When do the last days end?

DaDad · Sep 6, 2018

jgr said:
What recognized Jews can you cite who have endorsed J. R. Church's numerology?

If you don't want to validate or invalidate J.R. Church's "Hidden Prophecies In The Psalms" premise, then DON'T.

And when the drunk on the side of the road calls to you saying "the bridge is out", ignore him too. I'm quite sure that with the rain obscuring the windshield, there won't be any problem.

DaDad

jgr · Sep 6, 2018

keras said:
Unbelievable! Except for 4/
You show a total lack of knowing what Jesus came for and what the New Testament teaches.
Who are the Lord's chosen people? John 15:15-19, 1 Peter 2:9-10
What did Jesus say to the Jews? Matthew 21:43, Luke 19:27

ONLY those Jewish people who have accepted Jesus now, will be saved. Like everyone else.
The unbiblical nonsense of a general Jewish redemption, is just a tenet of the 'rapture to heaven' theory. Neither will happen.

Take just a minute to read a few of the previous related posts before you reply.

parousia70 · Sep 6, 2018

DaDad said:
If GOD has HIS CHOSEN PEOPLE, then HE has HIS CHOSEN PEOPLE. It doesn't matter which Century, Geography, or Flag they exist under. So the suggestion that one generation is "has ZERO relationship" to another generation is strictly YOURS. It's not GOD's.

Here is God's Definition, delivered infallibly by His had picked Apostles:

The Israelite apostles of the Jewish Messiah say I am a Jew (Rom 2:27-29), say I am "Abraham's seed" (Rom 4:16/Gal 3:29), say I am "the peculiar people, royal priesthood, holy nation" (1 Pet 2:9-10), say I am the circumcision-less Israel of God (Gal 6:15-16), say I am "no longer a stranger but a fellow citizen of Israel" (Eph 2:19), say I was once not a people but now am the people of God (1 Pet 2:10) and say I am the circumcision (Phil 3:2-3).

Each and every one of these statements takes a key identifier/distinctive of Israel and labels me with it. Meanwhile, Christ calls the disobedient genetic sons of Abraham the "sons of satan" and the "synagogue of satan" (Rev 2:9/John 8:39-47), and St. John says that those who deny the Son have no claim whatsoever to the Father (1 Jn 2:23)

You, in contrast to His apostles, say the disobedient genetic Sons of Abraham (if you could find any genetic sons of Abraham today, which you can't) are God's Chosen People.

When faced with choosing which of these two polar opposite positions to accept as true, that of the infallible apostles or that of random, fallible, 21st-century internet pontificator "DaDad", I'm going to side with the Apostles, every time.

When you choose to repent of your false teachings and instead bring them in line with those of the apostles, as I have spelled out above, I will be your staunchest champion.

parousia70 · Sep 6, 2018

DaDad said:
Ummmmm, ... perhaps Bible Prophecy is not your forte. Have you considered other "giftings"?

Holding false teachers to account for their erroneous teachings IS my calling, friend

And I'm here to hold you to account for your unsupported speculations that you are attempting to pass off as "God's Word".

DaDad · Sep 6, 2018

parousia70 said:
... When you choose to repent of your false teachings ...

Hmmmm, Israel is a nation. Seems pretty clear who's responsible. But then again, some people are NEVER satisfied with ANY evidence. -- And they call names ...

Thanks,
DaDad

parousia70 · Sep 6, 2018

DaDad said:
Hmmmm, Israel is a nation. Seems pretty clear who's responsible. But then again, some people are NEVER satisfied with ANY evidence. -- And they call names ...

Thanks,
DaDad

If you ever offer ANY evidence, you might have an argument.

Here are the facts.

Modern Israel is a Multi-Ethnic, SECULAR, Democratic, Nation state established by men.

Biblical Israel was a Hebrew Theocracy established by God.

We keep asking you to demonstrate to us ANY evidence of your claim that they are on in the same Nation, made up of the same genetic race following the Same Biblical Religion.

Until you do, we are forced to render your claim as erroneous, unfounded and UNBIBLICAL.

parousia70 · Sep 6, 2018

DaDad said:
And they call names ...

Who's calling names? I certainly haven't called anyone a name. Have you?

DaDad · Sep 6, 2018

parousia70 said:
... When you choose to repent of your false teachings ...

DaDad said:
Hmmmm, Israel is a nation. Seems pretty clear who's responsible. But then again, some people are NEVER satisfied with ANY evidence. -- And they call names ...

parousia70 said:
If you ever offer ANY evidence, you might have an argument. ...

Flag / Member state / Date of admission / See also

/ Israel / 11 May 1949 / Israel, Palestine, and the United Nations

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Member_states_of_the_United_Nations

... but this was NEVER a request for information. It was a diversion and slander against GOD and HIS Chosen People.

Genesis 12:3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

Lucy, you got some 'splainin to do.

Thanks,
DaDad

parousia70 · Sep 6, 2018

DaDad said:
It was a diversion and slander against GOD and HIS Chosen People.

Genesis 12:3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

Lucy, you got some 'splainin to do.

Thanks,
DaDad

God and His chosen people Israel are Jesus & his Jewish followers, with gentiles grafted in to that one holy nation, royal priesthood and chosen people. The rest are cut off forever. You would do well brushing up on the book of Hebrews friend.

DaDad · Sep 7, 2018

parousia70 said:
Got and His chosen people Israel are Jesus & his Jewish followers, with gentiles grafted in to that one holy nation, royal priesthood and chosen people. The rest are cut off forever. You would do well brushing up on the book of Hebrews friend.

I don't disagree that 144,000 Jews will preach Jesus. But they're JEWS, -- NOT GENTILES.

DaDad

jgr · Sep 7, 2018

DaDad said:
I don't disagree that 144,000 Jews will preach Jesus. But they're JEWS, -- NOT GENTILES.

DaDad

The Church and the 144,000

Revelation 7:3-4 describe the 144,000 as “sealed.” That description is reserved in the NT for believers in Christ – His Body and Bride – the Church:

2 Corinthians 1:21-22
Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and anointed us is God, who also sealed us and gave us the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge.

Ephesians 1:13
In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,

Ephesians 4:30
Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

The Revelation 7 passage is therefore conveying the insight that the OT Israelitish faithful saints of God are included under the NT banner of the Church. This is further confirmed by the meanings of the names of the listed tribes and substitutes (Levi and Joseph replacing Dan and Ephraim), describing spiritual qualities and experiences of those who comprise the Church:

Judah means “praise” (Gen 29:35)
Reuben means “see, a Son” (Gen 29:32)
Gad means “fortunate” (Gen 30:11)
Asher means “happy” (Gen 30:13)
Naphtali means “wrestling” (Gen 30:8)
Manasseh means “forgetting” (Gen 41:51)
Simeon means “heard” (Gen 29:33)
Levi means “attached” (Gen 29:34)
Issachar means “wages” (Gen 30:18)
Zebulon means “dwelling” (Gen 30:20)
Joseph means “He will add” (Gen 30:24)
Benjamin means “Son of the right hand” (Gen 35:17–18)

Of additional significance is the order in which the names are presented, differing from the usual presentation by order of birth. In particular, Judah appears first, in recognition of its role as the tribal progenitor of Christ, the Lion of Judah.

While rebellion and apostasy were repetitive afflictions of the OT Israelites, there were still thousands who remained faithful (1 Kings 19:18). Their number is depicted as 12, a scriptural value representing faithfulness; multiplied by 12, representing the faithful from each of the twelve tribes; multiplied by 1,000 representing the indeterminate but large number (Psalms 50:10; Psalms 91:7; Revelation 5:11) of the total faithful in Israel; thus, 144,000.

Revelation 14 continues the descriptions further reflecting the qualities and experiences of the redeemed – the Church. Absent here is any mention of tribal, ethnic, or other distinctions, thus conveying the reality of the inclusivity and oneness of the NT Church which now embraces both Israelite and Gentile. Its number can also be depicted as 12, representing faithfulness; multipled by 12 representing the 12 faithful apostles, who with the prophets comprise the foundation of the NT church, with Christ as the Chief Cornerstone (Ephesians 2:20); multiplied by 1,000 representing the indeterminate but large number of the total faithful in the NT Church; thus, also 144,000.

The NT Church's inclusivity and oneness are declared in the following:

Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Ephesians 2:14
For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall…

The 144,00 are described as celibate, meaning that as the Bride of Christ, they are not defiled by adultery with the world (James 4:4). They sing a new song of deliverance and victory. They follow Christ wherever He goes. Their residence is heavenly Jerusalem on Mount Zion. (Hebrews 12:22)

No doubt about it…the Church is written all over the 144,000

DaDad · Sep 7, 2018

jgr said:
The 144,00 are described as ...

... JEWS:

Rev. 7:4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

To All,
Please be careful you don't supplant GOD's Chosen Jews with any other demographic. YOUR blessings come from blessing the Jews.

Genesis 12:3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

Thanks,
DaDad

LittleLambofJesus · Sep 7, 2018

DaDad said:
.....
And when the drunk on the side of the road calls to you saying "the bridge is out", ignore him too. I'm quite sure that with the rain obscuring the windshield, there won't be any problem.

DaDad

Nice ..

.

keras · Sep 7, 2018

DaDad said:
... JEWS:

Rev. 7:4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

To All,
Please be careful you don't supplant GOD's Chosen Jews with any other demographic. YOUR blessings come from blessing the Jews.

Genesis 12:3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

Thanks,
DaDad

You have been seriously misled, DaDad.
For starters the Jews represent only two tribes of Israel: Judah and Benjamin, plus a few of Levi. Back when the two Houses split, many from the Northern tribes, [still in exile] did join Judah, but like any other foreigner, they became Jews too.
Now; the people who call themselves Jews have no proof of their ancestry, in fact the historical record shows that most actually do not have Israelite ancestry.

Your determination to bless the Jewish people, is commendable, but sadly misplaced. Jeremiah 14:11 says we should NOT pray for them.
It is the false 'rapture to heaven' theory, where most go wrong. The Jews are needed on earth, undergoing tribulation, while the Church sits up in heaven. All a totally erroneous idea, that will never happen.

LittleLambofJesus · Sep 7, 2018

jgr said:
The Church and the 144,000

Revelation 7:3-4 describe the 144,000 as “sealed.” That description is reserved in the NT for believers in Christ – His Body and Bride – the Church:

2 Corinthians 1:21-22
Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and anointed us is God, who also sealed us and gave us the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge.

Ephesians 1:13
In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,

Ephesians 4:30
Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

The Revelation 7 passage is therefore conveying the insight that the OT Israelitish faithful saints of God are included under the NT banner of the Church. This is further confirmed by the meanings of the names of the listed tribes and substitutes (Levi and Joseph replacing Dan and Ephraim), describing spiritual qualities and experiences of those who comprise the Church:

Judah means “praise” (Gen 29:35)

Reuben means “see, a Son” (Gen 29:32)

Gad means “fortunate” (Gen 30:11)

Asher means “happy” (Gen 30:13)

Naphtali means “wrestling” (Gen 30:8)

Manasseh means “forgetting” (Gen 41:51)

Simeon means “heard” (Gen 29:33)

Levi means “attached” (Gen 29:34)

Issachar means “wages” (Gen 30:18)

Zebulon means “dwelling” (Gen 30:20)

Joseph means “He will add” (Gen 30:24)

Benjamin means “Son of the right hand” (Gen 35:17–18)

Of additional significance is the order in which the names are presented, differing from the usual presentation by order of birth. In particular, Judah appears first, in recognition of its role as the tribal progenitor of Christ, the Lion of Judah.

While rebellion and apostasy were repetitive afflictions of the OT Israelites, there were still thousands who remained faithful (1 Kings 19:18). Their number is depicted as 12, a scriptural value representing faithfulness; multiplied by 12, representing the faithful from each of the twelve tribes; multiplied by 1,000 representing the indeterminate but large number (Psalms 50:10; Psalms 91:7; Revelation 5:11) of the total faithful in Israel; thus, 144,000.

Revelation 14 continues the descriptions further reflecting the qualities and experiences of the redeemed – the Church. Absent here is any mention of tribal, ethnic, or other distinctions, thus conveying the reality of the inclusivity and oneness of the NT Church which now embraces both Israelite and Gentile. Its number can also be depicted as 12, representing faithfulness; multipled by 12 representing the 12 faithful apostles, who with the prophets comprise the foundation of the NT church, with Christ as the Chief Cornerstone (Ephesians 2:20); multiplied by 1,000 representing the indeterminate but large number of the total faithful in the NT Church; thus, also 144,000.

The NT Church's inclusivity and oneness are declared in the following:

Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Ephesians 2:14
For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall…

The 144,00 are described as celibate, meaning that as the Bride of Christ, they are not defiled by adultery with the world (James 4:4). They sing a new song of deliverance and victory. They follow Christ wherever He goes. Their residence is heavenly Jerusalem on Mount Zion. (Hebrews 12:22)

No doubt about it…the Church is written all over the 144,000

Great post!

A person had mentioned on a site that the order of the 12 tribes actually formed a prayer.
Quote:
"The 12 tribes are not in order of the births (Judah is at the top here).Now notice what happens when the meaning of the names of the tribes are combined, in the same order, into a paragraph: (The words in italics are supplied to complete each thought.)"

1. Judah = "I will praise the Lord" 2. Reuben = "He has looked on me" 3. Gad = "Granted good fortune" 4. Asher = "Happy/Blessed am I" 5. Naphtali = "My wrestling" 6. Manasseh = "Making me to forget" 7. Simeon = "God hears me" 8. Levi = "Joined to me" 9. Issachar = "Purchased Me" 10. Zebulun =a "Dwelling" 11. Joseph = "God will add to me" 12. Benjamin = "Son of His right hand"

Benjamin was both last born and listed last in Revelation, and is the tribe the Apostle Paul is from, of the house of Judah.

http://www.herealittletherealittle.net/index.cfm?page_name=Lazarus

{Luke 16:28}"5 Brothers"
.......While the significance of this seemingly pointless detail has been neglected by scholars throughout the centuries, you can be certain that it did not escape the notice of the Pharisees and scribes to which Yeshua was speaking. They thoroughly knew their history and were extremely proud of their heritage.
Yeshua wanted those self-righteous Pharisees to know exactly who he was referring to with this parable.
This detail cements the identity of the rich man as the House of Judah, the Jews!

DaDad · Sep 7, 2018

keras said:
You have been seriously misled, DaDad.
For starters the Jews represent only two tribes of Israel ...

Rev. 7:4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

I couldn't have said it better!
DaDad

keras · Sep 7, 2018

DaDad said:
Rev. 7:4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
I couldn't have said it better!
DaDad

Who are now every faithful Christian person, from every tribe, race, nation and language. Revelation 5:9 It is just implausible and scripturally inaccurate that the Jewish people make up all the 144,000.

MyGivenNameIsKeith · Sep 7, 2018

Hazelelponi said:
I really do want to thank you for taking the time. This puts more than one point in place for me..it's like puzzle pieces finding the correct place. I actually needed this teaching and I really wanted you to know..I thank you..

It's not my word. I mean it's not as if I came up with it all by myself. The Holy Spirit.

But you're welcome.
People too often look forward to the end days, as if it will somehow be an answer to problems, be a saving etc...When you keep in mind that you would be looking forward to a lot of things, let me put in context what it would mean and why our efforts to spread the gospel are needed, rather than arguing over end days.
What the end of last days are:
Joel 2:31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.
Joel 2:32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.
The Word calls it not only great, but terrible
adding....
Zephaniah 1:14 The great day of the LORD is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even the voice of the day of the LORD: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly.
Zephaniah 1:15 That day is a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness,
also reiterating...
Amos 5:18 Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! to what end is it for you? the day of the LORD is darkness, and not light.

Scary as it may be, most of those who call upon him on that day, he will not hear, for they chose not to fear him nor listen to him any other day.
Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Scenario of people calling Jesus!!! and he says I never knew you...
The will of the Father isn't for people to look forward to Him raining his wrath and destruction on evildoers and sinners and utterly destroying the world and sending people to hell for all eternity.
Do you think God actually looks forward to that either? No. He loves every one of us. But he is a holy and righteous God. And it will come. That is why it is essential to put Him first. Out of love, not obligation.
John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

There is a difference between believing Jesus existed as a theology, as some book as some doctrine.
And trusting the Bible as the actual word of God himself, trusting that it's true and trusting and relying on Jesus as your Savior.
Real belief is the second. It's a personal relationship. It coincides with that indwelling Spirit which guides you into all truth. Unless you really believe in Him like that, you never really see the Father.

And if you struggle with spreading the word or saving souls or whatnot, keep in mind, sometimes all we are meant to do is plant the seed. Other times we are the ones watering. So don't lose hope that your small efforts are enough because they are just the right amount that God meant for that person to have. After all, if you feed a plant too much water, give it too little, etc... there is a lot at play you don't realize.

And never be afraid to spread the word of Jesus Christ. To this end, we are given a spirit of power, not a spirit of fear. The spirit of fear is not from God. Be bold.

LittleLambofJesus · Sep 7, 2018

DaDad said:
Rev. 7:4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

I couldn't have said it better!
DaDad

What is that saying to you?

parousia70 · Sep 7, 2018

DaDad said:
But they're JEWS, -- NOT GENTILES.

DaDad

Again, and pay close attention;

The Jewish Israelite apostles of the JEWISH Messiah say I AM A JEW, and I am a FELLOW CITIZEN OF THE COMMONWEALTH OF ISRAEL.

I couldn’t have said it better.

When do the last days end?

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Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow

Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow

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Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow

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Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

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Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow

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