Is the GREAT CITY in Revelation symbolizing the LAKE OF FIRE?

LittleLambofJesus · Sep 11, 2018

Has anyone here thought about that City symbolizing the "gehenna" spoken of by Jesus in the Gospels. [there are some that view the City as OC Sodom/Jerusalem].

Revelation 18:8
by this, in one day shall be arriving the blows of Her, death and sorrow and famine.
And in fire She shall be being burned,
that strong Lord, the God, the one judging Her
18 “and cried out when they saw the smoke of Her burning, saying, ‘What is like this great City?'

Revelation 19:3
And a second-time they have declared "allelouia!
and the smoke of Her is ascending into the Ages of the Ages".

[This a link to a similar thread I started back in 2010 on the GT board]
https://www.christianforums.com/threads/oc-jerusalem-and-lake-of-fire.7434988/

OC Jerusalem, Lake of Fire the Same?

- *
  Yes it is possible they are the same
  5 vote(s)
  13.2%
- No, it is not possible they are the same
  8 vote(s)
  21.1%
- That is an absurb and ridiculous view!
  10 vote(s)
  26.3%
- I have never thought of it that way
  6 vote(s)
  15.8%
- I don't know
  6 vote(s)
  15.8%
- None of the above
  3 vote(s)
  7.9%

LittleLambofJesus · Sep 12, 2018

Posted from another thread in reply to a post about this thread:

FineLinen said:
Dear LittleLamb: over 20 years ago the Spirit of the Lord spoke 6 words to me. Those 6 words were the beginning of why this link has come into articulation. The 6 words I will not disclose on any thread, including this one.

I will say this: the Lake of Fire radiates with theion. The Lake is the Lake of Fire & Deity. The foundation for theion = Theos. What the Lord dropped into me changed my life forever. There are 30 unspoken sermons of the expression of God, George MacDonald. One of them is the Consuming Fire. In the final words of that "sermon" is what the Lord disclosed to me 100 years later.

LittleLambofJesus · Sep 13, 2018

1067. geena gheh'-en-nah of Hebrew origin (1516 and 2011); valley of (the son of) Hinnom; ge-henna (or Ge-Hinnom),
a valley of Jerusalem, used (figuratively) as a name for the place (or state) of everlasting punishment:--hell.

Matthew uses #1067 in 7 verses.
These 3 verses are used in Mark, but none in Luke:

Matthew 5:
29 'But, if thy right eye doth cause thee to stumble, pluck it out and cast from thee, for it is good to thee that one of thy members may perish, and not thy whole body be cast to gehenna.
30'And, if thy right hand doth cause thee to stumble, cut it off, and cast from thee, for it is good to thee that one of thy members may perish, and not thy whole body be cast to gehenna.
Matthew 28:
'And if thine eye doth cause thee to stumble, pluck it out and cast from thee; it is good for thee one-eyed to enter into the life, rather than having two eyes to be cast to the gehenna of the fire.

Mark uses it in only 3 verses:

Mark 9:

43 'And if thy hand may cause thee to stumble, cut it off; it is better for thee maimed to enter into the life, than having the two hands, to go away to the gehenna, to the fire -- the unquenchable --
45 'And if thy foot may cause thee to stumble, cut it off; it is better for thee to enter into the life lame, than having the two feet to be cast to the gehenna, to the fire -- the unquenchable --
47And if thine eye may cause thee to stumble, cast it out; it is better for thee one-eyed to enter into the reign of God, than having two eyes, to be cast to the gehenna of the fire --

Luke's Gospel uses #1067 just 1 time [same verse as Matt 10:28:

Luke 12:5
but I will show to you, whom ye may fear; Fear him who, after the killing, is having authority to cast to the gehenna; yes, I say to you, Fear ye Him.
Mathew 10:28
'And be not afraid of those killing the body, and are not able to kill the soul, but fear rather Him who is able both soul and body to destroy in gehenna.

Revelation 20:15
And anyone not found written in the Book of the Life was cast into the Lake of Fire.

Daniel 12
1“At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then.
But at that time your people—everyone whose name is found written in the book—will escape

LittleLambofJesus · Sep 13, 2018

The word for lake #3041 that is used in Revelation occurs in 4 other verses in the NT, all in Luke.

It is eerily similar to the word for "famine"<3042> and close to the word for "harbor"<3040>.
[I could find no instance of the word "lake" in the OT].

3041. limne lim'-nay probably from 3040 (through the idea of nearness of shore); a pond (large or small):--lake.
3042. limos lee-mos' probably from 3007 (through the idea of destitution); a scarcity of food:--dearth, famine, hunger.
3040. limen lee-mane' apparently a primary word; a harbor:--haven. Compare 2568.

Luke 5:
1 And it came to pass, in the multitude pressing on him to hear the word of God, that he was standing beside the lake<3041> of Gennesaret<1082>,
2 and he saw two boats standing beside the lake<3041>, and the fishers, having gone away from them, were washing the nets

Luke 8:
22 And it came to pass, on one of the days, that he himself went into a boat with his disciples, and he said unto them, ‘We may go over to the other side of the lake<3041>’, and they set forth,
23 and as they are sailing he fell deeply asleep, and there came down a storm of wind to the lake<3041>, and they were filling, and were in peril.

1082. Gennesaret ghen-nay-sar-et' of Hebrew origin (compare 3672); Gennesaret (i.e. Kinnereth), a lake and plain in Palestine:--Gennesaret.
1067. geena gheh'-en-nah of Hebrew origin (1516 and 2011)

Matthew 14:34
And having passed over, they came to the land of Gennesaret<1082>

Mark 6:53
And having passed over, they came upon the land of Gennesaret<1082>, and drew to the shore,

LittleLambofJesus · Sep 14, 2018

Purple and Fine-Linen

The Rich Man [King]

http://www.herealittletherealittle.net/index.cfm?page_name=Lazarus

Luke 16:19
Yet a certain Man was rich
and was clothed/en-edidu-sketo <1737> (5710) purple and fine-linen making-merry down to a-day shiningly
Mark 15:
17 And they put on Him purple, and having twisted together a crown of thorns, they placed it on Him,
18 and they began to salute Him, “Hail, King of the Jews!”

The Rich Woman [Queen]

Revelation 18:
7 As much as glorifies herself, and indulges be giving to her tormenting and mourning that in her heart she is saying 'I am sitting a Queen and widow not I am and mourning not I shall be seeing'.
11 11 And the merchants of the land weep and mourn for Her, because no one buys their cargo any longer—
11 cargo of gold, and of silver, and of precious stone, and of pearls; and of fine-linen, and of purple, and of silk, and of scarlet

Proverbs 31:22
She makes tapestry for herself;
Her clothing is fine linen and purple.
Ezekiel 27:
7 Fine embroidered linen from Egypt was what you spread for your sail;
Blue and purple from the coasts of Elishah was what covered you.
16 “Syria was Your merchant because of the abundance of goods you made.
They gave you for your wares emeralds, purple, embroidery, fine linen, corals, and rubies.

A71 · Sep 14, 2018

Jeremiah smashed the pot in the Valley of Hinnon
Jeremiah 19

LittleLambofJesus · Sep 14, 2018

A71 said:
Jeremiah smashed the pot in the Valley of Hinnon
Jeremiah 19

Yeah that is a pretty somber chapter, as is Ezekiel 22,

If Ezekiel 22 is about the holocaust in Jerusalem 70ad, the only way I know of that the Jews would be gathered to Jerusalem is during the feast of the Passover, when their Messiah Jesus was crucified/sacrificed as the Passover Lamb.

Being "melted" is pretty harsh...........

Ezekiel 22:
17 Then the word of Yahweh came to me, saying, 18 “Son of adam!
the House of Israel has become dross to Me.
All of them are copper, tin, iron, and lead inside the furnace; they are but the dross of silver.

19 Therefore this is what my Lord Yahweh says:
‘Because all of you have become dross, behold! I will gather you into Jerusalem.
20 Just as one gathers silver, copper, iron, lead, and tin into the furnace to melt with a fiery blast,
so I will gather you in My anger and wrath, leave you there, and melt you.
21 Yes, I will gather you together and blow on you with the fire of My wrath,
and you will be melted within the City.
22 As silver is melted in a furnace, so you will be melted inside the City.
Then you will know that I Yahweh, have poured out My wrath upon you.’”

https://www.christianforums.com/threads/daniel-12-1-and-luke-21-same-event.8076171/#post-73025354
Daniel 12 and Luke21

Daniel 12:1
"In that time Michael shall stand-up, the great chief/prince, the one standing over sons of thy people.
And time of distress/06869(tsarah), which not has become since to become of a nation, until the time, that.
And in that time, thy people shall escape, every of the one being found being written in scroll.

Luke appears to use "great distress/necessity" instead of "great tribulation" used in Matt 24

Luke 21:23
"Woe to the ones in belly having and the ones suckling in those the Days!
For shall be great distress/necessity<318>(anagkē) upon the Land and wrath upon this people.

Revelation 18:8
by this, in one day shall be arriving the blows of Her, death and sorrow and famine;
and in fire She shall be being burned, that strong Lord, the God, the one judging Her

http://www.bible.ca/pre-destruction70AD-george-holford-1805AD.htm

The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover.
At this season multitudes came up from all the surrounding country, and from distant parts, to keep the festival and the city was at this time crowded with Jewish strangers,...........

.........Meanwhile the horrors of famine grew still more melancholy and afflictive. The Jews, for want of food were at length compelled to eat their belts, their sandals, the skins of their shields, dried grass, and even the ordure of oxen. In the depth or this horrible extremity, a Jewess of noble family urged by the intolerable cravings of hunger, slew her infant child, and prepared it for a meal ;........

.

LittleLambofJesus · Sep 16, 2018

Drunk, ships and mariners of the sea

Ephesians 5:
18 and be not drunk with wine, in which is dissoluteness,
but be filled-full in the Spirit, [Jeremiah 51:7 Revelation 17:2]

Revelation 17:2 [Jeremiah 51:7]
“with Whom the kings of the land committed fornication,
and the inhabitants of the earth were made drunk with the wine of Her fornication.”

Jeremiah 51:7 [Revelation 17:2
Babylon was a golden cup in the LORD's hand,
That made all the earth drunk.
The nations drank Her wine;
Therefore the nations are boasterous/staggering.

Revelation 18:19 [Ezekiel 26:17 27:9]
17'And every shipmaster, and all the company upon the ships, and sailors, and as many as work the sea, far off stood,
19 and they did cast dust upon their heads, and were crying out, weeping and sorrowing, saying, "woe! woe! the great City!
in which were made rich all having ships in the sea, out of Her preciousness --
for in one hour was She made-waste/desolate<2049>.

Ezekiel 26:17 [Revelation 18:19]
And have lifted up for thee a lamentation, And said to thee: "How hast Thou perished, That art inhabited from the seas,
The praised City, that was strong in the sea,
She and her inhabitants, Who put their terror on all her inhabitants"!
Ezekiel 27:9 [Revelation 18:19
Elders of Gebal and its wise men have been in thee, Strengthening thy breach;
All ships of the sea and their mariners, Have been in Thee, to trade with thy merchandise.

Shempster · Sep 16, 2018

I don't think so. If you look at all of the instances of FIRE, it points to God himself and his judgement.
I am pretty sure the lake of fire IS the very presence of God and the angels.
It is also knows as the "second death". We are told that no man can see God or he would die.But the wicked are raised again to stand in his presence. Perhaps the lake of fire is a deeper dimension of himself that causes sin and death, ego and lust, greed and hatred to burn up.
The Greek word Basanos for the English use of "torture" symbolizes a stone bowl that was heated with fire to purify goldand other metals. The reason I think this is because Revelation specifically mentions SULFUR in the lake of fire. Basanos could also mean infliction of pain as well and that is that the reason the scribes chose torture instead. But that change is exactly why people think God hates us and just can't wait to torture us. If it refers to a crucible, then the nature and character of God changes from harsh and vindictive to restorative love.
Most people I know think the sulfur is there to make the agony of being burnt much worse. But in reality, the sulfur is what helps to incinerate the impurities in the metal....and perhaps also in the heart of man.

LittleLambofJesus · Sep 17, 2018

Shempster said:
I don't think so. If you look at all of the instances of FIRE, it points to God himself and his judgement.
I am pretty sure the lake of fire IS the very presence of God and the angels.
Most people I know think the sulfur is there to make the agony of being burnt much worse. But in reality, the sulfur is what helps to incinerate the impurities in the metal....and perhaps also in the heart of man.

Isaiah 34
3 Also their slain shall be thrown out; Their stench shall rise from their corpses,
And the mountains shall be melted with their blood.
8 For it is the day of the LORD’s vengeance, The year of recompense for the cause of Zion.
9 Its streams shall be turned into pitch, And its dust into brimstone;
Its land shall become burning pitch.
10 It shall not be quenched<3518> night or day; Its smoke shall ascend into eon/ `owlam<5769>.
From generation<1755> to generation<1755> it shall lie waste;
No one shall pass through it forever<5331> and ever<5331>.

H1755 a revolution of time, i.e. an age or generation; also a dwelling:--age, X evermore, generation, (n-)ever, posterity.
H5331 a goal, i.e. the bright object at a distance travelled towards; hence (figuratively), splendor, or (subjectively) truthfulness, or (objectively) confidence; but usually (adverbially), continually (i.e. to the most distant point of view); --alway(-s), constantly, end, (+ n-)ever(more), perpetual, strength, victory.

Who would the "them" be symbolizing in relation to OC Jerusalem in Reve 19:13?

Revelation 14:11
And the Smoke of the tormenting<929> of THEM into Ages of Ages is ascending.
And not they are having rest of Day and of Night the Ones worshiping the Beast
eiV <1519> aiwnaV <165> aiwnwn <165>

Revelation 19:3
and a second time They have declared "Hallelujah
and the Smoke of HER is ascending into the Ages of the Ages"
eiV touV aiwnaV twn <3588> aiwnwn <165>

929. basanismos from 928; torture:--torment.
928. basanizo from 931; to torture:--pain, toil, torment, toss, vex.
930. basanistes bas-an-is-tace' from 928; a torturer:--tormentor.
931. basanos bas'-an-os perhaps remotely from the same as 939 (through the notion of going to the bottom); a touch-stone, i.e. (by analogy) torture:--torment.

Strong's Number G931 matches the Greek βάσανος (basanos), which occurs 3 times in 3 verses

Luke 16
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments<931>,
and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment<931>.

LittleLambofJesus · Sep 18, 2018

So we have the similarity

Isaiah 34
3 Also their slain shall be thrown out; Their stench shall rise from their corpses,
And the mountains shall be melted with their blood.
8 For it is the day of the LORD’s vengeance, The year of recompense for the cause of Zion.
9 Its streams shall be turned into pitch, And its dust into brimstone;
Its land shall become burning pitch.
10 It shall not be quenched<3518> night or day; Its smoke shall ascend into eon/`owlam<5769>.
From generation<1755> to generation<1755> it shall lie waste;
No one shall pass through it forever<5331> and ever<5331>.

Since Revelation appears to be covenantle, perhaps the "beast" is symbolizing something concerning the "OC" of Moses? Just throwing that out there.....

Act 15:5
5 and there rose up certain of those of the sect of the Pharisees who believed, saying -- 'It behoveth to circumcise them, to command them also to keep the law of Moses.'
10 now, therefore, why do ye try the God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

Revelation 14:11
And the Smoke of the tormenting<929> of THEM into Ages of Ages is ascending.
And not they are having rest Day and Night the Ones worshiping the Beast
eiV <1519> aiwnaV <165> aiwnwn <165>

Revelation 19:3
and a second time They have declared "Hallelujah
and the Smoke of HER is ascending into the Ages of the Ages"
eiV touV aiwnaV twn <3588> aiwnwn <165>

Why else would the NC Saints be singing the Song of Moses?

Revelation 15:3
and they sing the song of Moses, servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, 'Great and wonderful are Thy works, O Lord God, the Almighty, righteous and true are Thy ways, O King of saints,

Is the GREAT CITY in Revelation symbolizing the LAKE OF FIRE?

Is the great City in Revelation symbolizing the LoF?

Yes

No

Maybe

It is OC Jerusalem 70ad

That is ridiculous and absurb

Other

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

Well-Known Member

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

ImJustMe

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

Similar threads