The coming of God in the OT versus the coming of Jesus in the NT

claninja

Well-Known Member
Jan 8, 2017
5,647
2,189
indiana
✟298,136.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
God coming down from heaven to defeat David's enemies
2 Samuel 22:1,10-11 And David spoke to the Lord the words of this song on the day when the Lord delivered him from the hand of all his enemies, and from the hand of Saul. He bowed the heavens and CAME DOWN; thick darkness was under his feet. He rode on a cherub and flew; he was seen on the wings of the wind.

God coming on the clouds to destroy Egypt via the Assyrians
Isaiah 19:1 An oracle concerning Egypt. Behold, the Lord is riding on a swift CLOUD
and COMES to Egypt;

God coming down from heaven to destroy Samaria via the Assyrians
Micah 1:3 For behold, the Lord is COMING out of his place, and will come down and tread upon the high places of the earth.

God judging Jerusalem in their midst via Babylon
Ezekiel 5:8 therefore thus says the Lord God: Behold, I, even I, am against you. And I will execute judgmentsb IN YOUR MIDST in the sight of the nations.

Jesus (who is God) coming on the clouds to judge Jerusalem
Matthew 24:30 Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the tribes of the land will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory

Why does the language used to describe Jesus' coming in the NT mean something different than the language used to describe God's coming in the OT?
 

Dave L

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Jun 28, 2018
15,549
5,875
USA
✟580,110.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
God coming down from heaven to defeat David's enemies
2 Samuel 22:1,10-11 And David spoke to the Lord the words of this song on the day when the Lord delivered him from the hand of all his enemies, and from the hand of Saul. He bowed the heavens and CAME DOWN; thick darkness was under his feet. He rode on a cherub and flew; he was seen on the wings of the wind.

God coming on the clouds to destroy Egypt via the Assyrians
Isaiah 19:1 An oracle concerning Egypt. Behold, the Lord is riding on a swift CLOUD
and COMES to Egypt;

God coming down from heaven to destroy Samaria via the Assyrians
Micah 1:3 For behold, the Lord is COMING out of his place, and will come down and tread upon the high places of the earth.

God judging Jerusalem in their midst via Babylon
Ezekiel 5:8 therefore thus says the Lord God: Behold, I, even I, am against you. And I will execute judgmentsb IN YOUR MIDST in the sight of the nations.

Jesus (who is God) coming on the clouds to judge Jerusalem
Matthew 24:30 Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the tribes of the land will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory

Why does the language used to describe Jesus' coming in the NT mean something different than the language used to describe God's coming in the OT?
The revelation was not complete until after the NT canon became complete.
“Now I desire to remind you (even though you have been fully informed of these facts once for all) that Jesus, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, later destroyed those who did not believe.” (Jude 5)
 
  • Agree
Reactions: One God
Upvote 0

eleos1954

God is Love
Supporter
Nov 14, 2017
9,698
5,614
Utah
✟713,703.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
God coming down from heaven to defeat David's enemies
2 Samuel 22:1,10-11 And David spoke to the Lord the words of this song on the day when the Lord delivered him from the hand of all his enemies, and from the hand of Saul. He bowed the heavens and CAME DOWN; thick darkness was under his feet. He rode on a cherub and flew; he was seen on the wings of the wind.

God coming on the clouds to destroy Egypt via the Assyrians
Isaiah 19:1 An oracle concerning Egypt. Behold, the Lord is riding on a swift CLOUD
and COMES to Egypt;

God coming down from heaven to destroy Samaria via the Assyrians
Micah 1:3 For behold, the Lord is COMING out of his place, and will come down and tread upon the high places of the earth.

God judging Jerusalem in their midst via Babylon
Ezekiel 5:8 therefore thus says the Lord God: Behold, I, even I, am against you. And I will execute judgmentsb IN YOUR MIDST in the sight of the nations.

Jesus (who is God) coming on the clouds to judge Jerusalem
Matthew 24:30 Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the tribes of the land will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory

Why does the language used to describe Jesus' coming in the NT mean something different than the language used to describe God's coming in the OT?

It doesn't mean something different. It is because all prophecy must be fulfilled. It is a continuous unfolding of events until ALL is done (and that's a lot) and that being until the Lord creates the earth anew.
 
Upvote 0

Dkh587

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Jun 6, 2014
3,049
1,770
Southeast
✟552,407.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
The revelation was not complete until after the NT canon became complete.
“Now I desire to remind you (even though you have been fully informed of these facts once for all) that Jesus, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, later destroyed those who did not believe.” (Jude 5)
Some translations say Jesus, but it says “the Lord” there. In actuality, it is much more likely that the Tetragrammaton was being referenced(YHWH - Yahweh), and not Jesus. Yahweh saved His people out of Egypt.
 
Upvote 0

Dave L

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Jun 28, 2018
15,549
5,875
USA
✟580,110.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Some translations say Jesus, but it says “the Lord” there. In actuality, it is much more likely that the Tetragrammaton was being referenced(YHWH - Yahweh), and not Jesus. Yahweh saved His people out of Egypt.
This is true, but the LXX translates YHWH = Lord (Greek Kurios). And the NT uses the same Kurios for Lord Jesus.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: One God
Upvote 0

Dkh587

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Jun 6, 2014
3,049
1,770
Southeast
✟552,407.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
This is true, but the LXX translates YHWH = Lord (Greek Kurios). And the NT uses the same Kurios for Lord Jesus.
That’s because Kurios is a general word meaning “lord”, which means master. many people are called lord in the Bible. It’s not exclusive to God & Jesus.

When we see “the Lord Jesus” it doesn’t mean “the YHWH Jesus”. When we see “the Lord” in the New Testament, unless we know for sure it’s a quote from the Law & Prophets, we gotta use context to determine whether it’s being used to refer to the Tetragrammaton or the Messiah.
 
Upvote 0

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,492
28,587
73
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,240.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
That’s because Kurios is a general word meaning “lord”, which means master. many people are called lord in the Bible. It’s not exclusive to God & Jesus.

When we see “the Lord Jesus” it doesn’t mean “the YHWH Jesus”. When we see “the Lord” in the New Testament, unless we know for sure it’s a quote from the Law & Prophets, we gotta use context to determine whether it’s being used to refer to the Tetragrammaton or the Messiah.
Dave L said:
This is true, but the LXX translates YHWH = Lord (Greek Kurios). And the NT uses the same Kurios for Lord Jesus.
Interesting.
2 Peter and Revelation both use the word #1203 meaning a "lord/owner/master"

https://www.christianforums.com/thr...elation-symbolizing-the-lake-of-fire.8081196/


1203. despotes perhaps from 1210 and posis (a husband);
an absolute ruler ("despot"):--Lord, master.


2 Peter 2:1
And there did come also false prophets among the people, as also among you there shall be false teachers,
who shall bring in besides destructive sects,
and the Lord/Owner/Master/despothn <1203> who bought<59> them denying/disowning/arnou-menoi <720> (5740),
bringing to themselves quick destruction
[Jeremiah 14:14,15/Matt 24:11/Jude 1:4/Revelation 6:10]

Revelation 6:10 [Daniel 12/Luke 21:22]
And they cry out to a great voice saying "how long! the Lord/Owner/Master/despothV <1203> the Holy and True,

not Thou are judging and avenging<1556> the blood of us from out of the ones homing upon the land?"

Luke 21 Daniel 12/Revelation 6:10
22 “For these are the days of vengeance<1557> that ALL THINGS which are written may be fulfilled.

23 “But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days!
For there will be great distress in the land and wrath upon this people.
[Daniel 12 "distress"]


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Despot_(court_title)

Despot or despotes (Greek: δεσπότης, translit. despótēs, "lord", "master")[1][2][n 1]
was a senior Byzantine court title that was bestowed on the sons or sons-in-law of reigning emperors, and initially denoted the heir-apparent of the Byzantine emperor.

The original Greek term δεσπότης (despotēs) meant simply "lord" and was synonymous with κύριος (kyrios).

As the Greek equivalent to the Latin dominus, despotēs was initially used as a form of address indicating respect.[6] As such it was applied to any person of rank, but in a more specific sense to God,[7] bishops and the patriarchs, and primarily the Roman and Byzantine Emperors, occasionally used in formal settings, for example on coins (since Leo III the Isaurian) or formal documents.[6][8]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Despotism

Despotism (Greek: Δεσποτισμός, Despotismós)
is a form of government in which a single entity rules with absolute power. Normally, that entity is an individual, the despot, as in an autocracy, but societies which limit respect and power to specific groups have also been called despotic.[1]

Colloquially, the word despot applies pejoratively to those who abuse their power and authority to oppress their populace, subjects, or subordinates. More specifically, the term often applies to a head of state or government. In this sense, it is similar to the pejorative connotations that are associated with the terms tyrant and dictator.[2]



 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: joyshirley
Upvote 0

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,492
28,587
73
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,240.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
Some translations say Jesus, but it says “the Lord” there. In actuality, it is much more likely that the Tetragrammaton was being referenced(YHWH - Yahweh), and not Jesus. Yahweh saved His people out of Egypt.
Yes, it certainly does mean "YHWH Jesus."
Good info

There appears to be a few words for "Lord" in the OT.

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?page=6&strongs=H113&t=YLT#lexResults
Strong's Number H113 matches the Hebrew אָדוֹן ('adown), which occurs 335 times in 287 verses

113 'adown aw-done' or (shortened) adon {aw-done'}; from an unused root (meaning to rule);
sovereign, i.e. controller (human or divine):-- lord, master, owner. Compare also names beginning with "Adoni-".

Malachi 3:1

Behold! I am sending My messenger, And he hath prepared a way before Me,
And suddenly come in unto his temple Doth the Lord/'adown<113> whom ye are seeking, Even the messenger of the covenant, Whom ye are desiring,
Behold! He is coming, saith Yahweh of Hosts<6635>
.

Here is another word for Lord and it is used together with Yahweh numerous times as "Adonay Yahweh" .
[I wish more translations would at least render the hebrew transliteration of the words]

Look up the hebrew word אֲדֹנָי ('Adonay) <136>

136 'Adonay ad-o-noy' am emphatic form of 113;
the Lord (used as a proper name of God only):--(my) Lord.

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?page=9&strongs=H136&t=YLT#lexResults
Strong's Number H136 matches the Hebrew אֲדֹנָי ('Adonay), which occurs 434 times in 419 verses

Zephaniah 1:7
Hush! because of 'Adonay Yahweh,
For near is a day of Yahweh,
For prepared hath Yahweh a sacrifice, He hath sanctified His invited ones.

Ezekiel 22:3
Then say thou, Thus saith 'Adonay Yahweh,
The city sheddeth blood in the midst of it, that her time may come, and maketh idols against herself to defile herself.
YLT
Jer 4:10
And I say, 'Ah, Lord Jehovah, Surely thou hast entirely forgotten this people and Jerusalem, saying, Peace is for you, And struck hath a sword unto the soul!'
Jer 14:13
And I say, 'Ah, Lord Jehovah, Lo, the prophets are saying to them: Ye do not see a sword, yea, famine is not to you, For true peace I give to you in this place.'
Jer 49:5 Lo, I am bringing in upon thee a fear, An affirmation of the Lord Jehovah of Hosts,
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

mkgal1

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33
Supporter
Jun 22, 2007
27,339
7,349
California
✟551,233.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
Why does the language used to describe Jesus' coming in the NT mean something different than the language used to describe God's coming in the OT?
I don't believe it DOES mean something different.

 
  • Agree
Reactions: claninja
Upvote 0

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,492
28,587
73
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,240.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
claninja said:
Why does the language used to describe Jesus' coming in the NT mean something different than the language used to describe God's coming in the OT?
I don't believe it DOES mean something different.
I tend to agree.

Prophecy of the Son of Man/Son of God coming to His Temple:


Malachi 3:1
"Behold! I am sending My messenger, and he hath prepared a way before Me,
And suddenly come in unto His Temple doth 'Adown/Lord-Master<113> whom ye are seeking,

Even the Messenger of the Covenant, Whom ye are desiring.
Behold! He is coming" says Yahweh of Hosts.


Luke 2:34 [Ezekiel 37:11 "Valley of Bones"]
And Simon blesses them and said toward Mary, the mother of Him,
"Behold! this-One is set for the Falling and Resurrection/ana-stasin <386> of many in Israel and into a Sign spoken against"--


1st time Jesus comes to His Temple:

Luke 2:42
42 And when He was twelve years old, they went up to Jerusalem according to the custom of the feast.
46 Now so it was that after three days they found Him in the Temple, sitting in the midst of the Teachers, both listening to them and asking them questions.

And all who heard Him were astonished at His understanding and answers.[Isaiah 11:6 "..and a little child shall lead them"]

Later, He comes with a whip:

Matthew 21:12 [Nahum 3:2/Revelation 18:11]
And Jesus entered into the Temple of God, and did cast forth all those selling and buying in the temple,
and the tables of the money-changers he overturned, and the seats of those selling the doves,


Next the murderous Jewish religious rulers and High Priest dare to confront the Son of God/Man

https://www.christianforums.com/thr...ing-jesus-coming-on-clouds-of-heaven.8070185/

Matthew 26:64
Jesus Is saying to him "thou say, moreover I am saying to ye,
from present/now ye shall be seeing the Son of Man
sitting out of rights of the power and coming upon the clouds of the heaven".
Mark 13:26
'And then they shall see the Son of Man coming in clouds
with much power and glory,
Luke 21:27
'And then they shall see the Son of Man, coming in a cloud,
with power and much glory; [Revelation 14:14 "son of man sitting on cloud....harvest]

I thought this was a little humurous. The Jews asking this question:

John 12:34
the multitude answered Him,
"We heard out of the law that the Christ doth remain -- to the age; and how dost thou say, 'That it behoveth the Son of Man to be lifted up'?
who is this -- the Son of Man?'


The phrase "Son of God" occurs in 1 verse of Revelation, the church of Queen Jezebel:

http://www.kingdombiblestudies.org/Revelation/rev46.htm
"The church in Thyatira has a longer message delivered to it from Jesus Christ than any of the seven churches",

Revelation 2:18
'And to the messenger of the assembly in Thyatira write!
These things saith the Son of God, who is having His eyes as a flame of fire, and His feet like to fine brass;

The phrase "Son of man" only occurs in 2 verses of Revelation:

Revelation 1:13
and in the midst of the seven lamp-stands, one like to a son of man, clothed to the foot, and girt round at the breast with a golden girdle,
Revelation 14:14
And I saw and behold! a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sitting like to a son of man,
having upon his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle;[Joel 3:13

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=7283568
The Harvest of Matt 13/Reve 14

Matthew 13:30

"Suffer-ye! to be together-growing both until the Harvest.
And in the time of the Harvest I shall be declaring to the Harvesters 'together-collect the darnel........[Reve 14:15]

Revelation 14:15
And another Messenger came out out of the Sanctuary crying out in a voice great to the one sitting upon the cloud
"send! the sickle of thee and reap! that came the hour to reap, that is dried the harvest of the land. [Joel 3:13/Matt 13:30]


.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,492
28,587
73
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,240.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
Matthew and Mark both use the plural "clouds" concerning the coming of the Son of Man:

Matthew 26:
63 and Jesus was silent. And the Chief-priest answering said to Him, `I adjure thee, by the living God, that thou mayest say to us, if thou art the Christ--the Son of God.' [REVELATION 2:18]
64 Jesus is saying to him "thou say.
Moreover I am saying to ye, at-present<737> ye shall be seeing the Son of the Man sitting<2521> out of rights of the power<1411>
and coming upon the clouds of the heaven

Mark 14:62
Yet Jesus said I AM and ye shall be seeing the Son of the Man out of rights sitting
of the power and coming with the clouds of the heaven.

Revelation 1:7
Behold! He is coming with the clouds and shall be seeing Him every eye even/also those who Him they pierce<1574>
and shall be grieving<2875> over Him all the tribes of the land. Yea, Amen.

However, Luke uses singular "cloud"

Luke 21:27
And then they shall be seeing the Son of the Man coming in a cloud with power and much glory.

Used in 3 verses of Revelation.

Revelation 11:12
And they hear a great Voice<5456> out of the Heaven saying to them "ascend<305> ye here!
Amd they ascended into the heaven in the cloud and their enemies behold them.

Revelation 14:
14 And I looked and behold! a white cloud and upon the cloud like-as a Son of Man sitting<2521> having a golden crown upon His head and in His hand, a sharp<3691> sickle<1407>
15 And another Messenger came out of the Sanctuary<3485> crying-out<2896> in a great voice to the One sitting upon the cloud
"send/thrust!<3992> the sickle of Thee and reap!<2325> that came the hour to reap, that is dried<3583> the harvest<2326> of the land
16 And the One sitting upon the cloud casts His sickle upon the land and is reaped the land.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

mkgal1

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33
Supporter
Jun 22, 2007
27,339
7,349
California
✟551,233.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
Upvote 0

hedrick

Senior Veteran
Supporter
Feb 8, 2009
20,250
10,565
New Jersey
✟1,147,348.00
Faith
Presbyterian
Marital Status
Single
Some translations say Jesus, but it says “the Lord” there. In actuality, it is much more likely that the Tetragrammaton was being referenced(YHWH - Yahweh), and not Jesus. Yahweh saved His people out of Egypt.
This is a textual issue. There are manuscripts with Jesus, Lord, and the Lord. The UBS committee considers Lord likely with a level of B (meaning some but not much uncertainty), according to Metzger, but there is some manuscript support for Jesus as well.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,492
28,587
73
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,240.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
Any thoughts on that distinction LL?

I'm still in the 3000 ft level view at the moment (the big overview).
Makes me want to sing "ain't no mountain high enuf" by the Supremes :)

All 3 Gospel accounts record this AWESOME event of the Transfiguration [when Moses and Elijah appeared].
Could the cloud be symbolizing a type of glory of God that Moses witnessed in Exodus 24 on Mt Sinai? [shown at bottom of post]

Act 3:22 [Deuteronomy 18:15, 18 Acts 7:37]
“For Moses truly said to the fathers,
‘The LORD your God will raise up for you a Prophet like me from your brethren. Him you shall hear in all things, whatever He says to you.


I wonder how high this mountain was?

Matthew 17:
1 And after six days, Jesus takes with Him Peter, and James, and John his brother, and brings them up into a high mountain by themselves.
5
Still of Him speaking, behold!
a luminous<5460> cloud overshadows them and behold! a Voice out of the cloud saying "this is being the Son of Me, the Beloved, in Whom I am well-pleased<2106>,
be ye hearing Him!


Mark 9:7

And became a cloud overshadowing the and became a voice out of the cloud saying " this is being the Son of Me, the Beloved,
be ye hearing Him!


Luke 9:

34 These yet of Him saying, became a cloud and overshadowed them and they were fearful. Yet in the to be entering them into the cloud
35 and a Voice became out of the cloud saying "this is the Son of Me, the one having been chosen,
Him be ye hearing!


Exodus 24:15
Then Moses went up into the mountain, and a cloud covered the mountain.
Now the glory of the LORD rested on Mount Sinai, and the cloud covered it six days.
And on the seventh day He called to Moses out of the midst of the cloud.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: joyshirley
Upvote 0

Daniel Martinovich

Friend
Supporter
Oct 7, 2011
1,982
591
Southwest USA
Visit site
✟487,316.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
God coming down from heaven to defeat David's enemies
2 Samuel 22:1,10-11 And David spoke to the Lord the words of this song on the day when the Lord delivered him from the hand of all his enemies, and from the hand of Saul. He bowed the heavens and CAME DOWN; thick darkness was under his feet. He rode on a cherub and flew; he was seen on the wings of the wind.

God coming on the clouds to destroy Egypt via the Assyrians
Isaiah 19:1 An oracle concerning Egypt. Behold, the Lord is riding on a swift CLOUD
and COMES to Egypt;

God coming down from heaven to destroy Samaria via the Assyrians
Micah 1:3 For behold, the Lord is COMING out of his place, and will come down and tread upon the high places of the earth.

God judging Jerusalem in their midst via Babylon
Ezekiel 5:8 therefore thus says the Lord God: Behold, I, even I, am against you. And I will execute judgmentsb IN YOUR MIDST in the sight of the nations.

Jesus (who is God) coming on the clouds to judge Jerusalem
Matthew 24:30 Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the tribes of the land will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory

Why does the language used to describe Jesus' coming in the NT mean something different than the language used to describe God's coming in the OT?
It doesn't and to further that. There is no such phrase in the Bible as "the second coming." It's fake and designed to throw people off as to the nature of the Lords many physical comings to the earth.
 
Upvote 0

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,492
28,587
73
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,240.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
Jesus (who is God) coming on the clouds to judge Jerusalem
Matthew 24:30 Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the tribes of the land will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory
:bow:
It doesn't and to further that. There is no such phrase in the Bible as "the second coming." It's fake and designed to throw people off as to the nature of the Lords many physical comings to the earth.
What about Hebrews 9:28?

Hebrews 9:28
so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many;
and He shall be being seen/ofqhsetai<3700> a second-time,

not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.
Hebrews 12:1
Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles.
And let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us,

Revelation 1:7
Behold! He is coming with the clouds and shall be seeing/oyetai <3700> Him every eye even/also those who Him they pierce<1574>

and shall be grieving<2875> over Him all the tribes of the land. Yea, Amen.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: joyshirley
Upvote 0

Daniel Martinovich

Friend
Supporter
Oct 7, 2011
1,982
591
Southwest USA
Visit site
✟487,316.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Does this count?

Hebrews 9:28
so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many;
and He shall be being seen/ofqhsetai<3700> a second-time,

not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.
Hebrews 12:1
Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles.
And let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us,

Revelation 1:7
Behold! He is coming with the clouds and shall be seeing/oyetai <3700> Him every eye even/also those who Him they pierce<1574>

and shall be grieving<2875> over Him all the tribes of the land. Yea, Amen.
No, because as you pointed out that is not the Greek word for coming but the Greek word, to be seen. Plus there is the whole context of verse in Hebrews.

You need to contemplate the fact that a third of evangelical Christianity consider the phrase “the second coming” an “essential” truth of Christianity. By essential I mean you can’t be saved unless you accept it. The other two thirds don’t think it’s an essential truth but The first thing they will do is question the salvation of one who denies it.

The reason I bring this up is because if that phrase “The Second coming” was something that carries sooooooo much doctrinal weight and is so authoritative in this day and age. It would be all over the scripture.

Instead what you see in the NT is THE EXACT SAME illustrative language about the coming of the Lord used in the OT to prophesy OT days of judgement recorded in the OT as fulfilled upon OT nations .
What we have going on today is a tradition of men that makes the Word of God useless.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums