Speaking in tongues -- revisited -- your thoughts?

In agreement with statements made in this video?

  • Total agreement

    Votes: 4 19.0%
  • Agreement for the most part

    Votes: 10 47.6%
  • Agree with a few points made

    Votes: 4 19.0%
  • Not in agreement

    Votes: 3 14.3%

  • Total voters
    21

rockytopva

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Whether speaking in tongues or not....

Is this of God?

I think a lot of people have the Holy Spirit confused with their own personal ego, which the Apostle Paul claims just a little of makes the whole bad. Before the Holy Spirit can come in the ego has got to be done away with!
 
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rockytopva

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Whether speaking in tongues or not....

Is this of God?

I think a lot of people have the Holy Spirit confused with their own personal ego, which the Apostle Paul claims just a little of makes the whole bad. Before the Holy Spirit can come in the ego has got to be done away with!

7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:
8 Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:
12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into. - 1 Peter

The Holy Spirit also brings a joy to the experience, and a minister speaking under the unction of the Holy Ghost will be a joy to listen to, and the ears will not weary of listening to such a man. Such fruit validates the experience.

As a Pentecostal I don't mind the tongues, but the power behind the language is much better and the more desirable.
 
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Don Maurer

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Which does not seem to be a good "sign" for any claim to apostolic successorship. Bummers. :sigh:
Apologetic Warrior, I was just reading and noted your comment. Of course when you speak, I listen. You are always worth listening to.

The statement you made above has solid biblical support and I would like to articulate the scriptural support. I dunno if you had all this in mind. It is biblically proper to connect the "sign" of tongues to apostleship. Tongues is a sign gift pointing at the special revelation of the apostles.

Heb 1:2 says "hath at the end of these days spoken unto us in his Son," Notice the context, in Heb 1:1 the OT special revelation of the prophets is mentioned, and then the NT revelation of Christ is mentioned in verse 2. The Chapter 2 picks up this same theme of revelation. In 2:3 the writer says "which having at the first been spoken through the Lord, was confirmed unto us by them that heard;" Christ first spoke the New Covenant revelation, the ones who heard were the apostles. They either recorded the Gospels and Epistles of the New Testament, or they were the sources of the writers (see Acts 1:2 even as they delivered them unto us, who from the beginning were eyewitnesses and ministers of the word,)

In Hebrews 2:4 we read "God also bearing witness with them, both by signs and wonders, and by manifold powers, and by gifts of the Holy Spirit, according to his own will." The apostles were to be marked by signs. Of course Acts talks about tongues, healings, and various signs during the apostolic age. One of the peculiar sign in acts is tongues. Tongues seems to function as a marker of the expansion of the revelatory activity of the apostles. Every time that Tongues is mentioned in Acts, there is an apostles present. The times tongues were spoken in Acts is as follows....
* Acts 2 Obviously the 12 were present, little need for discussion.
* Acts 8:14-17 Now when the apostles that were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John: who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Spirit: for as yet it was fallen upon none of them: only they had been baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.
This passage is interesting about tongues because Philip shows signs, but there is no receiving of the HS until the apostles arrive from Jerusalem. Only then is the sign of tongues given to the new believers. The flood gates of apostolic special revelation is now opened up to the Samaritans.
* Acts 10 of course has the Apostle Peter and the family of Cornelius. The flood gates are opened up the the Gentiles of Apostolic special revelation ministry of the HS of God. One might notice that the family of Cornelius is not the first Gentile salvation. That would of course be the Ethiopian Eunuch. However, the is no record of the Ethiopian Eunuch meeting an apostle, and of course no record of him receiving the HS of God. If the Ethiopian Eunuch has spoken in tongues, it would be the best place to scripturally blow what I am saying out of the water, but its not there. Cornelius is the expansion of the NT apostolic revelation to the Gentiles.
* The last reference in Acts to tongues is Acts 19 and the 12 disciples of John at Corinth. They never spoke in tongues or received the gift of the HS until they meet an apostle, Paul. Here the NT word of the Apostles goes to the diaspora.
---- This includes the NT apostolic word of God to all groups, Jews in Jerusalem (Acts 2), Samaritans (Acts 8), Gentiles (Acts 10), and Jews of the diaspora (Acts 19). All of this advances in the revelatory activity was with the sign of tongues, and always a revelatory apostle was present.

In 2 Cor 12:12 Paul states... "Truly the signs of an apostle were wrought among you in all patience, by signs and wonders and mighty works." Paul speaks of "signs" related to his apostolic ministry.

I would say the key text is this one, due to the fact that it is a direct statement on the purpose of tongues. It is a purpose clause.... 1 Cor 14:22 "Wherefore tongues are for a sign," Tongues are for a sign. I am not saying that there is not some sort of edification that took place among believers, but the purpose of tongues is for a sign. This verse even states that the sign is not for believers... "not to them that believe, but to the unbelieving:"

Conclusion--- Tongues is a sign to unbelievers that apostolic special revelation in taking place. This leaves people like John Piper in a catch 22. Either he has to ignore the biblical purpose of tongues, or deny sola scriptura. I think you are totally right when you connected the "sign" of tongues to apostolic succession When another book of the bible is added to the book of Revelation by an apostle, or apostolic successor, then there should be tongues.
 
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Alithis

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For me, speaking in tongues was done by the Apostles to spread the Gospel to all nations, where, they could hear it in their very own 'Language'.

What we hear today is babbling. I don't believe it is from God.
this and the 3 who agreed with your statement - makes 4 people who are "unbelievers "
and ignore that there are diverse KINDS of tongues .

everything is possible to those who believe
ask and it shall be given
-i see no foot note saying "this excludes tongues ".

it is by the holy Spirit within a person that they can speak in tongues.
Every believer in whom the Holy Spirit can speak in tongues .. not every believer believes that so they don't .they have often been taught otherwise and they have believed that instead of taking god at his word .
AND NO -- speaking in tongues is NOT a validation .some people think they can live as THEY will ,watch game of thrones on a week day and speak in tongues on a Sunday and they are all good to go .THIS is a GREAT deception .
and yes ,some people can rattle out tongues yet NOT be living in obedience to God nor have his love flowing through him . their tongues is just like a stick rattling in an empty tin can .
probably what you refer to as babble.
but since tongues is a mater of the harts by the spirit it cant be judged by the sound it makes when it comes out the mouth. that is a carnal minded judgment to begin with .

and then comes the greatest test for those who teach againt tongues ..

do they do ANY of the other gifts of the holy SPIRIT
do they live in obedience to JESUS themselves ?
this is of notable interest

Of the majority of people who say .." prophecy is better" ,they themselves DO not prophecy -or when they do they speak from their imaginations and not by the Holy Spirit .
nor do they go and heal the sick
Nor do they speak the gospel to people without respect of persons
Nor cast out devils
Nor baptize people
nor teach new disciples to do the same
 
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Alithis

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this and the 3 who agreed with your statement - makes 4 people who are "unbelievers "
and ignore that there are diverse KINDS of tongues .

everything is possible to those who believe
ask and it shall be given
-i see no foot note saying "this excludes tongues ".

it is by the holy Spirit within a person that they can speak in tongues.
Every believer in whom the Holy Spirit can speak in tongues .. not every believer believes that so they don't .they have often been taught otherwise and they have believed that instead of taking god at his word .
AND NO -- speaking in tongues is NOT a validation .some people think they can live as THEY will ,watch game of thrones on a week day and speak in tongues on a Sunday and they are all good to go .THIS is a GREAT deception .
and yes ,some people can rattle out tongues yet NOT be living in obedience to God nor have his love flowing through him . their tongues is just like a stick rattling in an empty tin can .
probably what you refer to as babble.
but since tongues is a mater of the harts by the spirit it cant be judged by the sound it makes when it comes out the mouth. that is a carnal minded judgment to begin with .

and then comes the greatest test for those who teach againt tongues ..

do they do ANY of the other gifts of the holy SPIRIT
do they live in obedience to JESUS themselves ?
this is of notable interest

Of the majority of people who say .." prophecy is better" ,they themselves DO not prophecy -or when they do they speak from their imaginations and not by the Holy Spirit .
nor do they go and heal the sick
Nor do they speak the gospel to people without respect of persons
Nor cast out devils
Nor baptize people
nor teach new disciples to do the same
to add -there is a MAJOR ERROR in the video clip ...a common one .

paul later stated there are diverse kinds of tongues

he also said that he that prays in an unknown tongue edifies himself .. praying is not done on street corners for men to see .it s a private matter . so "praying in tongues is not about being a language for other nationalities to understand .

he also said that he speaks on tongues more then all of them but we know the languages of the places he traveled to and they spoke hebrew aramaic and greek .(and he was a roman citizen) languages paul could already speak WITHOUT the holy Spirit . so he is not talking about that kind of tongues either .
the video misses out SO much of the over all topic in favor or ONE PREFERRED stance.
why people grab a you tube clip and base their faith on it is because they are to spiritually lazy to spend time in prayer in the holy Ghost and the scripture .

i'm astounded new many people get a verse for the day from an app or read a single chapter (bit cut out of scripture ) and consider that a study of the scriptures ..

and yes .. the strange manifestations in the clip .. are nothing to do with the topic of tongues -they are merging two complete different issues .
thise are demons manifesting . we have seen this often and cast them out when it occurs . these peole are being taught that it is the holy spirit doing that to them .it is not of course .it is devils inside them and the people around them are untaught untrained in how to deal with it and have believed a lie about it .
 
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brinny

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The devil can deceive. He is a master at it. Beware I would say. May God protect everyone.
The devil can deceive.
Indeed he can, and he does.

Even to appearing as an angel of light.

Discernment is sorely needed.

Satan knows how easily man is enamored, and he will use whatever means necessary to deceive, including man, becoming enamored with anything but the living God.

It then becomes idolatry, as that very thing that's enamored becomes an idol.
 
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Apologetic Warrior, I was just reading and noted your comment. Of course when you speak, I listen. You are always worth listening to.

The statement you made above has solid biblical support and I would like to articulate the scriptural support. I dunno if you had all this in mind. It is biblically proper to connect the "sign" of tongues to apostleship. Tongues is a sign gift pointing at the special revelation of the apostles.

Heb 1:2 says "hath at the end of these days spoken unto us in his Son," Notice the context, in Heb 1:1 the OT special revelation of the prophets is mentioned, and then the NT revelation of Christ is mentioned in verse 2. The Chapter 2 picks up this same theme of revelation. In 2:3 the writer says "which having at the first been spoken through the Lord, was confirmed unto us by them that heard;" Christ first spoke the New Covenant revelation, the ones who heard were the apostles. They either recorded the Gospels and Epistles of the New Testament, or they were the sources of the writers (see Acts 1:2 even as they delivered them unto us, who from the beginning were eyewitnesses and ministers of the word,)

In Hebrews 2:4 we read "God also bearing witness with them, both by signs and wonders, and by manifold powers, and by gifts of the Holy Spirit, according to his own will." The apostles were to be marked by signs. Of course Acts talks about tongues, healings, and various signs during the apostolic age. One of the peculiar sign in acts is tongues. Tongues seems to function as a marker of the expansion of the revelatory activity of the apostles. Every time that Tongues is mentioned in Acts, there is an apostles present. The times tongues were spoken in Acts is as follows....
* Acts 2 Obviously the 12 were present, little need for discussion.
* Acts 8:14-17 Now when the apostles that were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John: who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Spirit: for as yet it was fallen upon none of them: only they had been baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.
This passage is interesting about tongues because Philip shows signs, but there is no receiving of the HS until the apostles arrive from Jerusalem. Only then is the sign of tongues given to the new believers. The flood gates of apostolic special revelation is now opened up to the Samaritans.
* Acts 10 of course has the Apostle Peter and the family of Cornelius. The flood gates are opened up the the Gentiles of Apostolic special revelation ministry of the HS of God. One might notice that the family of Cornelius is not the first Gentile salvation. That would of course be the Ethiopian Eunuch. However, the is no record of the Ethiopian Eunuch meeting an apostle, and of course no record of him receiving the HS of God. If the Ethiopian Eunuch has spoken in tongues, it would be the best place to scripturally blow what I am saying out of the water, but its not there. Cornelius is the expansion of the NT apostolic revelation to the Gentiles.
* The last reference in Acts to tongues is Acts 19 and the 12 disciples of John at Corinth. They never spoke in tongues or received the gift of the HS until they meet an apostle, Paul. Here the NT word of the Apostles goes to the diaspora.
---- This includes the NT apostolic word of God to all groups, Jews in Jerusalem (Acts 2), Samaritans (Acts 8), Gentiles (Acts 10), and Jews of the diaspora (Acts 19). All of this advances in the revelatory activity was with the sign of tongues, and always a revelatory apostle was present.

In 2 Cor 12:12 Paul states... "Truly the signs of an apostle were wrought among you in all patience, by signs and wonders and mighty works." Paul speaks of "signs" related to his apostolic ministry.

I would say the key text is this one, due to the fact that it is a direct statement on the purpose of tongues. It is a purpose clause.... 1 Cor 14:22 "Wherefore tongues are for a sign," Tongues are for a sign. I am not saying that there is not some sort of edification that took place among believers, but the purpose of tongues is for a sign. This verse even states that the sign is not for believers... "not to them that believe, but to the unbelieving:"

Conclusion--- Tongues is a sign to unbelievers that apostolic special revelation in taking place. This leaves people like John Piper in a catch 22. Either he has to ignore the biblical purpose of tongues, or deny sola scriptura. I think you are totally right when you connected the "sign" of tongues to apostolic succession When another book of the bible is added to the book of Revelation by an apostle, or apostolic successor, then there should be tongues.

Thank you brother Don for bringing this to my remembrance (and teaching me a little history). Gotta love the Piper though, even if we have a disagreement or three with him. Sometimes I am thankful for inconsistencies in others, otherwise I might forget what should be engraved on my mind, but the whirlwinds of day to day life, take me for spin from time to time, distraction abounds, thankfully God is sovereign over the storms of life. I see His providential care, in your response to me!
 
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Dan the deacon

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To me it is more than a peeve. It is a serious problem and is why the "church" is in the state it is in with building full of the un-discerning and biblical illiterates.
Sounds like you are attending the wrong church.
 
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Saint Steven

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There's a whole lot of disinformation on this topic. (against tongues) The Apostle Paul said it best.

1 Corinthians 12:1
Now about the gifts of the Spirit, brothers and sisters, I do not want you to be uninformed.
 
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rockytopva

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Paul did regularly speak in tongues...

I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all: - I Cor 14:18

But he saw no profit in speaking them in church...

Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue. - 1 Corinthians 14:19

And he ends his discourse...

Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.- 1 Corinthians 14:39
 
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Saint Steven

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Paul did regularly speak in tongues...

I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all: - I Cor 14:18

But he saw no profit in speaking them in church...

Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue. - 1 Corinthians 14:19

And he ends his discourse...

Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.- 1 Corinthians 14:39
Right, "... forbid not to speak with tongues."
But what is the thrust of this topic?
 
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Saint Steven

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Paul did regularly speak in tongues... But he saw no profit in speaking them in church...
That is short sighted. The Apostle made it clear that tongues was equal to prophecy if there was interpretation.

1 Corinthians 14:5
I would like every one of you to speak in tongues, but I would rather have you prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues, unless someone interprets, so that the church may be edified.
 
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rockytopva

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There is provision for tongues...

17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. - Mark 16

Notice... The signs are for those who believe... And not for any specific group or age.
 
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tdidymas

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Whether speaking in tongues or not....

Is this of God?

I think a lot of people have the Holy Spirit confused with their own personal ego, which the Apostle Paul claims just a little of makes the whole bad. Before the Holy Spirit can come in the ego has got to be done away with!
An inflated ego is due to the sinful nature. Someone with an inflated ego is not able to do away with it without the power of the Holy Spirit working in him. Therefore, the Holy Spirit must come in before the inflated ego can be done away with. Humility is a fruit of the Spirit, which overlaps all the fruits listed in Gal. 5:22.
TD:)
 
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tdidymas

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There is provision for tongues...

17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. - Mark 16

Notice... The signs are for those who believe... And not for any specific group or age.
1 Cor. 14:22 says that tongues are for unbelievers.
TD:)
 
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2Timothy2:15

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Exactly.

The lack of discernment continues to floor me.

The enamoration of ANYTHING but the living God is prominent.

Listen closely to WHAT is being spoken of.

It's me-me-me.

With a pronounced absence of anything having to do with the living God.


me-me-me = humanism = satanism
 
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