Where is the Evidence of a Gap in the 70 weeks of Dan 9?

Is there a "gap" in the 70 weeks of Daniel 9"


  • Total voters
    63

keras

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy
Feb 7, 2013
13,563
2,480
82
Thames, New Zealand
Visit site
✟290,794.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
When the two Witnesses are preaching in Jerusalem, it will be during the 42 month period of control of the 'beast'. Revelation 13:5-7, Daniel 7:25, Zechariah 14:1-2
The Temple will have been desecrated by then, Daniel 9:27, Matthew 24:15 2 Thessalonians 2:4, and so God's Spirit is removed until Jesus Returns.

Obviously there will be a new Temple in Jerusalem, despite any objections from the penny stalls.
 
Upvote 0

BABerean2

Newbie
Supporter
May 21, 2014
20,614
7,484
North Carolina
✟893,665.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
The Temple will have been desecrated by then, Daniel 9:27, Matthew 24:15 2 Thessalonians 2:4, and so God's Spirit is removed until Jesus Returns.

Obviously there will be a new Temple in Jerusalem, despite any objections from the penny stalls.

"Obviously", you have twisted the scripture to make your viewpoint work in the text you provided.

There is no antecedent for an antichrist, or a "gap" of time in Daniel chapter 9.
You also ignore the fulfillment of Daniel 9:24 by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 10:16-18, and Acts of the Apostles 10:38.
This is to be expected since you have denied the fulfillment of the New Covenant found in Hebrews 8:6-13, and the New Covenant teacher in 1 John 2:27.

You ignore the parallel texts of Luke 21:20-21, and Matthew 24:15-16, and ignore John 10:22.

In 2 Thessalonians 2:4, you deny that the Church of Jesus Christ is now the temple of God.

Since the Holy Spirit is necessary for a person to enter the kingdom of God, according to the words of Christ in John 3:1-16, and we find those under the blood of the Lamb in Revelation 12:11, the Holy Spirit must be present on earth during the tribulation period.



You have rejected the pretrib removal of the Church, but continue to promote many of the other errors of modern Dispensational Theology.
Your arguments above are the same as John Nelson Darby's arguments, found in the notes of the Scofield Reference Bible.


.
 
  • Winner
Reactions: jgr
Upvote 0

keras

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy
Feb 7, 2013
13,563
2,480
82
Thames, New Zealand
Visit site
✟290,794.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
You have rejected the pretrib removal of the Church, but continue to promote many of the other errors of modern Dispensational Theology.
Your arguments above are the same as John Nelson Darby's arguments, found in the notes of the Scofield Reference Bible.
I reject any 'rapture to heaven'.
Your ranting and false accusations can be seen by everyone, as your way of avoiding proper rebuttal, as you have been proved wrong and can't refute the scriptures I point out.
 
Upvote 0

Erik Nelson

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Aug 6, 2017
5,117
1,649
46
Utah
✟347,045.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
When the two Witnesses are preaching in Jerusalem, it will be during the 42 month period of control of the 'beast'. Revelation 13:5-7, Daniel 7:25, Zechariah 14:1-2
The Temple will have been desecrated by then, Daniel 9:27, Matthew 24:15 2 Thessalonians 2:4, and so God's Spirit is removed until Jesus Returns...
excellent summary of 70 AD, clarifying that the city only fell through the Romans from, without after the temple had been already desecrated within

Josephus gives vivid depiction of how the zealots and other warning factions within the city. Desecrated the temple and covered it in blood before the Romans entered into the city.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: jgr
Upvote 0

Erik Nelson

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Aug 6, 2017
5,117
1,649
46
Utah
✟347,045.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Do you think the earthly city being described above as like "Sodom and Egypt" contains the temple of God?

Does it sound like a city in a right relationship with God?

You need to take your own advice found above...

.
Well, he saying that there is a heavenly archetype and an earthly image. When the earthly image is desecrated. God Saints. And God's presence. abandon the city. after which it is conquered.

That does sound a lot like the escape of the Christians from Jerusalem to Pella in seventy ad.
 
Upvote 0

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,492
28,587
73
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,240.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
So; do the Gentiles trample the outer court for 42 months, in heaven?
Rather obvious, isn't it that there are two Temples mentioned in Rev 11.

You really should be more careful with your posts, too hasty and far too repetitious.
It is much better to just give us the scripture reference, we can click on it to read it. It is a reasoned and logical interpretation, supported by other scriptures, that carries weight.
Actually there are 2 different Sanctuaries in Revelation, [which was inside the Temple], the one in heaven and the earthly one in 70ad.
[The word for "Temple" #2411 is never mentioned once in Revelation]

The court was outside of the Sanctuary, where the water laver and altar of sacrifice/burnt offerings were.
Even the Jews would know that.......


YLT)
Revelation 11:
2 and the Court/fold, the outside of the Sanctuary, be Casting-Out! out-side and no her thou should be measuring,


The Ark of the Covenant was in the holy of holies inside the Tabernacle

19 And opened was the Sanctuary of God in the heaven, and there was seen the Ark of His Covenant in His Sanctuary,
and there did come lightnings, and voices, and thunders, and an earthquake, and great hail.

Revelation 15:8

And is being-filled-full/repleted the Sanctuary<3485> of smoke out of the Glory of the God, and out of the power of Him.
And no-one was able to be entering into the Sanctuary until should be being finished the seven blows/stripes of the seven Messengers. [Matthew 12:29]

http://www.nsbible.org/sits_ts/v0s1.htm
The Camp--The Court--The Tabernacle--The Brazen Altar--The Laver-- The Table--The Lampstand--The Golden Altar--The Mercy Seat and Ark--The Gate--The First Veil--The Second Veil--

The Significance of These and Their Antitypes.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: joyshirley
Upvote 0

DavidPT

Well-Known Member
Sep 26, 2016
8,601
2,106
Texas
✟196,410.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
The location of the temple in Revelation 11:1 is found at the end of the chapter, and refutes you.


Rev 11:1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.

Rev 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

.


Revelation 11:1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.


You think the scene here is heaven, thus John is in heaven at the time, where he is to then rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein, in heaven?

You think the court which is without the temple, it is in heaven as well?

As to me I don't take the city nor the temple in the literal sense in this context. Verse 2 says---and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months. The fulfillment of that is in Revelation 13 for one. The holy city therefore apparently symbolizes the saints persecuted by the beast for 42 months.
 
Upvote 0

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,492
28,587
73
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,240.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
Reading the Bible with Rabbi Jesus
By: Lois Tverberg
chapter 5

trees = nations
axes = God's Wrath

ipso facto, the two Olive trees = two nations of Christians

Jews and gentiles
Interesting
Christian Jews and Christian Gentiles united into one..........
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

keras

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy
Feb 7, 2013
13,563
2,480
82
Thames, New Zealand
Visit site
✟290,794.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
one spiritual family
......of faithful, born again believers. All Christians, Jew and Gentile.
The rest of humankind, including all the apostate, God and Jesus rejecting, gay pride and arrogant Jews, will be judged and punished. Romans 1:18, Isaiah 66:15-17, Isaiah 22:14, Luke 19:27, Hebrews 10:26-27, +
 
Upvote 0

Erik Nelson

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Aug 6, 2017
5,117
1,649
46
Utah
✟347,045.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
......of faithful, born again believers. All Christians, Jew and Gentile.
The rest of humankind, including all the apostate, God and Jesus rejecting, gay pride and arrogant Jews, will be judged and punished. Romans 1:18, Isaiah 66:15-17, Isaiah 22:14, Luke 19:27, Hebrews 10:26-27, +
such does seem to be what the Scriptures say,

= fire from Heaven and Judgement as guilty unto Wrath in the Lake of Fire = Revelation 20:9+

at the present rate, mankind will make itself guilty before the LORD, thereby "justifying" the fiery destruction of planet earth
 
Upvote 0

keras

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy
Feb 7, 2013
13,563
2,480
82
Thames, New Zealand
Visit site
✟290,794.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
= fire from Heaven and Judgement as guilty unto Wrath in the Lake of Fire = Revelation 20:9+
Fire from the sky and the Lake of Fire, are two different things:
The Lord's terrible Day of wrath, will be fire from the sky, Isaiah 66:15-17, Amos 1, 2 Peter 3:7, + which is the next prophesied event we can expect. It will destroy those attackers of Israel, as described in Psalms 83.

The Lake of Fire, is where the ungodly are thrown into at the final Judgement.
 
  • Useful
Reactions: Erik Nelson
Upvote 0

DavidPT

Well-Known Member
Sep 26, 2016
8,601
2,106
Texas
✟196,410.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
When the two Witnesses are preaching in Jerusalem, it will be during the 42 month period of control of the 'beast'. Revelation 13:5-7, Daniel 7:25, Zechariah 14:1-2
The Temple will have been desecrated by then, Daniel 9:27, Matthew 24:15 2 Thessalonians 2:4, and so God's Spirit is removed until Jesus Returns.

Obviously there will be a new Temple in Jerusalem, despite any objections from the penny stalls.


I don't think you are correct about a number of things here. When the 2W prophesy, it is not during the 42 month reign of the beast. Because if it was, Revelation 13 indicates the beast makes war against the saints, and overcomes them for 42 months, yet the 2W, who also have to be saints, aren't even made war with, nor overcome by the beast, until they finish their 3.5 years first. That disagrees with Revelation 13.

The other thing I disagree with, that this will involve a new Temple in Jerusalem. You can believe that all you want, I can't stop you, yet all the believing in the world about something isn't going to magically make something that will never happen in the first place, happen.
 
Upvote 0

BABerean2

Newbie
Supporter
May 21, 2014
20,614
7,484
North Carolina
✟893,665.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I don't think you are correct about a number of things here. When the 2W prophesy, it is not during the 42 month reign of the beast. Because if it was, Revelation 13 indicates the beast makes war against the saints, and overcomes them for 42 months, yet the 2W, who also have to be saints, aren't even made war with, nor overcome by the beast, until they finish their 3.5 years first. That disagrees with Revelation 13.

It would make more sense if you could see that the book is not in chronological order.
Instead, it is a series of overlapping visions.

The end is found in Revelation 11:15-18, with the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible, and "the time of the judgment of the dead", with "reward" for some and "destruction" for others.

Chapter 12 begins with a review of Church history including the fall of Satan and the birth and death of the "man-child", who is Christ.

The Second Coming is also found at the end of chapter 6, and the "harvest" of chapter 14, and Revelation 16:15-16, and chapter 19.

.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

keras

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy
Feb 7, 2013
13,563
2,480
82
Thames, New Zealand
Visit site
✟290,794.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
I don't think you are correct about a number of things here. When the 2W prophesy, it is not during the 42 month reign of the beast. Because if it was, Revelation 13 indicates the beast makes war against the saints, and overcomes them for 42 months, yet the 2W, who also have to be saints, aren't even made war with, nor overcome by the beast, until they finish their 3.5 years first. That disagrees with Revelation 13.

The other thing I disagree with, that this will involve a new Temple in Jerusalem. You can believe that all you want, I can't stop you, yet all the believing in the world about something isn't going to magically make something that will never happen in the first place, happen.
Yes the 2W's are 'saints', but they have the power to burn up anyone who opposes them. Revelation 11:1-13 tells their story, which is plainly during the 42 months of Gentile domination of Jerusalem. This does not disagree with Rev 13.

Re a new Temple; this will- and must be built. BEFORE the Return of Jesus.
It will be there when the Anti-Christ leader of the One World Govt conquers God's holy people, Daniel 7:25, Revelation 13:7, and he sits in the holy place of the Temple, 1 Thessalonians 2:4, Matthew 24:15.
The extra 30 days, 1290 days of Daniel 12:11 refers to the time required to cleanse the Temple after Jesus Returns.
 
Upvote 0

DavidPT

Well-Known Member
Sep 26, 2016
8,601
2,106
Texas
✟196,410.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
It would make more sense if you could see that the book is not in chronological order.
Instead, it is a series of overlapping visions.

The end is found in Revelation 11:15-18, with the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible, and "the time of the judgment of the dead", with "reward" for some and "destruction" for others.

Chapter 12 begins with a review of Church history including the fall of Satan and the birth and death of the "man-child", who is Christ.

The Second Coming is also found at the end of chapter 6, and the "harvest" of chapter 14, and Revelation 16:15-16, and chapter 19.

.



Haven't I indicated to you and others in the past, that I don't see the book of Revelation chronological from start to finish to begin with? Yet it is a contradiction if the 2W testify during the 42 month reign of the beast, but that the beast does not make war against them. It is only during the 42 month reign of the beast that the saints are made war with and overcome.

Revelation 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

Obviously then, this sees it's fulfillment in Revelation 13 during the 42 month reign of the beast. The beast only reigns 42 months. The beast does not continue to wage war and overcome anyone post this 42 months. If when the 2W testify, that this runs parallel to the 42 month reign in Revelation 13, that would place this part---And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them---being fulfilled outside of this 42 months. Nowhere in Revelation 13 does it ever say the beast makes war and overcomes someone, outside of this 42 months.

Revelation 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

Revelation 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

The text indicates power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. 42 months and an extra day or two, or an extra week, or an extra month, that does not equal 42 months. That equals more than 42 months.

What I do then, which contradicts what you said of me----"It would make more sense if you could see that the book is not in chronological order."----I tend to conclude that the 2W are killed at the tail end of the 42 month reign of the beast in chapter 13, which then at that time leads to the 7th trumpet. And not that the 7th trumpet sounds first, followed then by the 42 month reign of the beast, as some tend to conclude. The 42 month reign of the beast precedes the sounding of the 7th trumpet, as does the 42 month testifying of the 2W, except like I pointed out already, these two 42 month periods don't run at the same time. IOW two 42 month periods totaling 7 years in all.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

BABerean2

Newbie
Supporter
May 21, 2014
20,614
7,484
North Carolina
✟893,665.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Haven't I indicated to you and others in the past, that I don't see the book of Revelation chronological from start to finish to begin with? Yet it is a contradiction if the 2W testify during the 42 month reign of the beast, but that the beast does not make war against them. It is only during the 42 month reign of the beast that the saints are made war with and overcome.

Revelation 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

Obviously then, this sees it's fulfillment in Revelation 13 during the 42 month reign of the beast. The beast only reigns 42 months. The beast does not continue to wage war and overcome anyone post this 42 months. If when the 2W testify, that this runs parallel to the 42 month reign in Revelation 13, that would place this part---And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them---being fulfilled outside of this 42 months. Nowhere in Revelation 13 does it ever say the beast makes war and overcomes someone, outside of this 42 months.

Revelation 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

Revelation 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

The text indicates power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. 42 months and an extra day or two, or an extra week, or an extra month, that does not equal 42 months. That equals more than 42 months.

What I do then, which contradicts what you said of me----"It would make more sense if you could see that the book is not in chronological order."----I tend to conclude that the 2W are killed at the tail end of the 42 month reign of the beast in chapter 13, which then at that time leads to the 7th trumpet. And not that the 7th trumpet sounds first, followed then by the 42 month reign of the beast, as some tend to conclude. The 42 month reign of the beast precedes the sounding of the 7th trumpet, as does the 42 month testifying of the 2W, except like I pointed out already, these two 42 month periods don't run at the same time. IOW two 42 month periods totaling 7 years in all.

Please accept my apology for not remembering that you do not believe the book is in chronological order.
I greatly appreciate that truth.


In Romans 11 Paul used the Two Olive trees as a symbol of the New Covenant Church made up of Israelite branches and Gentile branches grafted together into the same tree.

In Revelation 1:20 Christ said the candlesticks are a symbol of the churches.

In the verse below do we find two men made of wood and metal, or are they a symbol of the Church?

Rev 11:4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

.
 
Upvote 0

Erik Nelson

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Aug 6, 2017
5,117
1,649
46
Utah
✟347,045.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Fire from the sky and the Lake of Fire, are two different things:
The Lord's terrible Day of wrath, will be fire from the sky, Isaiah 66:15-17, Amos 1, 2 Peter 3:7, + which is the next prophesied event we can expect. It will destroy those attackers of Israel, as described in Psalms 83.

The Lake of Fire, is where the ungodly are thrown into at the final Judgement.
agree...

do think that one could argue that they coincide (closely) in time = Revelation 20:9

crudely stated, "fire from Heaven" turns earth into a "lake of fire"

FfH LoF.jpg
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

keras

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy
Feb 7, 2013
13,563
2,480
82
Thames, New Zealand
Visit site
✟290,794.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
agree...
do think that one could argue that they coincide (closely) in time = Revelation 20:9
crudely stated, "fire from Heaven" turns earth into a "lake of fire"
I totally disagree. Thinking that, is a contradiction of much scripture, mainly; shifting the terrible Day of the Lord's wrath by fire, the Sixth Seal; to the end of the Millennium.

As 2 Peter 3:1-7 says; the Lord judged the earth by water, this time He will do it by fire, as over 100 prophesies vividly describe.
The earth will be very badly affected by this forthcoming strike by a fiery mass, but will recover and all the things prophesied before Jesus Returns, will come to pass.
 
Upvote 0