shall come against the land of Israel, saith the Lord GOD, that my fury shall come up in my face.
19 For in my jealousy and in the fire of my wrath have I spoken, Surely in that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel;
20 So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground.


Zechariah 14:11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.

Let's do some comparing.

and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited----Surely in that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel---and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground.

How can Zechariah 14:11 possibly be fulfilled before Ezekiel 38:18-20 are fulfilled first? How can there not be a contradiction in the above if all the above in the comparison are alleged to be true at the same time?

DavidPT said:

Ezekiel 38:18 And it shall come to pass at the same time when Gog shall come against the land of Israel, saith the Lord GOD, that my fury shall come up in my face.
19 For in my jealousy and in the fire of my wrath have I spoken, Surely in that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel;
20 So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground.


Zechariah 14:11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.

Let's do some comparing.

and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited----Surely in that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel---and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground.

How can Zechariah 14:11 possibly be fulfilled before Ezekiel 38:18-20 are fulfilled first? How can there not be a contradiction in the above if all the above in the comparison are alleged to be true at the same time?

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One thing that never adds up is Ezekiel 38 VS modern weaponry. Gog and Magog try to steal Israel's cattle using spears and horses. In surroundings with peoples long passed from history.

Another thing to consider, Jesus says Israel's restoration happens on the last day in the resurrection and rapture of believers (Biblical Israel) into the new heavens and earth.

Just sayin'...........

Dave L said:

One thing that never adds up is Ezekiel 38 VS modern weaponry. Gog and Magog try to steal Israel's cattle using spears and horses. In surroundings with peoples long passed from history.

Another thing to consider, Jesus says Israel's restoration happens on the last day in the resurrection and rapture of believers (Biblical Israel) into the new heavens and earth.

Just sayin'...........

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These are some good points. I would have no issues with these things having been already fulfilled in ancient times if one could at least prove it. The following is a super major event to not have gotten recorded in the Bible as to it's fulfillment, assuming it's already been fulfilled, or at least recorded in ancient history books.

Ezekiel 38:22 And I will plead against him with pestilence and with blood; and I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon the many people that are with him, an overflowing rain, and great hailstones, fire, and brimstone.

How could what is listed in verse 22 have already occurred in past history, yet not one single record of when it allegedly was fulfilled?

DavidPT said:

These are some good points. I would have no issues with these things having been already fulfilled in ancient times if one could at least prove it. The following is a super major event to not have gotten recorded in the Bible as to it's fulfillment, assuming it's already been fulfilled, or at least recorded in ancient history books.

Ezekiel 38:22 And I will plead against him with pestilence and with blood; and I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon the many people that are with him, an overflowing rain, and great hailstones, fire, and brimstone.

How could what is listed in verse 22 have already occurred in past history, yet not one single record of when it allegedly was fulfilled?

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We can not rule past fulfillment out based on our ignorance of it. But another point to consider is that Jerusalem will be trodden down until the times of the gentiles are fulfilled. And Jesus tells us to preach the gospel to the gentiles until the end of the world.... Today's Jews are gentiles since God abolished circumcision. It made one a physical Jew and physical member of Israel.

shilohsfoal said:

You just took aaay from the book of revelation.You cant even quotr what you just said because its not there.
Here is the litteral 1000 year reign with Christ.

Revelation 20:4 KJV: And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Now you should write your own book and leave revelation alone.

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Not so. The 1000 years is the binding of Satan, He attacks the kingdom when the 1000 years end.

Dave L said:

We can not rule past fulfillment out based on our ignorance of it. But another point to consider is that Jerusalem will be trodden down until the times of the gentiles are fulfilled. And Jesus tells us to preach the gospel to the gentiles until the end of the world.... Today's Jews are gentiles since God abolished circumcision. It made one a physical Jew and physical member of Israel.

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Your other post about the cattle got me to thinking some more.

Zechariah 2:3 And, behold, the angel that talked with me went forth, and another angel went out to meet him,
4 And said unto him, Run, speak to this young man, saying, Jerusalem shall be inhabited as towns without walls for the multitude of men and cattle therein:
5 For I, saith the LORD, will be unto her a wall of fire round about, and will be the glory in the midst of her.


What do you make of the above?


Let's do some comparing with Ezekiel 38.

Ezekiel 38:8 After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them.
9 Thou shalt ascend and come like a storm, thou shalt be like a cloud to cover the land, thou, and all thy bands, and many people with thee.
10 Thus saith the Lord GOD; It shall also come to pass, that at the same time shall things come into thy mind, and thou shalt think an evil thought:
11 And thou shalt say, I will go up to the land of unwalled villages; I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates,
12 To take a spoil, and to take a prey; to turn thine hand upon the desolate places that are now inhabited, and upon the people that are gathered out of the nations, which have gotten cattle and goods, that dwell in the midst of the land.


Jerusalem shall be inhabited as towns without walls for the multitude of men and cattle therein----I will go up to the land of unwalled villages---all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates--- which have gotten cattle and goods, that dwell in the midst of the land.

How can there not be a connection between Zechariah 2:3-5 and Ezekiel 38:8-12?

shilohsfoal said:

It may not be realistic for you but it is for the word of Gog.

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Since I assumed you might disagree, I was hoping you at least had an argument or two in order to try and convince me you might be the one correct instead. But I didn't just say it doesn't seem realistic, then leave it at that. I did at least attempt to show why. Do you agree or disagree that when one is interpreting things, that one should also try and use good common sense while doing so?

shilohsfoal said:

Very simple.
The people who dwell in jerusalem when Gog invades israel have put on incorruption.
Altbough the ground may shake ,they are quite safe.

Revelation 20:4 KJV: And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Gog cant kill these people.They are safe and secure.

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We're not just talking about people though. Zechariah 14:11 indicates the city of Jerusalem itself, that there shall be no more utter destruction there. How can every wall in the land of Israel falling to the ground not add up to utter destruction?

DavidPT said:

Your other post about the cattle got me to thinking some more.

Zechariah 2:3 And, behold, the angel that talked with me went forth, and another angel went out to meet him,
4 And said unto him, Run, speak to this young man, saying, Jerusalem shall be inhabited as towns without walls for the multitude of men and cattle therein:
5 For I, saith the LORD, will be unto her a wall of fire round about, and will be the glory in the midst of her.


What do you make of the above?


Let's do some comparing with Ezekiel 38.

Ezekiel 38:8 After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them.
9 Thou shalt ascend and come like a storm, thou shalt be like a cloud to cover the land, thou, and all thy bands, and many people with thee.
10 Thus saith the Lord GOD; It shall also come to pass, that at the same time shall things come into thy mind, and thou shalt think an evil thought:
11 And thou shalt say, I will go up to the land of unwalled villages; I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates,
12 To take a spoil, and to take a prey; to turn thine hand upon the desolate places that are now inhabited, and upon the people that are gathered out of the nations, which have gotten cattle and goods, that dwell in the midst of the land.


Jerusalem shall be inhabited as towns without walls for the multitude of men and cattle therein----I will go up to the land of unwalled villages---all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates--- which have gotten cattle and goods, that dwell in the midst of the land.

How can there not be a connection between Zechariah 2:3-5 and Ezekiel 38:8-12?

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Since the kingdom is purely spiritual in the NT, John uses Gog and Magog symbolically for his end of the world scene. So I assume whatever took place physically in history became a symbol for us to go by. I don't think we can move otherwise unless we can prove physical fulfillment did not happen. And this is impossible.