Are nudist church services morally acceptable?

mmksparbud · Sep 14, 2018

Darkhorse said:
My understanding is, their white robes represent the Righteous of Christ.

It may be what they represent, it is never the less, what they wear.

Darkhorse · Sep 14, 2018

mmksparbud said:
Yews, I know about mikvahs----they are private. They are ritual cleansing baths and are still done today. They are done prior to marriage, after a woman's menstrual cycle, and other cleansings.

When you arrive at the mikveh, if you are coming for one of the reasons mandated by Jewish law, you most likely will not go straight to the ritual bath. Instead, you will be assigned a private preparation room, essentially a large bathroom complete with a bathtub, shower, sink, and toilet. Before immersing in the mikveh, Jewish law requires that one thoroughly clean one’s body, typically including taking a bath or shower, clipping nails, and brushing teeth. This ensures that there are no barriers between the person immersing and the mikveh water. Some mikve’ot provide shampoo, soap, combs and toothbrushes. It’s best to ask before you visit so you know if you have to bring your own toiletries.

In an effort to cultivate an image of mikveh observance as relaxing and spa-like, many new mikve’ot have lovely, even lavish, preparation rooms. Some are even equipped with jacuzzis. You can take your time in the preparation room. Or, if you prefer, you can get ready at home and just use the preparation room for a quick shower before you immerse.

After your bath or shower, cover up with a towel or bathrobe (almost always provided). At most modern mikve’ot, there is a bell to ring to alert a mikveh attendant when you are ready to dunk. Usually, the mikveh attendant will meet you at the back door of your preparation room — this door leads straight to the ritual bath. No one other than the mikveh attendant will see you when you walk from your preparation room to the mikveh itself.

The Big Dip
Before you enter the mikveh, the attendant may offer to check your hands, feet, or back for stray hairs or other potentially unwanted barriers that may get between you and the mikveh waters. If you are comfortable with this, you can accept the offer. But if you do not want to be checked, you usually do not have to.

The mikveh attendant will take your towel or bathrobe and look away as you go down the stairs and enter the water. Though it can feel awkward or uncomfortable to be naked in front of a stranger, it may help to keep in mind that mikveh attendants attempt to be discreet and look at your body only once you are under water, ready to immerse your head. They are watching to check that every part of your hair and body is submerged, and they are also there to ensure your safety in the water.

The Sephardic custom is to recite the blessing first and then submerge completely for a moment or two. Ashkenazic Jews usually submerge once, then recite the blessing, and then submerge either one or two more times. The mikveh blessing is the same for converts and for women before marriage and keeping niddah. Many mikvaot provide the text.

Barukh ata Elohenu melekh ha’olam asher kideshanu b’mitzvotav v’tzivanu al ha’tevillah.

Blessed are You, O Lord, our God, King of the universe, who has sanctified us with Your commandments and commanded us concerning the immersion.

בּרוּךְ אַתָּה יְיָ אֱלהֵינוּ מֶלֶךְ הָעוֹלָם אֲשֶׁר קִדְשָׁנוּ בּמִצְוֹתָיו וְצִוָנוּ עַל הַטְבִילָה

After you have blessed and immersed, if you like, you can spend some time in the mikveh for personal reflection or prayer.

As you come out of the water, the mikveh attendant will give you back your towel or bathrobe, and might give you a little blessing too — for a healthy marriage, or a happy life as a Jew, depending on the reason you immersed.

You can return to your preparation room and get dressed. On your way out, you may be asked to pay a fee (usually in the $18-$36 range, though it can be more for a conversion), or to make a donation, for maintenance of the mikveh.

This is not what John the Baptist was doing! There is not one mention of nudity when it came to public baptisms.
Mar 1:5 And there went out unto him all the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins.
Mar 1:6 And John was clothed with camel's hair, and with a girdle of a skin about his loins; and he did eat locusts and wild honey;

Public mikvahs were not done in the nude. These were not cleansing baths but public expression of ones faith. Outer robes only were removed. Baptisms are spiritual cleansings, mikvahs are physical cleansings.

Great explanation!

Where are the details of John's baptismal ritual described in the Bible?

DamianWarS · Sep 14, 2018

Maria Sweet said:
Here is a YouTube video about a church where the congregants and preacher participate in religious services while being butt naked:

Personally, I think it is morally unacceptable to have church services while in the nude. 1 Corinthians 6:19 says that our bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit. Therefore, we should not strip down naked while in the house of the Lord--or anywhere in public. That's weird!

Nudists need Christ too.

mmksparbud · Sep 14, 2018

Darkhorse said:
Great explanation!

Where are the details of John's baptismal ritual described in the Bible?

Exactly---nothing states they were naked. That is not the traditional Jewish way of a public mikvah.

DamianWarS · Sep 15, 2018

I think having services in the nude and generally nudist lifestyle is irresponsible however I may be projecting as I know it would be a bad idea for me and not a good environment for worship (again for me). If we are only talking about being nude without it being sexualised or immoral behaviour as the result how can I condemn it if they give glory to God? I think on a moral level if we can accept a Christian being a nudist than we must accept a nudist church as well.

Phronema · Sep 15, 2018

Unreal.

How long until we see the "fornication during church services thread"? I guess one could ask themselves what does being nude during a church service do to assist in revering God? At no point does being nude make it easier or better to worship God. If anything it detracts everyones mind from Him.

Church service is meant to worship God. Revolving around nudity is strange, and serves no purpose related to God.

Mountainmanbob · Sep 15, 2018

Maria Sweet said:
Personally, I think it is morally unacceptable to have church services while in the nude. 1 Corinthians 6:19 says that our bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit. Therefore, we should not strip down naked while in the house of the Lord--or anywhere in public. That's weird!

Their pastor had such a big belly for a moment I thought they were worshipping Buddha.
M-Bob

Doctor.Sphinx · Sep 15, 2018

2PhiloVoid said:
Where in Scripture is this taught? I think it takes more than a reference to Adam and Eve's not being ashamed of their nakedness before the Fall, or King David's dance in the buff before the Lord (an isolated example, really) for us to then say, "...but, God's Word tells us this is a good thing!"

Again, if you think this nudist philosophy 'works' for you, then that's between you and the Lord, but personally, if the Apostles weren't doing this kind of thing (and I'm fairly confident that they weren't), then I'm very, very hesitant to adopt it into my perspective on faith.

I can imagine the apostle Paul seriously kicking the butt's of the elders, deacons, and attendees of such a church. More likely, though, he would simply speak to those attending other churches not to associate with such (non-Christian) people.

Doctor.Sphinx · Sep 15, 2018

Maria Sweet said:
It’s good to know they take measures to ensure the perverts are kept out. If I ever found myself at a nudist resort, hypothetically speaking of course, my number one concern would be creepy men leering at me.

Lol. So you don't consider nudists to be any particular type of pervert?

I'm not really sure who invented nudism, but it wouldn't surprise me greatly to learn it was invented by creepy men who wanted to leer at (attractive and incredibly naive) women, with a cover story to say they were doing something else.

Mountainmanbob · Sep 15, 2018

Be careful at the end of the sermon when you slam that Bible shut.

And once again the pastor states, I hate that when I do that!

We are asking for the whole congregation after the service to come up and lay hands on the pastor for healing purposes. All eyes should remain closed.

M-Bob

Maria Sweet · Sep 15, 2018

Doctor.Sphinx said:
Lol. So you don't consider nudists to be any particular type of pervert?

I'm not really sure who invented nudism, but it wouldn't surprise me greatly to learn it was invented by creepy men who wanted to leer at (attractive and incredibly naive) women, with a cover story to say they were doing something else.

I called nudism weird in my original post. However, I've read through Darkhorse's posts on this subject, and he seems like a normal person even though he goes to naturalist resorts. If nudists' intent for their lifestyle isn't perverse or sexual in nature, I wouldn't call them perverts. Would you?

Maria Sweet · Sep 15, 2018

Mountainmanbob said:
Their pastor had such a big belly for a moment I thought they were worshipping Buddha.
M-Bob

I initially thought about making a derisive remark about the pastor's weight while being in the nude, but I didn't want my post to get taken down for flaming or whatever. But yeah, it's kind of sick to be that overweight while preaching naked. If people are going to be nudists, they should get in-shape if they already aren't.

Mountainmanbob · Sep 15, 2018

Maria Sweet said:
If nudists' intent for their lifestyle isn't perverse or sexual in nature, I wouldn't call them perverts. Would you?

Not at all.
Worked for several years with an older nudist gentleman who lived at a nudist camp. His name was Smokey Tom. Smokey Tom had a picture of his wife and him on his toolbox at their wedding and they were both naked. Even though he had a big belly they were a handsome couple.

Actually many years later I met and dated for a short while a lady who worked as a cook at that same nudist colony. She invited me several times to come out for a visit. I told her I had several parts of my body that had never seen the sun and truly did not want to get sunburned.

M-Bob

Maria Sweet · Sep 15, 2018

Mountainmanbob said:
Not at all.
Worked for several years with an older nudist gentleman who lived at a nudist camp. His name was Smokey Tom. Smokey Tom had a picture of his wife and him on his toolbox at their wedding and they were both naked. Even though he had a big belly they were a handsome couple.

Actually many years later I met and dated for a short while a lady who worked as a cook at that same nudist colony. She invited me several times to come out for a visit. I told her I had several parts of my body that had never seen the sun and truly did not want to get sunburned.

M-Bob

When I made this thread, I had several misconceptions about why people engage in nudism. But after reading through posts like yours and having people explain why it's not such a bad thing, I've changed my mind on the subject. Still, it's not something I would ever do. I would feel too self-conscious and weird if I were ever to visit a naturalist camp, beach, or resort.

Tayla · Sep 15, 2018

Maria Sweet said:
1 Corinthians 6:19 says that our bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit. Therefore, we should not strip down naked while in the house of the Lord--or anywhere in public. That's weird!

Yes, it's just plain weird.

Baby Alice · Sep 15, 2018

akaDaScribe said:
Genesis 3
21Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.

Though this only apples if you believe Adam and eve were real and not just a moral story.

Sam91 · Sep 15, 2018

I think of the extra clothing the levitical priests wore as to not accidentally expose themselves in the presence of the Lord and risk death.

42“Make linen undergarments as a covering for the body, reaching from the waist to the thigh. 43Aaron and his sons must wear them whenever they enter the tent of meeting or approach the altar to minister in the Holy Place, so that they will not incur guilt and die.

“This is to be a lasting ordinance for Aaron and his descendants.

Exodus 28:42-43

Doctor.Sphinx · Sep 15, 2018

Maria Sweet said:
I called nudism weird in my original post. However, I've read through Darkhorse's posts on this subject, and he seems like a normal person even though he goes to naturalist resorts. If nudists' intent for their lifestyle isn't perverse or sexual in nature, I wouldn't call them perverts. Would you?

Yes. The nakedness by itself is perverse.

Obedience is better than sacrifice.

Berean Tim · Sep 15, 2018

Maria Sweet said:
Here is a YouTube video about a church where the congregants and preacher participate in religious services while being butt naked:

Personally, I think it is morally unacceptable to have church services while in the nude. 1 Corinthians 6:19 says that our bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit. Therefore, we should not strip down naked while in the house of the Lord--or anywhere in public. That's weird!

Their trying to bring Jesus in to the world to justify their lifestyle. It's not acceptable IMO

akaDaScribe · Sep 15, 2018

Darkhorse said:
Of course I believe it; only the priests could approach the altar, not the common people.

Exodus 20:26

And do not go up to my altar on steps, or your private parts may be exposed.

Exodus 28:42

Make linen undergarments as a covering for the body, reaching from the waist to the thigh. 43 Aaron and his sons must wear them whenever they enter the tent of meeting or approach the altar to minister in the Holy Place, so that they will not incur guilt and die.

This is to be a lasting ordinance for Aaron and his descendants.

I mean do you really think that if God did not want the prospect of priests' nakedness being seen due to stairs that he would be ok with an entire congregation, including the priest/pastor, being naked during the worship service?

If you live in a nudest colony, I can appreciate how the people would not think about it one way or the other because being naked is the norm in that place.

When I thought about it this morning, I realized that if I set up a church in a remote area where I was reaching out to people who basically lived naked and that was the norm, I would be more interested in sharing the gospel with them than trying to get them to wear clothes. This does not mean I think that God is wrong for wanting people to be clothed, but that you have to reach people where they are. To me, this is different though than knowlingly teaching people that something is ok when it contradicts the Bible. At that point it becomes more of a defiance thing.

Are nudist church services morally acceptable?

Are nudist religious services morally acceptable?

Yes

No

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