Faith Plus Works

Tree of Life

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God does not force anything upon us. We willingly cooperate with the drawing of God when we came to the faith and we cooperate with the drawing of God in the continuation of our faith. It's synergistic. It's a relationship. We are not mindless robots doing God's bidding; Nor do we have a safety net to continue with a mindset that we can sin and still be saved, either.

Your response is a non-sequitur that has totally failed to grasp the substance of my post.
 
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Tree of Life

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One cannot be justified through anything other than faith in the works of Jesus Christ. After justification, the works of God's Spirit must be present within Christians.

Man's works mean nothing towards salvation.

I love to read this. I'm a bit perplexed to see this coming from a Catholic. Are you sure that this is the Catholic position?
 
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Halbhh

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I love to read this. I'm a bit perplexed to see this coming from a Catholic. Are you sure that this is the Catholic position?
It's aligning to the Catholic Catechism as best I understood the sections on Justification and Merit. All is from Grace, from God, and not of our own accomplishment without Him. (this was encouraging to see, though the best form is still ever the way Christ instructs us, especially in time John chapter 15, something I'm unsure of the Catholic position on; do they realize how crucial it is to specifically remain in His words (from the 4 gospels) as a primary (first, root) act of being Christian?)
 
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@Jason0047

Here's a line from the famous hymn: "The Sands of Time Are Sinking"

"O I am my Beloved's, And my Beloved's mine!
He brings a poor vile sinner into his house of wine.
I stand upon his merit, I know no other stand,
Not e'en where glory dwelleth, in Immanuel's land."

Could you sing this hymn? It sounds to me like you stand upon both Christ's merit and your own.
 
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I love to read this. I'm a bit perplexed to see this coming from a Catholic. Are you sure that this is the Catholic position?
Works are very important in a Catholic's life but only God knows the value of our works. What may appear to be good from a worldly standpoint may be selfish in nature. These cannot originate from God's Holy Spirit. We are called to pray and ask the Spirit for guidance so that we are led by God to become better children.
 
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Seems, this is Legalism 2.0 or Judaizers 2.0, ie requiring Christians to do the works of the Holy Spirit of God or works of the Law/commandments/Word of God, in order to be saved from hell = a doctrine of demons(1TOMOTHY.4:1).?

Paul was arguing against "Law Alone Salvationism" (that did not include God's grace) because people were trying to be circumcised (that was a part of the Law of Moses that is no more) in order to be saved. In other words, Paul was arguing against "Circumcision Salvationism." Take for example the verse you quote below in Galatians 2. You left out the context in what Paul was referring to. He was referring to this:

3 "But neither Titus, who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised:
4 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage" (Galatians 2:3-4).​

Again, in Galatians, Paul says this:

"Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing." (Galatians 5:2).​

In Romans, Paul says this:

"What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?" (Romans 3:1).​

At the Jerusalem counsel they address the problem of "Circumcision Salvationism" and in going back to the Law of Moses to be saved.

“And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.” (Acts of the Apostles 15:1).

“But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.” (Acts of the Apostles 15:5).

“Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment” (Acts of the Apostles 15:24).​

For when a person says that a person cannot be saved unless they are circumcised, they are making the Law and not grace as a means of their initial and ultimate salvation. They are also going back to a Law within the Old Covenant that is no more, as well.

Paul is not against obedience to the Moral Law as part of our salvation. He says those who do such things like murder, adultery, drunkenness, etc., they will not inherit the Kingdom of God (Galatians 5:19-21, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10).

Paul says in 1 Timothy 6:3-4 that if any person speaks contrary to the words of Jesus Christ and the doctrine according to godliness, they are proud, and they know nothing. James 4:6 says God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble.

Most sin and still be saved type believers speak against the words of Jesus in Matthew 5:28-30, Matthew 6:15, and Matthew 25:31-46. They say Jesus did not really mean to say that your whole body will be cast into hell fire if you look upon a woman in lust. They say that Jesus did not really mean to say that if you do not forgive, you will not be forgiven by the Father. They will say that Jesus did not really mean to say that if you don't help the poor, you will be cast into everlasting fire. Yet, Paul says any person who speaks contrary to the words of Jesus is proud and they know nothing. Paul also says if a person speaks contrary to the doctrine according to godliness, they are proud and they know nothing. A sin and still be saved type belief is a violation of upholding basic morality or the goodness of God and no godly living or godliness (in one's life) is even possible. How can it be? When you tell others they are saved by God's grace + nothing else (implying that "sin" is in this category of "nothing else"), then you are telling people they can sin while be under God's grace with the thinking they are saved (Whether you want that to happen or not).

As for your mention of 1 Timothy 4:1:

What is the context of these false believers.

3 "Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer." (1 Timothy 4:3-5).​

I can think of believers today who fit this mold, and that would not be the non-denominational believers who believe in the Bible's teaching on Conditional Security.

Actually, 2 Timothy 3:1-9 describes to me those kinds of believers who take sin too lightly because they have a "Belief Alone on Jesus + Nothing" for salvation. It says that they have a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof. They deny the power in overcoming sin. For we are told to put ye on the Lord Jesus and not fulfill the lusts of the flesh (See Romans 13:14). They that are Christ's have crucified the affections and lusts (Galatians 5:24). Peter says that the person who has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin (See 1 Peter 4:1), and the Peter says that we should not live the rest of our time (here on Earth obviously) to the lusts of the flesh, but we should live to the will of God (See 1 Peter 4:2). These are all verses that you have to deny God's power in. For God has power to help us to overcome sin. For we are told in 2 Corinthians 7:1 to cleanse yourselves from ALL filthiness of the flesh, perfecting holiness in the fear of God. Paul is telling us to do that here and now while we are alive and not while we are dead!!!

You said:
Specifically, which saves you from hell, your faith in Jesus Christ or your works in Jesus Christ(= works in the Word/Law/Spirit of God).?

2 Thessalonians 2:13 says that it is both!

"...God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:" (2 Thessalonians 2:13).​

It says here very plainly that God has from the beginning chosen you to salvation through two things.

(a) Sanctification of the Spirit (includes God working in you to live holy),
(b) Belief of the Truth (Which is Jesus because Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life - See John 14:6).​

BTW ~ The context is talking about works, too.

"That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness." (2 Thessalonians 2:12).

16 "Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace,
17 Comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every good word and work." (2 Thessalonians 2:16-17).​

You said:
It's good for Christians to be doing the works of the Spirit/Christ/God but such works are not a "must" for salvation,

Jesus disagrees with you.

Jesus says, "if you will enter into life, keep the commandments" (See Matthew 19:17). If you were to read the end of Matthew 19, the point was not so that we cannot keep God's laws, but the chapter concludes with the point about how we are to forsake things in our life as a part of eternal life. I mean, why do you think Jesus said to Zacchaeus that salvation has come to his house when he gave away half of his goods? (See Luke 19:1-10).

Even the end of Revelation says this:

14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie." (Revelation 22:14-15).​

You said:
especially for some Gentile Christians(cf; ACTS.15:24-29),

Read Acts of the Apostles 15:24 again.
It is talking about "Circumcision Salvationism" and going back to the Law of Moses for salvation and it is not talking about obeying the commands of Jesus Christ and His followers that come from the pages of the New Testament.

You said:
eg those who suffer from mental disorders, substance/drug abuse(addiction - LEV.10:9), ancestral sins(EXODUS.20:5), the physically disabled, etc.

I am not really sure what you are trying to say here. Are you saying they are all exempt from obeying God's laws?

You said:
GALATIANS.2 15 We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, 16 knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.

Paul is saying that we are not justified by the works of the Law of Moses and by Law Alone because he was trying to refute "Circumcision Salvationism" just a few verses up (See again Galatians 2:3-4). Paul is not talking about the commands of Jesus. If he was talking against the commands of Jesus, then he would disqualify himself by his own words later in 1 Timothy 6:3-4.

You said:
17 “But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is Christ therefore a minister of sin? Certainly not!

You cannot believe that this is talking about the continued walk or life of a Christian here. Again, the context is talking about "Circumcision Salvationism." They believed you had to first be circumcised in order to be saved as the basis or grounds of your faith. Paul is saying you first need to accept Jesus and believe on Him for salvation instead. That is why a person is found as a sinner. They are found as a sinner when they first come to Jesus. They are not found as a sinner after they repent and forsake their evil ways.

Paul does not say he is a continued sinner but he talks about how Christ lives in him and he lives by the faith of the Son of God.

"I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, " (Galatians 2:20).​

Paul lives by the faith of the Son of God.
Meaning....Jesus's teachings that are a part of the faith!!!!

You said:
GALATIANS 3
3 O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed among you as crucified? 2 This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh? 4 Have you suffered so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain?
5 Therefore He who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you, does He do it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?— 6 just as Abraham “believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” 7 Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham. 8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.” 9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham.
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.” 11 But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for “the just shall live by faith.” 12 Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them.”
13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”), 14 that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Again, why is Paul saying this? Context is important. If you were to skip back again to Galatians 2:3-4, you would see that he is saying this in regards to those who thought they had to be circumcised in order to be saved. This is the context of Galatians 3:1-14. The works of the Law is talking about the Law of Moses and trying to be justified by Law Alone by "Circumcision Salvationism" here. Paul does not say if you seek to be justified by obeying the Moral Law after coming to Jesus, Christ will profit you nothing. On the contrary, Paul says in Romans 8:13,

"For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live." (Romans 8:13).​

You said:
1CORINTHIANS 5:4-5 4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when you are gathered together, along with my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

The "Day of the Lord Jesus" (in 1 Corinthians 5:5) is the.... "Day of Salvation" that is in the here and now.

"For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation." (2 Corinthians 6:2).

7 "To day if ye will hear his voice,
8 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:" (Hebrews 3:7-8).

"But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin." (Hebrews 3:13).

"Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God." (Hebrews 3:12).​

The destruction of the flesh is the destruction of the sinful nature so as to get a believer to stop sinning and to repent or confess their sins to the Lord for forgiveness or salvation. We see a similar thing again in Scripture:

"Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme." (1 Timothy 1:20).

The idea here is that Humenaeus and Alexander were delivered unto Satan so that they may learn not to blaspheme. They were to be corrected so as to destroy this sinful thing within their life. This does not mean that a believer can sin and still be saved. God is not going to chastise those who have a wrong attitude towards sin to begin with. God only chastises those he knows will are able to take the correction.

For example: A master can correct his dog on pooping on the carpet by lightly smacking his nose and yelling at him. This is a form of chastisement so as to get the animal to stop in it's wrong behavior. However, if the master were to do this form of correction with him knowing that his dog cannot help but to poop on his carpet because his dog has an uncontrollable pooping problem (because he is sick), then the master would be in the wrong for doing that and his chastisement would not make any sense.

You want me to believe that believers go through chastisement and yet they are never truly corrected because they will always sin in this life as per the OSAS interpretation on 1 John 1:8.

You said:
John 3:16-18 - 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

It is not a coincidence that you stopped at verse 18. For if you were to keep reading, it refutes the idea that believers can sin and still be saved. In John 3:19-21 is the mention of the "Condemnation."

19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God."
(John 3:19-21).​

Here we see in verse 19 that the "Condemnation" is defined as: That the light (Jesus) came into the world and yet men loved their darkness (sin) rather than they loved the light (Jesus). Verse 20 says all who do evil hate the light (Jesus) and do not come to light (Jesus) unless their evil deeds are reproved. Verse 21 says that he that does truth comes to the light and his deeds are wrought in God.
 
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@Jason0047

Here's a line from the famous hymn: "The Sands of Time Are Sinking"

"O I am my Beloved's, And my Beloved's mine!
He brings a poor vile sinner into his house of win.
I stand upon his merit, I know no other stand,
Not e'en where glory dwelleth, in Immanuel's land."

Could you sing this hymn? It sounds to me like you stand upon both Christ's merit and your own.

First, while hymns can be nice to give praise and glory to God, they are not Scripture. Second, I believe Christ does the good work in me and that I can do nothing without Him (See John 15:5). So no. I stand upon Christ in both Justification and in Sanctification. If salvation did not depend on anything you did, then you must believe that a believer can be an axe murdering rapist and still be saved by just having a belief on Jesus. Surely you do not believe axe murdering rapists who believe on Jesus would be saved, would you?

Please take note that I have talked with Eternal Security Proponents who do believe that a believer can be saved even while they commit the most vile of sins. Let me ask you a question. Was David saved while he committed his sins of adultery and murder? Yes, or no?
 
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Fyi, JAMES was the Father of Judaizerism.

As the "biological" brother of Jesus Christ, he had likely usurped the position of Bishop of Jerusalem from apostle Peter. Apostle Peter was chosen by God/Jesus as the apostle to the Jews, and yet he was not the Bishop of Jerusalem.

Personally, I take the teachings of JAMES with a pinch of salt because the book of James seek to be saved by the works of the Law, the same as the teachings of the Judaizers.

All Scripture is given by inspiration of God (See 2 Timothy 3:16-17).
Besides, even if you were to eliminate the book of James, you still run into the same problem with others in the Bible, like: Jesus, Peter, and John; For they taught that we are saved by not only God's grace, but by allowing the good work of the Lord to flow through our lives.

Jesus said, if you will enter into life, keep the commandments (Matthew 19:17).
So Jesus appeared to teach salvation by works (that follows God's grace).
John says if you hate your brother, you are like a murderer and no eternal life abides in you (See 1 John 3:15).
So John appeared to teach salvation by works (that follows God's grace).
Paul said,
"There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." (Romans 8:1).
So Paul appeared that we are saved by works (that follows God's grace) in the fact that he said that there is no Condemnation to those who WALK not after the flesh (sin), but who walk after the Spirit. This is confirmed even more by Romans 8:13.
 
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Not David

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Fyi, JAMES was the Father of Judaizerism.

As the "biological" brother of Jesus Christ, he had likely usurped the position of Bishop of Jerusalem from apostle Peter. Apostle Peter was chosen by God/Jesus as the apostle to the Jews, and yet he was not the Bishop of Jerusalem.

Personally, I take the teachings of JAMES with a pinch of salt because the book of James seek to be saved by the works of the Law, the same as the teachings of the Judaizers.
I didn't know you have the power to decide the canon of Scripture.
 
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I didn't know you have the power to decide the canon of Scripture.

Agreed. Besides, are there even any Bibles out there that remove the book of James? If there are Bibles that do that, I don't think it is in the majority of available Bibles that we have.

I mean, a person either accepts the all of the Holy Bible or they don't. A person cannot pick out what parts of the Bible they don't like; If they were to do so, that is a blatant form of cheating - IMO.

BTW ~ Thanks for the likes.
Blessings to you in the Lord.
 
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Men will go to great lengths to deny the book of James to defend the popular belief in the churches of our day.
They will either:

(a) Throw it out the book altogether - Saying it is an epistle of straw.
(b) Say that the book was addressed to Messianic Jews who are under a different gospel or dispensation than Gentiles.
(c) Say that James was not referring to salvation with the word "justified" in regards to works in James 2:24.​

I am sure there are other reasons, but these are the ones I can recall hearing about before.
 
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Fyi, JAMES was the Father of Judaizerism.

As the "biological" brother of Jesus Christ, he had likely usurped the position of Bishop of Jerusalem from apostle Peter. Apostle Peter was chosen by God/Jesus as the apostle to the Jews, and yet he was not the Bishop of Jerusalem.

Personally, I take the teachings of JAMES with a pinch of salt because the book of James seek to be saved by the works of the Law, the same as the teachings of the Judaizers.

Also, James was present at the Jerusalem counsel and he was condemning "Circumcision Salvationism" and in going back to keeping the whole of the Old Testament Law of Moses to be saved (See Acts of the Apostles 15:13-24, with a special focus on verse 13 and verse 24; Acts of the Apostles 15:13, Acts of the Apostles 15:24).
 
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The point in Jesus saying this is to reveal the true demands of the Law precisely because we cannot keep them. The sermon on the mount shows us how deep God's commands go and exposes our sin at the deepest level. We need the grace and the righteousness of Christ because our own righteousness is stained with sin.

That's not the point of the Sermon on the Mount.
Please show me the exact verse that shows how Jesus said or hinted that the Sermon on the Mount was all a point that we cannot keep the commands He gave us?

It would not make any sense for the Lord to go into such great detail to just later throw all that stuff in the garbage can. From my perspective, it seems like you are rejecting the Sermon on the Mount outright or wholesale because of some other outside preconceived belief. No actual verse undoes what Jesus was teaching us on the Sermon on the Mount.

Jesus says if you do not forgive, you will not be forgiven by the Father.
Where in Scripture does it say that this is later changed?

Jesus says if you look upon a woman in lust, your whole body could be cast into hell fire. Again, where in Scripture does it say that is is later changed?

You said:
You cannot be a saved person and at the same time rely on the saving power of your own righteous works. You need to repent of this damnable heresy!

The fact that you just said something like this and offered me no actual verses to back up what you are saying here shows the weakness of your argument. Just telling me to repent and say what I believe is a damnable heresy does not mean anything. You actually have to show Scripture to prove your case instead of acting like you have any kind of authority over me.
 
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First, while hymns can be nice to give praise and glory to God, they are not Scripture. Second, I believe Christ does the good work in me and that I can do nothing without Him (See John 15:5). So no. I stand upon Christ in both Justification and in Sanctification.

I'm not suggesting that hymns are Scripture. I was just wondering if you could sing that hymn with a clear conscience.

If salvation did not depend on anything you did, then you must believe that a believer can be an axe murdering rapist and still be saved by just having a belief on Jesus. Surely you do not believe axe murdering rapists who believe on Jesus would be saved, would you?

I believe that Jesus can save and forgive axe murdering rapists, yes.

Please take note that I have talked with Eternal Security Proponents who do believe that a believer can be saved even while they commit the most vile of sins. Let me ask you a question. Was David saved while he committed his sins of adultery and murder? Yes, or no?

Yes he was.
 
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That's not the point of the Sermon on the Mount.
Please show me the exact verse that shows how Jesus said or hinted that the Sermon on the Mount was all a point that we cannot keep the commands He gave us?

Matthew 5:3 - “Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 5:20 - For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 5:48 - You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

It would not make any sense for the Lord to go into such great detail to just later throw all that stuff in the garbage can. From my perspective, it seems like you are rejecting the Sermon on the Mount outright or wholesale because of some other outside preconceived belief. No actual verse undoes what Jesus was teaching us on the Sermon on the Mount.

You don't understand the purpose of God's Law. Jesus in the Sermon on the Mount is giving a full exegesis of the 10 commandments and showing how they not only govern outward behavior but also the inclinations of the heart.

Paul teaches elsewhere that the purpose of the law is to reveal sin and that the law has no power to save sinners. (Romans 7:13-14, Romans 8:3, Romans 11:32, Galatians 3:21-22). Jesus teaches the same thing (Luke 18:9-14).

Jesus is not laying out commands in the Sermon on the Mount in order to show us the way to salvation. Rather, he is fully unfolding the Law in order to more fully reveal our sin so that we might trust in Christ as our Redeemer - the only perfect one who is able to keep God's Law. Of course, the Sermon on the Mount also serves as a perfect guide for our lives and teaches us how to live righteously. But this is not in order to gain salvation, rather this is direction for living for those who are already saved by grace.
 
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discipler7

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discipler7 said:
Fyi, JAMES was the Father of Judaizerism.

As the "biological" brother of Jesus Christ, he had likely usurped the position of Bishop of Jerusalem from apostle Peter. Apostle Peter was chosen by God/Jesus as the apostle to the Jews, and yet he was not the Bishop of Jerusalem.
Personally, I take the teachings of JAMES with a pinch of salt because the book of James seek to be saved by the works of the Law, the same as the teachings of the Judaizers.
I didn't know you have the power to decide the canon of Scripture.
Did I say that the book of JAMES should be removed from the canon of Scripture.? ...

2TIMOTHY.3:16-17 = 16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

Besides JAMES, Scripture also mention the Judaizers, Judas Iscariot, Simon the magician, scribes and Pharisees, Jezebel, King Saul, Balaam, the Nicolaitans, Jannes and Jambres, Satan and other misguided characters. Should Christians also heed their teachings and doctrine.?
 
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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
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In all your hemming and hawing you didn't answer my question.

If that is what you consider my detailed responses with Scripture, then that is your call to say that. However, I think discussing Scripture with intelligence and respect is more than that what you are describing here. It seems like again you argument is too weak, so you have to use slightly insulting words towards me to uplift your position for your belief.

You said:
Do you believe that any works that you do measure up to God's perfect standard of loving the Lord and loving your neighbor?

Paul says if any man loves not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be accursed (See 1 Corinthians 16:22).

Jesus says if you love me, keep my commandments (John 14:15).
So we love God by keeping His commands.
If not, Paul says if any man loves not the Lord Jesus, let him be accursed.
So yes. We have to love the Lord as the way the Bible or Jesus tells us to love Him. If not, there are consequences obviously. For how can somebody hate God and or not love Him and yet be saved? It makes no sense.

We also have to love our neighbor as a part of salvation, too.
In the Parable of the Good Samaritan we learn that our neighbor (that we are to love) is the poor and down trodden (See Luke 10:25-37). In Matthew 25:31-46, we learn that if we do not help the poor, we can be cast into everlasting fire.
 
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Did I say that the book of JAMES should be removed from the canon of Scripture.? ...

2TIMOTHY.3:16-17 = 16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

Besides JAMES, Scripture also mention the Judaizers, Judas Iscariot, Simon the magician, scribes and Pharisees, Jezebel, King Saul, Balaam, the Nicolaitans, Jannes and Jambres, Satan and other misguided characters. Should Christians also heed their teachings and doctrine.?

All books in the Bible are written by saved men of God.
 
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If that is what you consider my detailed responses with Scripture, then that is your call to say that. However, I think discussing Scripture with intelligence and respect is more than that what you are describing here. It seems like again you argument is too weak, so you have to use slightly insulting words towards me to uplift your position for your belief.

Paul says if any man loves not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be accursed (See 1 Corinthians 16:22).

Jesus says if you love me, keep my commandments (John 14:15).
So we love God by keeping His commands.
If not, Paul says if any man loves not the Lord Jesus, let him be accursed.
So yes. We have to love the Lord as the way the Bible or Jesus tells us to love Him. If not, there are consequences obviously. For how can somebody hate God and or not love Him and yet be saved? It makes no sense.

We also have to love our neighbor as a part of salvation, too.
In the Parable of the Good Samaritan we learn that our neighbor (that we are to love) is the poor and down trodden (See Luke 10:25-37). In Matthew 25:31-46, we learn that if we do not help the poor, we can be cast into everlasting fire.

You're still not answering my question.

I'm not asking: "Must we love God and neighbor in order to be saved?"

I'm asking: "Do you believe that you have loved God and neighbor well enough to measure up to God's standard for these things?" Remember that God's standard is perfect love. Jesus taught: "You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly father is perfect." (Matthew 5:48)
 
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