70th Week - It Is Still Pending

DaDad · Sep 5, 2018

jgr said:
Try Daniel 10:2-3, where the weeks are also masculine plural.

NO. The 10th Chapter citation is the FEMININE Gender text. As already provided, in the ENTIRE O.T., the unusual Masculine Gender text is found ONLY in the 9th Chapter of Daniel.

jgr said:
Young/Keil/Kliefoth/Walvoord have certainly made a mess.

And again, NO. -- Walvoord did a wonderful job citing experts, which include Young, Keil & Kliefoth. It's the ignorant commentators and their gullible followers that "made a mess" when they defied the angel's instructions in 12:4 & 9:

Daniel 12:4 But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, until the time of the end. Many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase.”
9 He said, “Go your way, Daniel, for the words are shut up and sealed until the time of the end.

... and contrived a FALSE rendering by summing the seven "weeks", and the sixty-two "weeks" as though it were intended to convey "sixty-nine", in a corrupt attempt to place Jesus as the subject of the prophecy.

“... as Young points out, the word ‘sevens’ is in the masculine plural instead of the usual feminine plural. No clear explanation is given except that Young feels ‘it was for the deliberate purpose of calling attention to the fact that the word “sevens” is employed in an unusual sense.’”

“...Young finally concludes after some discussion that Keil and Kliefoth are correct when they hold that the word ‘sevens’ does not necessarily mean year-weeks, but an intentionally indefinite designation of a period of time measured by the number seven, which chronological duration must be determined on other grounds.”

John Wolvoord, Daniel, The Key to Prophetic Revelation, Moody Press, Chicago, 1971, p. 217-218

Thanks,
DaDad

jgr · Sep 6, 2018

DaDad said:
NO. The 10th Chapter citation is the FEMININE Gender text. As already provided, in the ENTIRE O.T., the unusual Masculine Gender text is found ONLY in the 9th Chapter of Daniel.

And again, NO. -- Walvoord did a wonderful job citing experts, which include Young, Keil & Kliefoth. It's the ignorant commentators and their gullible followers that "made a mess" when they defied the angel's instructions in 12:4 & 9:

Daniel 12:4 But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, until the time of the end. Many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase.”
9 He said, “Go your way, Daniel, for the words are shut up and sealed until the time of the end.

... and contrived a FALSE rendering by summing the seven "weeks", and the sixty-two "weeks" as though it were intended to convey "sixty-nine", in an corrupt attempt to place Jesus as the subject of the prophecy.

“... as Young points out, the word ‘sevens’ is in the masculine plural instead of the usual feminine plural. No clear explanation is given except that Young feels ‘it was for the deliberate purpose of calling attention to the fact that the word “sevens” is employed in an unusual sense.’”

“...Young finally concludes after some discussion that Keil and Kliefoth are correct when they hold that the word ‘sevens’ does not necessarily mean year-weeks, but an intentionally indefinite designation of a period of time measured by the number seven, which chronological duration must be determined on other grounds.”

John Wolvoord, Daniel, The Key to Prophetic Revelation, Moody Press, Chicago, 1971, p. 217-218

Thanks,
DaDad

Check here for Daniel 10.

See that little "N-mp" under the Hebrew word for weeks, "šā·ḇu·‘îm"? Place your cursor over it.

It means "Noun - masculine plural".

Note the word "masculine".

A Young/Keil/Kliefoth/Walvoord botch-up mess. Were they reading from the RSV?

DaDad · Sep 6, 2018

fgr said:
...

Once again, regarding the Daniel 9 text:

“... as Young points out, the word ‘sevens’ is in the masculine plural instead of the usual feminine plural. No clear explanation is given except that Young feels ‘it was for the deliberate purpose of calling attention to the fact that the word “sevens” is employed in an unusual sense.’”

“...Young finally concludes after some discussion that Keil and Kliefoth are correct when they hold that the word ‘sevens’ does not necessarily mean year-weeks, but an intentionally indefinite designation of a period of time measured by the number seven, which chronological duration must be determined on other grounds.”

John Wolvoord, Daniel, The Key to Prophetic Revelation, Moody Press, Chicago, 1971, p. 217-218

So who is the individual when asked to go for a ride in the inconcise ~cool~ car would grab a hat, coat, and gloves?!?
And who is the individual who would interpret the seventy inconcise "weeks" as 490 years?!?

DaDad

jgr · Sep 6, 2018

DaDad said:
Once again, regarding the Daniel 9 text:

“... as Young points out, the word ‘sevens’ is in the masculine plural instead of the usual feminine plural. No clear explanation is given except that Young feels ‘it was for the deliberate purpose of calling attention to the fact that the word “sevens” is employed in an unusual sense.’”

“...Young finally concludes after some discussion that Keil and Kliefoth are correct when they hold that the word ‘sevens’ does not necessarily mean year-weeks, but an intentionally indefinite designation of a period of time measured by the number seven, which chronological duration must be determined on other grounds.”

John Wolvoord, Daniel, The Key to Prophetic Revelation, Moody Press, Chicago, 1971, p. 217-218

So who is the individual when asked to go for a ride in the inconcise ~cool~ car would grab a hat, coat, and gloves?!?

And who is the individual who would interpret the seventy inconcise "weeks" as 490 years?!?

DaDad

I'm glad you agree that Daniel 10 contains the masculine form.

And in fact, the Hebrew word "šā·ḇu·‘îm" occurs only four times in the entire OT, all of them in Daniel 9 and 10, and all of them masculine.

The word does not appear as feminine anywhere in the OT.

A Young/Keil/Kliefoth/Walvoord botch-up mess.

A71 · Sep 6, 2018

BABerean2 said:
We are looking forward to having you give us the "DaDad translation" of Daniel chapter 9.

Bring it out here and let us take a look at it...

.

I fear it will be a new twist on the dodactic laity

A71 · Sep 6, 2018

Time of the end.

Not end of time.

You have turned scripture on its head

DavidPT said:
Daniel 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

This applies to the following for one.

Daniel 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

Where this verse is meaning the following.

Daniel 11:31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

And where this verse is meaning the following.

Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Yet it seems to me that you are arguing that the 70th week has already been fulfilled? How do you figure that if the words in Daniel 9:27 are of the words that are to be shut up, even to the time of the end?

BABerean2 · Sep 6, 2018

DaDad said:
You've made your choice. Good Job.

You have chosen Walvoord, who was a professor of modern Dispensational Theology at Dallas Theological Seminary.

He is one of those who has attempted to ignore the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in Hebrews 12:22-24, and 2 Corinthians 3:6-8.

His is a doctrine of ignorance.

The New Covenant: Bob George

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Seville90210 · Sep 6, 2018

BABerean2 said:
He is one of those who has attempted to ignore the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century

False teaching or just plain ole ignorance? You need to read the bible carefully. Here let me help you since you have problems digesting the things you read.

Jeremiah 31:31-34 King James Version (KJV)
31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

1) Who in verse 32 made a covenant with the Israelites after having lead them out of Egypt?

2) Who lead the Israelites out of Egypt mentioned in verse 32? Where in the bible does it say Jesus lead the Israelites out of Egypt?

3) in verse 32, He claims to be their Husband. Who is the Husband of Israel? Where in the bible did Jesus ever claim to be the bridegroom of Israel?

4) In verse 33, He claims to be their God. Who always claims to be the God of Israel throughout the bible? Where in the bible did Jesus ever claimed to be God? Who did Jesus claim to be in John 4:26, God or the Messiah?

John 4:25-26 New King James Version (NKJV)
25 The woman said to Him, “I know that Messiah is coming” (who is called Christ). “When He comes, He will tell us all things.”

26 Jesus said to her, “I who speak to you am He.”

5) In verse 34, it said they will ALL know Him. If this was fulfilled by Jesus at the first coming, why did they nailed Him to the cross if they ALL knew He was their Messiah and the Son of God?

Knowing Jesus is the Christ, are you planning to crucify Him too when He returns?

Do you know how badly you embarrass yourself each time you post this scripture claiming it fulfilled in the first century when we all (except you) can see this prophecy will be fulfill at a time when the entire city of Jerusalem will be rebuild and never destroy again.

Jeremiah 31:38-40 King James Version (KJV)
38 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that the city shall be built to the Lord from the tower of Hananeel unto the gate of the corner.

39 And the measuring line shall yet go forth over against it upon the hill Gareb, and shall compass about to Goath.

40 And the whole valley of the dead bodies, and of the ashes, and all the fields unto the brook of Kidron, unto the corner of the horse gate toward the east, shall be holy unto the Lord; it shall not be plucked up, nor thrown down any more for ever.

BABerean2 · Sep 6, 2018

Seville90210 said:
False teaching or just plain ole ignorance? You need to read the bible carefully. Here let me help you since you have problems digesting the things you read.

Jeremiah 31:31-34 King James Version (KJV)
31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

1) Who in verse 32 made a covenant with the Israelites after having lead them out of Egypt?

2) Who lead the Israelites out of Egypt mentioned in verse 32? Where in the bible does it say Jesus lead the Israelites out of Egypt?

3) in verse 32, He claims to be their Husband. Who is the Husband of Israel? Where in the bible did Jesus ever claim to be the bridegroom of Israel?

4) In verse 33, He claims to be their God. Who always claims to be the God of Israel throughout the bible? Where in the bible did Jesus ever claimed to be God? Who did Jesus claim to be in John 4:26, God or the Messiah?

John 4:25-26 New King James Version (NKJV)
25 The woman said to Him, “I know that Messiah is coming” (who is called Christ). “When He comes, He will tell us all things.”

26 Jesus said to her, “I who speak to you am He.”

5) In verse 34, it said they will ALL know Him. If this was fulfilled by Jesus at the first coming, why did they nailed Him to the cross if they ALL knew He was their Messiah and the Son of God?

Knowing Jesus is the Christ, are you planning to crucify Him too when He returns?

Do you know how badly you embarrass yourself each time you post this scripture claiming it fulfilled in the first century when we all (except you) can see this prophecy will be fulfill at a time when the entire city of Jerusalem will be rebuild and never destroy again.

Jeremiah 31:38-40 King James Version (KJV)
38 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that the city shall be built to the Lord from the tower of Hananeel unto the gate of the corner.

39 And the measuring line shall yet go forth over against it upon the hill Gareb, and shall compass about to Goath.

40 And the whole valley of the dead bodies, and of the ashes, and all the fields unto the brook of Kidron, unto the corner of the horse gate toward the east, shall be holy unto the Lord; it shall not be plucked up, nor thrown down any more for ever.

It should be embarrassing to claim that Jesus is not God.

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Joh 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

The embarrassment would come when others see you attempting to ignore Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and Hebrews 12:22-24, and 2 Corinthians 3:6-8.

Jer_31:31 "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah—

Mat_26:28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Mar_14:24 And He said to them, "This is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many.

Luk_22:20 Likewise He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you.

1Co_11:25 In the same manner He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood. This do, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me."

2Co_3:6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

Heb_8:8 Because finding fault with them, He says: "BEHOLD, THE DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH—

Heb_8:13 In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Heb_9:15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.

Heb_12:24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.

The New Covenant: Bob George

.

DaDad · Sep 6, 2018

jgr said:
I'm glad you agree that Daniel 10 contains the masculine form.

I was advised otherwise, but will gladly accept your well considered council.

jgr said:
And in fact, the Hebrew word "šā·ḇu·‘îm" occurs only four times in the entire OT, all of them in Daniel 9 and 10, and all of them masculine.

The word does not appear as feminine anywhere [ELSE] in the OT.

Excellent.

So the Feminine text is CONCISE (i.e., 70 sevens = 490); and the Masculine text is INCONCISE (i.e., 70 sevens ≠ 490). But can we determine exactly what the seventy sevens DO equal?

To do this we revert to the original guidance:

9:2 in the first year of his reign, I, Daniel, perceived in the books the number of years which, according to the word of the Lord to Jeremiah the prophet, must pass before the end of the desolations of Jerusalem, namely, seventy years.

1. First Clue: As highlighted, the original guidance says "years". -- (We'll get back to this)
2. Second Clue: The word "books" is not the simple "shama", typical of reading a newspaper. It's the ~Solomon Wisdom~ "biyn". The difference is best presented n 1 Kings 3 where Solomon asked GOD for shama, and GOD said HE would grant him what he asked for, and give him such biyn that no man before him or no man after him shall have such biyn.

If shama would suggest simply reading the 25th Chapter of Jeremiah, then biyn should suggest that there is a much greater (i.e., ~Solomon~) discernment "in the books".

Regarding what we're looking for "in the books", Walvoord turned to Young to address the phrase "the going forth of the word":

“[Per Young] This phrase has reference to the issuance of the word, not from a Persian ruler but from God. Young goes on to point out that the expression the commandment, which he insists is better translated “a word” (Heb. Dābār; cf. 2Ch 30:5) is also found is Daniel 9:23 for a word from God.”

John Wolvoord, Daniel, The Key to Prophetic Revelation, Moody Press, Chicago, 1971, p. 224

So the question is:

Where in Scripture can we find the "going forth of the word to rebuild Jerusalem"?

Thanks,
DaDad

DaDad · Sep 6, 2018

BABerean2 said:
You have chosen Walvoord, who was a professor of modern Dispensational Theology at Dallas Theological Seminary. ...

You presume too much.

However, per Post #279, you've chosen to ignore EXACTLY what "jgr" has acknowledged:

“... as Young points out, the word ‘sevens’ is in the masculine plural instead of the usual feminine plural. No clear explanation is given except that Young feels ‘it was for the deliberate purpose of calling attention to the fact that the word “sevens” is employed in an unusual sense.’”

“...Young finally concludes after some discussion that Keil and Kliefoth are correct when they hold that the word ‘sevens’ does not necessarily mean year-weeks, but an intentionally indefinite designation of a period of time measured by the number seven, which chronological duration must be determined on other grounds.”

John Wolvoord, Daniel, The Key to Prophetic Revelation, Moody Press, Chicago, 1971, p. 217-218

Good Job.
DaDad

BABerean2 · Sep 6, 2018

DaDad said:
You presume too much.

However, per Post #279, you've chosen to ignore EXACTLY what "jgr" has acknowledged:

“... as Young points out, the word ‘sevens’ is in the masculine plural instead of the usual feminine plural. No clear explanation is given except that Young feels ‘it was for the deliberate purpose of calling attention to the fact that the word “sevens” is employed in an unusual sense.’”

“...Young finally concludes after some discussion that Keil and Kliefoth are correct when they hold that the word ‘sevens’ does not necessarily mean year-weeks, but an intentionally indefinite designation of a period of time measured by the number seven, which chronological duration must be determined on other grounds.”

John Wolvoord, Daniel, The Key to Prophetic Revelation, Moody Press, Chicago, 1971, p. 217-218

Good Job.
DaDad

Based on your interpretation there is no timeline of the Messiah's arrival in Daniel chapter 9.

Does it have anything to do with the rebuilding of the city and the temple?

Do you think we should ignore the fulfillment of Daniel 9:24 in Hebrews 10:16-18, and Acts of the Apostles 10:38?

Does it have anything to do with the Messiah's arrival?

Do you think Jesus was confused in the passage below when He stated they should have known the time of His visitation?

Luk 19:41 And when he was come near, he beheld the city, and wept over it,
Luk 19:42 Saying, If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes.
Luk 19:43 For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side,
Luk 19:44 And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation.

.

iamlamad · Sep 6, 2018

Davy said:
There really should not be any confusion about the Daniel 9 70 weeks prophecy events. They were clearly given, and even an orthodox Jew who started 'Jews For Jesus' converted to Jesus because of rightly understanding the Daniel prophecy which revealed the timing of Messiah's 1st coming and death.

For those interested, here is the actual Scripture evidence that the final 70th week is still yet to come to pass.

Dan 9:25
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
KJV

1. The first period is the 'seven sevens' (as "seven weeks" in the KJV). With each week equaling a period of seven years, that totals out to 49 years. So the first period is 49 years, from the command to restore and build unto 404 B.C. that marked the completion and dedication of the 2nd temple. The command to restore and rebuild was given in the 20th year of Artaxerxes in 454 B.C. (means 'the great king', an appeliative like Pharaoh, Czar, etc.). Thus the first period was from 454 B.C. to 404 B.C., or 49 years.

Dan 9:26
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
KJV

2. The second period given is the "threescore and two weeks" (62 weeks or 434 years). This period followed on the first period that ended on 404 B.C. So from the completion and dedication of the 2nd temple to the time of Messiah at the cross was to be 62 weeks, or 434 years, and from the command to restore in 454 B.C. to 404 B.C. added is 483 years. So from 454 B.C. plus 483 years comes to 29 A.D. when Jesus was on the cross, and thus "cut off" per Dan.9:26. That ended 69 weeks at 29 A.D., the year of the cross.

The people of the prince that shall come was the Roman general Titus who's army destroyed Jerusalem and the temple in 70 A.D.

The end that thereof shall be with a flood, etc., is about the very end of this world, still in our near future. That prince as Titus only served as a blueprint for the coming final Antichrist.

Dan 9:27
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
KJV

Per English grammar, we are required to go back to the 26th verse and pick up the subject about that "he". It is about that "prince" idea in verse 26, but not in the same role this next time, i.e., the coming Antichrist for the end is not going to destroy Jerusalem and the sanctuary, he instead is going to support building of a new temple, and starting up the old covenant sacrifices again.

3. The third and last period is "one week", the final 70th week, and is about the very end of this world. That "one week" is divided by that false one coming to end sacrifices in the middle of the "one week" (7 years). More info on what he will do is given as the "vile person" in Daniel 11.

Dan 11:21-24
21 And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries.
22 And with the arms of a flood shall they be overflown from before him, and shall be broken; yea, also the prince of the covenant.
23 And after the league made with him he shall work deceitfully: for he shall come up, and shall become strong with a small people.
KJV

That "league" is the covenant of Dan.9:27. It will involve the re-institution of sacrifices in Jerusalem at the end, with a new temple, requirements under the old covenant, called the "holy covenant" in Daniel 11.

Dan 11:30-31
30 For the ships of Chittim shall come against him: therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant: so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant.

31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.
KJV

The time will come when that "vile person" (Antichrist) will conspire with those who forsake the "holy covenant", and arms on his part will end the sacrifices and instead place the abomination idol that makes the sanctuary spiritually desolate. That is the "abomination of desolation" our Lord Jesus warned us about in Matthew 24 and Mark 13. It is the idol image of the beast of Revelation 13.

In 170 B.C., Antiochus IV took Jerusalem, went into the temple and sacrificed swine upon the altar, and spread its broth around inside the temple. Then he setup an idol to Zeus in false worship for all to bow to. But that was in 170 B.C., so Antiochus IV only served as an example of the final Antichrist at the end of this world. Yet there's the example for the end, the 70th week which is still pending.

I agree with most of this post. Dan. 11:30-31 are specifically about Antiochus Epiphanes though.

jgr · Sep 6, 2018

DaDad said:
So the Feminine text is CONCISE

Since all of the instances in Daniel 9 and 10 are masculine, what "Feminine text" are you referring to?

mkgal1 · Sep 6, 2018

Seville90210 said:
False teaching or just plain ole ignorance? You need to read the bible carefully. Here let me help you since you have problems digesting the things you read.

Jeremiah 31:31-34 King James Version (KJV)
31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

1) Who in verse 32 made a covenant with the Israelites after having lead them out of Egypt?

2) Who lead the Israelites out of Egypt mentioned in verse 32? Where in the bible does it say Jesus lead the Israelites out of Egypt?

3) in verse 32, He claims to be their Husband. Who is the Husband of Israel? Where in the bible did Jesus ever claim to be the bridegroom of Israel?

4) In verse 33, He claims to be their God. Who always claims to be the God of Israel throughout the bible? Where in the bible did Jesus ever claimed to be God? Who did Jesus claim to be in John 4:26, God or the Messiah?

John 4:25-26 New King James Version (NKJV)
25 The woman said to Him, “I know that Messiah is coming” (who is called Christ). “When He comes, He will tell us all things.”

26 Jesus said to her, “I who speak to you am He.”

5) In verse 34, it said they will ALL know Him. If this was fulfilled by Jesus at the first coming, why did they nailed Him to the cross if they ALL knew He was their Messiah and the Son of God?

Knowing Jesus is the Christ, are you planning to crucify Him too when He returns?

Do you know how badly you embarrass yourself each time you post this scripture claiming it fulfilled in the first century when we all (except you) can see this prophecy will be fulfill at a time when the entire city of Jerusalem will be rebuild and never destroy again.

Jeremiah 31:38-40 King James Version (KJV)
38 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that the city shall be built to the Lord from the tower of Hananeel unto the gate of the corner.

39 And the measuring line shall yet go forth over against it upon the hill Gareb, and shall compass about to Goath.

40 And the whole valley of the dead bodies, and of the ashes, and all the fields unto the brook of Kidron, unto the corner of the horse gate toward the east, shall be holy unto the Lord; it shall not be plucked up, nor thrown down any more for ever.

So.....by quoting all this above....ISTM that you're denying most of the point made in the NT (the whole Bible, actually, since the OT points to the meaning of what Jesus did while on this earth and how the apostles responded by taking that gospel out to "all the world"). Paul said he and his co-workers in the gospel were “ministers of the new covenant,” which he likened to “the ministry of the Spirit” and “the ministry of righteousness.”

Just to clarify....you're saying the fulfillment of this promise is still off in the future (our future)?

Jeremiah, a prophet of Judah before and during the Babylonian exile (586 – 538 BC), delivered a key promise to the house of Israel and the house of Judah, a promise of coming days when God would establish a new covenant:

“Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the Lord. But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more” (Jeremiah 31:31-34).
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(Eph. 2:11-22):

11 Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called “the uncircumcision” by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands— 12 remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14 For He himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in His flesh the dividing wall of hostility 15 by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that He might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, 16 and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility. 17 And He came and preached peace to you who were far off and peace to those who were near. 18 For through Him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father. 19 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, 20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, 21 in whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord. 22 In Him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God by the Spirit.

DavidPT · Sep 6, 2018

A71 said:
Time of the end.

Not end of time.

You have turned scripture on its head

Where did I say in that post anything about the end of time? My position is this----the time of the end leads to the end of time. A big difference then. This is why any interpretations that seen Antiochus iv fitting the texts, and that the context involves the time of the end, those interpretations can't be correct since nothing in AE4's day led to the end of time. You know how I know? It's 2018, thus way beyond the days of AE4, and the end of time still hasn't arrived as of yet.

mkgal1 · Sep 6, 2018

DavidPT said:
days of AE4

???

ETA: Oh...you mean "Antiochus Epiphanes" (A4E) I think.

mkgal1 · Sep 6, 2018

DavidPT said:
nothing in AE4's day led to the end of time

That's why it's been emphasized that it's meant "time of the end" - but you keep reversing that (it WAS the end of the Jerusalem with a Jewish temple and a veiled holy of holies that was known prior to 70 A.D.).....but that wasn't in Antiochus Epiphanies' day.

DavidPT · Sep 6, 2018

mkgal1 said:
That's why it's been emphasized that it's meant "time of the end" - but you keep reversing that (it WAS the end of the Jerusalem with a Jewish temple and a veiled holy of holies that was known prior to 70 A.D.).....but that wasn't in Antiochus Epiphanies' day.

Daniel 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end : many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

Daniel 12:9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end .

Daniel 8:17 So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end shall be the vision.

Daniel 8:19 And he said, Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in the last end of the indignation: for at the time appointed the end shall be .

Daniel 11:27 And both these kings' hearts shall be to do mischief, and they shall speak lies at one table; but it shall not prosper: for yet the end shall be at the time appointed .

Daniel 11:35 And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.

Daniel 11:40 And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him: and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over.

The following is what is at the very end of all of the above verses---the literal end of time in this present age, that being described as 'the end' and 'the end of the days'.

Daniel 12:13 But go thou thy way till the end be : for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.

These aren't actually all connected though, right? These are just coincidences, and nothing more, right?

When Scripture interprets Scripture, it oftentimes involves various passages from various places in the Bible. It therefore is incorrect to conclude these verses in Daniel 8 and 11 above do not involve the verses in Daniel 12 above.

DavidPT · Sep 6, 2018

mkgal1 said:
???

ETA: Oh...you mean "Antiochus Epiphanes" (A4E) I think.

Yes, that's who I was referring to. A4E, AE4---or whatever the correct abbreviation might be.

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