Is the Sabbath Commandment proof that the TCs are not for Christians?

eleos1954 · Sep 8, 2018

Saint Steven said:
Are you claiming that the Ten Commandments define sin?

Some verses in the Bible about Sin and Lawlessness

1 John 3:4
Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.

Romans 3:20
Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Romans 2:13-16
(for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified; for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.

Romans 7:12
Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good.

Matthew 5:17-19
"Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 19:17
So He said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments."

Romans 6:1-2
What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?

Romans 7:14
For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Romans 3:31
Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.

Romans 4:15
because the law brings about wrath; for where there is no law there is no transgression.

Romans 6:15
What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not!

Romans 7:7
What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.”

woobadooba · Sep 8, 2018

Saint Steven said:
The question goes the other way as well.
Show me one verse where God said keeping the Sabbath day holy is for everyone.

Exodus 31:13
“Say to the Israelites, ‘You must observe my Sabbaths. This will be a sign between me and you for the generations to come, so you may know that I am the Lord, who makes you holy.

Ezekiel 20:12, 20
Also I gave them my Sabbaths as a sign between us, so they would know that I the Lord made them holy. … 20 Keep my Sabbaths holy, that they may be a sign between us. Then you will know that I am the Lord your God.”

The Israelites were a people belonging to the only nation which identified itself with sole worship of Yahweh (God), at that time. This point needs to be put into consideration while reading the verses you have quoted.

Furthermore, it is helpful to go deeper in your research.

First century Christians would disagree with your conclusion about Sabbath observance only being for the Jews: "The earliest Christians did not reject Judaism, but were convinced that their faith was the fulfilment of the Messiah whom Jews over the ages had been anticipating. For this reason, Christianity in Jerusalem continued to keep the Sabbath and attend worship at the Temple. To this they added the observance of the first day of the week, in which they gathered to break bread in celebration of the resurrection of Jesus." (The Story of Christianity by Justo L. Gonzalez, The Church in Jerusalem, pg. 27)

You are taking things out of context in order to support a presupposition that doesn't line up with the Scriptures you are referring to. You will not get at the intended meaning of any text by doing this. You need to keep Scripture in its historical and cultural contexts to interpret it correctly. That means you will sometimes have to refer to other sources than the Bible to get at the root meaning of certain passages of the Bible.

Guide To The Bible · Sep 8, 2018

Saint Steven said:
Expected to try our best? How do you measure that?

Could you have tried harder? (of course) Was that enough to save you? (probably not) How hard do you have to try? (who could say?) Did you try hard enough? (how much is enough?)

I use a ruler: Jesus
You don't need to concern yourself with measuring how well you do because Jesus will do that for you. We can just concentrate on doing our best in the mean time.

woobadooba · Sep 8, 2018

Guide To The Bible said:
I use a ruler: Jesus
You don't need to concern yourself with measuring how well you do because Jesus will do that for you. We can just concentrate on doing our best in the mean time.

There is no command for us to do our best but to walk even as Jesus walked.

“He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.”
(1 John 2:6, New King James Version)

Notice the word "abides". Where else do we see that word in context to John's thought?

“As the Father loved Me, I also have loved you; abide in My love. If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.”
(John 15:9–10, New King James Version)

Jesus was speaking of abiding in His love within the context of keeping God's commandments.

Now let's return to the First Epistle of John.

“Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him.”
(1 John 2:3–5 New King James Version)

See also...

“Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him. By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.”
(1 John 5:1–3, New King James Version)

Indeed, John had a lot to say about keeping God's commandments...

“Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.”
(Revelation 14:12, New King James Version)

But most Christians these days hate on God's commandments. They push a message of disobedience to God, and look for validation in the opinions of men for justification of their false views about God.

Jesus gave a warning about such people...

“Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. Matt. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.”
(Matthew 5:17–20, New King James Version)

“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, “Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, “I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’”
(Matthew 7:21–23, New King James Version)

“My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. Because you have rejected knowledge, I also will reject you from being priest for Me; Because you have forgotten the law of your God, I also will forget your children.”
(Hosea 4:6, New King James Version)

Guide To The Bible · Sep 8, 2018

woobadooba said:
There is no command for us to do our best but to walk even as Jesus walked.

“He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.”
(1 John 2:6, New King James Version)

Notice the word "abides". Where else do we see that word in context to John's thought?

“As the Father loved Me, I also have loved you; abide in My love. If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.”
(John 15:9–10, New King James Version)

Jesus was speaking of abiding in His love within the context of keeping God's commandments.

Now let's return to the First Epistle of John.

“Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him.”
(1 John 2:3–5 New King James Version)

See also...

“Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him. By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.”
(1 John 5:1–3, New King James Version)

Indeed, John had a lot to say about keeping God's commandments...

“Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.”
(Revelation 14:12, New King James Version)

But most Christians these days hate on God's commandments. They push a message of disobedience to God, and look for validation in the opinions of men for justification of their false views about God.

Jesus gave a warning about such people...

“Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. Matt. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.”
(Matthew 5:17–20, New King James Version)

“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, “Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, “I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’”
(Matthew 7:21–23, New King James Version)

“My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. Because you have rejected knowledge, I also will reject you from being priest for Me; Because you have forgotten the law of your God, I also will forget your children.”
(Hosea 4:6, New King James Version)

Hang on didn't Jesus die on the cross because no one could keep the law? That's right, no one can keep the law. So what commandments was Jesus referring to above? Well for there is this one for a start:

John 6:29
Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."

This is what gets us into heaven but this does not give us a reason to stop trying our best to keep the moral law as Paul states:

Romans 3:31
Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.

Saint Steven · Sep 8, 2018

ThatCanadianDude_88 said:
It's important to note the distinction Paul is making. He is talking about the law apart from Christ to clearly define the law's purpose. Prior to Christ, the law brought death - in that it revealed the righteousness of God and condemned the sinfulness of man, ultimately making known to Him the need for salvation from God. Yet Paul still calls it glorious - because before the righteousness of God can be produced in us, it first needs to be made known. Paul talked a lot on this topic in the NT scriptures.

But that is the main point I would say of this passage, to understand that the context is the nature of the law and its purpose. It is the tutor that leads us to Christ, and by being in Christ, we are able to fulfill the law through the ministry of the Spirit. We are totally dependant on the Lord, this is exactly why Paul tells us, "it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me." This is exactly just that, the ministry of the Spirit.

It is not to say that because the law brings death, we shouldn't have anything to do with it. The law brings death apart from Christ.

No. The law was the old covenant. We are not under the old covenant of law. The letter kills.

Serving Zion · Sep 8, 2018

Saint Steven said:
Thank you. Here's my point.

The writings of the early church happened in the same timeframe as the canonized NT writings. What do those writings indicate about the NT church of the day? Most people assume that those writings were post-NT. That they were written after the New testament was "closed". Which is a complete misunderstanding of the order of events.

One example is the Didache, also known as The Teaching of the Twelve Apostles. Dated at 50-120 AD. Here is a sampling of the text about the day of worship. (I think the subheading is a modern addition)

Chapter 14. Christian Assembly on the Lord's Day.
But every Lord's day gather yourselves together, and break bread, and give thanksgiving after having confessed your transgressions, that your sacrifice may be pure. But let no one who is at odds with his fellow come together with you, until they be reconciled, that your sacrifice may not be profaned. For this is that which was spoken by the Lord: "In every place and time offer to me a pure sacrifice; for I am a great King, says the Lord, and my name is wonderful among the nations."

I actually don't know how to answer your question. It sounds as though you are intending to teach rather than enquiring of me, so I think it is best if you go ahead and tell us what you think and let's see where that leads us

woobadooba said:
Looks like I hit a nerve. Interesting.

Show me one verse where God said keeping the Sabbath day holy is only for the Jews. You won't find one. You are reading meaning into the Bible that isn't there, and looking for validation to justify your disobedience to God's command.

Don't be easily vexed in your spirit. Brother Steven has been judged for choosing to ignore the opportunity for growth, where he has not disputed what I have quoted of Romans 9:6-8 in post #50, as showing that those who are in Christ are Israel for that purpose. This is how he has gone into a spirit of error to assume that you have said that which you didn't say (interesting you have not directly denied it though). He has wrongly believed that you are teaching that Sabbath rest has been commanded for "all humanity", which you did not say.

True Christian theology teaches that we are members of the body of Christ, who is the enduring high priest of the lineage of king David, and who is the very one that Malachi 3 describes: "He will sit and purify the sons of Levi so that they will offer sacrifices in righteousness, acceptable to God".

Saint Steven · Sep 8, 2018

Serving Zion said:
I actually don't know how to answer your question. It sounds as though you are intending to teach rather than enquiring of me, so I think it is best if you go ahead and tell us what you think and let's see where that leads us

Don't be easily vexed in your spirit. Brother Steven has been judged for choosing to ignore the opportunity for growth, where he has not disputed what I have quoted of Romans 9:6-8 in post #50, as showing that those who are in Christ are Israel for that purpose. This is how he has gone into a spirit of error to assume that you have said that which you didn't say (interesting you have not directly denied it though). He has wrongly believed that you are teaching that Sabbath rest has been commanded for "all humanity", which you did not say.

True Christian theology teaches that we are members of the body of Christ, who is the enduring high priest of the lineage of king David, and who is the very one that Malachi 3 describes: "He will sit and purify the sons of Levi so that they will offer sacrifices in righteousness, acceptable to God".

"Brother Steven has been judged for choosing to ignore the opportunity for growth..." ??? Get over yourself.

Serving Zion · Sep 8, 2018

Archippus said:
What is the importance of the phrase ''Ten Commamndmemts''?

Is it for Christians not to take the Lords name in vain?
Is it for Christians to honour their parents?
Is it for Christians not to steal?
Is it for Christians not to commit adultery?
Is it for Christians not to murder?
Is it for Christians not to bear false witness?
Is it for Christians not to covet?
Is it for Christians to have no other gods apart from their Father in Heaven?
Is it for Christians not to build graven images?

I would think that is what is important to know. The other commandment can be discussed at length elsewhere

Something within me wanted to laugh at the humour of this.. but it really isn't a laughing matter. The church has an incredibly important role that is seemingly unbeknowst to it :crosseo:

(Matthew 16:18).

The only reason a Christian would not keep the Sabbath day, is that they would rather use it for other things.. which makes the whole of their religion worthless (James 2:10).

Ezekiel 22 said:
The word of Adonai came to me saying: “Son of man, say to her: ‘You are a land that is not cleansed or rained upon in the day of indignation.’ There is a conspiracy of her prophets in her midst, like a roaring lion tearing prey. They have devoured lives, they take wealth and valuables, they multiply widows in her midst. Her kohanim have done violence to My Torah and have profaned My holy things;

(Selah)

they have made no distinction between the holy and the profane, nor have they taught the difference between the unclean and the clean. They shut their eyes to My Shabbatot. So I am profaned among them.

Her princes in her midst are like wolves tearing at prey, spilling blood and destroying lives for dishonest gain. Her prophets have plastered them with whitewash, seeing false visions and predicting lies to them, saying ‘Thus says Adonai Elohim,’ when Adonai has not spoken.

“The people of the land have oppressively blackmailed, plundered in robbery, wronged the poor and needy and abused the outsider unjustly. I searched for someone among them who would build up the wall and stand in the breach before Me for the land, so that I would not destroy it, but I found no one. Therefore I have poured out My fury on them; I have consumed them with the fire of My wrath; I have brought their own way upon their heads.” It is a declaration of Adonai.

Serving Zion · Sep 8, 2018

Saint Steven said:
"Brother Steven has been judged for choosing to ignore the opportunity for growth..." ??? Get over yourself.

If we walk in the light, we have fellowship with one another.

Archippus · Sep 8, 2018

Serving Zion said:
Something within me wanted to laugh at the humour of this.. but it really isn't a laughing matter. The church has an incredibly important role that is seemingly unbeknowst to it (Matthew 16:18).

The only reason a Christian would not keep the Sabbath day, is that they would rather use it for other things.. which makes the whole of their religion worthless (James 2:10).

The law God desires believers to follow is written in their mind and placed on their heart. That's part of the new covenant. Meaning, in your mind you instinctively know how God wants you to live and in your heart you want to live that way. As sin is the transgression of the law, if you wilfully transgress the law placed in your heart, you must be conscious you sin by doing so. I have been convicted of much sin in my life, but never once of failing to obey a set Saturday sabbath. You may laugh if you wish, the Pharisees sneered at Jesus

Serving Zion · Sep 8, 2018

Archippus said:
The law God desires believers to follow is written in their mind and placed on their heart. That's part of the new covenant. Meaning, in your mind you instinctively know how God wants you to live and in your heart you want to live that way. As sin is the transgression of the law, if you wilfully transgress the law placed in your heart, you must be conscious you sin by doing so. I have been convicted of much sin in my life, but never once of failing to obey a set Saturday sabbath. You may laugh if you wish, the Pharisees sneered at Jesus

This is true for you in this day, but it is not the way it began. It is a result of the many advances of the enemy that has turned Christianity into a laughing stock.

"My people are destroyed for the lack of knowledge. Because you have rejected knowledge, I will reject you from being priests to me, and I will forget your children" - Hosea 4:6.

Archippus · Sep 8, 2018

Serving Zion said:
This is true for you in this day, but it is not the way it began. It is a result of the many advances of the enemy that has turned Christianity into a laughing stock.

"My people are destroyed for the lack of knowledge. Because you have rejected knowledge, I will reject you from being priests to me, and I will forget your children" - Hosea 4:6.

Well there is only two possibilities. Either the fourth commandment as written is not placed in my heart and mind, or, I cannot be a Christian for as I said, I have no heartfelt conviction of sin by failing to observe a set Saturday sabbath. I would pass me by if I was you, I imagine you came on the website to discuss the bible with those you consider christians

Serving Zion · Sep 8, 2018

Archippus said:
Well there is only two possibilities. Either the fourth commandment as written is not placed in my heart and mind, or, I cannot be a Christian for as I said, I have no heartfelt conviction of sin by failing to observe a set Saturday sabbath.

John 16:8 says that it is The Holy Spirit who does the work of convicting the world of sin, and of leading us into all the knowledge of the truth, and Romans 12:2 tells us to "come out of her, my people" - become fashioned into the likeness of Christ. So, it isn't reasonable to expect that a Christian is going to instantly be made into the fullness of Christ, rather it takes time for Him to do that work by teaching us.

There is a critical difference between the Torah of God being in our heart, and the knowledge of right and wrong. Knowledge takes time to grow, whereas the Torah written on our heart is a spiritual disposition: love.

The change that happens when God puts the Torah in our heart is that we stop resisting the truth that convicts us, instead we crave to learn more and more about His ways (Proverbs 18:15).

Knowledge, OTOH, comes through daily exposure to the word of God (Matthew 4:4, Ephesians 4:15-16), and it is God's work that makes us grow (John 15:1-2).

Archippus said:
I would pass me by if I was you, I imagine you came on the website to discuss the bible with those you consider christians

That would be sad, it really would, but it does seem that you have to make a decision now as to who you will follow. You cannot serve two masters, and I have just shown you that it is The Holy Spirit who will guide you into all knowledge of the truth.

On one hand, I am showing you that God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow, that He has said "observe the Sabbath day - keep it holy, do no labour on it, either yourself, your slave or your animals".. and I have shown in post #86 how that has been subverted through the Pagan assault on Christianity through Constantine.

.. Let me know if there is anything that seems wrong to you in what I am saying, that I may be able to clarify.

Der Alte · Sep 8, 2018

Archippus said:
begin

<Arch>The law God desires believers to follow is written in their mind and placed on their heart. That's part of the new covenant. Meaning, in your mind you instinctively know how God wants you to live and in your heart you want to live that way. As sin is the transgression of the law, if you wilfully transgress the law placed in your heart, you must be conscious you sin by doing so. I have been convicted of much sin in my life, but never once of failing to obey a set Saturday sabbath. You may laugh if you wish, the Pharisees sneered at Jesus<end>

end

If I could find a verse in the NT which commands that gentile Christians obey a "set Saturday Sabbath" as it is so emphatically pushed here, I would.

Lev 24:8 Every Sabbath he shall set it in order before the LORD continually, being taken from the children of Israel by an everlasting covenant.
Exo 31:16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.

The Sabbath was given exclusively to the children of Israel. And this is how the Jews understood the scripture.

Jewish Encyclopedia - Gentiles
Resh Lakish (d. 278) said, "A Gentile observing the Sabbath deserves death" (Sanh. 58b). This refers to a Gentile who accepted the seven laws of the Noachidæ, inasmuch as "the Sabbath is a sign between God and Israel alone," ... Rabbina, ..., could not quite understand the principle underlying Resh Lakish's law, and, commenting upon it, added: "not even on Mondays [is the Gentile allowed to rest]"; intimating that the mandate given to the Noachidæ that "day and night shall not cease" ((Heb.)Lo yshabti = "have no rest ") should be taken in a literal sense (Gen. viii. 22)—probably to discourage general idleness.
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=142&letter=G

woobadooba · Sep 8, 2018

Guide To The Bible said:
Hang on didn't Jesus die on the cross because no one could keep the law? That's right, no one can keep the law. So what commandments was Jesus referring to above? Well for there is this one for a start:

You appear to be suggesting God gave commands we can't keep.

To refute such an idea, one only needs to find one statement in the Bible showing that all of God's commands were kept blamelessly.

Is there such a statement? Indeed!

"There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the division of Abijah. His wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elizabeth. And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.”
(Luke 1:5–6, New King James Version)

As for your question: Didn't Jesus die on the cross because no one could keep the law?

Jesus didn't die because nobody could keep the law, but because somebody broke the law. Get your facts straight!

“Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned—”
(Romans 5:12, New King James Version)

If you can't see the contradiction in your wording to the Scriptures and implications thereof, then you need to read more carefully.

If it were not possible to keep God's commandments, then it would be unreasonable to give them. God doesn't give commands people can't keep. Don't put limitations on God because you lack faith in His power.

“If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, you will ask what you desire, and it shall be done for you.”
(John 15:7, New King James Version)

Do you desire to live a life of obedience to God? According to Jesus, He will give you what you desire if you ask. When you are tempted to sin, ask Jesus for strength to walk in the Spirit, and you will overcome the lusts of the flesh.

“No temptation has overtaken you except such as is common to man; but God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will also make the way of escape, that you may be able to bear it.”
(1 Corinthians 10:13, New King James Version)

Der Alte · Sep 8, 2018

Serving Zion said:
....On one hand, I am showing you that God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow, that He has said "observe the Sabbath day - keep it holy, do no labour on it, either yourself, your slave or your animals".. and I have shown in post #86 how that has been subverted through the Pagan assault on Christianity through Constantine....

First please see my post #115 immediately above.
Everyone wants to blame Constantine for all kinds of things but he had nothing to with Christians worshiping on Sunday. About 150 years before Constantine. more than 910 years before the Catholic Church

Justin [A.D. 110-165.] First Apology Chapter 67
But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus
Christ our Savior on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His apostles and disciples, He taught them these things, which we have submitted to you also for your consideration

Saint Steven · Sep 8, 2018

Dkh587 said:
The Messiah, the Apostles, disciples and all the assemblies, such as the Romans, the Galatians, the Ephesians, the Corinthians were ALL Sabbath keepers.

The aforementioned did not go to church on Sunday.

Biblically, “Christians” were Sabbath keepers. Going to church on sundays and ignoring the Sabbath is based out of the Roman Catholic Church, not the Bible.

Church history disagrees with you. Not sure where you got your information.

woobadooba · Sep 8, 2018

Der Alter said:
<Arch>The law God desires believers to follow is written in their mind and placed on their heart. That's part of the new covenant. Meaning, in your mind you instinctively know how God wants you to live and in your heart you want to live that way. As sin is the transgression of the law, if you wilfully transgress the law placed in your heart, you must be conscious you sin by doing so. I have been convicted of much sin in my life, but never once of failing to obey a set Saturday sabbath. You may laugh if you wish, the Pharisees sneered at Jesus<end>
If I could find a verse in the NT which commands that gentile Christians obey a "set Saturday Sabbath" as it is so emphatically pushed here, I would.

Lev 24:8 Every Sabbath he shall set it in order before the LORD continually, being taken from the children of Israel by an everlasting covenant.
Exo 31:16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.
The Sabbath was given exclusively to the children of Israel. And this is how the Jews understood the scripture.

Jewish Encyclopedia - Gentiles
Resh Lakish (d. 278) said, "A Gentile observing the Sabbath deserves death" (Sanh. 58b). This refers to a Gentile who accepted the seven laws of the Noachidæ, inasmuch as "the Sabbath is a sign between God and Israel alone," ... Rabbina, ..., could not quite understand the principle underlying Resh Lakish's law, and, commenting upon it, added: "not even on Mondays [is the Gentile allowed to rest]"; intimating that the mandate given to the Noachidæ that "day and night shall not cease" ((Heb.)Lo yshabti = "have no rest ") should be taken in a literal sense (Gen. viii. 22)—probably to discourage general idleness.
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=142&letter=G

Why would you need to see a direct command in the NT to keep the Sabbath when the early Christians referred to OT writings for guidance?

You do realize that the NT, as we know it today, didn't exist during the time of the Apostles, right?

Paul was referring to the OT when he said, "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.”
(2 Timothy 3:16–17, New King James Version)

No direct command needed to be given to the Gentiles regarding the Sabbath because it wasn't an issue. Christians of the first century were keeping the Sabbath day holy.

"The earliest Christians did not reject Judaism, but were convinced that their faith was the fulfilment of the Messiah whom Jews over the ages had been anticipating. For this reason, Christianity in Jerusalem continued to keep the Sabbath and attend worship at the Temple. To this they added the observance of the first day of the week, in which they gathered to break bread in celebration of the resurrection of Jesus." (The Story of Christianity by Justo L. Gonzalez, The Church in Jeruslem, pg. 27)

Der Alte · Sep 8, 2018

woobadooba said:
begin

<wbdb>Why would you need to see a direct command in the NT to keep the Sabbath when the early Christians referred to OT writings for guidance?
You do realize that the NT, as we know it today, didn't exist during the time of the Apostles, right?
Paul was referring to the OT when he said, "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.”
(2 Timothy 3:16–17, New King James Version)
No direct command needed to be given to the Gentiles regarding the Sabbath because it wasn't an issue. Christians of the first century were keeping the Sabbath day holy.
"The earliest Christians did not reject Judaism, but were convinced that their faith was the fulfilment of the Messiah whom Jews over the ages had been anticipating. For this reason, Christianity in Jerusalem continued to keep the Sabbath and attend worship at the Temple. To this they added the observance of the first day of the week, in which they gathered to break bread in celebration of the resurrection of Jesus." (The Story of Christianity by Justo L. Gonzalez, The Church in Jeruslem, pg. 27)<end>

end

How does this work? You ignore my post completely, where OBTW I quoted historical evidence from the Jewish Encyclopedia, and quote some guy named Justo Gonzalez who offers zero evidence?
Please explain to me when did the gentile Christians in Rome, Corinth, Galatia, Ephesus, Philippi, Thessalonika and all the other gentile locations mentioned in the NT were given copies of or were taught Torah? You claim that "Christians of the first century were keeping the Sabbath day holy" but there is no evidence of that in the NT.
.....Yes Paul did say "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.” and he was referring to the OT since the NT did not exist at that time, to Timothy. But Timothy must have been a Jew because Paul said he knew the scriptures from childhood. But that does not explain how gentile Christians throughout the Mediterranean could have had the OT or that they were Sabbath keepers.

Is the Sabbath Commandment proof that the TCs are not for Christians?

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