Five Different Kinds of Tongues

Oscarr said:

But, I know that under the New Covenant I am not obligated to follow the Jewish Sabbath and I don't have to observe any particular day as a holy day.

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There is no such thing as a JEWISH Sabbath. Gentiles are now grafted in to God's ISRAEL and Jesus says that God's 4th Commandment SABBATH was made for mankind (Romans 11:16-27; Mark 2:27)

Oscarr said:

My Scriptural authority is in the book of Galatians: "But now that you know God, or rather are known by God, how is it that you are turning back to those weak and worthless principles? Do you wish to be enslaved by them all over again? You are observing special days and months and seasons and years! I fear for you, that my efforts for you may have been in vain.…" (Galatians 4:9-11).

What Paul is saying here that observing special holy days, whether they be the Jewish Sabbath or Sunday, is turning back to weak and worthless principles. In effect, observing any special holy day is departing from the gospel of Christ and those who do, Christ is of no value to them.

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In the days of JESUS, PAUL and the APOSTLES the OLD TESTAMENT scriptures were their bible. Let's look at GALATIANS 4:9-11 comparing the OLD TESTAMENT scriptures with the NEW TESTAMENT scriptures and see what PAUL is referring to here. Check them out..

GALATIONS 4:4-11 [4], But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, [5], To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons. [6], And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. [7], Therefore you are no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ. [8], But then, when you knew not God, you did service unto them which by nature are no gods. [9], But now, after you have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn you again to the weak and beggarly elements, to which you desire again to be in bondage? [10], You observe days, and months, and times, and years. [11], I am afraid for you, lest I have bestowed upon you labor in vain.

GALATIONS 4:8 [8] Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.[9] But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? [10] YE OBSERVE DAYS, AND MONTHS, AND TIMES, AND YEARS. [11] I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.

Galatians 4 says nothing about sabbaths. Its speaking of those who observe times.

DEUTERONOMY 18:9 [9] When thou art come into the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations.[10] There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, OR AN OBSERVER OF TIMES, or an enchanter, or a witch,[11] Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.

The same thing goes on to this very day. Its speaking of the occult. Those who observe certain days by use of horoscopes?

2 CHRONICLES 33:3 [3] For he built again the high places which Hezekiah his father had broken down, and he reared up altars for Baalim, and made groves, and worshipped all the host of heaven, and served them.[4] Also he built altars in the house of the LORD, whereof the LORD had said, In Jerusalem shall my name be for ever.[5] And he built altars for all the host of heaven in the two courts of the house of the LORD.[6] And he caused his children to pass through the fire in the valley of the son of Hinnom: ALSO HE OBSERVED TIMES, and used enchantments, and used witchcraft, and dealt with a familiar spirit, and with wizards: he wrought much evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger

Enchantments, witchcraft, familiar spirits, and wizards. Its speaking of the occult. Not following sabbath days.

LEVITICUS 19:26 [26] Ye shall not eat any thing with the blood: neither shall ye use enchantment, NOR OBSERVE TIMES.[27] Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard.[28] Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the LORD.[29] Do not prostitute thy daughter, to cause her to be a harlot; lest the land fall to whoredom, and the land become full of wickedness.[30] YE SHALL KEEP MY SABBATHS, and reverence my sanctuary: I am the LORD.

I guess this scripture says it all. You shall not observe times BUT you will keep my sabbaths.
See what PAUL is talking about here?

Oscarr said:

So you are saying that those who do not observe the Jewish Sabbath will not enter into heaven, while Paul is saying that observing it is a weak and worthless principle. So who is right here? You or Paul?

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The last two posts answer this question very clearly with God's WORD.

Hope this helps.

Oscarr said:

Did you know that Jesus, as the sinless Son of God, has kept the Law for us when we couldn't? If keeping the Law was vitally important for salvation, then the Law had to be kept right from young childhood through to death without one single fault. Who of us has achieved that? None of us. Therefore we have all transgressed the Law and therefore are all guilty. There is none righteous, no not one, and all are condemned to death.

But Jesus not only kept the Law for us, but He paid the price for us not keeping it, so because we have faith in Christ's substitutionary sacrifice for us, God has made us righteous through His grace through faith.

The Law has been kept already. Jesus kept it for us. Therefore through faith in Him we are no longer obligated because out debt to the Law has already been paid.

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Oscar did you read the earlier post? You may have missed this section. Re-posted with the scriptures...

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"We are only saved by GRACE through faith it is a gift of God and not of works lest any man should boast (Ephesians 2:8). Grace however is for the fruit of OBEDIENCE to God's LAW by faith *ROMANS 1:5; ROMANS 16:26. FAITH does not abolish God's LAW it ESTABLISHES God's LAW (Romans 3:31). LOVE is the fulfilling and establsihing of GOD's LAW in those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD (Romans 13:8-14; Romans 3:31)."

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If you do not have the FRUIT of OBEDIENCE to God's LAW then you are still in your sins and have not been Born again and need to seek Jesus in repentance, confession and forgiveness (Proverbs 28:13; 1 John 1:9; 1 John 3:3-10) or your tree will be cut down and thrown into the fire *MATTHEW 7:19.

Alternatively you may be living up to all the WORD of GOD they has been revealed to you and it is now time God is revealing more of his WORD to you so you can grow in grace * 2 PETER 3:18

If you do not have the FRUIT of OBEDIENCE by FAITH it will not save you because it is written the devils believe but do not follow (James 2:18-20). This is why Jesus days if you LOVE me keep my commandments (John 14:15)

Once someone receives a KNOWLEDGE of the truth God now expects us to repent and follow him. If we do not then we are no longer following him who calls us in LOVE to LOVE another. What soever is not of faith becomes sin, and no one who CONTINUES in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN will enter into God's KINGDOM * HEBREWS 10:26-27.

Hope this is helpful

LoveGodsWord said:

Oscar did you read the earlier post? You may have missed this section. Re-posted with the scriptures...

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"We are only saved by GRACE through faith it is a gift of God and not of works lest any man should boast (Ephesians 2:8). Grace however is for the fruit of OBEDIENCE to God's LAW by faith *ROMANS 1:5; ROMANS 16:26. FAITH does not abolish God's LAW it ESTABLISHES God's LAW (Romans 3:31). LOVE is the fulfilling and establsihing of GOD's LAW in those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD (Romans 13:8-14; Romans 3:31)."

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If you do not have the FRUIT of OBEDIENCE to God's LAW then you are still in your sins and have not been Born again and need to seek Jesus in repentance, confession and forgiveness (Proverbs 28:13; 1 John 1:9; 1 John 3:3-10) or your tree will be cut down and thrown into the fire *MATTHEW 7:19.

Alternatively you may be living up to all the WORD of GOD they has been revealed to you and it is now time God is revealing more of his WORD to you so you can grow in grace * 2 PETER 3:18

If you do not have the FRUIT of OBEDIENCE by FAITH it will not save you because it is written the devils believe but do not follow (James 2:18-20). This is why Jesus days if you LOVE me keep my commandments (John 14:15)

Once someone receives a KNOWLEDGE of the truth God now expects us to repent and follow him. If we do not then we are no longer following him who calls us in LOVE to LOVE another. What soever is not of faith becomes sin, and no one who CONTINUES in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN will enter into God's KINGDOM * HEBREWS 10:26-27.

Hope this is helpful

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But the sticking point here is that you may be implying that those who do not keep the Saturday Sabbath are engaging in unrepentant sin and therefore are not saved.

My argument is that Jesus kept the Law and the requirement to observe the Saturday Sabbath for us, because He is the only sinless Person who could. Then as our Substitute, He took our inability to keep the Law (sin) on Himself on the cross. He was punished for our not being able to keep the Law. Because we were debtors to the Law, and Jesus paid the whole debt, because He is a complete Saviour and not a partial one, we have no further obligation to the Law. Jesus has paid it all.

This is why Paul says that observing holy days is a worthless principle. It has no further moral value to God. Only faith in Christ's finished work on Calvary has moral value with God. That is my point.

Saint Steven said:

This is not a topic to debate whether tongues are for today.

The purpose of this topic is to explore the different kinds of tongues.
If you have other kinds to add to the list, you are welcome to share.
This list of five are the basic ones that I know about.

I have seen many uniformed comments about tongues on the forum.
Many have the idea that there is only one kind of tongues.
This topic is intended to inform those with a limited understanding of this subject.

Five Different Kinds of Tongues
1) Personal prayer language - Speaking to/with God
2) Intercessory prayer language - Praying for others in the Spirit
3) Prophetic prayer language - Addressing the whole church/preferably with interpretation
4) Singing in the Spirit - Singing in tongues/worship activity
5) Evangelistic language - Speaking the message of God to a people in their own language (not yours)
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Scriptural Support

> Personal prayer language - Speaking to/with God

Romans 8:26
In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans.

> Intercessory prayer language - Praying for others in the Spirit

Ephesians 6:18
And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the Lord’s people.

> Prophetic prayer language - Addressing the whole church/preferably with interpretation

1 Corinthians 14:5
I would like every one of you to speak in tongues, but I would rather have you prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues, unless someone interprets, so that the church may be edified.

> Singing in the Spirit - Singing in tongues/worship activity

1 Corinthians 14:15
So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my understanding; I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my understanding.

> Evangelistic language - Speaking the message of God to a people in their own language (not yours)

No scriptural example for this except the outpouring at Pentecost.
But some have made the valid point that the tongues spoken were not evangelistic, but rather praise and worship. The final effect of it was evangelistic, but not the tongues themselves. And I don't personally accept the interpretive hearing theory.

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I have no problem with anything here. I would only point out that this stuff comes down from heaven into the heart. And it is not human ego..

1 Corinthians 5:6
Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?

Just a little ego makes the whole bad!

Saint Steven said:

This is not a topic to debate whether tongues are for today.

The purpose of this topic is to explore the different kinds of tongues.
If you have other kinds to add to the list, you are welcome to share.
This list of five are the basic ones that I know about.

I have seen many uniformed comments about tongues on the forum.
Many have the idea that there is only one kind of tongues.
This topic is intended to inform those with a limited understanding of this subject.

Five Different Kinds of Tongues
1) Personal prayer language - Speaking to/with God
2) Intercessory prayer language - Praying for others in the Spirit
3) Prophetic prayer language - Addressing the whole church/preferably with interpretation
4) Singing in the Spirit - Singing in tongues/worship activity
5) Evangelistic language - Speaking the message of God to a people in their own language (not yours)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Scriptural Support

> Personal prayer language - Speaking to/with God

Romans 8:26
In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans.

> Intercessory prayer language - Praying for others in the Spirit

Ephesians 6:18
And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the Lord’s people.

> Prophetic prayer language - Addressing the whole church/preferably with interpretation

1 Corinthians 14:5
I would like every one of you to speak in tongues, but I would rather have you prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues, unless someone interprets, so that the church may be edified.

> Singing in the Spirit - Singing in tongues/worship activity

1 Corinthians 14:15
So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my understanding; I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my understanding.

> Evangelistic language - Speaking the message of God to a people in their own language (not yours)

No scriptural example for this except the outpouring at Pentecost.
But some have made the valid point that the tongues spoken were not evangelistic, but rather praise and worship. The final effect of it was evangelistic, but not the tongues themselves. And I don't personally accept the interpretive hearing theory.

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I know that I am a bit responsible for taking the topic of the thread away from your OP, but our good friend from the SDA church did say that the gifts of the Spirit are not manifest because of unrepented sin, and he specified it by people not keeping the Saturday Sabbath. I just couldn't help debating with him on it. Hope you don't mind.

I have written a couple of articles on tongues - one is the use of strong tongues for intercession, and the other is about various tongues. The latter article is in line with what you wrote in your OP, so we are both on the same page there.

Oscarr said:

But the sticking point here is that you may be implying that those who do not keep the Saturday Sabbath are engaging in unrepentant sin and therefore are not saved.

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Well Oscar that is not true. It seems you have either not read the posts sent to you or you like telling half the story. I refer to you post # 56 linked and post # 59 linked.

Oscarr said:

My argument is that Jesus kept the Law and the requirement to observe the Saturday Sabbath for us, because He is the only sinless Person who could. Then as our Substitute, He took our inability to keep the Law (sin) on Himself on the cross. He was punished for our not being able to keep the Law. Because we were debtors to the Law, and Jesus paid the whole debt, because He is a complete Saviour and not a partial one, we have no further obligation to the Law. Jesus has paid it all.

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You seem a bit mixed up here. Jesus came to save us from sin. He did not die on the cross so that we can continue to live a life of sin *JOHN 8:31-36; Romans 3:31; Romans 13:8-10; Hebrews 8:10-12.

Oscarr said:

This is why Paul says that observing holy days is a worthless principle. It has no further moral value to God. Only faith in Christ's finished work on Calvary has moral value with God. That is my point.

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Here you are getting the the shadows from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT mixed up with God's eternal laws that give us a KNOWLEDGE of what sin is and lead us to the CROSS that we might be forgiven by faith.

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We are only saved by GRACE through faith it is a gift of God and not of works lest any man should boast (Ephesians 2:8). Grace however is for the fruit of OBEDIENCE to God's LAW by faith *ROMANS 1:5; ROMANS 16:26. FAITH does not abolish God's LAW it ESTABLISHES God's LAW (Romans 3:31). LOVE is the fulfilling and establsihing of GOD's LAW in those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD (Romans 13:8-14; Romans 3:31).

............

If you do not have the FRUIT of OBEDIENCE to God's LAW then you are still in your sins and have not been Born again and need to seek Jesus in repentance, confession and forgiveness (Proverbs 28:13; 1 John 1:9; 1 John 3:3-10) or your tree will be cut down and thrown into the fire *MATTHEW 7:19.

Alternatively you may be living up to all the WORD of GOD they has been revealed to you and it is now time God is revealing more of his WORD to you so you can grow in grace * 2 PETER 3:18

If you do not have the FRUIT of OBEDIENCE by FAITH it will not save you because it is written the devils believe but do not follow (James 2:18-20). This is why Jesus days if you LOVE me keep my commandments (John 14:15)

Once someone receives a KNOWLEDGE of the truth God now expects us to repent and follow him. If we do not then we are no longer following him who calls us in LOVE to LOVE another. What soever is not of faith becomes sin, and no one who CONTINUES in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN will enter into God's KINGDOM * HEBREWS 10:26-27.

............

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

In times of ignorance God winks at but now calls all men everywhere to REPENT for the KINGDOM of HEAVEN is at HAND (Acts 17:30-31)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

For me I see this discussion as being on topic. God's Word teaches [as demonstrated already] that none receive God's Spirit while living a life in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN.

Only God's WORD is true and we should believe and follow it over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God *MATTHEW 15:3-9

Hope this helps

Oscarr said:

I know that I am a bit responsible for taking the topic of the thread away from your OP, but our good friend from the SDA church did say that the gifts of the Spirit are not manifest because of unrepented sin, and he specified it by people not keeping the Saturday Sabbath. I just couldn't help debating with him on it. Hope you don't mind.

I have written a couple of articles on tongues - one is the use of strong tongues for intercession, and the other is about various tongues. The latter article is in line with what you wrote in your OP, so we are both on the same page there.

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Oscar and what have you proven in your posts? That have not been responded to with God's WORD? You have not responded to a single post sent you with the scriptures in them that disagree with you?

This is only sent in all respect and only as a help. You do not need to respond if you do not wish to Oscar. Maybe you can pray about it further at home. After all your salvation is between you and God as we all only answer to God come judgment day. At this time many will be disappointed.

LoveGodsWord said:

Oscar and what have you proven in your posts? That have not been responded to with God's WORD? You have not responded to a single post sent you with the scriptures in them that disagree with you?

This is only sent in all respect and only as a help. You do not need to respond if you do not wish to Oscar. Maybe you can pray about it further at home. After all your salvation is between you and God as we all only answer to God come judgment day. At this time many will be disappointed.

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you might to do a bit more study on what Christ's substitutionary sacrifice is all about. It seems that you think that the sacrifice of Jesus for us was only a partial substitution instead of a full one - that Jesus only paid part of the debt instead of the full debt.

Oscarr said:

you might to do a bit more study on what Christ's substitutionary sacrifice is all about. It seems that you think that the sacrifice of Jesus for us was only a partial substitution instead of a full one - that Jesus only paid part of the debt instead of the full debt.

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Sorry Oscar Gods word does not teach salvation in sin * HEBREWS 10:26-27. Salvation is from sin * JOHN 8:31-36; HEBREWS 8:10-12; ROMANS 13:8-10; ROMANS 3:31. It is not a license to sin * HEBREWS 6:4-8. Those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN will die in their sins because they have rejected the GIFT of God's dear son * ROMANS 6:23

LoveGodsWord said:

Sorry Oscar Gods word does not teach salvation in sin * HEBREWS 10:26-27. Salvation is from sin * JOHN 8:31-36; HEBREWS 8:10-12; ROMANS 13:8-10; ROMANS 3:31. It is not a license to sin * HEBREWS 6:4-8. Those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN will die because they have rejected the GIFT of God's dear son * ROMANS 6:23

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So, just for clarity, how do you define unrepentant sin exactly?

Oscarr said:

So, just for clarity, how do you define unrepentant sin exactly?

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Sin that is not repented of that you know is sin that you continue to practice. *ROMANS 7:7; ROMANS 3:20; JAMES 2:8-11; 1 JOHN 3:4

LoveGodsWord said:

Sin that is not repented of that you know is sin that you continue to practice. *ROMANS 7:7; ROMANS 3:20; JAMES 2:8-11; 1 JOHN 3:4

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But I don't have any unrepentant sin, so now what?

Oscarr said:

But I don't have any unrepentant sin, so now what?

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God has 10 Commandments that if broken show sin (Romans 7:7; Romans 3:20; 1 John 3:4). God's LAW that he wrote on the tables of stone hold 10 Commandments Not 9 or 613 (see Exodus 34:28; Deuteronomy 4:12; 10:4). If we break any one of the 10 Commandments we stand guilty before God of sin *JAMES 2:8-11. If you have unrepentant sin in your life God knows. This is between you and God. Those who continue in KNOWN UNREPENTANT sin will not enter into God's KINGDOM (Hebrews 10:26-27). Many will be dissappointed come judgment day.

LoveGodsWord said:

God has 10 Commandments that if broken show sin. Not 9 or 613 (see Exodus 34:28; Deuteronomy 4:12; 10:4). If we break any one of the 10 Commandments we stand guilty before God of sin *JAMES 2:8-11. If you have unrepentant sin in your life I do not know. This is between you and God.

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You are correct about breaking any one of the 10 Commandments. There is also the moral law connected with it that Moses listed in Exodus and Deuteronomy. They also apply. A person is guilty of breaking the whole Law if they have broken just one in their whole life time since the age of accountability, around 7 years old. That includes all of us. We are all equally guilty under the Law, and as the Scripture in Romans say, "There is none righteous, no, not one."

That means that you are I are equally guilty under the Law and therefore according to the Law we are both subject to judgment and condemnation. Under the Law there was no repentance as under the New Covenant. The New Covenant does not apply to anyone under the Law. Those who are living by the Law have to go to Jerusalem and offer sacrifices for sin to God on the altar at the Temple. Whoops! The Temple does not exist at present, and no other place is authorised to offer sacrifices. So, because sacrifices cannot be offered today, every person under the Law remains under condemnation because they have not been able to keep it to perfection.

Let's get right back to your original statement about the supernatural gifts not operating in many churches because of unrepentant sin. Because you now say that you don't know whose sin is unrepentant, and which churches are hindered in their manifestation of the gifts, then what basis have you for judgment in this matter?

Perhaps the only church you can evaluate is your own, because you really have no idea what goes on in other churches. Maybe your judgment concerning unrepentant sin should start at your own church before you continue on to judge other churches.

Oscarr said:

You are correct about breaking any one of the 10 Commandments. There is also the moral law connected with it that Moses listed in Exodus and Deuteronomy. They also apply. A person is guilty of breaking the whole Law if they have broken just one in their whole life time since the age of accountability, around 7 years old. That includes all of us. We are all equally guilty under the Law, and as the Scripture in Romans say, "There is none righteous, no, not one."

That means that you are I are equally guilty under the Law and therefore according to the Law we are both subject to judgment and condemnation. Under the Law there was no repentance as under the New Covenant. The New Covenant does not apply to anyone under the Law. Those who are living by the Law have to go to Jerusalem and offer sacrifices for sin to God on the altar at the Temple. Whoops! The Temple does not exist at present, and no other place is authorised to offer sacrifices. So, because sacrifices cannot be offered today, every person under the Law remains under condemnation because they have not been able to keep it to perfection.

Let's get right back to your original statement about the supernatural gifts not operating in many churches because of unrepentant sin. Because you now say that you don't know whose sin is unrepentant, and which churches are hindered in their manifestation of the gifts, then what basis have you for judgment in this matter?

Perhaps the only church you can evaluate is your own, because you really have no idea what goes on in other churches. Maybe your judgment concerning unrepentant sin should start at your own church before you continue on to judge other churches.

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OSCAR your not getting it. Gods word does not teach salvation in sin * HEBREWS 10:26-27. Salvation is from sin for Christians in the NEW COVENANT * JOHN 8:31-36; HEBREWS 8:10-12; ROMANS 13:8-10; ROMANS 3:31. It is not a license to sin * HEBREWS 6:4-8. Those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN will die because they have rejected the GIFT of God's dear son * ROMANS 6:23 and do not receive God's Spirit (Acts 2:38; 3:19).https://www.christianforums.com/bible/romans/6:23/

LoveGodsWord said:

OSCAR your not getting it. Gods word does not teach salvation in sin * HEBREWS 10:26-27. Salvation is from sin * JOHN 8:31-36; HEBREWS 8:10-12; ROMANS 13:8-10; ROMANS 3:31. It is not a license to sin * HEBREWS 6:4-8. Those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN will die because they have rejected the GIFT of God's dear son * ROMANS 6:23

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But the question remains: who do you know for sure is continuing in unrepentant sin? If you don't know of any specific examples of anyone in today's churches who are doing so, then your argument becomes totally pointless. Perhaps you have a supernatural ability to see into the hearts of people and can see whether they have unrepentant sin or not. Generalisations don't wash. If you are saying that unrepentant sin in churches is stopping the supernatural gifts of the Holy Spirit from manifesting, then you need to give specific examples, not just repeated generalisations.

Oscarr said:

But the question remains: who do you know for sure is continuing in unrepentant sin? If you don't know of any specific examples of anyone in today's churches who are doing so, then your argument becomes totally pointless. Perhaps you have a supernatural ability to see into the hearts of people and can see whether they have unrepentant sin or not. Generalisations don't wash. If you are saying that unrepentant sin in churches is stopping the supernatural gifts of the Holy Spirit from manifesting, then you need to give specific examples, not just repeated generalisations.

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You shall know them by their fruits. Those who KNOWINGLY CONTINUE to break ANY of GOD'S COMMANDMENTS do not know GOD *1 JOHN 2:1-4; 1 JOHN 3:6. This is the difference between God's people and the children of the devil. The children of the devil have a form of Godliness but deny God's power to save them from their sins *1 JOHN 3:3-10; 2 TIMOTHY 3:1-5.

LoveGodsWord said:

You shall know them by their fruits. Those who KNOWINGLY CONTINUE to break ANY of GOD'S COMMANDMENTS do not know GOD *1 JOHN 2:1-4; 1 JOHN 3:6. This is the difference between God's people and the children of the devil. The children of the devil have a form of Godliness but deny God's power to save them from their sins *1 JOHN 3:3-10; 2 TIMOTHY 3:1-5.

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This is just a generalisation. You have not provided any specific examples. Nothing you have said can be taken seriously because you are sidestepping direct questions and merely repeating the same comments over and over. Vain repetitions that don't convince anyone.

All you are accomplishing is that you are saying that those who belong to the SDA church are the children of God and those who don't are children of the devil. That is the message you are giving, whether you think so or not. Reading between the lines, it seems that you are saying that your church is the only true one, while all others are steeped in unrepentant sin.

You cannot provide any substantive facts from your own experience and that gives me the impression that you are just quoting parrot fashion what your mentors have taught you.

I have had the same experience when conversing with JWs and Mormons. They have their favorite doctrines and they also cherry pick and cobble together isolated bits of Scripture to prove their points.

Oscarr said:

This is just a generalisation. You have not provided any specific examples. Nothing you have said can be taken seriously because you are sidestepping direct questions and merely repeating the same comments over and over. Vain repetitions that don't convince anyone.

All you are accomplishing is that you are saying that those who belong to the SDA church are the children of God and those who don't are children of the devil. That is the message you are giving, whether you think so or not. Reading between the lines, it seems that you are saying that your church is the only true one, while all others are steeped in unrepentant sin.

You cannot provide any substantive facts from your own experience and that gives me the impression that you are just quoting parrot fashion what your mentors have taught you.

I have had the same experience when conversing with JWs and Mormons. They have their favorite doctrines and they also cherry pick and cobble together isolated bits of Scripture to prove their points.

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Your questions have been directly answered with God's WORD. Your argument is with God not me. I am not saying what you are saying above at all and you have already been posted the opposite. God has his people in every Church.

For me, he must increase and I must decrease. I only point all to the Word of God because it is there we find the one who loves us that we may love him. I know him and am known by him. All that he shows me I see and must show to all because I am blind. I see now through his eyes and hear now through his ears. He tells me it is those that say they see that do not see and those that say they hear that do not hear. These are they that have once known him or do not know him. Who am I that he should choose me out of the world? I am no one but he is all. If I did not believe him I would not know him. What can I do without him? He is love and now I love. I follow him now because I love him because he first loved me.

I do not judge you but His Word will judge us because they are there for all to see. All are welcome to see and hear God's Word, however many are called but few are chosen. Now the Spirit speaks expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils but His Word is promises to deliver us and it is here we must find safety. We ought to obey God rather than man. God is love and he that dwells in love dwells in God

Gods word does not teach salvation in sin * HEBREWS 10:26-27. Salvation is from sin * JOHN 8:31-36; HEBREWS 8:10-12; ROMANS 13:8-10; ROMANS 3:31. It is not a license to sin * HEBREWS 6:4-8. Those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN will die in their sins because they have rejected the GIFT of God's dear son * ROMANS 6:23. He that commits sin is a servant to sin. If the son shall make you free you shall be freee indeed *JOHN 8:31-36. Jesus says; Marvel not that I say unto you that you must be born again (John 3:7).

LoveGodsWord said:

ACTS 15 is in relation to the Shadow law of CIRCUMCISION as a requirement of salvation v1-3. ACTS 15 is not saying gentiles are now free to break the 10 commandments and there are two separate laws under the NEW COVENANT one for JEWS and one for GENTILES.

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No Acts 15 is not just about circumcision. The question the apostles considered was from the Pharisaic believers who insisted that "The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to keep the law of Moses.” The answer the apostles gave was No they didn't:

LoveGodsWord said:

Many break God's 4th commandments out of ignorance to what they have been taught since they were very young.

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The 4th commandment doesn't say the Sabbath must be observed on a Saturday. The commandment was that no one was to work on the Sabbath.


Do you keep that commandment and do absolutely no work on the Sabbath? That includes anyone who works for you. Would you switch on a light on a Saturday and in doing so employ thousands of people who work to provide the electricity?