Was God unfair to punish Pharaoh for Abraham's deceit?

leowls · Sep 16, 2018

Genesis 12:10–20

Pharaoh provided food and lodging to Abraham's family and yet his household had to suffer physical ailment on account on Abraham's lie. What is your thoughts on this? Is there a good explanation for this?

eleos1954 · Sep 16, 2018

leowls said:
Genesis 12:10–20

Pharaoh provided food and lodging to Abraham's family and yet his household had to suffer physical ailment on account on Abraham's lie. What is your thoughts on this? Is there a good explanation for this?

Perhaps it was more so He sent the plagues as protection of Sarah. Perhaps these plagues on Pharaoh and his house were not so much a punishment as a message, but they are definitely an example of the sins of one person causing others to suffer.

One God · Sep 16, 2018

What lie????
She was his sister!

ewq1938 · Sep 16, 2018

leowls said:
Genesis 12:10–20

Pharaoh provided food and lodging to Abraham's family and yet his household had to suffer physical ailment on account on Abraham's lie. What is your thoughts on this? Is there a good explanation for this?

Gen 20:11 And Abraham said, Because I thought, Surely the fear of God is not in this place; and they will slay me for my wife's sake.
Gen 20:12 And yet indeed she is my sister; she is the daughter of my father, but not the daughter of my mother; and she became my wife.
Gen 20:13 And it came to pass, when God caused me to wander from my father's house, that I said unto her, This is thy kindness which thou shalt shew unto me; at every place whither we shall come, say of me, He is my brother.
Gen 20:14 And Abimelech took sheep, and oxen, and menservants, and womenservants, and gave them unto Abraham, and restored him Sarah his wife.

Mike Czaj · Sep 16, 2018

leowls said:
Genesis 12:10–20

Pharaoh provided food and lodging to Abraham's family and yet his household had to suffer physical ailment on account on Abraham's lie. What is your thoughts on this? Is there a good explanation for this?

Abraham feared for his life. Although his solution was wrong, it seems to me that the threat was real. So I see God making it clear to Pharaoh just Who is in control. A side effect may have been Pharaoh's attitude toward harem gathering!

Kaon · Sep 16, 2018

leowls said:
Genesis 12:10–20

Pharaoh provided food and lodging to Abraham's family and yet his household had to suffer physical ailment on account on Abraham's lie. What is your thoughts on this? Is there a good explanation for this?

Do the animals we were supposed to sacrifice deserve death? No, the died because of our insolence and ignorance. Ignoring the plethora of "lore," and mythology surrounding Pharaoh and Egypt, no it is not unfair.

We are supposed to be Godly people; when we mess up, it disrupts everything under our umbrella. Abraham's lie radiated outward - even to the the life of Pharaoh. And, it shouldn't be surprising seeing as though it directly related Abraham and the Pharaoh. The "god on earth," or Pharaoh, is still subjected to the Most High God - which means even Pharaoh is under the umbrella of Godly persons (vis a vis: Moses).

ewq1938 · Sep 16, 2018

Mike Czaj said:
Abraham feared for his life. Although his solution was wrong, it seems to me that the threat was real.

There was nothing wrong done here by Abraham. She was his half sister and when she was taken, God punished those who took her.

ewq1938 · Sep 16, 2018

Kaon said:
Abraham's lie radiated outward

There is no lie in the text.

Kaon · Sep 16, 2018

ewq1938 said:
There is no lie in the text.

It was a lie by legalese - deception. He didn't tell the full truth.

Abraham exploited culture.

ewq1938 · Sep 16, 2018

Kaon said:
It was a lie by legalese - deception. He didn't tell the full truth.

Abraham exploited culture.

It was not a lie nor deception. She was his sister and he was not wrong for giving out that info and not giving out more. Only Pharaoh was the one who was wrong in forcing women to marry him or be his "female slaves" or whatever the term would be. God was punishing the Pharaoh for his sinful ways. What Abraham did was God approved.

Kaon · Sep 16, 2018

ewq1938 said:
It was not a lie nor deception. She was his sister and he was not wrong for giving out that info and not giving out more. Only Pharaoh was the one who was wrong in forcing women to marry him or be his "female slaves" or whatever the term would be. God was punishing the Pharaoh for his sinful ways. What Abraham did was God approved.

Ok.

leowls · Sep 16, 2018

ewq1938 said:
It was not a lie nor deception. She was his sister and he was not wrong for giving out that info and not giving out more. Only Pharaoh was the one who was wrong in forcing women to marry him or be his "female slaves" or whatever the term would be. God was punishing the Pharaoh for his sinful ways. What Abraham did was God approved.

It was a half truth. She was his half sister and wife. Abraham didn't tell the full truth. After marrying Sarah, it would be natural for one to expect him to call Sarah his wife instead of sister. So yes there is the intention to deceive.

ewq1938 · Sep 16, 2018

leowls said:
It was a half lie. She was his half sister and wife. Abraham didn't tell the full truth.

So why did God punish Pharaoh and not Abraham?

leowls · Sep 16, 2018

ewq1938 said:
So why did God punish Pharaoh and not Abraham?

That's the purpose of this thread...I'm here to find some good answers.

ewq1938 · Sep 16, 2018

leowls said:
That's the purpose of this thread...I'm here to find some good answers.

I've presented what I think. What God did is key to understanding who was wrong and who was not, who sinned and who did not.

Greg J. · Sep 17, 2018

leowls said:
Genesis 12:10–20

Pharaoh provided food and lodging to Abraham's family and yet his household had to suffer physical ailment on account on Abraham's lie. What is your thoughts on this? Is there a good explanation for this?

Pharaoh was accountable to God for his actions, but he had never been a Godly man. IMO, he had rejected the Source (God) of insight for the truth of Abraham's marital condition.

You see something similar with the Pharaoh with Moses and the 10 plagues (Exodus 4:21, Exodus 7:3, and Pharaoh hardened his own heart intentionally in several places, e.g. Exodus 8:15, 32). It is written that God hardened Pharaoh's heart so that he would reject Moses' words (and how he should have reacted to the plagues). It reads like God severely punishing someone without justification, but that Pharaoh had always been an ungodly man who had earned eternity in hell. God is the Judge and gave him only a small taste of what he really deserved.

lismore · Sep 17, 2018

leowls said:
Genesis 12:10–20

Pharaoh provided food and lodging to Abraham's family and yet his household had to suffer physical ailment on account on Abraham's lie. What is your thoughts on this? Is there a good explanation for this?

Punished for adultery?

ewq1938 · Sep 17, 2018

lismore said:
Punished for adultery?

More like kidnapping and possible rape.

leowls · Sep 17, 2018

Greg J. said:
Pharaoh was accountable to God for his actions, but he had never been a Godly man. IMO, he had rejected the Source (God) of insight for the truth of Abraham's marital condition.

You see something similar with the Pharaoh with Moses and the 10 plagues (Exodus 4:21, Exodus 7:3, and Pharaoh hardened his own heart intentionally in several places, e.g. Exodus 8:15, 32). It is written that God hardened Pharaoh's heart so that he would reject Moses' words (and how he should have reacted to the plagues). It reads like God severely punishing someone without justification, but that Pharaoh had always been an ungodly man who had earned eternity in hell. God is the Judge and gave him only a small taste of what he really deserved.

Thanks, now I realized men will only take action and do the necessary when in pain or in some sort of trouble. If God did not do what he did, things could have gotten worse. Pharaoh's heart would only get hardened and possibly kill Abraham for his deception. Though the 2 Pharaohs in Gen and Exodus are different individuals but men's hearts are the same. They work and function in the same way. God was merciful too to Pharaoh for he only inflicted plagues on his house. He did not take any lives. He could have for the sinful lifestyle of Pharaoh.

Greg J. · Sep 17, 2018

The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it? “I the LORD search the heart and examine the mind, to reward a man according to his conduct, according to what his deeds deserve.” (Jeremiah 17:9-10, 1984 NIV)

Was God unfair to punish Pharaoh for Abraham's deceit?

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